Transcript
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse thorn
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. This week's episode recorded live in Durham, North Carolina at the Carolina Theatre.
john hodgman
And this is your judge, John Hodgman. This is also our last episode of the year! We hope you have a very happy New Year. Thank you for listening. We'll be back in 2020 to bring you more justice.
jesse
Let's go to the stage at the Carolina Theatre.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
Durham, you've come to us desperate for justice! And we're here at the Carolina Theatre to deliver it! [Crowd cheers and applauds.] Friends, let's bring out our first set of litigants! Please welcome to the stage: Grant and Pastor Ervin! [More cheering and applause.] Tonight's case: "Son of a Preacher Ban." Grant files suit against his father, Pastor Ervin. Pastor Ervin regularly incorporates stories from his own life into his sermons, including stories about his children. [Light audience laughter.] Greg grew up hearing his father's Sunday sermons which oftentimes included stories about Greg. Greg would like for his father to stop talking about him in his sermons. [More laughter.] Paster Ervin feels he has the right to share stories about his family. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise—metaphorically—as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference. [More cheering and applause.]
john
Podcasting... is awful. [Light audience laughter.] It's awful. It's painful. It's frightening. Makes you doubt yourself. Judge... yourself! Distance yourself from other people in your life. Makes you selfish. Makes you... creepy. [More laughter.] Makes you obsessed with your hair! Makes you cruel. Makes you say and do things you never thought you would do. It's all any of us want! Podcasting. And it's hell when we get there. So no wonder it's something we don't want to do on our own. I was told that if we were born with podcasting, then life is about choosing the right place to put it. People talk about that a lot. It feeling right. When it feels right, it's easy! But I'm not sure that's true. Takes strength to know what's right. And podcasting isn't something that weak people do. [More laughter.] Being a podcaster takes a hell of a lot of hope. I think that's what they mean when they say you find somebody that you podcast with... it feels like hope. [More laughter.] Bailiff Jesse Thorn, please swear them in.
jesse
Grant, Pastor Ervin, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth... [Anticipatory audience laughter.] ...and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?
grant
I do.
pastor ervin
I do.
jesse
Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, [stifling laughter] despite the fact that he consorts with members of the Church of Satan? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
john
It's true. It's true.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] It's true.
crosstalk
John: It's true. Jesse: He's friends with them! They're nice!
john
It's true.
pastor ervin
Yes.
jesse
Inter-faith, it's called.
pastor ervin
Sure. [Audience laughter.]
john
Let the record show the pastor said "Sure." [Jesse and the audience laugh.]
jesse
Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.
john
[Laughs.] First of all, Grant and Pastor Ervin, you may be seated. [Audience laughter.] It's true that I thought for the cultural reference that I would read the blurb that my first book, The Areas of My Expertise, was given by Peter H. Gilmore, High Magus of the Church of Satan. Which was "Thank you for bringing more laughter into this world." [John and the audience laugh.] They're fun. Not actual devil-worshippers, Pastor Ervin, it's more of an art project. Don't worry. [More audience laughter.] But for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom? Grant, you're young.
jesse
You're cosplaying as Adam Scott on Parks and Rec. [John and the audience laugh.]
grant
I'll—I'll just say, uh... Reverend Jesse James autobiographyyy, maybe? Or...
john
Reverend... Jesse James. [Audience laughter.]
crosstalk
Jesse: Autobiography. John: Autobiography.
john
Those are words. Sure!
jesse
John— [Audience laughter.] So Jesse James is a famous outlaw.
john
Yeah. [More laughter.]
jesse
Um...
john
Who then became ordained in the Universal Church of Life when his friends asked him to marry them? [More laughter from audience and one of the litigants.] He's like, "Ugh, I gotta go to the Internet and do this thing!"
jesse
Can I tell you an honest fact?
john
Yeah!
jesse
My father and stepmother were married by a priest named Jesse James.
john
Really!
jesse
Yeah. That's a true story.
crosstalk
John: So that's who you were referencing, specifically, obviously, Grant. Grant: That's what I meant. Jesse: Yeah. Grant: Yeah. [Audience laughter.]
jesse
Kind of an inside baseball thing, but I like the guess.
john
That's a—that's right. Very good. Alright.
jesse
Good research.
john
Pastor Ervin, do you have a guess? As to what piece of culture I referenced as I entered the courtroom?
pastor ervin
It sounded like a little bit like Gandhi.
john
Gandhi... and Jesse James. [Audience laughter.] That's... truly is a flip of the coin.
jesse
I guess Montezuma!
john
All guesses are wrong! [Audience laughter.]
jesse
[Stifling laughter] Was it Teddy Roosevelt? I'm just naming figures from history.
john
No. [Someone laughs.]
jesse
That's what they did! [Someone laughs.]
john
Fictional character. Did anyone get it?
audience member
Fleabag!
john
Fleabag is correct! [Audience cheering.] It's the priest's homily at the wedding in the second season of Fleabag. Check it out.
jesse
Hot priest?
john
Hot priest.
jesse
Yeah.
john
That's right. Hot priest. Sorry, I was talking to them for a while. Let's talk to you. [Laughs.]
grant
I—I did mean Jesse Jackson. When I—just—
john
J—I—no, I understand. It's very—don't worry about it for a second.
grant
Okay. [Audience laughter.]
john
You have something in your hand. Is that evidence?
grant
Uh, no. But—it's just a gift.
john
Oh, really! [Interested shouts from the audience.]
grant
It's just some bribery.
john
A gift, you say! [Laughs.]
grant
Yeah. It's a—
john
Another gift! Maybe—
grant
It's a card game.
john
[Audibly disappointed/disgusted.] Oh. [Audience and Grant laugh.]
jesse
Classic!
john
[Sternly] We'll buzz-market your card game near the end!
grant
Alright. Thank you.
john
Ugh. [Laughter dies down.] So, alright. You bring this case, do you not, Grant?
grant
Yes.
john
And tell me what the—what is the—
jesse
Hold on. Grant, why don't you just bring an asthma inhaler?! [Scattered audience laughter.]
john
Actually, I could use one right about now. [Jesse and some audience members laugh.]
grant
Uh, I don't have a prescription for that, so I just couldn't really get ahold of it. But, uh—
john
I understand.
grant
You know, growing up, my dad would be at the pulpit from time to time.
john
Sure.
grant
He actually spent about 20 years as a children's minister.
john
Mm-hm.
grant
So he was my direct Sunday instructor for quite a while.
john
Sure.
grant
You know, he would bring up these stories... about my childhood, about my sisters' childhood, that were a little embarrassing. He's pretty good at what he does, so we would be at pretty big churches. And on Sunday morning if he would tell a fairly embarrassing story, there would be... maybe half as many people as there are in this room right now, like, hundreds of people.
john
Yeah.
grant
Listening about what I did when I was four years old, three years old.
john
Right. And that—and what sort of things would he tell that were so embarrassing? [Audience laughs.]
crosstalk
Grant: You know, I was a hand— Jesse: [Stifling laughter] We want as many examples as you can remember. [Audience and Grant or Paster Ervin laugh.]
grant
I was a handful as a kid, but he specifically told a story about me wanting some attention while he was on the phone. And I cut the phone line. Uh... [Audience laughter.]
john
And I presume he was on the phone... with God? [More laughter.]
pastor ervin
Yeah.
grant
Yes.
john
That was—[laughing] okay. [More laughter.] Pastor Ervin... what denomination are you a pastor in?
pastor ervin
United Methodist Church. [A few scattered cheers.]
john
Fantastic. How do you defend yourself against your son's accusations that you have been misusing his life in the sermons?
pastor ervin
I guess I usually just respond with, you know, "I'll give you five bucks, you know, for royalties." [John and some of the audience laugh.] Uh—[laughing] yeah. Just—
john
Have you ever—have you ever made good on that offer, sir?
pastor ervin
Probably not.
john
Ah, I see! Well.
pastor ervin
Yeah... Probably not.
john
Then there may be some damages to be awarded. [Some more audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
But you know, it's like these stories that I tell, though, they're stories that involve—you know, both of us.
john
Sure.
pastor ervin
You know, it's our father-son relationship, you know?
john
Yeah.
pastor ervin
I was on the phone with somebody and he wanted to talk to me, and I walked right by him coming home from—that's back when I was teaching school.
john
Right.
pastor ervin
And I kinda—just kinda switched hats, switched gears, and kinda ignored him.
john
Mm-hm.
pastor ervin
And so he reached his hand into one of those, uh, childproof locked drawers, pulled out a pair of scissors—
john
Yeah.
pastor ervin
—and cut the cord, and of course I did what—you know, we all did back then. You know, "Hello? Hello?"
john
[Laughing] Right. [Some audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
You know. And there's nobody there. So—and then I looked down, and he looks at me. He's about three years old at that point.
john
Right.
pastor ervin
And he goes "Are you gonna listen to me now?"
john
Ohhh. [Audience laughs.]
jesse
Whoa!
pastor ervin
And then I—I think I start to change some colors, you know, kinda like—you know, white to dark red. And then he takes off and goes run—uh, run down—he runs down the hall and he gets under his Barney bed.
john
Right.
pastor ervin
'Cause he's scared.
grant
So I was like, you know, 12, 15, 16, 17, and these stories were coming up.
jesse
Yeah.
john
Yeah, but this is—!
jesse
To clarify, John—'cause there are some kids here—later on, if you're interested romantically in another kid, uh, the best thing to do—this'll happen when you're 12, 15, 16—is just have your dad bring up your Barney bed. [John and the audience laugh.]
john
Or even—
grant
It's great, isn't it?
john
Even now, how old are you now?
