TRANSCRIPT Heat Rocks: Music and Popcorn #4: April Wolfe on “The Bodyguard” soundtrack (1992)

music

“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs

oliver

Hello, I’m Oliver Wang.

morgan

And I’m Morgan Rhodes. You’re listening to Heat Rocks. Today’s episode is part of the Music and Popcorn miniseries, where a guest joins us to talk about iconic movies and their soundtracks, and today, we’ll be dodging crazed fans and determined hitmen to talk about the 1992 film and soundtrack for The Bodyguard.

music

“Run To You” off the album The Bodyguard by Whitney Houston. Slow, melodic singing and tender instrumentals. I know that when you look at me There's so much that you just don't see But if you would only take... [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]

morgan

Well, let’s start with the facts. The Bodyguard is the best-selling soundtrack of all time, with 45 million copies sold worldwide, making it the fifteenth best-selling album in US history. Its release in 1992, courtesy of Arista Records, earned all the ra-ra. Eight American music awards, 11 Billboard Music awards, a Juno and a Brit, and three Grammys, including Album of the Year, an award won by only a handful of black artists: Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Lionel Ritchie, Herbie Hancock, Quincy Jones, and only two other black women: Natalie Cole in 1992 for Unforgettable, and Lauryn Hill for The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. The Oscar was the one that got away. That year, it went to Tim Rice and Alan Menken for Aladdin’s “A Whole New World.” Bodyguard, the film and soundtrack, was a whole new world for Whitney Houston. Top billing, the lead in a role Kevin Costner had waited two years for her to be available for, a role originally intended for Diana Ross alongside Steve McQueen. Acclaim, a People’s Choice award for her acting, and a host of new records achieved. Best this, first that, most this, most that. Add to that the distinction of an 18 million times platinum track listing, and a 411 million dollar flex, what’s bigger? What’s better than that? As the saying goes, “icons do icon-ish,” and The Bodyguard soundtrack say Whitney Houston covering two iconic songs. Housing up 1978 and Shaka’s iconic mantra “I’m Every Woman” and reimagining Dolly Parton’s 1974 “I Will Always Love You.” Arguably the best 47-second acapella opener ever press to wax, which evolved into the iconic four-minute-and-forty-one-seconds ever pressed to wax, as the 2 million people who bought it would agree. Like other hit songs from hit soundtracks, Titanic’s “My Heart Will Go On,” Purple Rain’s “Purple Rain,” Saturday Night Fever’s “Staying Alive,” Dirty Dancing’s “I Had the Time of my Life,” this song hit different. And while there are so many words to describe this soundtrack—and believe me, more eloquent folks have written them all—different is the word that always comes to mind when I think of it.

morgan

Across 13 tracks, Whitney Houston showed us that her range was different. In “I Have Nothing”, she showed us that her runs were different. In “Run to You” and “Jesus Loves Me”, she showed us that her register was different. And with five chart-murdering singles, she showed us that her reach was different. If only her story had been different. More like the time when the queen of the night was king for a day. For weeks, and the months after the soundtrack dropped, when middle America and Black America both loved her, and the airwaves loved her, when her instrument was so pure. When all she needed to keep her safe was a bodyguard. But for a moment in 1992, she was everybody’s everything. Just wish that love was all it took to save the day.

music

[“Run To You” plays again.] I want to run to you (ooh) But if I come to you (ooh) Tell me, will you stay or will you run away?

oliver

The Bodyguard was the movie and soundtrack pick of our guest today, April Wolfe. [Morgan affirms.] When Morgan and I first cooked up the Music and Popcorn idea, April immediately came to mind, since she has been the queen of Max Fun movie podcasts with her own Switchblade Sisters show, and she was formerly co-host for Who Shot Ya. A former movie critic with the LA Weekly and Village Voice, these days, April doesn’t just write about movies. She’s also writing movies, including this past winter’s horror flick, Black Christmas, which she co-wrote alongside director Sophia Takal. April, welcome to Heat Rocks.

april

Hi! Hi, it’s great to be here.

oliver

Keeping it in the family today. I like that. [Morgan affirms.] Why The Bodyguard?

april

Okay— [Everyone laughs.]

oliver

Let’s just go in.

april

Alright, so, um, you know, set the stage of just being a kid in the 90s, loving Whitney Houston, growing up being like—I mean, in the 90s, it was just everything was her. She was every woman, and—

oliver

I see what you just did there. It’s all in her.

april

Yeah, I know. And, uh, I think, you know, sometimes you will forget how big of a star Kevin Costner was at that time, too. [Morgan and Oliver affirm.] He was huge, he was powerful, and this was such a weird team-up. You know, I remember when it was announced, I was just like “what is this?” And it kind of felt—and I’m sure we’ll get into this—that Whitney Houston was kind of taking this next step in her career, and we were like, “Okay, we need to get into this.” ‘Cause it felt in the same way that, like, Madonna would release a new concept kind of album, right? [Oliver affirms.] But this was like, “Oh, this is something very different that we haven’t seen yet,” and so it just felt so exciting, and I just needed to see it in the theatre. And I don’t remember the movie, like, when—you know, from that time at all, but I remember the soundtrack. You could not forget the soundtrack. You could not escape it. And it was—I honestly kinda don’t remember the tracks that aren’t Whitney Houston? [Oliver affirms.] And then when I play them back, “Oh, yeah, that’s right. I totally forgot about that.”

