Transcript
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs
oliver
Hello, I’m Oliver Wang.
morgan
And I’m Morgan Rhodes. You’re listening to Heat Rocks.
oliver
Welcome to the final episode of our Music and Popcorn series, where we are deep-diving into the intersection between pop music and movies. Today’s heat rock—you know, a film and soundtrack that are straight fire—turns 20 years old this month. Stephen Frears’s film adaptation of author Nick Hornby’s novel about love, loss, and record stores, High Fidelity.
music
“Always See Your Face” off the album High Fidelity by L.O.V.E. Mid-tempo rock. Won't somebody please Help me with my memories? Can't somebody see? Yeah [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
As a record collector and music writer, when High Fidelity came out in March of 2000, it maybe hit just a little too close to home. Like, the movie’s struggling protagonist, Rob Gordon, I too was in my messy late 20s and early 30s, trying to navigate my professional and personal life. Not to mention growing record collection, alphabetized by artist, I’ll have you all know. [Morgan responds emphatically.] Had the movie just been about Rob, played by John Cusack at the tail end of his rom-com days, running his Chicago record store, Championship Vinyl, alongside dysfunctional fellow music snobs Dick and Barry I already would have been all the way in. But, like Nick Hornby’s other novels from this era, High Fidelity is ultimately a coming of age film about a manchild trying to drag himself into adulthood, partly by revisiting the top five greatest misses of his dating past. Musical wisdom and romantic truisms walk hand in hand in the film, scored to everything from New York post-punk to then-cutting edge crystal break beats, plus a little Marvin Gaye sprinkled in. Recently remade into a television series on Hulu, High Fidelity tries to teach us something about love and relationships via records—or was that the other way around?
music
[“Always See Your Face” plays again.] And I know I know And I say, oh, I say That no matter where you go, go You will always see my face [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
High Fidelity was the movie and soundtrack pick of our guest today, Drea Clark. Drea Clark does a lot of things and does them well. She’s a film producer, festival creator, curator, programmer. Lake Los Angeles, The Last Time You Had Fun, No Light No Land Anywhere are all her. She is one-quarter of Maximum Fun’s Who Shot Ya. [Oliver affirms.] I love that title. I wanna say I came up with it, but I didn’t. And she has been down with them since September 8, 2017. I would tell you she’s good at mixtapes, but I can’t say that because she owes me one. Shots fired. [Drea laughs.] Drea Clark, welcome To Heat Rocks.
drea
It is no surprise to me that you worked that into my intro because Morgan tells me that every time I see her. I know, I gotta.
morgan
Where’s my mixtape?
drea
I like to think that Who Shot Ya is not only the only Max Fun podcast with a biggie name, but maybe the only one out there. [Morgan affirms.] That’s, uh, that's our goal. That’s our secret movie podcast goal.
oliver
I need to know more about this mixtape.
morgan
She promised me this—when was I on the show?
drea
It was—it was at least over a year ago now.
oliver
And—and a mixtape of what?
morgan
Yo. Your guess is as good as mine, because I ain’t got it.
oliver
Okay. I’m gonna get super-early into the nitpicks from High Fidelity, but—
morgan
Alright.
oliver
—Rob talks about mixtapes, but he calls them compilation tapes, and like, nobody ever calls a mixtape a compilation tape.
morgan
No. And that was one of the indications that Rob wasn’t as cool as he thought he was. [Oliver and Drea laugh uproariously.] There were several other times where I was like, “Yo, you—you're not cool.”
oliver
We will certainly get into that. [Drea and Morgan affirm.] Drea, welcome, why High Fidelity? Given—given the vast catalogue of films about music or featuring music, why High Fidelity?
drea
Um, you mean why give myself the anxiety inducement of choosing a film about music snobbery then coming onto Heat Rocks with it? [Morgan laughs.] Like, I literally had palpitations. I’m like, there’s some meta lesson here of um, “Oh, yeah, this movie that’s entirely about a character who expresses himself through music, and this arcane knowledge of obscure tracks.” Whereas I am just stone cold nerd, who like—I have a friend Tessa, who is my purveyor of music, and like, if Tessa hasn’t given it to me, and if it was made after like, 2009, I don’t know it. So, I’m much more a film buff than a music buff. But as such, for watching a film like High Fidelity, there’s things that I recognize in that fanaticism, in that wanting to know the scope of things as a way to express yourself, or to share your world with people. But there’s also, like many people in any fandom that I look at, there’s something so exclusionary about people who make it so much more about, like the baseball stats. Of like, having the one-upmanship of, “Oh—” instead of looking at something like, “[Emphatic] Oh, you like Adam Sandler movies? Cool, you should check out, like, Preston Sturgis.” Instead it’s like, “[Scornful] Oh, you like Adam Sandler movies.” And so, High Fidelity reflected a lot of what I feel about film, but did it through medium that I'm a fan of, because music moves me, because I’m alive. But, I don’t have the like, deep knowledge of, like, other people.
morgan
Well, and no pressure. High Fidelity only has 70 placements. So for—
drea
I mean, right?!
morgan
By film standards, that’s just a lot of—and when I first saw the film I wasn’t a music supervisor yet, obviously, so I had no idea about the budget. Then looking at it again last night, I was like, “Oh my God.”
drea
When I rewatched this with my producer eyes, I was like, “I need to take a nap. I need fifteen different people working on licensing. I’m gonna die.”
morgan
That’s right. That’s right.
oliver
Did you watch it in theaters when it first came out?
drea
I did. I was a huge John Cusack fan, like many white girls from the midwest. I had a crush on uh, Lloyd Dobler, like I was, um—I enjoyed him and his whole thing. I definitely watched it when he came out, even though it came out at a time when I was probably seeing less in the theaters, ‘cause I think I was still in school. That’s like, your most insulated, I think. Um, so yeah, I remember that, and it’s an interesting film. I like that you uh—it’s old enough now that you can recognize, like, uh, a kinship with him. And then the pullback, and watching from now, I was like, “Oh. This man is horrible.” [Oliver laughs.] Like, my read on it this time, like I’ve always had such a fondness of the film. I love Nick Hornby as a writer, and his language is so delicious, and the interplay, and there’s just like great, sparkling characters. But I didn’t realize until now as an old, wizened woman just like, how toxic and shallow Rob was? When I was like, “Ugh, that guy’s so cool.”