grant
I'm 27.
john
You still have that Barney bed, Grant? [Pastor Ervin and some of the audience laugh.]
grant
No.
jesse
You still B-bedding it, baby? [He and Grant laugh.] He's like, "No, I got a race car now, man!" [Audience laughter.]
grant
Yeah.
john
In your father's defense, that's a pretty badass story. [Some audience laughter.] That's—I mean—you know, first of all, that took some skill to get into that childproof drawer.
grant
Mm-hm.
john
Get those scissors.
grant
Right.
john
That was a big move to cut the cord. I presume that when you're under your Barney bed, the demon speaks to you and tells you what to do? [Audience and some on-stage laughter.] In order to—and—and so—I mean, I think that's an incredible story. What was the context of the story in your sermon?
pastor ervin
Well, the context was I was drawing an analogy to how sometimes we don't wanna listen to God.
john
Right.
pastor ervin
How that we get so busy that we don't really wanna tune in and hear what he has to say. And so sometimes—
john
So you're saying your son is God.
pastor ervin
Nnno. [Audience laughter.] No, it was an analogy.
crosstalk
John: [Laughs.] Oh—oh, sorry. Pastor Ervin: Yeah. Right. You know. Yeah, actua—yeah. It—it was an analogy. Yeah! John: No, but you're—but yes! No, I think that that's right!
pastor ervin
You know, kinda part of the things that we've done and all the experiences that we've had, and so, you know, a good storyteller tries to draw on, you know, those personal things.
john
But—yeah, I mean, I think that that's—it's not merely just a heartwarming story, but it's a fairly arresting story about being mindful in life.
pastor ervin
Right.
john
To the things that are meaningful to you. Correct?
pastor ervin
Right! Right.
john
I thought that was—
pastor ervin
Yeah!
john
I think that's fair use. I don't think you owe him five bucks for that one. [Some audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
Well...
john
Grant, you have another complaint?
grant
Yeah.
john
What's another one that you felt bad about? [Some audience laughter.]
grant
Uh—well. [Someone laughs.] Yeah, so, that's one example, but he also a mentioned a story about—you know, when I needed to get a booster shot, and I got put into one of those harnesses. [Some audience laughter.] And he tried to kind of soothe me and say, uh, you know, "You're like a caterpillar. You'll be a butterfly." And then I shrieked "I don't want to be a butterfly." [More laughter.] That's in line with the material—
pastor ervin
Well, I was trying to get his mind off the blood getting drawn and—
john
Yeah, no, that's—!
grant
Right.
crosstalk
John: That's extremely touching! [Inaudible.] [Audience laughter.] Pastor Ervin: Right, I mean, he was three years old, and he had never had that kinda high fever thing, and—
john
Right.
pastor ervin
He's, you know, there, and they're putting this Velcro papoose thing all around him to hold him still.
john
Yeah.
pastor ervin
So they can draw the blood, and I thought, "Well, that'd be a great idea." You know, take his mind off it and—you know, "You're gonna be a butterfly!" and then he said, with just crocodile ears coming down his cheeks, "Daddy, I don't wanna be a butterfly!"
john
I don't—crocodile tears suggests insincerity. Do you think he was faking it?
pastor ervin
Oh, no.
john
Okay. Gotcha.
pastor ervin
No. No.
john
Why didn't you wanna be a butterfly, Grant? [Audience laughter.]
grant
I just wasn't ready yet.
john
Are you there now? Are you close? Are you there?
grant
Almost.
john
Almost there? Almost.
grant
When I turn 30, I think I'll—I'll be there.
john
Yeah.
jesse
Grant, you know what story my Aunt Gail likes to tell about me?
grant
What's that?
jesse
It's the time I went to her company picnic, and I disappeared for a little while. It was on an island near San Francisco called Angel Island. I disappeared for a little while, and I came back while everyone was getting their food.
grant
Hm.
jesse
And I looked up at her and I said at the top of my voice, "Aunt Gail! I pooped on the beach like a dog!" [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] The moral of the story is you can win these negotiations! [Laughs.]
john
So in the context, Pastor Ervin, of the sermon...
pastor ervin
Right.
john
This story symbolizes what? What were you illustrating in the story of—or were you just sort of bragging about what a great dad you are? [Grant laughs.]
pastor ervin
No, no, no, no, no! I—
john
'Cause I thought—
pastor ervin
No.
john
By the way, that's a very touching story.
pastor ervin
Well, thank you.
john
And when Grant tells it I'm like, "This dad's terrific!"
pastor ervin
Right.
john
And then thinking of you telling it at church, I'm like "This dad likes talking about what a good dad he is." [John and the audience laugh.] But I don't think it was about that.
pastor ervin
No.
john
What was the context?
pastor ervin
No. It's about, you know, the idea of new life. You know, that God loves us and God wants to bring us new life and give us an opportunity to... to be everything that he's created us to be! So that's kinda where the story fits. Kinda new creation.
john
I'm gonna give that one a B-plus.
pastor ervin
Okay. [Audience laughter.]
jesse
That's generous. God wants us to turn into butterflies by getting our blood drawn? Is that the message here? [Audience laughter.]
john
This is not a comment on your expression of faith.
pastor ervin
Right.
john
Which is A-plus.
pastor ervin
Right.
john
I am a purely agnostic non-religious person, but A-plus for expression of faith. Very touching. And then also I would say solid A for a fun story about your kid.
pastor ervin
Right.
john
But it feels a little—they feel shoehorned together.
pastor ervin
Yeah. [Audience laughter.]
john
Whereas cutting the telephone cord—"Are you listening to me now?" is like "Bwoah!" [Audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
You know what I mean? Like, I—
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
I feel healed by that. [Pastor Ervin laughs.] Do you know, like—that makes me wanna walk again. [Pastor Ervin laughs harder, audience also laughs.]
jesse
I don't think that's what the Methodists are up to, but... [Audience and Pastor Ervin laugh.]
john
Yeah. I—I apologize for... every joke that I make. [Some more audience laughter.] When did you start telling these stories? How old was Grant initially?
pastor ervin
Grant was probably about, you know, eight or nine.
john
Eight or nine.
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
Was he in the congregation?
crosstalk
Pastor Ervin: Uh, sometimes. John: Mm-hm. Pastor Ervin: Yeah, sometimes it was a— Grant: Every time, yeah. I mean— [Audience laughter.] Pastor Ervin: Well—[laughs].
grant
Between the ages of like, one and eighteen, I was in church.
john
Right.
grant
Like, every—every week.
john
Right.
grant
Yeah.
john
So, okay. [Stifling laughter] Were you not aware that he was there every week? [Audience and litigant laughter.]
pastor ervin
There were just different venues.
john
Yeah.
pastor ervin
You know, that we—we shared them, sometimes at camp. You know, great camp stories, and... I just found that, you know, kids really appreciated hearing about stories that they could relate to.
john
Sure.
pastor ervin
You know, times in their lives where things didn't work out good or they got in trouble, or stuff like that. And you know, Grant... Grant got in trouble a lot.
john
What—tell me more! [Audience laughter.] Tell me another story. This one doesn't have to be a metaphor for anything. [More audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
Okay. We had just moved to a church in Orlando, and we'd just been there a few months, and sometimes in between services I wouldn't have a total track of where my kids were. So I tried to keep an eye on 'em as much as I could, but I was talking to people, doing my pastor thing, and so he actually came up to my boss, the senior pastor, and actually kinda hit him in the family jewels. [Some light audience shock/laughter.] So...
jesse
Yeah...
pastor ervin
Yeah.
jesse
Cool.
pastor ervin
I think that's a kid-friendly term. So like I said, he just really gave us great material! You know? [Some audience laughter.]
john
Yeah. Is he an okay kid now, or is—do I have to watch myself?
pastor ervin
Oh, he's a great kid now.
john
Okay, yeah.
pastor ervin
Yeah.
grant
I'm employed. So that's good.
pastor ervin
Yes. [Audience laughter.]
john
You're making—tell us about your card game.
grant
Uh, that's something I do in my spare time.
john
Okay.
grant
I have a studio called Honeycomb Interactive.
john
Okay.
grant
But I also work full-time at a major video game company in the area.
john
You never yourself felt the call to service as your dad did.
grant
No.
john
No. When did you decide to become a pastor, if I may ask?
pastor ervin
When I was 12.
john
When you were 12 years old!
pastor ervin
Mm-hm! Yeah! Actually, my mom was a teacher.
john
Mm-hm.
pastor ervin
And I was, you know, for a while. And my dad was a fire chief.
john
Mm-hm.
pastor ervin
And so no, I—I have an uncle who's a pastor.
john
Alright.
pastor ervin
But I was really the first pastor, clergy in my immediate family. But when I started out in ministry, I—like Grant was saying, for the first 20 years I was involved in children's ministry. I was a children's pastor, so I would use lots of different object lessons and puppetry and different things like that, and that's kinda where Grant and I kinda first shared, you know, those hobbies—that were first hobbies.
john
Right.
pastor ervin
Before I went into the ministry full-time. And one of them was puppetry, and he was doing puppet characters like at the age of three!
john
Right.
pastor ervin
And he was memorizing scripts, and—and so storytelling was always kind of a part of our relationship, you know?
john
Mm-hm.
pastor ervin
We just love stories.
john
Right. And then you just started taking his stories and using them... [Audience laughter.]
crosstalk
Pastor Ervin: Uhhh, yeah! John: To spread the word.
pastor ervin
I—I guess! Yeah.
jesse
For your ooown spiritual gain. [Audience and on-stage laughter.]
john
Grant, did you ever express your displeasure with your father?
grant
Not before my mother did.
john
Oh, okay! What was her complaint?
grant
She said "Andy, it's embarrassing the children. [Laughing] Don't do it." [Audience laughter.]
john
That would be you, Pastor Ervin?
pastor ervin
Right.
grant
Yeah.
pastor ervin
She tried to advocate—
john
She's allowed to call you something other than Pastor—
pastor ervin
Right.
john
—unlike me. Right, I got it.
pastor ervin
Right. [Audience laughter.]
john
We're not—okay, I got it. We're not on that level. I got it.
pastor ervin
Right.
john
We'll get there.
pastor ervin
Right.
john
Okay! [Audience laughter.] Were you embarrassed? Did you say something to your mom?
grant
Uh, yeah. I think we eventually—me and my sisters—'cause we're all kinda three years apart.
john
Okay.
grant
So we all kind of grew up with this experience.
john
And your sisters are also grist for the story mill?
grant
Not as much as me.
john
And you sent in some evidence, right? Some photos of the family?
grant
Some photos, yeah.
john
Mm-hm. Who sent it in? Was it—would it be you, Grant?
grant
My mother picked them out.
john
Okay.
grant
And I kinda sent them in.
john
Let's have a look at these photos. They'll all be available on the Judge John Hodgman page at MaximumFun.org and our— [Positive crowd noises.] Wow! This is adorable. Also on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman. [Audience and Grant laugh.]