oliver

There’s reasons why you might forget the songs not by Whitney on the soundtrack. [Morgan and April affirm.] We’ll get into that. Morgan, I’m gonna designate you as the resident Houston-ologist in the room here. Can you put into context, where was Whitney at this point in ‘92? I mean, her career had already been ten years old, minimum, and was already at superstar, so where does this film fit into the trajectory of where Whitney was going and had been?

morgan

Well, I think she was definitely made, as we said. She—she was made. Um, she had already had a series of hits, she was already reigning supreme. I think done—I think she had just done the “Star Spangled Banner,” that was 1991, so Whitney couldn’t be touched. Like we already knew what Whitney could do, uh, with a song, and her image was still pretty pristine. There was such an innocence about her, which I think lent itself to the—to this role, although she came across-and I’m gonna get into this a little bit later, as a star on the edge, right? [Oliver affirms.] But I think the decision to go—not to take anything away from Diana Ross, but I think Whitney Houston probably—had it been today, this would be Beyoncé. [April affirms.] Like, no question, right? Same sort of trajectory, same sort of rise. All the albums have been hits, she’d had a complete—a slew of number one singles, like, a slew of number one singles, a hit album before this, so she was primed and ready. Was she ready to take on an acting role? That remains to be seen, okay? We know what the—we know what the critics said. But, I think, because of the way a lot of 90s movies were, it was just about image and she didn’t—it didn’t require her to be a great actress. She was a great, huge star. And that’s what this film needed. She couldn’t be touched. [Oliver and April affirm.] And I don’t know that there would’ve been a close second to play this role, besides Whitney.

oliver

This was my first time watching the film, and I had never really done a deep dive into anything about it outside of knowing, “Yes, it’s got Whitney and it’s got Kevin, it’s got the best selling soundtrack of all time.” I didn’t realize that Lawrence Kasdan wrote it? [Morgan affirms.] And of course, for me, as—in the generation that I am, I just associate him with Empire Strikes Back, and this was something that he wrote, I believe, around 1975? And to go back to something that Morgan had said earlier, it was originally meant to be a vehicle for Diana Ross, who would have played the same role as Whitney, and I’ve heard different actors in Costner’s role? You had mentioned Brian O’Neal, and I had heard Steve McQueen. [Morgan affirms.] All of which kinds of makes, like—Kevin Costner sort of fits into it in a vague way. That kind of casting, that kind of look, sort of personality—and we’ll get into the sort of the qualities of the film, as craft. But I think the basic bones of the idea, I think, work pretty well. Like a basic story of, there’s a superstar, and there’s someone’s trying to kill her, we don’t know who, and there’s a bodyguard assigned, and there’s some kind of romantic sexual tension. Like that works on paper, it’s like a—an elevator pitch. [Morgan affirms.] And so it surprises me that this film wasn’t made, in some version, sooner, because especially when you pick up on all the thrillers coming out of the 70s and 80s, this kind of basic storyline, you would think, would make a perfect kind of film.

morgan

And for somebody else, you know what I’m saying? Whitney wasn’t the only pop star around this time. We also had Madonna around this time. So, surprising that this wasn’t a vehicle for Madonna. And as controversial as it ended up being for Madonna, and as controversial as it ended up being having an interracial love affair—

oliver

Right, which never gets addressed, which is interesting.

morgan

Right, which never gets addressed, except about a clip, and we can get to that later. But I’m surprised no one thought Madonna first. That the original casting was always going to be—if it was gonna be Diana Ross and Ryan O’Neal—that this was always going to be an interracial love story. But it’s just interesting that this didn’t—someone didn’t veto that and be like, “What about Madonna?”

april

One of the reasons why it seems that they went with Whitney is that—and no offense to Madonna—I mean, she doesn’t have the kind of vocal capabilities that Whitney Houston did, like, never, right? [Oliver laughs.]

morgan

Truer words have never been spoken.

april

I mean, she’s a great, like, stylist of things, and, y’know, she’s got a great image, and that was always kind of fun, you know, doing creative things. But Whitney Houston was just, you know, pure obviously a raw singer. [Morgan affirms.] And that’s what Kevin Costner was looking for, was that—cause, you know, he was thinking early on what the songs were going to be. You know, as—as they were going through passing it was just like, “I know the songs, and I know the person who can sing them.” [Oliver and Morgan affirm.] And—and you know, you’re not gonna go with someone who doesn’t have that vocal range.

morgan

Doesn’t have the chops.

oliver

So, I said that, the first time I ever watched this film was literally this week, the prep for it. What were your initial thoughts at it then? And if you’ve watched it more recently, I’m curious how your thoughts may or may not have changed in that time.

april

It’s funny, when you’re a kid, I don’t think you have any taste in film. [Laughs] You know, you’re just like, “Cool! Someone put a thing in front of my eyes! Great!” So I—I think that—um, yeah, I was just like, “It’s fine. I’m waiting for her to sing the songs.” And the live performances that you see are the things that I remember. I did not remember anything else, but those performances, it was just like, “Yeah.” So it was almost to me like a concert video that I remember, as opposed to the movie itself.