oliver
I definitely want to come back to us talking about how the film has aged, because I have not watched this film in quite a while, even though it used to be something I really enjoyed, and then—but it’s been years. And I went back to it, and I had a very similar reaction. We’ll get to that in a second. I’m curious about first impressions, and how about for you, Morgan, when you first—did you first watch when it first came out?
morgan
Um, I watched it after it came out. So before I even got into all the things what were toxic about him, I just didn’t like his character. Um, he had a bit of a Ferris Bueller-y thing to me. [Oliver agrees.] He had—he had homeboys weren’t cool either. But my reaction then was, “These guys have the hits.” So, taking all the weight, everything I had thought about him personally, it really was a clinic in collecting. No matter what they called it, it really was a clinic for that. I don’t like music snobs at all. I think if you know music, you should pass it on and be in the role of the educator, so that type of personality turns me off. But if you are a music snob and a music collector, this is your lane, right here.
oliver
And you know the personality, so even—that may not be you, but you’ve certainly come across—at least for me as someone who's spent more time in record stores than I care to admit—I recognize those personalities from around the corner, because they are slightly exaggerated, but only ever so slightly.
drea
Dick and Barry were the perfect like, the companions in this shot, because 100% I’ve seen them in every record store I’ve ever gone in. They also are the guys who work in every AV club in a high school. Like, I know those two dudes so well, they were so well cast, so well utilized. But, I’d argue that Rob, who grows more and more questionable the more you age, if you’re me and take a minute, um, he would have been even more insufferable if he had cool friends. Like, I would way rather hang around with the Dick and Barrys of the world, who are just sincere dorks immersed in their world, with kind of blinders on, than with a pack of Robs.
morgan
I like—I like Dick, right. ‘Cause that was just social anxiety, with a hell of a playlist, you know? So you don’t mind that, right? That’s—
drea
He’s so tender.
morgan
That’s that dude. Jack Black, Barry.
oliver
Barry’s fun in small doses. Like you would go to the store just to rubberneck on his behavior. You wouldn't want to actually have to go to a concert with him.
morgan
No, or drink with him. Because then he’s just like, “I’m gonna kill you.”
drea
No, even like the store, it would be like going to close up magic, but you don’t want to be so close they bring you in. You're like, “No, I don’t want to be a participant, I just want to watch what you’re doing.” Like, if Barry ever made eye contact with me, and then like asked me about a song, I would, like, “Oh, what, is that my alarm?” and then like have to run out.
morgan
And I think further to this point, the people that came into the record store—this is what sort of got on my nerves about it, is that they treated them so poorly. And we all know someone like that at a record store, you walk up to them, and you hate to ask them for that one record. And they just had that personality that it was just like, “Oh my God.” And I wasn’t collecting records like that then. Now I am, and I recognize those guys at every record store.
oliver
In terms of looking back on it, what was really striking to me about High Fidelity is how it really captures this moment in pop culture and music in the late ‘90s, early ‘00s, file sharing Napster has not blown up yet. Streaming certainly doesn’t exist. This is all pre-social media, and people aren't still making tapes for another. And in a lot of ways, that dynamic—I don’t want to be too nostalgic here for it, but since I lived through it, I identify very strongly with that. It is—there is something about it that I kind of had forgotten how unique—only compared to now—but how different it was just 20 years back. I guess maybe 20 years is not “just”, it’s quite a while back. But that this really as right on the cusp before the way in which we consume music, the way in which it is distributed, in which we talk about it. The whole Top 5 whatever, that worked in a time in which the number of outlets that published that kind of thing was much more limited. Now, you can just do that on Twitter in 30 seconds.
drea
But there’s something, like, as you ment—as Morgan mentioned, one of my jobs is that I’ve programmed film festivals, which I’ve done for 20-some years. Which is curating, which is like, on paper a gatekeeper position. And so I’ve had to think about that for so long, of what that means, and what I’m doing and trying to like, both identify new talent and give them a leg up, but also thinking of the audiences, and the different festivals that I’ve worked for, and what maybe would be enriching for them, or brand new for them, but still, like, in their pocket. And having the access of the expertise of people, like that hands-on-ness of the record store. Like, the film festival is a version of that, but the passion, and the kind of, “Oh, there are these like, goblins that live in this place, and this all they do, and therefore I’m going to benefit from it.” But like you said, that’s lost when everyone imagines themself to be the same level of goblin. So it makes the true goblins turn into that one-upmanship of, it can’t even just be about, “Oh, I loved this.” It exacerbates the, “And I know every single thing about the Japanese imprint version of this,” or whatever. By the way, I don’t even really know what Japanese imprint means, so I’m really excited I got to use that in a sentence. [Oliver laughs.]
morgan
We’ll talk to you about it right after the show.
drea
Thank you. I feel cooler already.
music
“Lo Boob Oscillator” off the album High Fidelity by Stereolab. Upbeat, mid-tempo rock instrumental.
oliver
We’re gonna get into what, perhaps, has not aged quite as fine for this film, but let’s start with some positivity. Especially as the three of us have all revisited the film in prep for today, what stood out to you in terms of things that you actually really liked about it?
drea
For me, like I said, it was this, uh—the Rob thing aside, there was such a difference of going back, and I’m someone who every year more and more am noticing the female presence in films. And this is such a bro movie, and the space, the record store space, is so testosterone laden, um, that I was actually really happy to see that both Laura, who’s sort of this estranged girlfriend, um, and then her very passionate and defensive friend played by Joan Cusack, who has one of the best line deliveries ever. [Morgan repeats.] Ever! She’s just like so good. And even Lisa Bonet’s character, um, the musician, like he has this very casual one night stand. I was very worried and expecting to be upset by how the women were probably portrayed, and I was actually nicely surprised that there was a really nice well-roundedness to them. They had agency, and they had a full 360 humanhood to them.
morgan
Right. The same for me. I liked that he was in the house making break-up playlists, they had moved on. Like, I think—is that Lily Taylor? Is that her name?
drea
Oh my gosh, she was one of the ex-girlfriends he tracked down, yeah.
morgan
She’s great, and she’s like, “I met somebody else.” And I was in my apartment saying, “Period, point blank.” She didn’t say that, but I added that part. And I like that, like you said, the women had agency, they all made their own decisions in life.
drea
That is such a good point, I didn’t even mention the exes that he’s tracking down. Including Catherine Zeta-Jones in my #1 favorite Catherine Zeta-Jones role of all time. Charlie, the like, very up her own business, like, poser.
morgan
And music savvy! Because she’s in there, just, discussing Gene Simmons, and she said smart things, I’m like, “Yeah, gotcha.”