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
So here's Pastor Ervin and Grant, young Grant, sporting not one but two gold medallions; thank you for being gold. [Audience laughter.]
grant
Yes.
john
What'd you get those awards in?
grant
Probably Bible quizzing. [Someone snorts.] I would—[laughing] I'd guess. [Audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
And some puppetry!
grant
And—[laughing] yeah.
john
Double gold. One gold in Bible quizzing, one gold in puppetry. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Grant, what is this evidence you sent in to represent?
grant
Proof that I was a child, and that he was a dad. Or is a dad.
john
Yeah. [Pastor Ervin and audience laugh.]
grant
You know.
pastor ervin
The stories are true. [Litigants and audience laugh.]
john
Yes, I recognize you as those people at an—at a—earlier time.
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
Next piece of evidence, please? Here is a family portrait. These—
pastor ervin
Right.
grant
Yeah.
john
These are the whole family, including—
pastor ervin
Right. The Ervin Five.
john
—your wife/Grant's mom, plus the two sisters, right?
pastor ervin
Yep.
john
And do the sisters ever figure into the sermons, or did Grant get special treatment?
pastor ervin
Sometimes. Yeah.
john
But less often? Grant was the—
pastor ervin
Probably Grant.
john
Right, 'cause he was—
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
—a terror. [Litigants and audience laugh.]
jesse
Is this a picture of the five of you on your way to audition for a local production of Fosse? [Audience laughs.]
pastor ervin
Yeah. No, it was a—
grant
We were—
pastor ervin
[Stifling laughter] It was a church directory photo, actually.
john
Right.
grant
We're dressed as beatniks. [Jesse laughs.]
pastor ervin
My wife said we're all wearing one color.
john
I hate to say this, 'cause it already made everyone uncomfortable, but there's a real Church of Satan vibe in this. [Audience, Jesse, and one or both litigants laugh.]
pastor ervin
[Bemused] Okay...
john
Just—it's a striking look.
pastor ervin
Alright...
john
It's just—it's just with the all black... Yeah. [More audience laughter.] Next slide, please. Yeah, this is—this is what I'm talking about! Loving family.
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
Next to some—a body of water. And this is a vacation?
grant
Yeah. We're all happy here, uh, 'cause someone's missing in the, uh—
john
Ohhh!
grant
—-[laughing] picture. [Mixed laughter and shock from the audience.]
crosstalk
John: Right in the—right in the metaphorical family jewels! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Pastor Ervin: I was taking the picture!
grant
That's true.
john
He was taking the picture.
grant
He was there.
john
[Laughs.] "When I was not there, I was the one taking the picture." Right? That— [John, the audience, Jesse, and one or both litigants laugh.] And this is to represent...? This is meant to—?
grant
Proof of family.
john
Yeah, this is—[stifling laughter] proof of fam—proof of fam— [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] —proof of family life. Well, they're adorable photos.
grant
Thank you.
john
Did you ever think to—at a certain point—to ask Grant's permission to continue to use these stories? [Pause.] [Someone in the audience laughs.]
pastor ervin
[Nonchalantly] No. [Audience laughs.]
john
Do you use them to this day?
pastor ervin
Yeah. [Audience and someone on stage laughs. Some of the audience switches gears to "ohhh" at something, and then the audience laughs again.] Well, you know, again, they're stories that kinda describe our relationship! I mean, we're both in the stories.
john
Sure!
pastor ervin
We both, you know, are involved. And—and—
crosstalk
John: No—no, I understand, but—but— Pastor Ervin: It kinda supports that—you know, kinda his origins and where he started from and like, all these things that kinda became part of his identity.
john
I understand, and I could definitely see—as a father myself—I could definitely see an argument that my children's lives and life stories... belong to me. They're my intellectual property. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] And I—and I've—[laughs].
pastor ervin
Right.
john
I've certainly made a bundle off them in my books. [Pastor Ervin laughs.] But I ask this—Grant has now expressed, first via his mother, now in person, in an open forum...
pastor ervin
Right.
john
...that this makes him uncomfortable! I mean Grant, are you asking me to rule that your father not tell these stories again?
grant
There's another wrinkle. Uh, because he is a published author. So it's—it covers vocal stories, but then also written word. I just want a full coverage... [Audience laughter.] Full protection.
john
Oh, I thought you were asking for a portion of his earnings.
grant
[Laughing] No, no! [Audience and Pastor Ervin laugh.] I—I understand raising a child is expensive, so I'm not looking for damages. [Scattered audience laughter.]
jesse
Grant, if you decide to seek damages... [One of the litigants laughs.] ...I got a few good negotiating techniques you might try. [Laughs.]
grant
Okay. [Grant and the audience laugh.]
john
The family jewels? [John, Jesse, and others laugh.]
jesse
Pooping on the beach like a dog!
john
[Laughing] Oh, right!
grant
Oh! [Audience and on-stage laughter.]
john
So you would like me to order your father to excise... [Someone stifles laughter.] ...all of the stories, all the Grant stories, in his sermon repertoire. And no longer write them down, either.
grant
Correct.
john
And I presume destroy all copies of his books to date? [Some audience laughter.]
jesse
How does he even work these childhood stories into his spy thrillers? [John, one of the litigants, and some of the audience laugh.]
pastor ervin
It's a secret. If I told you, I'd have to kill you.
john
Oh! [Some more audience laughter.] What—what kind of books are you writing?
pastor ervin
They're really books about, uh, working with kids.
john
Yeah.
pastor ervin
You know, in the church, and—
john
Yeah. Mm-hm.
pastor ervin
Cool stuff.
john
Now—now—those are strong demands. So I presume that they are underscored by strong and sincere feelings of discomfort with these stories being told. Now that Grant has expressed that, does that make you feel differently about telling the stories?
pastor ervin
I think they've—make me feel... more sensitive to... using stories that are gonna still put him in a very positive light.
john
Mm-hm.
pastor ervin
You know, I don't ever wanna say anything or do anything that would intentionally embarrass him or upset him, but I—it definitely makes me think more about, you know, being sensitive to... [Someone in the audience laughs.] ...to that.
john
Yeah.
pastor ervin
So...
john
Alright. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.
pastor ervin
Okay.
john
I'm going to go into my, uh, private Church of Satan chapel. [Some of the audience and one or both litigants laugh.] And I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.
jesse
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. [Cheering and applause.] Grant, how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now?
grant
You know, fantastic. Pretty much. [Some audience laughter.] It was a little—you know, I had to lose a little. 'Cause those stories did come out in the open air in front of... a lot of people. [A little more laughter.] Uh, but—
pastor ervin
Yeah, I was surprised you told the first one!
grant
Well, yeah, so it's—I think it was worth it. Overall.
jesse
...We're also gonna podcast this; did you know that? [Jesse, one or both litigants, and the audience laugh.]
grant
I did, yeah.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] I'm just saying don't run for Congress or whatever. [Audience and one of the litigants laugh.] Pastor Ervin...
pastor ervin
Yes.
jesse
How are you feeling about your chances?
pastor ervin
You know, I have... no really worries about it, you know? I think that John and I are both dads... you know, we both— [Light, scattered audience laughter.] —have been on some—both some interesting journeys, and I think he appreciates my son's creativity as much as I do.
jesse
Take a look at your son right now. [Light audience laughter.] I don't know if he has children. But he's already a dad. [Jesse, audience, and both litigants laugh.] The two of you are on even footing! [Pastor Ervin laughs.] Pastor Ervin... I don't know how Methodists feel about throwing Hail Mary passes. [Audience and Pastor Ervin laugh.] You might be in trouble here. [Some more audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
Hmm.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] And I think I've got a negotiating technique for ya. [Audience laughs.]
pastor ervin
[Laughing] Okay.
jesse
No, no, no, no, no, no, no! [Pastor Ervin laughs.] We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
The Judge John Hodgman podcast is of course supported every week by all of the members of Maximum Fun. We are also supported this week by the kind folks at Mozilla.
john
You can't see them... but they can see you! They know your age, your relationship status, your musical tastes, your political opinions! What am I talking about, Jesse? Spies?!
jesse
Online trackers! Online trackers know a ton about you, because they are everywhere online! Collecting your personal information and selling it for a profit without your consent! That is why Firefox blocks ten billion trackers for users every day, all the time, all over the web.
john
Automatically!
john
Firefox fights for you.
jesse
For you! [Mimicking an echo] For you, for you, for you...