oliver

Which is fascinating, because given that this is not a short film. I mean, it’s over two hours, and the amount of actual music in it is surprisingly small, considering that you booked Whitney Houston to play it. And you would think you would create more opportunities, but there’s not that many musical moments, in the grand scheme of it. I don’t think this is a real hot take, cause to me it seemed like an obvious point is that what rescues this film is the fact that the soundtrack was the bestselling soundtrack. [April affirms.]

morgan

Of all time.

oliver

And that went a long distance to paper over whatever kinds of formal flaws you could find in the film, which is, to be quite honest—at least from someone who just watched, I think sizable. The runtime is at least 20-30% too long. But I do think that the most common complaint that people made about this film is that the chemistry between Houston and Costner, not really there. And watching it for the first time, going in knowing that was a common complaint, I actually thought they had some decent moments. But for whatever reason, whether it was in the writing or the directing, they didn’t create enough moments for them to have, I think, good chemistry with one another. And, to me, it was kind of a missed opportunity to just do more with that, because the—you would think the story would require it, and it’s not really there.

morgan

I think they took too long trying to establish Whitney’s character as someone that didn’t want to be protected, and I think she has a line where she says something like, “You may not have heard about me, but I have a reputation for being a [beep].” And I think they took too long to create her sort of, you know, whatever difficult star, and to sort of ice him out. So that, had they gotten to that a little bit earlier, I think we would’ve seen the chemistry a little bit earlier. I like the chemistry between them, because the way she was looking at him, and when it clicked it clicked. I mean, one of the coolest scenes is when he takes her into that red state bar that they go into. [Oliver laughs.]

april

Yeah, and they’re slow dancing.

morgan

And they’re slow dancing, right. And there’s that gentrified “I Will Always Love You”, which I think is a good tease of what the final song is gonna be.

oliver

By John Doe.

morgan

I was like, “Who is that?” You know? It may not have been potent enough for audiences, but I liked the chemistry. I like the chemistry between them. I like that she, you know, softened up a little bit. There was a lot of back and forth between “I’m angry at you” and “Now I love you”, but that’s just relationships. He seemed like the only person in her world that actually cared. Like everybody else seemed like they were there for whatever. They were obsessed with the stardom. So, I did like that. I liked the costuming. I don’t know who the costume designer was, but Whitney—

oliver

There were some nice fits in this.

morgan

My God.

april

That—what is it, the—

morgan

Queen of the Night.

april

That is iconic. Gorgeous.

oliver

April, how about you?

april

I enjoyed the cinematography of this movie. You can obviously tell, I think, in the stage performances, or the kind of—the moody bar scene. You know, I just really liked the framing. I liked the cinematography. There was like a patience to it, and I think that it also lends itself to making the movie feel a little bit too long. So I think that the cinematography and the editing weren’t kind of in concert with one another. But the cinematography on its own, if I’m looking at these scenes and these shots, I’m just like, “Yeah, this is beautiful.” And that’s what I was talking about when it comes to kind of atmosphere, too. You know, I think that that’s, um, it’s really beautiful, the lighting and cinematography.

oliver

Right, and to Morgan’s previous point, I did think that the country bar scene is one of the best in the film overall. It’s—you like the two characters. The setting feels—it feels natural in a way that a lot of the rest of the film—partly because she's a superstar, so she lives in this like insane house, right? [Morgan affirms.] Which I saw and was like, “Isn’t that the Godfather, like, horse head house?” Which, it turned out, it was.

morgan

Oh, wow. Okay.

oliver

Yeah. Any case, and so, I thought that was really—everything about that scene was really, really nicely done.

morgan

I loved it, yeah.

oliver

And to your point, yeah, I do think the cinematography—there were a lot of like, really great shots. We didn’t really mention this yet, but Whitney’s performance of “I Have Nothing” in Miami. [Morgan and April respond emphatically.] Another incredible outfit, and the one—the most sustained musical moment in the film. We can come back to this in the second half of today’s episode. But I just thought that was actually really nicely done, too. Though I do have a small thing to pick about. We’ll come back to that later.

morgan

You do?

oliver

Yeah, I’ll get to it right now. Um, she’s performing the song as its recorded for the soundtrack, which is fully produced. What we see on stage is, it’s her and a piano, but there is clearly a percussion section, a rhythm section, and a horn section. Maybe string accompaniment? I don’t remember right off the top. None of that’s visible, and what you’re seeing does not line up to what you’re hearing. And I think that, for most—because—and this says a lot about the transcendence of Houston’s voice, you don’t really care, and you probably normally would never notice. But for me, because—especially for this series, I’m always thinking about the intersection between music and image. And so that kind of juncture between she only has a piano on stage, where the hell is the rest of this music coming from? Is she lip syncing? Then why is the pianist there? Like, it just doesn’t make a lot of visual, logical sense to me. But that’s really—it’s a very small nitpick.

morgan

Production. And that’s a production thing. Because sometimes, as music supervisor, we have to do on cameras and sometimes things, you know, directions get changed. And so you might have had in mind this whole band and they're not there for whatever the reason is. There’s some union situations. So I thought that might have been a production thing, or a last minute decision. But it didn’t line up, so I feel you there.

oliver

But it’s still a great performative moment, ‘cause just—I mean the wavering of her mouth. And this, I mean, I think when Houston sings, you just—you pay so much attention to her face and her gestures. And that performance of it is also, I think, such a striking thing, when we think about Houston across her career.