drea
Oh my God, this woman with her like—the sexy t-shirt, and the tousled hair, and the cigarette, and she’s just postulating. I was like, “Aw, I went to school with a girl like that, and man did I admire her, and man was she full of nonsense.” [Morgan laughs.]
oliver
I was struck by how much from the film had really influenced certain ways I thought about music and records, and I catalogued this. Number one, the strategy of making a mix-tape. And recently we’ve talked about this enough times in the show, and I think I probably might have actually cribbed—whenever we talked about those previous episodes, I think I might have taken my philosophy in those partly from what Rob talks about towards the end of the film, about how you start off a mixtape.
clip
Music: “I Believe (When I Fall In Love It Will Be Forever)” by Stevie Wonder. Rob: The making of a great compilation tape, why breaking up is hard to do, and takes ages longer than it might seem. You gotta kick it off with a killer, to grab attention. Then you gotta take it up a notch, but you don’t wanna blow your wad, so then you gotta cool it off a notch. There are a lot of rules.
oliver
Right, so you gotta start with two big ones, but then you gotta kinda pull back. you know, provide some tempo. Take a narrative journey for the listener. So that, I think I’ve adopted that, whether consciously or subconsciously over the years. I do feel self-conscious about the fact that I can catalogue my records alphabetically, because that seems really sensible, and I don’t know a better way to do it if I want to be able to find anything in the collection. But that point in the movie where Dick just so dismissively says, “Not alphabetically!” That—it hurts me! It hurts me in my soul every time I watch that scene. You know, I actually just used this next clip, I showed it for my students to talk about Bourdieu’s concept of cultural capital—people gotta remember, I’m a sociology professor, my day job—about the difference between what we like, versus what we are like.
clip
[Sound of crowd murmuring and footsteps in the background.] Speaker 1: A while back, Dick, Barry, and I agreed that what really matters is what you like, not what you are like. Books, records, films, these things matter. Call me shallow. It’s the fucking truth, and by this measure, I was having one of the best dates of my life. [Scene fades in with guitar strum.] Speaker 1: You love that show? Speaker 2: Yes! [Laughs and claps.] Speaker 1: Starring, um—starring, um—who starred in [inaudible]. Speaker 2: That’s right!
oliver
And there is something about the way in which we identify the people that we feel a kinship for. It doesn’t have to be similarities in our background, or similarities in other things, as long as we just like the same things. Like, that is a really solid foundation for, I think, most of my friendships in my life. So I thought, there is certainly wisdom in there. And then last but not least—and this is the music journalist side of me—it’s when you struggle to describe and artist, and you end up using a description like this.
clip
Speaker 1: Um, Marie De Salle’s playing. Remember, I told you about her today. I like her. She’s kind of Sheryl Crow-ish, crossed with a, um, post-Partridge Family, pre-L.A. Law Susan Dey kind of thing. But, you know, um, Black.
oliver
[Morgan and Drea laugh.] I may or may not have tried to describe many artists through that sort of assemblage at some point, I can’t say. So all those things kind of jumped out, like, “Wow, I actually really enjoyed a lot of the lines in here.” Maybe that’s Nick Hornsby or whoever adapted it?
drea
It’s definitely Nick Hornsby. Yeah, a lot of those are in the original, which was set in London, the book that it’s based on, and it’s funny, the small changes that’ll be made. In the references, so much of the music changed from the book to the movie? But I agree, it’s interesting because I remember in the re-watch the line about, um—the, “We are what we like, not…” Wait, I’m totally getting it wrong. [Laughs.]
oliver
No no, “We are what we like, not what we are like.”
drea
Yes! Yes! And I remember re-watching that, and thinking like, “Huh!” In some ways there’s a profound element to that, but in other ways, that’s really limiting. Because he’s, you know, he’s saying, “Call me sh—” Like, his response, “Call me shallow, but that’s the way it is!” And I’m like, “He’s in my head!” Because I was about to call him shallow! But it’s more the, um—there’s an assumption there, and maybe comes back to my, like, gatekeeper anxiety, but that implies that like, you are what you like, and what you like is finite and already exists. Rather than, you are what you like, and that can continue to evolve, and be informed by the people around you. Because—
oliver
I like that. I can roll with that. Well, let’s turn to the other side here, which is, sort of the ways in which the film sort of, maybe hasn’t aged all that well. And I think that really stood out to me—we all actually have already touched upon this. I was just thinking of it as, High Fidelity is sort of the Fight Club of romcoms. That both of them deal with this kind of just, very, very late 90’s early 00’s you know, Y2K vision on toxic masculinity, before we even had the language to talk about it. But this type of thing, when, again, when I was a guy in my 20’s, like those kind of films were like, “Woah, this is really cool,” and now looking back, it’s like, “This is a cringe fest. There is so much suspect shit in here.” And I wouldn’t really call Rob—he’s not necessarily a classic incel, but he is definitely incel-adjacent. Especially involving him and, I guess, Jennifer was Joelle’s character. The college sweetheart that wouldn’t put out, and that he just dismissed, and yeah, those parts were… [Oliver sucks air in through his teeth.]
drea
The complexity of his character is actually a good study for when you talk about the toxic nature—toxic masculinity as a phrasing is one of those things that’s like, generated like a magnet of just some terrible assumptions. But there is, there is—what he is putting out is really toxic, and in the sense that it’s just as harmful to him as it is to people around him. And I think so much of the discussion of that term, or that cultural concern sounds like—is just the criticism as it should be of specifically men who are putting out these standards, and judgements, and actions. But also, this thing of the entire journey of Rob’s character is, in this movie, is breaking free of this sort of very specific, masculine mindset that has kept him and his girlfriend and partner in this impasse of how they’re connecting and sharing. And I like the idea that if you look at this of him as an antihero at face value—not like looking back now just at, “Oh, this hasn’t aged well,” which is probably more the case. But, if you view it as, oh, no, he was always horrible, you were always meant to see that he starts out really horrible, and is becoming more human as he goes along.
morgan
Sure. I mean, he’s horrible in elementary school, right? He’s that guy. He never leaves being 14, which is why one of my favorite placements is that “I Want Candy”, because I think it’s such a metaphor for what he wants. He wants little kid stuff, he wants little kid relationships—
drea
And instant gratification.
morgan
That’s it. He wants things that taste good. Because I think he makes one comment about one of his babes, where he misses her, he misses how he tastes, and I was like, “Yeah. That’s ‘cause you want candy.”