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
You both seemed very confident, as I listened in to your... [Audience and John laugh.] ...assessment of your chances in the case. There is a little saying that we have... in the Church of Satan. [Audience and one of the litigants laugh.] "Pride goeth before the fall." [More audience laughter.] No, no, no, the Church of Satan doesn't say that! They say "Do whatever you want." [Laughs.] [Audience and onstage laughter. Some audience members cheer.] "Let God sort it out." [Laughs.] [More laughter from audience and one or both litigants.] I guess. I don't know. [Laughs.] I'm not a member of the Church of Satan. I just—that's— [More audience laughter.] Neither are any of the members of this family. I alluded to the fact that I am also a storyteller. Just for money. [More audience laughter. John also laughs.] No larger purpose.
jesse
[Chiding] John!
john
Whatsoever. [Laughs.]
jesse
John... money and vanity.
john
That's right! [John, audience, and one or both litigants laugh.] Money, vanity, pride, envy, sloth. [Stifles laughter.] All those things. [More audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
That's why I'm out here slinging the stories. [Some of the audience and one or both litigants laugh.] And for a long time, I chose not to tell stories about my children. Either directly or in indirect, fictional ways. And I refused to even name them in my early written work. In part because I respected their privacy. In part because telling stories about children, especially when they are young—and especially, I would say, in comedy—can verge on hackiness very quickly.
pastor ervin
Mm.
john
'Cause kids are kind of dumb, and they say hilarious things. [John and the audience laugh.] They are basically material generators. Do you know what I mean? [More audience laughter.]
pastor ervin
Mm-hm.
john
"My kid's brain hasn't grown to full adulthood yet, and so they said a dumb thing, ha-ha-ha." [Some more laughter.] But in a very real way because I did not want to use them for material. And then I moved into a different phase of my storytelling, when instead of telling very arch, absurdist, humorous... "ha-ha jokes," I started telling true stories from my life, as you tell true stories from yours. And the time came, both I felt to be open about my journey through fatherhood and that that might be helpful to other people, and so I would talk about my children and tell stories about things that we experienced together, without naming them, but—you know, they don't need me to get famous. Or they shouldn't. [Laughs.] [Audience laughter.] The point is I'm the famous one, not them. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] I'm not here to make them famous. [Laughs.] [Some more audience and on-stage laughter.] And I also started telling stories about their lives... 'cause I was out of material, and I had to. [More audience laughter.] All—[laughs] all of my concerns about hackiness went into the garbage, 'cause like, I gotta fill up time. [Some more laughter.] One question I didn't ask, and should have—honest answer—
pastor ervin
Mm.
john
How big a part of your "act"—in comedy terms—is Grant a part of? Settle on a percentage individually. Like... 50% of your sermons have a Grant story in them? 25%? 5%? 90%? Settle on something in your mind.
pastor ervin
Okay.
john
You settle on something in your mind.
pastor ervin
Okay.
john
And after I say "three," you both say what you came up with. One, two, three.
pastor ervin
15%.
grant
I would land on 15 as well. Yeah.
john
You just waited until your daddy talked first! [Audience and Paster Ervin laugh.] You're supposed to be a rule-breaker! [More laughter.] So... it is a choice, every time. Especially as your children grow up, and they become whole human beings. Who have feelings, and reputations, of their own! Who are known in their community, and have a right to a measure of privacy. "Is this story worth it? Is this story going to communicate something to someone else and really help them, such that it is worth violating the privacy of my child without their permission? Or is it just... sorta funny?" [Pause.] One of them I gave a B-plus. Solid B, B-plus. In terms of its engagement with what you were trying to say to your congregation. The other one—cutting the phone cord? It was such a powerful illustration of what you were trying to talk about. You can tell that one for the rest of your life. [Audience, John, and one or both litigants laugh.] I mean, here's the thing. I think that you should take very seriously the fact that Grant is made uncomfortable. That he has asked you to stop. And if Grant had not goaded you into telling the story about him punching someone in the nuts... [Audience laughs, someone stifles laughter.] ...I might take him seriously! I might have ruled in his favor completely! [Audience laughs, John stifles laughter.] But clearly— [The litigants laugh.] —your lives and your stories are entwined! There are some stories that you wanna have out there! Such as you... hurting your dad's... pastor boss. [More audience and on-stage laughter.] Shall be enshrined forever in podcast history. [Some more audience laughter.]
john
Your lives are entwined. And... Grant, I—I can't in good conscience put a injunction on your dad's right to remember you as you were when you were younger... just cutting and punching and running and hiding— [Audience, litigants, and John laugh.] —and screaming and crying, and non-butterflying. [More laughter.] You know.
jesse
And wearing that one hat from that picture. [Laughs.]
john
Yeah. [One or both litigants and the audience laugh.]
grant
2009 was a heady time. It was—
john
I know. That's right. [Some more audience laughter. Someone claps.] These are stories that are not merely, uh, of service to his congregation, when used correctly. But also of service to him, I would think, to remember what it was like to be a parent of a younger child. 'Cause you are disappearing before his eyes. You have grown into a handsome... childless young dad. [John, audience, and someone else laughs.] Wearing a shawl collar sweater. [More audience laughter.] So I am not going to find in your favor, Grant. I am going to instead grant your dad, Pastor Ervin, the right to continue to tell these stories, on two conditions. One is: you need to think very carefully, now that your son is an adult and you know how he feels, whether it's worth it. There are times when parents say—[laughs] and parents have said to me, "I know it's wrong, but I'm doing it anyway." [John and the audience laugh.] If he does not actively grant your permission, and you use the story anyway, you need to be able to justify it in the power of the storytelling.
pastor ervin
Hm.
john
Such that you can turn to your son and say "I know it's wrong, but I'm doing it anyway." [Audience laughter.] And... that—I want you to think carefully before you use those stories.
pastor ervin
Mm.
john
And I don't think that butter—that butterfly story is a great dinner table story!
pastor ervin
Yeah.
john
When it is totally appropriate to embarrass your son. [Someone stifles laughter, audience laughs.]
pastor ervin
Right.
john
You know, then it's not embarrassing. It's just a story about what a great dad you are. You know? That "cutting the phone cord," boy oh boy... [One of the litigants and the audience laugh.] Phew. [Smooch.] Chef kiss. [Audience and one or more people on stage laugh.] The other caveat—[stifling laughter] or commandment, if I may.
pastor ervin
Hm. [Audience and multiple people on stage laugh.]
john
Is atonement! Pride goeth before the fall.
pastor ervin
Hm.
john
You sat up there, you're like, "I don't care what he thinks! I'm gonna keep telling these stories!" I would like you to turn to your son and say, in your own words, you care what he thinks and you're sorry that you hurt his feelings. [Beat.] But into the microphone. And it's really hard— [Audience and John laugh.]
pastor ervin
Grant, I really do care about you. And I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. ["Awww"ing and applause from the audience.]
john
And now—now say "But I'm doing it anyway." [John, the audience, and one of the litigants laugh.]
pastor ervin
But I'm doing it anyway.
john
Alright. Very good! [Pastor Ervin and the audience laugh.] This is the sound of a gavel! [Five live gavel thuds. Audience is cheering and applauding.]
jesse
Grant and Pastor Ervin, thank you!
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break. Let's get into chambers, talk about what we've got upcoming.
john
Yeah, Jesse. While this is our last podcast episode of the year 2019, it's not necessarily your last chance to hear my voice before year's end. I mean, you might live with me! That might be—you might run into me on the street. Or... if you live in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, you might come see me and your old friend, summertime fun time guest Bailiff Monte Belmonte. We're putting on a holiday spectacle at the Shea Theatre in Turners Falls, Massachusetts, my old stomping grounds, with special musical guest Aaron McCune! Lots of comedy, storytelling, chats from us. I might take some Snap Justice questions from the audience. And Odyssey Books will be selling copies of Medallion Status there, which I can sign for you if you want. It's gonna be a good old fun time, with a singalong. Why don't you check it out if you don't mind? At Bit.ly/HODGMONTE. Capital H-O-D-G-M-O-N-T-E. That's all capital letters, all one word. And then I'll be taking a rest, and I hope you will be doing the same, as New Year's comes along and then goes away. And then, Jesse Thorn, you and I are hitting the road again!
jesse
Yeah! We're headed to Brooklyn, New York on January 13th at the Murmrr Theatre. Boston, Massachusetts at the Wilbur Theatre on January 14th. And then we are headed to the Castro Theatre in San Francisco for SF Sketchfest. Three big blowout shows! We're looking for you to come attend them, if you live in one of those places or regions. And we are looking for your cases! So be sure to submit them at MaximumFun.org/jjho and let us know that you live in one of those places, and be sure to grab some tickets! You can find more information at MaximumFun.org/events or JohnHodgman.com/tour.
john
You know, every time we go out on tour we have a great time, they're a ton of surprises, they're completely unpredictable. New cases at every show. These are three of our favorite places to play. And we'll have lots of fun merch that you can look at and maybe buy if you want. Lots of fun times to have, for sure. So again, please, JohnHodgman.com/tour or MaximumFun.org/events for tickets. And you know, we need your cases! So I'll just say it again: MaximumFun.org/jjho. Let us know if you're in town and we'll consider your case for litigation on stage! If we choose you to be litigated on stage, guess what? Your tickets are free, and I will say hello to you backstage.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
We have brought so far I think a modest amount of justice. I think that the Durham area, the research triangle, requires further justice. Do you think we could do it? I mean, we only got about 15 minutes to do this.