music

“I Have Nothing” off the album The Bodyguard by Whitney Houston. Impassioned, strong singing. I don't really need to look Very much further I don't want to have to go Where you don't follow I will hold it back again This passion inside Can't run from myself There's nowhere to hide [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]

morgan

Real quick, we have this clip of Whitney talking about some of the themes.

clip

Speaker 1: You don’t get them in the end. Is that because of the Hollywood code says that a Black woman shouldn’t have a white man in their bed? Whitney: [Laughing] Um, that wasn’t written in the script. It was written like, he goes his way and she goes hers, you know? Um, that’s it. It wasn’t that she can’t have him because he’s white, you know? I mean, come on. Look at our world, and look how we’re living. I mean, it’s—every day you see white and Black people together. Speaker 1: Yes, but not in Hollywood films. Whitney: Well, this—now you got it. This is now. Here you have it.

morgan

So much of this movie afterwards was about the controversy between how audiences were ready for her and Kevin Costner to be together, and um, about that last kiss. Like, were they gonna do it? Were they not gonna do it? Were they gonna do it for so long? And it is a long, built-up scene. From the swirling—you saw it last night when you watched it again—from that to like—

oliver

That’s a Michael Bay, you know, camera swirl right there.

morgan

It is, right? And it went on and on.

oliver

That’s where he got it from.

morgan

Yup. And I was like, “Aw,” you know?” ‘Cause that was a point of contention. Should we do this, and should there be tongue, should there not? Whatever. ‘Cause that came up.

oliver

Was there tongue in that scene?

morgan

No. That kiss was dry as bones. [Oliver laughs. April affirms. Christian Dueñas, editor, can also be heard laughing hysterically.] It was dry as bones.

april

But that was—I mean, there was a lot of conversations around that time about interracial love affairs on screen. Remember Pelican Brief? [Morgan and Oliver affirm.] And Denzel Washington, and him being like, “No, I’m not going to kiss. I’m not going—” You know, like, he was the one who was just like, maybe not. Like, if I can’t kiss a Black woman on screen then I’m not really going to kiss Julia Roberts. It’s not appropriate for this movie.

morgan

Right, and different politic with a Black woman kissing a white man. [April affirms.] Different politics, but controversy nonetheless. Yeah.

oliver

We will be back with more of our conversation with April Wolfe about The Bodyguard after a brief word from a couple of our Max Fun sibling podcasts. Keep it locked!

music

“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs

promo

Music: Uplifting, orchestral music plays. Moujan Zolfaghari: Hey everyone, Moujan Zolfaghari here with the cast of Mission to Zyxx! The Cast: [Speaking out of sync and staggered.] Hello! Moujan: Our fourth season premiers on February 19th, and for those of you who aren’t familiar with the show, we decided to ask one of our characters to give you a quick recap of what’s happened so far. [Distant cheering.] Moujan: So, say hi, C-53! C-53: [Voice distorted electronically.] Hello. How may I be of service? Moujan: C, can you tell us what’s happening in the Zyxx quadrant, leading up to season 4? C-53: [Pleasantly.] Certainly. The evil Nermut Bundaloy—not to be confused with the nonevil Nermut Bundaloy of no relation—murdered his fellow counselors and crowned himself emperor of the galaxy. With the help of myself and the rest of the crew of The Bargarean Jade, Zima Knight Pleck Decksetter knocked the emperor and an ancient, cosmic entity known as Beano into a chasm aboard the gigantic Planet Crusher Crusher—a machine built to crush Planet Crushers, which in turn were designed to crush planets. The resulting implosion created a vast celestial object with unknown powers. We’re currently in search of our former rebel commander, Seesu Gundu, who may yet reunite our fractured galaxy. Is that sufficient? Moujan: Yeah! All clear to me! Mission to Zyxx Season 4 debuts on February 19th, on Maximum Fun. [Music ends with a triumphant chorus of trumpets.]

promo

[Cheering crowd.] Danielle Radford: Mmmacho man, to the top rope! [Thump!] Danielle: The flying elbow! The cover! [Crowd cheering swells.] Speaker 2: [Distant; impact on each word] One! Two! Three! [Ding ding ding!] Danielle:: We've got a new champion! Music: Excited, sweeping music. Lindsey Kelk: We're here with Macho Man Randy Savage after his big win to become the new world champion! What are you gonna do now, Mach?! Hal Lublin: [Randy Savage impression] I'm gonna go listen to the newest episode of the Tights and Fights podcast, oh yeah! Lindsey: Tell us more about this podcast! Hal: [Continuing impression] It's the podcast of power, too sweet to be sour! Funky like a monkey! Woke discussions, man! And jokes about wrestlers' fashion choices, myself excluded! Yeahh! Lindsey: I can't wait to listen! Hal: [Continuing impression] Neither can I! You can find it Saturdays on Maximum Fun! Oh yeahhh! Dig it! [Music fades out.]

music

“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under The Stairs

morgan

Yo, and we’re back on Heat Rocks, and we’re talking The Bodyguard soundtrack with April Wolfe.

oliver

April, if I can just start with a brief tangent here, is—I write a lot about music, but I’ve never written a song. So I’m wondering, what is it like to go from reviewing and writing about films to actually writing a film?