music
“I Want Candy” off the album High Fidelity by Bow Wow Wow. Upbeat, fun new wave music. Gonna see you when the sun goes down Ain't no finer boy in town You're my guy you're what the doctor ordered So sweet you make my mouth water! I want candy! [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
I’m not saying that this was miscast, but I do think that this goes back to something, Drea, you were talking about earlier. It’s that Cusack. You know, Lloyd Dobler is one of the defining characters he’s ever played. And I feel like going into a film that you know—you don’t even have to know a lot about High Fidelity, but if you know that it’s a romantic comedy, you’re going to just assume the goodwill that we felt towards Lloyd Dobler carries over into Rob, even though Rob in a lot of ways is not, I mean—I won’t say diametrically opposed, but certainly nowhere near just a genuinely nice, generous human being.
drea
Can you imagine how much Rob would mock Lloyd Dobler? I mean.
oliver
Oh, totally! And so, I think, for me at least, I don’t think I paid attention to the fact that Rob’s a fucking asshole, even though he tells us! “I am an asshole!” He tells us this! [Morgan and Drea emphatically agree.] And yet, because we see John Cusack, we’re so used to him in a different role, we just have a hard time imagining him being an asshole. So, I’m wondering how this film might have been if they had cast someone else, that we would have had an easier time believing, “Oh yeah, that dude’s an asshole.”
morgan
If they had cast a more sympathetic character, it would have changed. I was—I spent most of the movie rooting for Dick. I was like, “Please let Dick, you know, win.” And when he hooked up with [She trails off laughing.]
drea
Sara Gilbert!
morgan
I was like “Yes, Dick!” I just wasn’t rooting for John. And I was sad at the end when that little girl got back together with him.
drea
I was too!
morgan
I was like, “You had—you were already gone! You were already gone, you got caught up in grief.”
drea
You were free! It took you fifteen visits to get your stuff out of his place! And now it’s all gonna come back!
morgan
How about that? How about that?
oliver
Does the line, “I’m too tired not to be with you” ring remotely true, because that did not—I liked a lot of the dialogue. That piece is like… nnnnnno.
morgan
So weird. I was with her when she was like, “I wanna think about something else but this.” I was like okay, I get it. Crisis bonding.
drea
Because this is when they hook up literally minutes after her father’s funeral and wake, yeah. [Distant wheezing can be heard from Morgan.] But that makes sense. Like, people often equate, like, death and sex. A lot of people—
oliver
The hookup is fine. The whole, like, “I actually want to go home with you, and I’m too tired not to be with you.” I’m just like, “Are you though?”
drea
Honestly, what I got from that, I believed that only in the sense that I’m like, “Oh, if where you currently are is living with Tim Robbins’ character?” [Oliver bursts out laughing.] “That does seem exhausting.” And it’s like, “Ooh, lesser of two evils.”
oliver
No respect for Ian.
morgan
Tim Robbins and the ponytail.
drea
You mean Ray? [Laughs.]
oliver
Ray.
drea
Tim Robbins' amazing character.
oliver
That might be one of my—my favorite Tim Robbins character role of all time.
drea
It’s so good. It’s so good.
morgan
Out of all of his roles? No Shawshank?
oliver
Whatever. Bull Durham, whatever. It’s all about Ian/Rob. Roy. Roy, sorry. Yeah.
morgan
You know, one thing that I wanted to say before we move away from it, and I don’t know if you brought it up. But one thing that I thought that the film—that was so funny looking at the film last night was, in that time where in the 2000’s, you’ve got these three vinyl collectors, and then vinyl went away, and now vinyl’s back. So watching it now, you know, I’ve just worked on something called Vinyl Nation, and Oliver knows that, Oliver’s in that, and it’s all about the resurgence of vinyl and how these collectors, and these people that pressed up records thought they were done, because people weren’t into vinyl. We got beat by CDs and streaming and all that, and now it’s back. So these guys are cool again. They were very cool for a minute, and then they weren’t, no one was collecting vinyl, and now it’s like a thing that you tell people. “Well, I’m a vinyl only DJ,” or “I’ve got a collection.” So, to see that change just in 20 years. Big deal.
drea
I like on the movie level of it, that those guys went from being the High Fidelity cool guys, to the Steve Buscemi character in Ghost World. Right? And now it’s like—
morgan
Right. Exactly. Exactly him. Now they’re cool again.
drea
Still just as passionate! For the record, Steve Buscemi in Ghost World is way hotter to me than Rob Gordon in High Fidelity. I’d just like to say that, for the—yeah.
morgan
Right, his character was great. Yeah, his character was great.
oliver
Speaking of other casting here, was this peak Jack Black? Because I’m not sure there’s another role that I like from him better. I’ve not seen the Jumanji remakes, so maybe that.
drea
He’s great in those! Did you not see School of Rock?
oliver
[Hushed] I never liked School of Rock. [Morgan and Drea respond emphatically.] I feel like School of Rock was him taking this character—
drea
They were very similar, yeah.
oliver
Very similar, making it a little more family friendly. But I prefer—I prefer his Barry over his character in School of Rock.
morgan
Um, I liked him in School of Rock. To me, he was a little obnoxious here.
crosstalk
Oliver: [Laughing] A little! Drea: A little! You’re sweet. [Laughs.]
morgan
A little obnoxious. A little obnoxious. How he dealt with my man that came into the record store, terrible.
oliver
The disrespect to Stevie Wonder.
morgan
The disrespect to Stevie Wonder, and then the end, I was like, “Not you and Marvin Gaye. Not you and let’s get it on.”
drea
Don’t forget, he did a whole dismissive thing towards uh, Lionel, right? The guy came in just to get Hello, didn’t he?
oliver
No, it was to get Stevie Wonder—
morgan
For his daughter, yeah.
drea
Oh, I thought it was Lionel Richie, Hello.
oliver
No, it was Stevie Wonder, yeah.
drea
Okay, so that’s why I was like, “Stevie Wonder, I don’t remember that.”
morgan
And then for them to end credits with Stevie Wonder, I was like, “You owe Stevie Wonder an apology.”
crosstalk
Oliver: Maybe that was the apology. Drea: That was—exactly! That was the apology! Morgan: Maybe.
oliver
Lowkey, I actually kind of agree with him, it’s kind of—it’s a terrible Stevie song.
morgan
What?!