john
We have children in the audience, one of whom is desperately wanting to go to bed, I can see right now. [Some audience laughter.]
jesse
Do you think we can offer treble justice in 15 minutes?
john
Set a timer! And let's move to Swift Justice!
jesse
Okay! [Sound that might be gavel-thumping. Crowd cheers and applauds.] Please welcome our first case: Linda and Bridget.
john
Linda and Bridget... Which one is Linda, please?
linda
This is Linda.
john
Hi, Linda! How are you?
linda
Linda: I'm great. How are you? John: You can move that stool a little bit closer to the microphone if you'd like to be more comfortable that way.
john
And you must be Bridget?
bridget
Yeah.
john
And your relationship is...?
bridget
She's my mom.
john
Okay. And she's your daughter.
linda
She's my daughter, yes.
bridget
[Stifling laughter] Mm-hm.
john
I put that together very well. Perfect. [Litigants and audience laugh.] Who comes to this court seeking justice? Is it you, Bridget, or you, Linda?
bridget
I do. Yeah.
john
And Bridget, what is your complaint?
bridget
So my mom, uh, about a year ago started doing this thing where she planks every single day. Um... and she's been increasing it by ten seconds every day for the past year. [A few people cheer enthusiastically, there's some scattered applause.]
john
For the benefit—for the benefit of the sedentary in the audience, would you explain what planking is, Linda? [Some audience laughter.]
linda
Planking is—for me, the way I do it, I am in... not a prone position, but in a position where I'm up on my arms and my toes.
john
Ly—sort of—
linda
In a—
john
Plank—planking your body above the floor, holding yourself aloft on your arms.
linda
Exactly. Exactly.
john
And this is a—is this a Pilates move? [Linda laughs or sighs.] Or a—just a general sort of core strength training move?
linda
I think it's just a general fitness move, yeah.
john
Right. And how did this get started for you?
linda
So I was in a yoga class.
john
Yeah.
linda
And my instructor was—just one day mentioned "Oh, the world record for planking was set." And—
john
What was it?
linda
It was like ten hours—
john
Oh my— [Light audience laughter.]
linda
—ten minutes, and ten seconds. And then he stopped and took like a 30-minute break and then planked for another like, nine hours.
john
A-after he set the record?
linda
Yeah.
john
The world-record planker.
linda
Exactly.
john
And what's this person's name?
linda
George Hood.
john
Well, alright! I didn't think you were gonna remember. [Laughing] I was gonna— [Litigants and audience laugh.]
linda
[Laughing] I didn't either.
john
I was going to speak to the futility of planking in the history of the world, how no one's ever remembered for planking. [More laughter.]
linda
Only the weirdos.
john
Yeah, but—George Hood?
linda
George Hood.
john
George Hood. Well...
jesse
He's now internationally famous via our podcast.
crosstalk
Linda: I'm surprised. John: I should not have— Jesse: To literally dozens of people. John: Yeah. [Audience laughter.]
john
I should—I should not—I should not have thrown shade on a planker. And what's your goal with the planking? How much—how long can you do it, and what's your goal?
linda
So I'm up to an hour and 16 minutes and 50 seconds. [Audience cheers and applauds enthusiastically.] And I'd like to go to two hours.
crosstalk
Linda: I don't do it every day. John: Okay. That's what you— Linda: I've backed off a little bit. John: Right.
linda
I started, and when I got to about 40 minutes it was just too much, so—
john
Do you—what do you think about when you're doing this?
linda
I do different things. Like, I can read.
john
Oh, okay. [Some audience laughter.] It's not purely meditative.
linda
No.
john
It's just self-punishing.
linda
[Laughing] The—exactly. [Audience laughs.]
john
Right.
jesse
Why not—
linda
It's punitive, yeah.
john
Do you watch shows? Do you stream? Do you listen to podcasts, or—?
crosstalk
Linda: Listen to podcasts, read, yeah. John: Right. Right.
john
How do you turn the pages? [Beat. Scattered audience laughter.]
linda
I just take a—I don't do it on my elbows; I do arm planking. So I just do one-handed plank—
john
That doesn't ruin the plank?
linda
Nah.
john
Alright! Good! What are you reading? [Beat. Scattered audience laughter.]
linda
Lots of things!
john
Yeah, I know, it's the worst question in the world, I apologize. [The litigants and the audience laugh.] Your mom seems pretty awesome. Why do you—what are—what's your complaint? Do you live at home?
bridget
I—no.
john
Okay.
bridget
I live away from home.
john
Yeah.
bridget
My problem—
john
Are you a legal adult?
bridget
I'm—I'm 20. Yes. [Laughs.]
john
You're out in the world?
bridget
Yeah, I'm out in the world.
john
Right? It's not like you're at home, tripping over your mom— [Bridget and the audience laugh.] —getting a snack or whatever.
bridget
No! No, no. But I'll—
jesse
She's probably just like all the other... whatever comes after Millennials; she's just planking TikToks! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
bridget
It's true. Or like, not even a TikTok. Not even a full TikTok.
john
No.
bridget
Like—[laughs].
john
But sincerely, why—why—why bring your case before this court?
bridget
She—it's not so much the planking, because I know that she loves it. [Laughs.] But it's the extremity of the planking. And I'll like call her, like, during the week. And I'll be like "Hey mom, what's up?" And she's like "Oh, I'm just planking." [Jesse, the litigants, and the audience laugh.] Or like, I'll go over there—I'll go over there to spend the night or something, over to her house, and she's like "Okay, I gotta do my plank now." And then I'll just be sitting on my phone while she's like, on the floor, planking. [More audience laughter. One or both litigants laugh quietly as John responds.]
john
Yeah, but she can read a book! She can have a conversation! I mean admittedly it's strange— [Bridget and the audience laugh.]
bridget
It is—that's the problem. And—
john
But it's not—she's not going into her—right? You're not going into your own world, right, Linda? You can still have a conversation with Bridget—
linda
Yeah!
john
—while planking, right?
bridget
Yeah! I like the distraction of a conversation while planking.
john
Oh, well you just—oh, so you're just using Bridget as a— [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
linda
[Laughing] Yeah.
john
As a plank distraction.
linda
"Hey Bridget, can you come over so I can plank and have a conversation?" [Litigants and some audience laugh.]
john
Yeah! What—why do you think Bridget is concerned about your planking? What do you—what do you interpret this as? 'Cause I don't get it.
linda
I interpret it as her just thinking that I'm going overboard and being a little over-the-top, maybe.
john
And you agree, Bridget?
bridget
Yeah, and like maybe like a—and healths concern? Like, what if—
john
There's a health concern?
bridget
It's—a little bit. [Laughs.]
john
Are you afraid she might break herself in half? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
jesse
I'm just gonna cut to the chase here, John. Linda, are you just afraid to die? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
bridget
[Laughing] Yes. [Audience laughs.]
jesse
Yes or no?!
linda
I welcome death. [Everyone laughs, including Linda. Someone claps.]
jesse
[Laughing] She said she welcomes death!
john
[Audience laughter swells again as John speaks, vocally straight-faced.] Does your mom's welcoming of death trouble you, Bridget?
bridget
[Laughs.] I don't—she's not, you know, like, buying me groceries anymore, [stifling laughter] so— [Audience and Linda laugh.]
john
Right.
bridget
[Stifling laughter] So less than—less than maybe like, six years ago. But like—[laughs]. [John and the audience laugh.]
john
Now that you can feed yourself, it's fine for her to die?! [Audience and Bridget laugh.]
bridget
I'm just kidding!
john
Sure! [Bridget laughs.] Okay!
jesse
John, that's called the circle of life! [More laughter from the audience and both litigants.]
john
Right. I think I'm—I think you're coming into focus for me now, Bridget. [John, the litigants, and the audience laugh.] There are two things that I think could be going on here, and let me know if either of them resonate with you. Does your mom have a history of going overboard with hobbies in the past?
bridget
Yeah, exercise hobbies.
john
Can you give me an example?
bridget
Well... [Sighs.] She's just like, this reverence, like—like a worship for like, the workout—her workout regime.
john
Yeah.
bridget
Like, she's like, "I'm—I'm empty without it." [Laughs.]
john
We want to be alive! We don't welcome death! I don't believe your body. [Laughter from the audience and the litigants.] The other thing that might be going on that it's sometimes hard for adult children to adjust to how their parents start getting weirder and weirder once they've left the house. [More laughter.] As we try to figure out what just happened for the past 18, 20 years of our lives. [More laughter.] Where—[laughs] when our entire lives were given over to this lovely parasite that we were raising. [More laughter.] And now all they wanna do is criticize us on stage. [More laughter. One of the litigants is cracking up. Some of the audience applauds and cheers.] Does your mom's weird hobby just freak you out a little bit?
bridget
Maybe partially that?
john
Yeah.
bridget
I think it's a very—like—I feel like it might be more productive to just like... go to a therapist or something. [Jesse bursts out laughing, the audience and the litigants also laugh.]
john
Wow.
bridget
[Laughing] Sorry, sorry, Mom!
linda
I do that! [Audience and both litigants laugh.]
john
Look. I appreciate that you can have open communication with each other. [More laughter.] I think there's only one way to resolve this dispute. And that is... trial by planking! [Audience cheers and applauds.] Linda... would you mind planking on stage? In this area? [Scattered laughter.]
linda
I do not mind.
john
I'm glad to hear that. [Linda laughs.] Because Linda, if you can plank... for the rest of this entire segment— [Audience laughs.] —then I shall rule in your favor. [Audience laughs again.] If you should falter... Bridget shall be the winner. [More laughter.]