april

For me, it’s two sides of the same coin. ‘Cause I was writing films before I was reviewing them, and I think that that gave me a nice insight. And then when I actually—you know, a lot of people come here to make it, to Los Angeles, and I was just like, “Well, maybe I just won’t be one of those people who gets to make it.” And so then I started writing about film on the other side, to be like, “Oh, well at least I can be involved.” I can be, uh, you know, involved in that conversation of criticism. And to me, I think that that’s really vital. ‘Cause I try to approach criticism with a really positive angle, from, you know, the production standpoint and the actual creation of it. But then, of course, I finally got a chance, and now I’m writing it. And to me, it just—those two are, um, they’rein conversation with one another. And that, you know, hopefully my background being a critic forces me to try to do things that will make me a little bit scared, and not be um, too relaxed in what I’m doing.

oliver

What I always imagined would be—especially imagining writing a song—is that every time I sit down to analyze someone else’s music, if I were to sit down to write music, I would just be thinking of the person like me sitting down, listening to this, and what they would say. And that would, for me, be kind of intimidating, because I’m not the harshest person out there, but nonetheless, you know, I have certainly written critical things about different things across time. And so that would be kind of in the back of my head. I’m wondering, for you, did you hear your—did you hear April Wolfe the critic voice in the back of your head as you’re writing the film?

april

Yes, but, you know, she’s also very generous. [Laughs.] And uh, I think that, you know, if you come from a background of criticism that is really about the joy of the work—which, I know, I mean I’ve read and listened to your work, and I know that you guys are very much about the joy of the work, and celebrating the good things. I think that you are, you know, not as harsh on yourself. But, I mean, it just—it’s a challenge. Like, I think that it’s one of those things where I would write a line of dialogue and be like, “Oh, this is terrible. Like, I must get it out.” And I think if you have a journalism background too, you’re used to people editing you constantly and being like, “Yeah, no, that’s not gonna work.” And the kind of thick skin that you get from that is really, really great for screenwriting, ‘cause so many screenwriters are so fucking precious. I’m so sorry. I’m sorry to Morgan’s mom.

morgan

Mom.

april

They’re so precious about um, their words. Like, “Oh, no one could ever write this.” And it’s like, “Mm, we’re not all Charlie Kaufman, you know?” [Everyone laughs.] Have some humility. And um, and I think that that’s just kind of necessary for that type of career.

oliver

Yeah. Well, thank you for indulging in it that long. Bringing this back to The Bodyguard, and you—in the first half, we went in on the film. Let’s really, really get into the soundtrack and the music now. And Morgan, I’m wondering, as—besides being the resident Whitneyologist, but also, I think, someone who was very intensely, I think, thinking about music in ‘92, especially R&B and pop. How do you think this soundtrack stacks up as a snapshot of what music sounded like in that era?

morgan

Perfect. Especially when you, um—let’s talk about two songs in particular. One is “Jesus Loves Me”. It is very much um, what 90s gospel sounded like. It is very much the Winans. It is very much a mixture of BeBe and CeCe and it’s very much a mixture of R&B and gospel. As we know, Whitney’s whole gospel background and being the daughter of Sissy Houston. But it’s not 50-60s gospel, it is 90s gospel, and what that sounds like. And it’s a crafty 90s way to sneak gospel into an R&B soundtrack, which I thought was perfect.

music

“Jesus Loves Me” off the album The Bodyguard by Whitney Houston. Mid-tempo, gently joyful music. Yes, Jesus loves me Oh yes, Jesus loves me (loves me) Oh yes, Jesus loves me [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]

morgan

Sometimes the soundtrack was better than the movie. Sometimes people bought the soundtrack and hated the movie.

april

People used to care about soundtracks a little bit more—

morgan

Than now.

april

—than they do—yeah. And it’s like, that was their main mode of like, “Oh, it’ll be fine. People will go see the movie because we released the soundtrack. We got a number one single, so it’s fine.”

morgan

That’s it. That’s it. And I—

oliver

That’s how we ended up with Cats in 2019. [Morgan laughs.]

april

I love Cats. Let’s not get into Cats. [Morgan affirms, and she and April laugh.]

oliver

Next episode. Next episode. Keep it moving.

april

I love that the um, the story of “Jesus Loves Me” and Whitney calling up BeBe Winans and being being like, “Hey can you um, maybe write a second verse to this?” [Oliver laughs.]

morgan

Classic.

april

And it’s just like, “Yeah.”

oliver

It’s a flex. That is a flex, you know?

morgan

Classic. And that’s what—and that’s the pull that Whitney had, but that is also how big BeBe and CeCe Winans were. And how they slid into their—their gospel music was also called “urban contemporary”, and that was something that they really introduced to the mainstream, and this is classic.