oliver
Not the one that they ended the film with, “I Just Called to Say I Love You”. [Morgan and Drea agree.] No disrespect to Stevie! It’s just not his best. It’s not Innervisions, it’s not Songs in the Key of Life, let’s just put it that way. Last thing I wanna say about casting, and y’all can feel free to add hear, Laura’s played by—and I never realized this, I spent a lot of time in IMDB with this film—was played by a Danish actress, who I’ve never seen in anything else beside this. I guess she had a role in Defiance, which I don’t remember her, at all. And, I’m gonna butcher this, because I don’t speak Danish at all, Iben Hjejle? And, really interesting that—and I don’t remember how big of a film, or how big of a deal of a film this was when it first came out—but this is a really prominent role for someone who is not a well known actor in the United States, for her to have landed that.
morgan
Sure. Isn’t John Cusack—didn’t he co-produce this? So he didn’t just start it—
drea
He did, yeah. His production arm did this. But it was Stephen Frears who pushed for Iben’s casting.
morgan
Okay, that’s what I was gonna ask, who pushed it.
drea
He—I think he’d seen her in a small Danish film and was struck. And it’s funny, because my best friend Miranda has always been wiser than I am, because you should always surround yourself with people with more wisdom. She thought that the woman who played Laura, the character was so wonderful, and I remember—and I think it may be because I was like, “Why is this not a star?” Like, part of me just felt even at that stage, I wanted to see another recognizable face. And again, in revisiting it, I’m like, “Oh, this woman brings so much depth, and warmth, and realism, and human emotion.” She’s doing such emotional heavy lifting, especially because she’s bouncing off the sort of emotionally infantile man.
morgan
Child boy. Yeah. I love the casting of Lisa Bonet, too. I thought that character was, like—you forgive the Peter Frampton, ‘cause I don’t like that song. I don’t like that jam.
oliver
But like, the folks in the film. I don’t generally like the Frampton original, kinda liked it when Lisa Bonet was performing.
morgan host
Oh my God. That was fire! That was fire.
drea
Those judgemental nerds watching her, and just like melting at the knees. I’m like, “Yes.” She’s—the woman wears a cowboy hat. Like, a woven cowboy hat. And I think she’s wearing a Canadian tuxedo, like double denim. Like, she makes the impossible work. It’s really… what a credit.
clip
“Baby, I Love Your Way” off the album High Fidelity by Lisa Bonet Ooh baby I love your way Want to tell you I love your way Want to be with you night and day Speaker 1: I always hated that song. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Not gonna like it.
oliver
They speak for all of us, in that moment.
morgan
They—yo, but she makes—I mean, and you believe Lisa Bonet is also in a band, and she’s also all that stuff, right? She’s so cool that when they put that Bob Dylan “Tonight I’ll Be Staying Here With You”—and I’m not a fan of that jam either—I was just like, “So what? It all works. Everything’s cool right now.”
drea
I will s—my one, like, not disapproval of the Marie De Salle character, but to me, it pointed out—or put in high relief, there are so few female songwriters in this film represented by like, all the people they’re name checking, and in the soundtrack itself. And even the song we really get from her is a cover of Peter Frampton. And the idea of that in 2000, maybe we’re afforded to not have to address that, and look into that, but now, to me, it stands out so much. When you look at the whole—especially the official soundtrack, because obviously, there are so many needle drops in that that are not going to make the actual soundtrack. And so, what they’re doing, what they’re like, honing in on, it’s funny because it rightfully matches Rob, most of all, because that’s the voice we’re following. But it does make it even more apparent the voices you’re not hearing.
morgan
Right, and where you place them. Because you put Ann Peebles, and then also—
drea
And I put the white artists with that, as well.
morgan
—right, and Aretha Franklin, that “Rock Steady”, which I thought, “You must have had a hell of a budget, because I never would have put her in the background. That would have been featured use.” Yeah. The “Rock Steady”, and the Ann Peebles, you know. But I have to—I haven’t met Cathy Nelson, but when I do, I’m gonna be like, “You gotta tell me what the money was for this one. You gotta give that—give up the duckets, Cathy Nelson!”
oliver
We will be back with more of our conversation with Drea Clarke about High Fidelity after a brief wod from some of our sibling Max Fun podcasts. Keep it locked.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs
promo
[The sound of radio static punctuates the conversation, overlaid by a distant, ringing note.] Rocket Ship One: Mission control, this is rocket ship one. Come in mission control. Mission Control: This is mission control. Go ahead. Rocket Ship One: We have incoming and it looks big. Mission Control: Can you identify? Rocket Ship One: It looks like—[the beep of electronics] some sort of pledge drive. Affirmative. It’s MaxFun Drive. [The clicking of a keyboard.] Mission Control: That’s a verified MaxFun Drive. Countdown to MaxFun Drive is initiated. Can you project a time to intercept? Rocket Ship One: Based on the current trajectory, MaxFun Drive will be here from March 16 to March 27. [The clicking of a keyboard.] Mission Control: March 16 to March 27, Rodger. Rocket ship one, can you confirm a visual on common MaxFun Drive phenomena, such as the best episodes of the year? Bonus content and special gifts for new and upgrading monthly members? [The beeping of an electronic readout.] Rocket Ship One: We have a visual. Great episodes, bonus content, premium gifts confirmed. And more. It sure sounds quiet down there. Mission control, what’s your status? Mission Control: All systems go, rocket ship one! Just catching up on our favorite MaxFun shows so we can tune into MaxFun Drive episodes between March 16 and March 27. Over and out. [The clicking stutter of communication being cut off.]
promo
Ben: Alright, Adam. Maximum Fun wants us to record like, a promo to tell people that they should listen to The Greatest Generation. You want to do that? Adam: No! I am tired of all the extra work. I just want to talk about Star Trek with my friend. Ben: I think it—it would be good to like, try and get some new listeners by appealing to the audiences of other shows, like this—this will only take a minute or two. It could be good for us. Adam: We sit down for an hour every week and talk about a Star Trek episode and make a bunch of idiotic fart jokes about it. It’s embarrassing. If it got out that we made this show, I think it would make us unemployable. Ben: Adam, I—I have bad news for you. We have tens of thousands of listeners at MaximumFun.org. Adam: Oh, my God. I think I’m gonna throw up. Ben: The Greatest Generation, a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast. Every Monday on MaximumFun.org. Adam: I’m really gonna be sick.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs
morgan
Yo, and we’re back on Heat Rocks. We’re talking High Fidelity, 2000, the soundtrack, we’re talking with Drea Clark, let’s get it.