crosstalk
Bridget: That's not fair! [Laughs.] John: I don't even know what it means except winning or losing. It's not fair?! [Audience and both litigants laugh.] Bridget: She can do it! [Laughs.] She can do it! John: Let me tell you something, young lady, life isn't fair! [More laughter.]
john
Mom, get planking!
jesse
The stakes are higher for your mother! [Audience starts cheering and applauding.] [Stifling laughter] If she loses, we murder her! [Audience and Bridget laugh.]
bridget
[Laughing] Okay! That's acceptable!
john
Could we—let's—let's get Linda into planking mode. [Someone shouts something inaudible.]
jesse
Linda's—
john
Oh, someone wants to plank with her! [Some laughter and cheers from the audience.] Are—there she goes. [Cheering and applause from the audience.] And now—
jesse
Linda's removed her sensible and attractive flats.
john
Someone start a timer. Someone—here, this person on the end, start a timer. We'll add ten seconds to whatever your result is. Bridget, if you would like to sit by your mom while she planks, or you may leave the stage. Which would you like? [Pause. Linda or an audience member shouts something, only "planking" can be made out. Bridget and the audience laugh.] I know this is very—
bridget
I'm gonna watch you from afar. [Laughs.]
john
Watch it—right, okay.
bridget
I love you, good luck. [Laughs.] [Jesse and the audience laugh.]
john
Bridget, we'll have you come out later when we figure out the result of this.
bridget
Okay!
john
But we're—let's move on to the next case.
jesse
Please welcome Megan and Laura! [Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
She can't even watch you, Linda. She can't even watch you. Megan and Laura... who brings this case before me?
megan
I do.
john
And what justice do you seek, and what's your name, also?
megan
I'm—I'm Megan.
john
Hi, Megan.
megan
Hi!
john
How are you? I'm John.
megan
[Laughing] Good, I guess.
jesse
I'm Jesse.
john
You can—you can call me Pastor John. [Megan, Jesse, and the audience laugh.]
megan
So I bring this case against my sister.
john
Yeah.
megan
I really like to sing.
john
Yeah!
megan
I often make up songs, and words to songs. I'm just singing along with songs in my head all the time.
john
Yeah.
megan
And Laura says that I ruin songs. [John gasps, then he, the audience, and Megan laugh.] And I would like her to stop telling me that I ruin songs, and just let me live my life. [Megan and the audience laugh.]
john
May I presume that Laura is the elder sister?
laura
I'm the middle child.
john
And in—in age relation to Megan?
laura
Eh, Megan's like a year and a half older than me.
crosstalk
Megan: I'm the oldest. John: Oh, you're older—oh, you're the eldest! Laura: She's the—
laura
We get that a lot, actually.
john
Oh, interesting!
laura
Yeah.
john
Yeah, because you are... uh, an angry, controlling person who wants to—
laura
Well... [Everyone laughs, including Laura.]
john
Who resents your sister's joy! [More laughter.] You resent her freedom to move through the world happily and without the need to be the good one all the time.
laura
Those are not—
john
That's why I pegged you for the older sister, but—
laura
Those are not the words I would choose.
john
No. No. You're just a middle child.
laura
Yes.
john
So—
laura
Very much so.
john
So alright, I understand. How does Megan "ruin" songs?
laura
I'd like to point out, for the record, that Megan does have a beautiful singing voice. Megan sings like a bird, she harmonizes, it's beautiful. So when she's singing for real, it's a beautiful thing! But then all of a sudden, she'll just— [Laura blows raspberries, Megan and the audience laugh. Megan continues laughing quietly.] Or change the words, or like, make fun of it, and so then it just grinds my gears! I'm like, "Why can't you just either sing the beautiful, normal words, [stifling laughter] or—or just sit in silence?" [Audience and Megan laugh.]
crosstalk
Megan: Well—and then—[laughs]. Jesse: Have you ever considered she might be singing a song by the Fat Boys, in which case going— [The audience and one or both litigants laugh as Jesse briefly beatboxes, similar to the raspberry sound.] Jesse: —would be perfectly appropriate!
john
How ya doing, Linda? Good?
linda
Good!
john
Fantastic.
jesse
Yeah. [Audience cheers and laughs.]
crosstalk
Jesse: Still there. She's down there steady plankin'. John: Megan? Megan: [Laughing] Yes?
john
At s—at one point, you were going to speak. [He and Megan laugh.] Let's go back to that.
megan
Okay. Um, well, also part of the problem is that I don't even have to say anything before I ruin a song for Laura. And I do try to be conscious of certain songs that she is sensitive to, or— [Audience laughter.]
john
What songs in particular?
megan
So Laura is an aerialist performer—
john
Oh! [Scattered cheers.]
megan
—so if she is going to be doing an aerialist—
jesse
Wait, hold on. A Judge John Hodgman litigant with circus skills?! [One or both litigants laugh. Swell of cheering and applause from the audience.]
laura
Yes.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] Do you also like board games, Ma'am? [Litigants and audience laugh.]
laura
Very much so.
jesse
Yeah.
megan
So you know, if it's something that is meaningful for Laura I try very hard, my best, to not sing different words or sing in a goofy voice. But I don't realize that I'm doing it most of the time, which is the issue, is I—I don't—I can't always help myself.
john
I'm sorry, what does this have to do with aerial... artistry?
megan
If it's a song that she's performing to...
john
Oh, I see.
megan
...then she will say "Don't sing to this song. That's the only thing I'll think about while I'm in the air is you singing the weird way of the song," so... [laughs].
john
Do you—before I ask what the song—well, what is the song?
megan
Well, she's done several performances. She's done one to Sylvan Esso and [hesitantly] Hoosier?
laura
Hozier.
john
These are nonsense syllables. [The audience and the litigants laugh.] This is not—this is not Huey Lewis and the News: Sports. I got there, Jesse.
jesse
Yeah.
laura
Sylvan Esso—Durhamites know what Sylvan Esso is. [Litigants laugh, audience cheers and applauds.]
john
Uh, what is—[stifling laughter] what is the song?
laura
So it's called "Come Down," and it's one of their lesser-known ones, and it's a capella, and it's just Amelia singing over some weird, like, vibey electronic stuff.
john
Cool.
laura
So it's super soft and sweet. And so the last thing I need when I'm 18 feet in the air, doing this very serious piece, is Megan in the back of my head going [cartoonishly wavery and intense] "Coooome doooown!" [Megan and the audience laugh.] I'm just...
jesse
[Stifling laughter] So you—you mostly do Scott Stapp voice? [Audience and litigants laugh.]
megan
Honestly, I don't know! 'Cause I don't even always realize that I'm doing it. She'll just be like, "Megan, you're doing it!"
john
Megan says that you have a beautiful voice, but that you sometimes go [blows raspberries] and whatever. [One of the litigants laughs.] How do you res—is that true? And are you—are you moving into weird voice on purpose? Obviously we're gonna hear demo of good voice and weird voice in a moment. [One of the litigants laughs.] But I just—like, what's going on?
megan
Definitely there is a combination. And like I said, I don't even always realize that I'm doing it. So I'm probably doing it by myself in the car. Yeah, I'll be either just singing on purpose and if either I don't know the words or if there's a natural pause in the song, and I'm like, "This needs a little rapping in the middle." [Audience laughs.] Um, you know, then something comes out.
john
I can guarantee that's not true. [Litigants and audience laugh.]
laura
We did submit some evidence, I don't know if it's available.
john
Oh, yes! I—of course. Let's see.
megan
But it's not... [Audience and litigants laugh.]
john
Let the record show that there is a beautiful photo of Megan and Laura levitating. [More laughter.]
laura
At Long Island.
john
An incredible—you're an incredible aerialist. You're doing that without a trapeze or anything.
crosstalk
John: No—no stilts or whatever. Laura: That's right, yeah. Megan: Yeah, she's holding me up. [One of the litigants laughs.] John: Right. That's—yeah. Laura: Yeah. Right.
laura
There is a picture of Megan—this is not this one, unfortunately, although—
john
Next slide, then? [Pause.] [Audience and litigants laugh.] This is a picture of someone stealing—
crosstalk
Laura: That's Megan! Megan: That's me!
john
That's Megan stealing an hors d'oeuvre, or a cookie?
laura
A cookie at our sister's wedding. And this demonstrates Megan's... just, commitment to whimsy. [Audience laughter.] And—
john
I thought it was gonna be lack of impulse control, but sure. [Audience and Megan laugh.]
crosstalk
Laura: Well, yes! And—she wanted to be— John: It's kind of the same thing.
laura
Correct. Yes. [Megan laughs.]
john
Right.
laura
That's actually also not the picture I was thinking—well, let's see. It's coming. [Pause.] Oh, that's—[laughs].
john
Oh. [Audience, litigants, and Jesse laugh.]
jesse
Hey! Look at this, a dog dressed as a goshdarn rainbow! [More laughter.]
crosstalk
John: Linda, are you okay? Jesse: Ohhh, but he's also dressed as the Joker from the movie The Jokerrr! [More laughter.]
jesse
He doesn't care for society's conventions! [More laughter. Someone claps a few times.]
john
What does this represent?
laura
So this is my dog Quincy. He's a ten-year-old toy poodle rescue.
john
Lovely.
laura
And it demonstrates that I too have a sense of whimsy! And I'm not a... whatever you called me at the beginning. [Audience and Megan laugh.] Controlling...
john
Obsessed with control and resentful of younger, freer people because— [Both litigants and the audience laugh.] —you lived your entire life under the pressure to be the good one. [Someone in the audience cheers.]