oliver

And from what I understand, too, along these lines, there was a lot of just, that kind of outreach. Obviously, I think, in order to get “I Will Always Love You” cleared, there had to have been a conversation. [Morgan affirms.] I don’t know if it was directly between Whitney and Dolly, but this song doesn’t get made for this film without Dolly having some say in it. Um, you know, she covers—uh, Whitney covers Chaka Khan, and if I’m not mistaken, Chaka was in the video for this version of “I’m Every Woman”. So, I do love just imagining what those conversations would have been like. Like, you’re Chaka Khan, you get a call from Whitney, and it’s like, “Hey Chaka, it’s Whitney. I really wanna cover ‘I’m Every Woman’ for this new film. And by the way, it’s not gonna end up in the film. It’s just gonna be in the soundtrack. But are you okay with that?” I mean, I’m sure it’s a little bit more involved. There was probably attorneys involved in that convo, but nonetheless, artists at that level, having those negotiations and conversations. You—it’s one of those kind of game recognize game, and respect game kind of things, right?

morgan

I can imagine that Chaka Khan was probably like, “This is cool, because I know you”, but I’m sure Dolly Parton was probably really flattered. And people that ask her now, like, how does she feel about it, because Whitney took it on, and I think she said something like, “I’d laughed all the way to the bank.” Because Whitney blew this all the way up.

april

Yeah, it was just like, “Okay, then all of a sudden people are listening to my version.” But I think also, they, um, they didn’t even listen to Dolly Parton’s version. They only listened to Linda Ronstadt’s version.

oliver

[Morgan and April affirm several times while he talks.] Which was missing the last verse, from my understanding. They had to go back, and say, “You know, there’s a third verse,” and then, “Okay, we have to go re-record this.”

morgan

“We have to re-record,” yeah.

oliver

And that third verse is actually, I think, the most powerful moment in the song, because it’s when you actually bring in the full band, and just, boom, right? So.

morgan

That’s one of the greatest. I don’t know if you want us to talk about it, but that placement, how they brought the song in, in the film, is perfect.

music

“I Will Always Love You” off the album The Bodyguard by Whitney Houston. Slow, gentle yet passionate acapella singing. … I would only be in your way So I'll go, but I know I'll think of you... [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

It’s so unusual to hear any pop song that begins like that. And it would—it works within a soundtrack, because you don’t need it to have the kind of—it’s not the kind of song that was made for radio initially, right, it’s made for the movie. So you can kind of get away with doing acapella opening. Whereas, if you’re making—if you’re in the studio and you’re cutting the song that you wanna get onto, well, back into the 90’s, onto the radio, you just couldn’t do that. It wouldn’t work. You would have to have music that opens it. But I think because this version was made for the soundtrack, and for the film, you can do that, and to the point that both of you are making, it is extraordinary. And you just—I mean, we’ve talked about Whitney on this show before, but you can never say enough about the quality and the clarity of that voice. [Morgan hums in agreement.] And just having her open with that song, acapella, it’s all there is that you can focus on. And it’s incredible.

morgan

It is incredible, and it’s also, um, a flex of all the decision making that she made in that song, And that comes with having that sort of range. Where she starts, where she finishes, when she decides to go up, um, How she ends it, how she draws out that  last note. After Whitney passed, people started releasing her acapellas, and just listening to those acapellas, you were like, “Well, damn, why did anyone even go to the instrument, after that?” But that’s Whitney all around, just like, her—just the pureness of her voice, the choices that she made, the range that she had, which enabled her to make those decisions.

april

I think, also, I mean, that decision that she made to not have studio  musicians playing with her at the time, so that she could be guiding the timing, and allow—because the studio musicians would never be able to keep up, or understand, like, when she was gonna pause, or for how long she was going to pause. So it was just, like, she is like, you know, the conductor of this symphony as she’s performing. And I just, I love that it’s her. She is the guiding force of the entire song, and everyone kind of supports her.

music

[“I Will Always Love You” plays again. Gentle instruments are now underscoring her singing.] … I will always love you I will always love you You... [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

What, to you, is the fire track on the soundtrack, independent of its use in the film, but just in terms of when you’re going through the soundtrack. What is the one song here that you think is just fire? And maybe it is “I Will Always Love You”, which would make great sense, since it was the big hit. April?

april

I—I mean, I think I’m split. “I Will Always Love You” is gonna be one of my favorite songs from any person who’s had the guts to cover it, and do it well. Which takes so much. And, I love the arrangement of it. I’m always perplexed that it’s the first song on the soundtrack, though. Which doesn’t make total sense to me in terms of—

morgan

Sequencing.

april

Sequencing, yeah. Um, but I have to say, that I have listened to “I’m Every Woman” so many times in my life. Like, I think last Thanksgiving we listened to every single remix of it that we could find, and there are a lot of remixes of that song. And it is one that we listened to for like two hours straight? And it was like, “I’m not bored of this song, at all.”

music

“I’m Every Woman” off the album The Bodyguard by Whitney Houston. Mid-tempo, passionate singing with even more passionate backing vocals. Anything you want done, baby I'll do it naturally 'Cause I'm every woman (every woman) It's all in me [Music fades down but continues playing quietly under Oliver]

oliver

And I love the early 90’s house beat, which is so distinctive of that moment. It takes me back to—and I was never a heavy house kid, but I heard enough of it that the kind of—the signature sounds of what house sounded like in 1991-92 is all right there. [“I’m Every Woman” picks up speed and becomes fast and upbeat. It continues to play for several more seconds, then fades out.] Along those lines though, in terms of being of its time, but not nearly as charming, was that S.O.U.L. S.Y.S.T.E.M. song, “It’s Gonna Be A Lovely Day”. Which, it’s not—i’s neither a remix Nora cover of Bill Withers, but it’s obviously riffing on Bill Withers’ original “Lovely Day”. And this, to me, is everything I disliked about a certain kind of hip hop adjacent style of music of that era, because the rapping is not good. The production is super derivative.