oliver
With some of the other films that we’ve talked about in this series, I paid a lot of attention to what the official soundtrack was. And for reasons that I can’t completely explain, High Fidelity is a case where I had very little interest in the official soundtrack, because the music—as we were talking about in the first half—in the film is in a lot of ways so much more compelling. And obviously there’s overlap, but—but there’s like so many songs in the film, you know, they’re not going to be able to—they’re not gonna put like a quadruple compilation for it. Again, I’m not trying to disrespect the OST, but like, Ann Peebles is not on there. You don’t have, uh—Aretha Franklin is not on there. I don’t need to hear “Rock Steady” again. But there are so many great moments in the film that just don’t make it onto the official soundtrack, and I kind of found myself looking at the soundtrack, like, “Well, this is okay, I guess.”
morgan
Yup. I know it’s a different set of rights once you go to clearing stuff for the soundtrack, and they were probably like, “You spent everything on these needle drops. You ain’t got nothing left over.” De La Soul we know for obvious reasons probably couldn't get on there. Is Bob Dylan on there?
drea
He is! And that’s actually one of—
morgan
Which one?
drea
Most of the time. And that is why it is one of my favorite weird inclusions in this, and in the movie at all. Because the idea of a film—especially that it’s so 60’s heavy, for a lot of it. The idea—and it is a big emotional beat, it is right after the funeral that we’ve talked about, and Rob was like wandering in the rain, and the song comes on, and it’s Bob’s voice, which is so iconic and recognizable. And then you’re listening, and you’re like, “How do I not know this?” And then it’s, “Oh, because it’s a Bob Dylan song from like 1990, or something.”
morgan
Was that “Most of the Time”? “Most of the Time”, yeah.
drea
Yeah. To me, it was just a funny choice of, out of all of the Bob Dylan that you’re gonna bring, out of all of the like, flex, you’re gonna go with “This Night”? I just found that—I love that. For some reason it tickles me.
music
“Most of the Time” off the album High Fidelity by Bob Dylan. Slow, mournful music. And I can endure And I don't even think About her Most of the time [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
It’s not a—it’s not a bad bop.
drea
And you can hear the rain, right?
oliver
What I wanna know is—and I’ve never lived in Chicago, I don’t know if either of you have spent quality time in Chicago—does it rain so goddamn much in Chicago? [Drea laughs.]
morgan
Yo. Now that type of rain, that rain was Old Testament rain. [Drea laughs louder.]
oliver
I swear to God, every other scene Rob’s in, it is raining cats and dogs, and it’s like, “Is this in Seattle? I’m so confused right now. Like, what’s going on with all this freakin’ rain?”
morgan
That had to be some sort of—
drea
I like to think that it was just, like, that character on Peanuts, that it wasn’t actually raining in Chicago, there was just a cloud that followed Rob around. [Morgan and Oliver agree.]
oliver
I want to get to the music that’s actually in the film, but someone out a lot of time and expense into making the OST, so I’m gonna throw them a nod. We talked about the Bob Dylan song, the favorite track off of this, just the soundtrack itself, so independent of how it gets used in the film. I really liked “Oh Sweet Nuthin’”, by The Velvet Underground. And I’ve never really sat a lot with The Velvet Underground, and this was—this is kind of a jam, like, I’m here for blues-y, slightly funky, folky rock. And that—this hits all of those beats.
music
“Oh Sweet Nuthin’” off the album High Fidelity by The Velvet Underground. Slow rock. Say a word for Jimmy Brown He ain't got nothing at all Not a shirt right of his back [Music fades out as Drea speaks]
drea
I love that bass line, it’s just not joking around.
oliver
It’s great. Oh, it’s so good. Morgan, how about you, is there something about the soundtrack where you’re like, “Alright, this is kind of fire”?
morgan
Um, I like The Kinks. “Everybody’s Gonna Be Happy”.
music
“Everybody’s Gonna Be Happy” off the album High Fidelity by The Kinks. Fast, upbeat music. Cause I know, I know. Come on baby let me tell you All the things I wanna say Come on baby let me tell you [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Drea.
drea
Interestingly, mine actually made the cut. Um, the “You’re Gonna Miss Me” right at the very beginning?
morgan
Yes. 13th Floor Elevators!
drea
Right! Like, it’s such a great—you know, one of those things you want from a song in a movie is a portal into your character’s head. And it’s—it sets a tone in terms of coolness, it sets a tone in terms of energy. But it’s also, like, you listen to the lyrics, and it’s this mopey, projecting, like, ”It’s all you, not me!” And it’s—I was like, “Ah, that’s just. What a concise character choice.”
oliver
And I’ll say this much, I am a sucker for any film that opens with someone playing a record. And you know they’re playing a record, because you can hear the needle hit the opening groove, which is what they do on here.
music
“You’re Gonna Miss Me” off the album High Fidelity by 13th Floor Elevators. Mid-tempo, upbeat rock with vocalizations in the background. Music plays for several moments before fading out.
oliver
As always, I’m gonna go with the most obvious, basic choice. It’s gotta be the Beta Band scene.
drea
Oh, it’s so good.
morgan
Beta Band!
clip
[Guitar strums in background.] Speaker 1: I will now sell five copies of the three EPs by the Beta Band. Speaker 2: Good. [Tape clicks.] Music: “Dry the Rain” off the album High Fidelity by The Beta Band If there's something inside that you want to say Say it out loud it'll be okay I will be your light I will be your light I will be your light I will be your light If there's something inside that you want to say Say it out loud it'll be okay I will be your light I will be your light I will be your light I will be your light Speaker 3: Who is that? Speaker 4: The Beta Band. Speaker 3: It’s good. Speaker 4: I know.
oliver
As noted, I have spent many, many, many a time in record stores. And I might have been Beta Band-ed by the biter on many occasions. I’m not gonna admit how often, but.
morgan
Confession is good for the soul, you already know.
oliver
Right. And the thing is, I have—so, I’ve spent a lot of my 2000’s at a record store in San Francisco, my favorite record store on the planet, Groove Merchant. And, because I spent so much time there, Cool Chris, who runs the place, would let me behind the counter. And so, sometimes I got to pick something to play out there, just because he’s busy doing other stuff. And, I have never, ever, in all the years that I have gotten to man the turntables in the store, I’ve never Beta Band-ed anybody. Like, everything I played, I’m like, “I’m gonna sell this record for Chris right now.” That shit never happened for me.
drea
Oh, you did it with the intent of like, being helpful to someone.