laura
...Yeah, my dog's a rainbow! [The litigants, Jesse, and the audience laugh.]
jesse
John, she's got a point! The dog's a rainbow!
john
Methinks thou doth dress your dog up too much. [Litigants and audience laugh.] And is there any other evidence that you wish to share?
megan
There—there, uh—
john
No, we don't—
laura
Oh, this—okay. There actually was a picture of Megan singing "Wings Beneath My Wings" as she made a hole-in-one in mini-golf. [Audience laughter.]
john
Yeah!
laura
So, but...
john
Well, a picture of that would not be as good as... [Megan laughs.]
laura
[Laughing] You're right. Let's do it.
john
...Megan singing it now. Obviously you care very much about each other.
megan
Yes.
john
Right?
laura
Yes. Yes.
john
And you spend a lot of time together.
laura
Yes.
john
Or else this wouldn't be an issue.
laura
[Laughing] Right.
john
If you were estranged, you wouldn't—you would never hear her sing... sing again. And if I were to rule in your favor, that's exactly what's gonna happen. [Audience and litigants laugh.] You'll never hear her sing again.
laura
There's gotta be a middle ground.
john
So—no! No, middle child, no middle ground! [More laughter. John also laughs.] You're the one who brought this case—no.
crosstalk
Megan: I did. John: You are. Alright. Laura: I did, yes. [Laughs.]
john
So. Sing to your sister "Wind Beneath My Wings," and we'll decide!
megan
Sure. Okay. Uh—ahem. [Laura laughs quietly.]
john
That was a total fake throat-clear, by the way. [Audience and litigants laugh.]
megan
[Laughing] That was—
john
"Heh-hem. Heh-hem. [Singing] Mi, mi, mi, mi, mi! Miii, miii! Mm! [Vocal exercise variant of a raspberry]! Mm! [Singing] Open pit barbecue sauce!" [Speaking] Alright? [John, the litigants, and the audience laugh.]
megan
[Megan sings genuinely, vocally straight-faced.] Did I ever tell you you're my heeerooo? You're everything I wish I couuuld beee. I could fly higher than an eeeagle. 'Cause you are the wind beneath my wings! [Someone in the audience shouts something not quite clear but positive-sounding, possibly "Linda." Someone laughs. Audience cheers and applauds.]
jesse
Nailed it.
john
Even—even the woman who is planking managed to applaud! [Audience and the litigants laugh.] I do not understand how you could be ruining any song!
crosstalk
Megan: That wasn't a ruining example. [Laughs.] Linda: Okay—okay— John: I—
laura
How about I'll sing the song, and then you ruin it? [The litigants and the audience laugh.]
john
Alright. I'll allow it. Quickly now.
laura
[Singing] Did I ever tell you you're my heeerooo—
megan
You're my hero, baby, yeah! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
jesse
Oh, wow. [Stifling laughter] Nailed it again!
john
I find—
jesse
Reverse nailed it!
john
I find in Megan's favor. Sing whatever you want.
megan
Yes!
john
This is the sound of a— [Several live gavel bangs as the audience cheers and applauds.]
jesse
Please welcome Ali and Karen!
john
Ali and Karen, please come to the stage. Oh! But 'tis the season of giving! [Laughs.]
crosstalk
Ali: 'Tis! John: You have also brought something to the court.
ali
I sure have.
john
And... probably not drugs, right? [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
ali
Not this time, sorry. [Laughs.]
john
Oh, alright. Who seeks justice before the court, please?
ali
I seek justice before the court.
john
And you are...?
ali
I'm Ali.
john
Ali, and you must be Karen.
karen
Yes.
john
Ali, what is the nature of the dispute and the reason for these two beautiful cakes out here?
ali
My favorite sister in the whole world, and I have a whole bunch—[laughs] I love her so much—
john
Wait a minute, what?
jesse
[Laughing] We're recording this! [Audience laughs.]
ali
Yeah, no, I have a whole bunch. [John and/or Jesse laughs.] I would do anything for her on her birthday.
john
Mm-hm.
ali
And she has become—she is very inflexible about the cake that she wants.
john
She's very inflexible about the cake that she wants.
ali
Yeah.
john
What cake do you want?
karen
Yellow cake from a box with chocolate frosting from a can. [John and the audience laugh. Some cheering and applause.]
john
That's a classic! You understand. Ali. That's a classic.
ali
It's a disgusting classic. [Laughs.]
john
Yeah, but it's Karen's birthday!
karen
It's not Funfetti.
ali
I understand that. [Audience laughter.] But I can make any cake! And my cakes are so delicious that she has told me on other occasions that she would invite the cake into her marriage, and her husband's okay with it! [Ali and the audience laugh.]
john
It—she would bring the cake into her marital bed?
ali
The—perhaps.
karen
No, I would marry the cake and have an extra spouse. [John and the audience laugh.]
ali
Yeah! [Laughs.]
john
A spouse cake!
ali
Yeah. Sister cakes! [One or both litigants laugh.]
john
Karen, is Ali a really good baker?
karen
She is.
john
Okay. Does Ali make you cakes other times of the year?
karen
Sometimes.
john
What kinds of cakes does she make?
karen
She makes a lot of different things. Chocolate tortes. She doesn't always make cakes, but she makes a lot of dinners. I don't ever cook anything, so if there's a family event, a lot of the cooking comes from her, and she's a very good cook.
john
Right. And you brought some evidence to show the court here?
ali
I did.
john
Let's take a look on the screen. Okay. This is some David Cronenberg-ian body horror, I believe. I, uh... [Audience, litigants, and Jesse laugh.]
ali
This is—
john
Looks like a writhing mass of wounded flesh... [More laughter.] ...pierced with flaming knives? Uh... I'm just kidding.
ali
Yeah.
john
It's a bird's-eye view of a cake!
ali
Yeah.
john
What kind of cake is it?
ali
That would be the bad cake.
john
That's a Videodrome cake. Why?
ali
Uh, yeah. [She, the audience, and John laugh.]
john
This is—oh, this is the bad cake!
ali
This is the bad cake, yeah.
john
Oh, this is your yellow cake from a box, chocolate frosting from a can—
ali
Yes.
john
—shot from above.
crosstalk
Ali & Karen: Yes.
john
Okay, so, right. And, uh—[laughs] by the way, candles? Very haphazard. Is that part of the deal? Like... [Audience and litigants laugh.]
karen
It's an A for my sister April and a heart.
john
Ohhhhh!
ali
Yeah.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] I mean, sort of.
john
[Laughing] Yeah. [Audience and litigants laugh.]
ali
Yeah. [Laughs.]
john
You could get a little pastry bag and do a little piping and it'll look a lot neater.
ali
Yeah.
karen
I don't own one.
ali
She can't do that. [Both litigants laugh.]
john
Okay. No, I no, but—this is the cake that you made yourself.
karen
Yeah.
john
For your other sister, April.
karen
Yes.
john
Right, okay, gotcha.
karen
Yeah. Yeah.
john
And—your many, many sisters.
crosstalk
Karen: Yeah. Ali: There's a lot. [Laughs.]
john
How many are there?
jesse
Your many less-preferred sisters. [Jesse, one of the litigants, and the audience laugh.]
ali
Yeah.
karen
There's five girls and one boy.
john
Wowie.
karen
Yeah.
john
Alright. So let's go to the next slide, please? This is a dark chocolate cake with raspberries on it. What's the—
ali
It's a chocolate torte.
crosstalk
Ali: With choc— John: A chocolate torte. Oh, pardon me. I apologize. [Audience laughs.] Ali: Yeah. With chocolate ganache.
ali
And fresh raspberries.
john
This is something that you made—
ali
Yes.
john
—Ali, for Karen?
ali
I make it for Karen, and anyone else who wants to enjoy it.
john
Right.
ali
Including you. [Laughs.]
john
It looks very good. Nice work.
ali
Thanks. [Laughs.]
john
It does not look like a David Cronenberg horror movie.
ali
No. [Audience laughter.]
john
I'll say that. Next slide, please? Oh!
ali
Oh.
john
There we go!
ali
That's it. [Audience laughter.]
john
So the evidence is you make beautiful-looking cakes, and they're delicious.
ali
I do.
john
And you want to make your sister a cake for her birthday that is not the junk cake that she desires.
ali
Right.
john
And do you have a birthday coming up any time soon?
karen
No.
john
Okay. [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.]
crosstalk
Ali: She just had one. John: Alright! Jesse: [Stifling laughter] Would you say you have one coming up in the next year or so? John: Yeah! Yeah. [Audience and litigants laugh.] Karen: Yes.
john
I was going to say, "Ali, it seems like case closed! Your sister has stopped aging, so it doesn't matter anyway." [Audience and litigants laugh.]
ali
That's right.
john
For Karen's next birthday, whenever it may be...
ali
Yeah.
john
What cake do you propose to make, instead of her favorite?
ali
Any other cake from scratch. [Ali and some of the audience laugh.] I've offered to make that cake for her from scratch, yellow cake from scratch. Pound cake—
john
Oh, the exact cake!
ali
The exact cake!
crosstalk
John: Okay, now you've got a case! Ali: Yeah. Right. John: Now you've got a case! Ali: Just not from a box. John: To make an exact—right.
john
An exact, from-scratch yellow cake with chocolate frosting. That is not acceptable to you, Karen?
karen
Mm, no.
john
Alright! [Audience and one or both litigants laugh.] Why do you have these two cakes here?
ali
Okay. So that you can taste-test the cakes.
john
Oh—
ali
So you can see the true—yeah.
john
Oh! So you have junk cake and a—and a different—?
ali
Yeah. I have trash cake... and delicious torte. [Ali and the audience laugh.]