music

“It’s Gonna Be A Lovely Day” off the album The Bodyguard by The S.O.U.L. S.Y.S.T.E.M. Upbeat, fast music under rapping. Lovely day, lovely day, lovely day, lovely day Lovely day, lovely day, lovely day, lovely day That was then and this is now My pulse rate beats fast and at last you're around I greet you, my eyes cannot leave you I just wanna squeeze you [Music fades out as Morgan laughs and Oliver speaks]

oliver

[Morgan laughs.] I tried—I did look this up. I didn’t spend a lot of time, but S.O.U.L. S.Y.S.T.E.M., if you look in the soundtrack, it’s spelled like an acronym, but I can’t find what the acronym is for S-O-U-L-S-Y-S-T-E-M. And uh, this was not my fire track. But it is, to my earlier question, it actually does make sense to be on here, because it’s very ‘92. Just not the ‘92 I care to remember.

morgan

[April laughs] Yeah. It is very ‘92.

oliver

What was your fire track? On the soundtrack.

morgan

You know, that’s tough, um, for obvious spiritual reasons, and  because I know my mother is listening to this, my favorite track is “Jesus Loves Me”. [April and Oliver laugh] Hands down. Hands down. No, I—you know, my first love is gospel music, so I love that track. But I love “Run To You”. I love “Run To You”. I just like Whitney’s vocal performance on this. Um, there’s such an innocence about “I Wanna Run To You”, and it’s the song that um, keeps getting—every time—when American Idol was hot, people would always audition doing Whitney songs, and we’d always be like, “Why are you doing a Whitney song?” And, hands down, they would have either be doing “Run To You”, or “I Have Nothing”. Which were super ambitious. Super ambitious. But it’s one of my favorites. It’s just, there’s just something about the Whitney that I like to see, which is the innocent church girl, and this big thing happened to her called fame, and it changed her.

music

“Run To You” off the album The Bodyguard by Whitney Houston. Slow, ardent singing over soaring, dramatic orchestral instruments. Won't you hold me in your arms And keep me safe from harm? I want to run to you (ooh) But if I come to you (ooh) [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

It’s been well established, you are a new jack swing fan.

morgan

I am a new jack swing fan.

oliver

So what did you think of “Queen of the Night”?

morgan

I love “Queen of the Night”!

oliver

I hated it. [Bursts into laughter.]

morgan

Come on, man! What? “Queen of the Night” is fire.

music

“Queen of the Night” off the album The Bodyguard by Whitney Houston. Fast-paced, deeply intense new jack swing with multilayered vocals. I've got more than enough To make you drop to your knees 'Cause I'm the queen of the night The queen of the night Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah [Music fades out as Morgan speaks]

morgan

It’s like “My Name is Not—”

oliver

It’s like C-rate Janet Jackson.

No, no, no, no. No it’s like “My Name is Not Susan”. It’s Whitney coming out of this sort of pop sensibility, and being like, “I’m raw, plus I got this silver breastplate on! I’m coming to get you!”

april

Oh yeah, that Cleopatra kind of thing going on.

oliver

Her outfit, that was fire! I think the song is just—everything I don’t like about new jack, this song encapsulates.

morgan

It is fire. If this was Siskel and Ebert, we would be in the back, you know, rolling each other up. But “Queen of the Night” probably, to me, is one of my favorite moments of this—the performance is one of my favorite moments of this film. [Oliver agrees.] It’s sexy, it is—it’s got a rock edge. Come on, April, help me out here!

april

I think it’s just fun. I don’t know that it’s the most fire track, obviously, on this, but it is exactly what you need to have a kind of variation in the music, and in the tone of this movie. You know, I think it fits it quite well.

music

[“Queen of the Night” plays again.] The queen of the night (queen of the night) Oh yeah, oh yeah, just say it, say it, say 'Cause I'm the queen of the night (queen of the night) Queen of the night (queen of the night) Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah yeah [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

While we’re still on the soundtrack, do we like any of the non-Whitney songs on this? Because half of the soundtrack are not Whitney songs. You have Kenny G and Aaron Neville, with “Even If My Heart Would Break”. Somehow it seems pitch perfect that Kenny G would be on this soundtrack. [April affirms.] Um, you have Lisa Stansfield, uh, doing “Someday Coming Back”. We mentioned S.O.U.L. S.Y.S.T.E.M.’s “It’s Gonna Be a Lovely Day”. Joe Cocker, of all people, gets on here with “Trust in Me”, featuring Sass Jordan.     

morgan

I like the Lisa Stansfield song. I like “Someday”.

april

I like her voice, too.

morgan

I love—yeah.

april

She’s got a very strange but discernible voice.

music

“Someday (I’m Coming Back)” off the album The Bodyguard by Lisa Stansfield. Fun, passionate singing over upbeat instrumentals. All I can hope is that you ask me to come back home Someday I'm coming back, and it won't be long Before you call me and tell me to come home [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