oliver
I wanted to be like, you know, “This song is fire, I’m gonna play it, someone in the store is gonna be like, ‘What’s that?’” Never happened to me once. [Drea laughs.]
morgan
That’s alright.
oliver
I mean, I don’t have Rob’s touch, apparently.
morgan
Or sweaters, okay. Your sweaters are real crisp.
drea
But she thanks you for that, yeah.
morgan
Yes, indeed.
oliver
Other parts of this film that you really got into musically? And I do just love the fact that almost every scene has some sort of song playing somewhere. And you may not always pay deep attention to it, but just as sonic texture. It really does, I think, a really nice job. So, you mentioned who the music director was a moment ago?
morgan
Cathy Nell. Shoutout to Cathy Nell.
oliver
Shoutout to her, because I thought, exemplary job.
morgan
Absolutely. And I did like the moment when Rob decides that he’s going to produce the band’s first single, and produce their album.
oliver
Kinky Wizards.
morgan
Kinky Wizards. Because it was one of the moments where it’s like, “We’re all gonna come to that point, where you get turned on by one of the youths, and you have to go on and give them their props, and here’s this crusty older dude that’s like, ‘Okay, you guys are dope.’”
drea
And all of them are annoyed that it’s a good album. That like, they go to play the song, or—he walks in, Dick and Barry are playing it, and he’s like, “Who is this?” And they are so glum to admit that it’s the annoying skateboarding duo who’s been thieving from them.
clip
[Song plays in background.] Speaker 1: What is this? Speaker 2: It’s Vince and Justin. Speaker 1: Who’s Vince and Justin? Speaker 2: It’s those little skate fuckers. Speaker 1: No way. Speaker 2: Way. Speaker 1: It’s really… it’s really fucking good.
drea
I love that. I actually think that because this, in a very small way, like it culminates the way many music films do with the concert. But it’s the small concert that’s just like, him DJing, and then um, I love it because we see Barry being super obnoxious, and super aggressive the whole time. And then it’s kind of a seed is planted in the middle—in the end of act two, where some long haired guy comes in and is like, “Yeah, I have a band, you wanna come sing?” And they’re like, “Yeah, yeah, I’ll come.” And he’s apparently had this sign up forever. And so, then he’s gonna play Sight On Scene, and like, we know Jack Black, and that he can sing, but I don’t think when I originally saw this, I would have known that. [Oliver agrees.] And so, there’s this apprehension, and then Barry and his band show up, and they’re gonna start—and you’re like, “What, what could this possibly be? This man has been so arrogant and cruel about everyone else’s choices.” And then yes, he starts singing Marvin Gaye, and like, with, like… love. Like, he—as much as he gives the, like, white man veneer to it, he’s like, “I love this song.”
music
“Let’s Get It On” off the album High Fidelity by Jack Black. Slow, grooving music. There's nothing wrong with me Loving you, baby, no, no And giving yourself to me can never be wrong If the love is true [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Drea, if you had to describe this film, and the music for it, in three words, how would you roll?
drea
Mm… I would say witty. I think that there’s a nice sense of wit to it. And that actually transcends the music choices as well. Um, emotional. Whether or not those emotions are rightfully placed, or headed in the correct direction.
morgan
Yeah, no. No, it is. It is.
drea
There’s a lot of emotions going on, this is in a very pop music kind of way. Um, and “dude”. [Oliver laughs.] There’s a lot of, you know, like it or not, we may be meeting all of the exes, and a lot of women, this is a lot of “dude”. This movie. Yeah.
music
“I Believe (When I Fall In Love It Will Be Forever)” off the album High Fidelity by Stevie Wonder. Mid-tempo, melodic, romantic music with multilayered vocals. I believe when I fall in love with you it will be forever, I believe when I fall in love this time it will be forever [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
Normally, we would end this episode by asking for—going around the horn and asking for people’s recommendations for the next viewing and listening. But because today’s episode marks the end of our “Music and Popcorn” series—Morgan, I thought this would work really well. I would love to bring this back next year.
morgan
Yeah, this was great. Shout-out.
oliver
Um, I wanted to throw this out instead. I wanted to go around the horn, and each of us talk about one or two of your favorite left-field, or lesser known, more obscure uses of pop music in a film. I spoke about—so for mine, I spoke about this briefly during our episode about Juice, with Sean Fennesy. And while I’ve never loved Spike Lee’s weird signature dolly cam-shot that he uses in every film, the one time where I’m like “I’m actually kind of feeling this” is in Clockers. And it’s during this very climactic scene, where one of the main characters who’s this young boy, he’s on this BMX, and he’s about to shoot someone. And in the background, as he’s peddling towards the camera on this dolly cam, they drop in KRS-One’s “Outta Here”. And outside of “Do the Right Thing”, and Rosie Perez dancing to “Public Enemy”, this is probably one of my favorite Spike Lee musical cues, is just hearing “Outta Here” with that dolly cam shot.
music
“Outta Here” off the album Clockers by KRS-One. Fast-paced rap. Do you ever think about when you outta here? Record deal and video outta here? Mercedes Benz and Range Rover outta here? No doubt BDP is old school, but we ain't goin' out! [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
Two of my favorite moments come from, uh, The Lost Boys. One of them is Echo and the Bunnymen, “People are Strange”, when they roll into the ‘hood, and I’m like, “Oh, man. Somebody’s gonna die.” [Oliver laughs.]
music
“People Are Strange” off the album The Lost Boys by Echo and the Bunnymen. Mid-tempo rock. People are strange when you're a stranger Faces look ugly when you're alone Women seem wicked when you're unwanted Streets are uneven when you're down [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]
morgan
And then the second one is… Haim, when Haim’s in the bathtub, and he’s singing that Clarence “Frogman“ Henry, “I Ain’t Got No Home.” Because, he is going to go through leaving that place and coming back to that place a bunch of times, so those are two of my favorites.
music
“Ain’t Got No Home” by Clarence 'Frogman' Henry. Up-tempo swing. ... got no home No place to roam I'm a lonely boy I ain't got a home [Music fades out as Drea speaks]
drea
I’m excited that now I get two, because it was very difficult for me. Um, one of them was in Wes Craven’s Scream, out of nowhere, it’s like, the town is on lockdown, and freaking Nick Cave’s “Red Right Hand” starts playing. And it is like—you’re like, “Oh my God. I would have never thought of this song.” But it’s so ominous, it has that bell in it, and it’s like people walking around, and they’re like, shuddering, like there’s a curfew on the town. But it’s so cool, it makes the movie cooler to have it like, that’s honestly my introduction to Nick Cave.