john
I normally do not eat sweets. I do not have a sweet tooth, but...
ali
I understand that.
john
I have an alcohol molar. [Audience laughs.]
ali
I know, I—I accounted for that. [Laughs.]
john
Oh, what is this that you're offering me?
ali
This is—this is—
john
Johnnie Walker Blue Label?
ali
This—[laughs].
john
Druuuugs! [Audience and litigants laugh, audience cheers and applauds.] [John sighs happily.] Thank you!
ali
You're welcome.
john
It's a very kind gift, but as this is the season of giving, there you go, child. [Audience and litigants laugh.] Take this whiskey.
ali
Yeah.
john
I'm a man with a mustache, take this whiskey! [More laughter and applause.]
ali
Yeah. Yeah. Alright. [Laughs.]
john
So the cake I'm holding is chocolate torte with raspberries, made by you, Ali.
ali
And chocolate ganache.
john
And choc—I'm—alright.
ali
Yeah.
john
I'm sorry I forgot the ganache. [Ali and the audience laugh.] Again. Maybe this is why your sister doesn't wanna make—have you make one of these cakes! [More laughter.]
ali
Yeah. [Laughs.]
john
[Laughs.] "I hope you're appreciating the dusting of cocoa."
ali
[Stifling laughter] There is dusting of cocoa.
john
[Viciously] Of course there's dusting of cocoa! [Audience and litigants laugh.] [Regular tone] Linda, how you doing? Good.
ali
Yeah. Okay.
john
And this is trash cake.
crosstalk
Ali: Yes, from a box mix. John: This is legit trash cake. Ali: Right. John: Not Ali's take on trash cake.
ali
No.
john
Alright.
ali
Frosting from a can.
jesse
John is inserting the fork into the trash cake. [Audience laughter.]
john
First I'm getting that bite ready.
jesse
Preparing a bite, preparing a raspberry and all. Looks like—that looks like a chocolate ganache to me. [More laughter.]
john
Now, the fact is I'm—I'm actually... you know, on the road you have to be careful about what you eat. I am eating no carbs at this time. So I'm gonna give this to Linda and she'll decide. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
ali
Yeah. [The litigants laugh.] Yeah. Yeah.
jesse
Linda is planking and chewing.
ali
Yeah. [Laughs.] Yeah.
jesse
Hi, Linda. I'm sideline reporter Jesse Thorn. [Audience and litigants laugh. Someone in the audience shouts Linda's name.] [Laughing] She wants the bourbon now! [Everyone laughs. Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
Yeah.
jesse
Linda—
john
No, the ch—I—the child can't give up his bourbon! How dare you? [More laughter.] I'll buy you a drink after the show. Don't worry.
ali
Yeah. [Many people are laughing. Child in the audience says something inaudible.]
john
What did you say, young man? [Child repeats himself.]
jesse
He said—
john
You don't need it? Alright, do you wanna give it to this nice lady?
jesse
After going through this experience...
john
[Laughing] Yeah.
jesse
[Laughing] You'll need it later. [Audience laughs, cheers, and applauds.]
john
Let the record show Linda expertly and swiftly planked over. [Jesse and the audience laugh.] It is not bourbon, technically. It is one of the finest blended whiskeys, and it's very delicious. And I hope you enjoy it.
jesse
[Stifling laughter] She planked over there like nature's greatest planker, the iguana. [Audience laughs.]
ali
Yeah.
john
Alright, Linda. Here is the trash cake. [More laughter, some cheering and applause.]
jesse
Linda, how's that chew? It's going—Linda's doing her chewing now. I wanna give her an opportun—John, can you grab the milk for Linda?
john
That's a good idea. [More laughter.]
ali
Yeah.
jesse
She's gonna have to—[laughs] cleanse her palate here.
john
Is there a straw available? [More laughter.]
ali
Mm-mm. I did not bring one, sorry!
jesse
It's okay, she can drink it while planking! [More laughter.]
john
Producer Hannah, could you come out here? I've only got one hand, I can't open a bottle of milk.
ali
I can open—[laughs].
jesse
Okay.
crosstalk
John: Our producer Hannah Smith, everybody. Jesse: Our producer Hannah Smith, folks! [Audience cheers and applauds.]
jesse
Okay, now Linda is...
john
This is amazing.
jesse
...drinking the milk while planking! [More cheering and applause.]
john
NSP: Never Stop Planking!
jesse
Linda—
john
Jesse, would you hold the microphone to Linda so that I may ask her some questions?
linda
Yes.
john
Linda. Which of those two cakes did you enjoy more?
linda
I'm the wrong person to ask. I will always choose nasty cake over—[laughs]. [Audience and litigants laugh.]
john
Surprise decision from Linda!
linda
Yeah.
john
But that wasn't the ruling. That was just which did she enjoy more?
ali
Yeah.
john
It's subjective.
ali
Mm.
john
Linda happens to be like your sister; she loves trash cake! [Some audience laughter.] This is a beautiful cake. No one can deny this is a beautiful cake. But Linda, in your opinion, on someone's birthday, should they have the trash cake they want? Or the chocolate ganache their sister wants to force on them? [Audience and litigants laugh.]
linda
Trash cake you want. Always. [Audience cheers and applauds.]
john
Trash cake you want, I'm afraid. I'm sorry, Ali. You're a very generous sister, but birthdays are birthdays, after all. [Several live gavel bangs.] I find in Karen's favor. We have a tradition in Swift Justice. The segment cannot end until... the person planking... [Audience laughter.] ...drinks some blended whiskey out of a small bottle. [Audience and litigants laugh.] I don't think you should be—what—can she open that?
jesse
[Laughing] Holy cow! [More laughter, swelling into raucous applause and cheering.] She's opening it with her mouth like an alcoholic iguana!
john
[Shouting/projecting over the applause.] Where's Bridget?! Where's Bridget?! In absentia, I find in Linda's favor! I find in Ali's favor! That's Swift Justice! [Seven live gavel bangs.]
crosstalk
Jesse: Ali, Karen— John: You can stop planking, Madam!
jesse
And the legendary Linda! [Applause and cheering is still going strong.]
john
You may stop! You may stop. Thank you.
jesse
Let's hear it for Linda, ladies and gentlemen! [Applause and cheering redoubles and then the live audio fades out.]
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
promo
Music: Mid-tempo, upbeat music. Jo Firestone: Hi, I'm Jo Firestone. Manolo Moreno: And I'm Manolo Moreno. Jo: And we're the hosts of Dr. Gameshow, which is a podcast where we play games submitted by listeners, regardless of quality or content, with in-studio guests and callers from all over the world! Manolo: And you can win a custom magnet. Jo: A custom magnet! Manolo: Subscribe now to make sure you get our next episode. Jo: What's an example of a game, Manolo? Manolo: "Pokémon or Medication?" Jo: How do you play that? Manolo: You have to guess if something's a Pokémon name— [Next two lines overlapping]
promo
Jo: Or medication? Manolo: —or a medication. Manolo: First-time listener, if you want to listen to episode highlights and also know how to participate, follow Dr. Gameshow on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Jo: We'd love to hear from you! Manolo: Yeah, it's really fun! Jo: For the whole family! We'll be every other Wednesday starting March 13th, and we're coming to MAX FUN! Manolo: Snorlax. Jo: Pokémon? Manolo: Yes. Jo: Nice!
promo
Music: Gentle, upbeat piano music. J. Keith van Straaten: Hey everybody, this is J. Keith van Straaten, host of Go Fact Yourself, a live game show here on the Maximum Fun network. On Go Fact Yourself, we take the smartest people we know, and make them look dumb. J. Keith: Paul, by the way, how much do you know about chicken husbandry? Paul F. Tompkins: You gotta give ‘em that grain. J. Keith: Alright! [Audience laughs.] Paul: You gotta give ‘em that grain! J. Keith: And then smart again. J. Keith: What future hall of fame pitcher for the Cleveland Indians became the first active player to enlist— Speaker 1: Bob Feller. J. Keith: —wh—oh. Okay! [Audience laughs again.]
promo
J. Keith: We’ve got me, co-host Helen Hong, plus celebrity guests and actual surprise experts. J. Keith: Alright, we have an expert on hand for sure. Speaker 2: Is it Allan Havey? J. Keith: Helen, who do we have tonight? Helen Hong: Allan Havey! J. Keith: Allan Havey! [Crowd cheers.] J. Keith: In the coming weeks, you can hear guests like Maria Bamford, Tom Bergeron, Paul F. Tompkins, Janet Varney, and Grant Imahara. Check us out on the first and third Friday of every month, here on the Maximum Fun network. [Music continues for a moment, then ends.]
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
Our thanks to all of the litigants who shared their disputes with us in Durham, North Carolina, and of course all of the folks who came out to the show. We had a great time. I hope that you enjoyed listening to it. This episode recorded by our friend Jeff Bird, native son of San Francisco, and produced by the great Hannah Smith. Jesus Ambrosio is our editor. Follow us on Twitter at @JesseThorn and @hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman Tweets #JJHo! And check out the Maximum Fun subreddit—that's at MaximumFun.Reddit.com—to chat about this week's episode. We're on Instagram at @judgejohnhodgman; make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
sound effect
[Three gavel bangs.]
music
A cheerful guitar chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
About the show
Have your pressing issues decided by Famous Minor Television Personality John Hodgman, Certified Judge. If you’d like John Hodgman to solve your pressing issue, please contact us HERE.
Follow @judgejohnhodgman on Instagram to view evidence from the cases tried in court.
Get in touch with the show
@judgejohnhodgman
@judgejohnhodgman.bsky.socialPeople
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