clip
Music: “Red Right Hand” off the album Scream by Nick Cave You're one microscopic cog In his catastrophic plan Designed and directed by His red right hand Speaker 1: Sure is quiet. Speaker 2: God, look at this place. It’s the town the dreaded sundown. Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that movie. It’s about a killer in Texas, huh?
drea
But the other that I will always love because it was used so well, and to me it was genuinely unexpected, was—speaking of dude movies—was the end of Fight Club, when everything is about to blow up, and we’ve, you know, gone through this whole journey. And then we start to hear a sound, and then you’re like, “Oh, snap, is that The Pixies?” And then, “Where Is My Mind” starts playing, and it’s that keening oo-oo coming in, and then you just see these— [Oliver mimics snare drums.] Oh, my God, the drum coming in—and buildings in the background start blowing up, and like—and they’re just—it’s Ed Norton and Helena Bonham Carter, and they’re just beaten, and they just hold hands. It’s so ama—because, what a haunting song. It’s the song that starts haunting, and turns into just like a freaking great tune. And it’s such a good moment.
clip
Music: “Where is my Mind” by The Pixies The Narrator: Marla, look at me. I’m really okay. Trust me. Everything’s gonna be fine. [Explosions in the distance.]
oliver
My second one—and this is probably by far the most obscure mentioned here. I’m not saying this to preen by any means. Because it is, to me, the greatest Asian-American film ever made, it’s also the first one ever made, which is 1982’s Chan is Missing by Wayne Wang. And there’s a scene that takes place in a senior center near Chinatown in San Francisco, and they're playing the Los Lobos version of an absolute Spanish language ballad classic, which is “Sabor a Mí”, which I think is originally a Cuban ballad. And I distinctly remember the use of it in that film is absolutely perfect. It was my introduction to “Sabor a Mí”, and it’s a song that, if I come across it in any other record by any other artist, I usually will probably cop it, because I love it so much.
music
“Sabor a Mí” off the album Chan is Missing by Los Lobos. Mid-tempo bolero. Tanto tiempo disfrutamos este amor Nuestras almas se acercaron tanto asi Que yo guardo tu sabor Como tu llevas tambien [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]
oliver
That will do it for this episode of Heat Rocks with our special guest Drea Clark. You can of course catch her on Max Fun’s own Who Shot Ya? Drea, what else are you working on right now?
morgan
I hope you’re working on a mixtape.
drea
I’m working—mostly I’m concentrating on this mixtape, which I’m making for Morgan.
oliver
Gotta start with two fire tracks, and then you gotta kinda ease.
drea
I hear I have to go—let it temper down. And then let it get a little weird, and bring it—yeah. Um, like obviously, I’ve been putting years of thought into this.
oliver
Into this compilation tape that you’re making for Morgan.
drea
Yes. Um, I’m currently programming Bentonville Festival, which is founded by Gina Davis, and takes place beginning of May, and focuses on films—primarily films by and featuring women, people of color, and queer stories. Um, artists with disabilities. The idea is inclusion in all media. But it’s really fun, some great films.
oliver
Where is that?
drea
Um, Bentonville, Arkansas. Not to brag, Arkansas, what’s up! Yeah, it’s great.
oliver
And where can people find you on the socials?
drea
People can find me sporadically, on Twitter @TheDreaClark, and um, I love reading things, so please send me recommendations of articles or songs, because I’m assuming the people that listen are big song people. I love music recommendations.
oliver
You’ve been listening to Heat Rocks with me, Oliver Wang, and Morgan Rhodes.
morgan
Our theme music is “Crown Ones” by Thes One of People Under The Stairs. Shoutout to Thes for the hookup.
oliver
Heat Rocks is produced by myself and Morgan, alongside Christian Dueñas, who also edits, engineers, and does the booking for our shows.
morgan
Our senior producer is Laura Swisher, and our executive producer is Jesse Thorn.
oliver
We are part of the Maximum Fun family, taping every week live in their studios in the West Lake neighborhood of Los Angeles, where maybe you might unironically knock boots to Barry White. Though, probably not Morgan, right?
morgan
You know what?
oliver
She’s not feeling that. We want to thank all of our five star iTunes reviewers, including BillChill22 who wrote, “It’s lit! Sit back and get lost in the fire tracks.” BillChill22 actually wrote a whole hook for us, but you all need to go to iTunes to see the full majesty of those bars. We had CalGal27, a self-described “cornerstone fan” of the podcast— [Morgan responds emphatically.] I like that term, cornerstone fan—who wrote to say that they “learn something new every episode.” So do we. So if you have not had a chance yet, please do consider leaving us a review. It is such a import way that new listeners can find their way to our little, humble podcast.
morgan
Amen, and we also want to thank our social media fans and family, including the following. Want to thank KKBracken, that was into the Bodyguard episode with April Wolfe. We also want to thank Chris Molanphy for the shout-out, we do appreciate that. Lost in Williamsburg, always holding us down. Jeb Gavin. We also want to thank Warmer Disco. I just laugh when I say that. Top Stitch Girl. A mut… action figure. You just wanted me to curse on air. [Oliver laughs.] ‘Cause you know my mother’s listening. Um, bleep that out. Bleep that out, Christian. Sadett The Mad Gorgon. We also want to thank Carl Wilson, Rob Milton, as always forholding us down. And finally, we want to thank Joss Janks. We do so appreciate the tweezies and the retweezies. Good to see you, Oliver.
oliver
Good to see you too, Morgan. And real quick, you just mentioned Chris Molanphy gave us some love, and on his most recent episode of the Hit Parade podcast that he does for Slates podcast family, he just did a whole thing about Whitney. So, by coincidence, our Bodyguard episode came out around the same time as his episode all about Whitney. So, for fans of our show, please do check out Chris’ Hit Parade.
morgan
For sure.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—Audience supported.
About the show
Hosted by Oliver Wang and Morgan Rhodes, every episode of Heat Rocks invites a special guest to talk about a heat rock – a hot album, a scorching record. These are in-depth conversations about the albums that shape our lives.
Our guests include musicians, writers, and scholars and though we don’t exclusively focus on any one genre, expect to hear about albums from the worlds of soul, hip-hop, funk, jazz, Latin, and more.
New episodes every Thursday on Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts.
Subscribe to our website updates for exclusive bonus content (including extra interview segments, mini-episodes, etc.)
Meanwhile, you can email us at heatrockspod@gmail.com or follow us on social media:
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