So we’ve talked about the fire track off the soundtrack. But in terms of the fire moment, musically, within the film, what are some of your favorites? And for me, I think number one has to be—we talked about this in the first half—it is the performance of “I Have Nothing” in that stage in Miami. And even though I was nitpicking the fact that the sound and image don’t quite match, whatever, I mean, this song is incredible. It is—if “I Will Always Love You” is an A+, this is at least like an A. Like it comes super close in terms of the quality of the performance. And the way in which the patience, unlike I think other parts of the film where the music doesn’t—you don’t get enough of it, long enough, with maybe the exception of “I Will Love You” at the end of the film. But you actually really just get to pay attention to Whitney’s performance of it. And the way that it’s shot, the outfit that she’s wearing in Miami, the whole nine is perfect.

morgan

And how close they are to her face during that shot, yeah.

music

[“I Have Nothing” plays again.] Where you don't follow I will hold it back again This passion inside I can't run from myself There's nowhere to hide Your love I'll remember forever Don't make me close one more door I don't want to hurt anymore [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

And if I’m not mistaken, this was a song written for the film, right? Unlike some of the other stuff, which were covers. But this was something that was designed for the film and I—it’s fantastic. I actually really liked the John Doe performance of “I Will Always Love You”, and you can quibble over maybe they should have picked a person performing, but I just like hearing the song come on as they're slow dancing. And there’s something—If i had more time I’d come up with like a list of best slow dance moments in films, because the song has to work there.

music

“I Will Always Love You” off the album The Bodyguard by John Doe. The same basic arrangement as before, though now with deeper vocals. … step of the way I will always love you Oh, I will always love you [Music fades out as April speaks]

april

Also, I think in terms of filmmaking, what they’re trying to do is make it an extension of him, right? So if it’s an extension of Kevin Kosner, then yeah, you kind of want like a, you know, a pastier white version of it.

oliver

See, this is why April’s here. She’s breaking it down.

april

It’s his dialogue to her, and she returns with her dialogue to him. And so you kind of have to have it in that particular voice, I think.

oliver

How about for each of you? Favorite musical moments within the film.

morgan

I like “Queen of the Night”.

oliver

Yeah, that whole scene.

morgan

Yeah. I love that moment. I think this is—Whitney is a big, huge star. That moment says it, from what she’s wearing, to how she embodies that performance, to everything that happens after that performance. That’s one of my favorite moments. And I’m not gonna take anything away from “I Will Always Love You”. We’ve already talked about how I feel about that. But that, to me, sold the “Whitney is major.” She is made, and she is major. She looked incredible, that costume was incredible. That crowd, that just gave me chills—chills looking at it again.

april

I’m so basic, but it’s that pause before she hits that—the final part of “I Will Always Love You”. That pause—it is—

oliver

The pause is everything. The pause is everything!

april

—pregnant. It is big.

oliver

Pun intended. [Everyone laughs.]

music

[“I Will Always Love You” plays again.] And I will always love you I will always love you [Music fades out as April speaks]

april

You didn’t mention, also, when you went through the track list, Curtis Stigers—

oliver

I did not.

april

—singing “What’s So Funny ‘Bout Peace Love and Understanding”. And it’s funny because he’s an Idaho legend, uh. [Laughs]

oliver

[Stammers] I sense that you know a little something about Idaho legends here.

april

I lived in Boise for a time when I was teaching at Boise state, and it was—and I worked with a record store there, um, called The Record Exchange, which is. It’s an amazing record store and people who were touring. It’s a great town for music because people who were touring would go through, and like, there’s so many amazing LP’s there for so cheap, and yeah. It was a great place. But he would always come in and he was like a rock star there, and it is because of being on this Bodyguard soundtrack. And it is so strange that his entire career was made and supported by this one cover song he did being on this stellar soundtrack. And um, I you know, totally fine, nice gentlemen, but like, I don’t—I’m trying to figure out why this song is on it! Like, it doesn’t totally make sense to me. But I think Kevin Costner was a fan of him and fought for it. And it was just kind of like his, you know, favorite kind of like, white man jazz of—flavor of that time, you know?

music

“What’s So Funny ‘Bout Peace Love And Understanding” off the album The Bodyguard by Curtis Stigers. Fast-paced, upbeat singing and instrumentals with multilayered vocals and a saxophone solo. What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding? (oh oh) What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding? (yeah) [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

The saxophone has had a long, proud history in pop music, but then, at some point, between probably 85-95, it just took a really downturn. I don’t think it’s really come back. I mean, there’s some decent sax on To Pimp a Butterfly, for example, like, some attempts to resurrect it. But, I just feel like a once majestic instrument has really fallen on hard times, and unfortunately I feel like this era that we’re listening to right now, is probably responsible for that. [Morgan laughs.]

april

I feel so bad, though! I mean, it’s a fine instrument. Someone should bring it back.

morgan

That’s real. That’s real, April. But I think in the 80’s, the sax showed up in so many pop jams, and there was always someone playing sax in the background. And I think, towards the end, it just sort of got corny, in a way. And it shouldn’t be.

april

I was just talking about The Lost Boys on Switchblade Sisters.

morgan

Ooh, that soundtrack.

april

And Sax Man’s on it. Tina Turner’s saxophone player is on—in a very prominent scene in that movie, and he’s just like, oiled, and like, almost wearing like a Tarzan outfit, and he’s giant, you know? I don’t know if you’ve seen Tina Turner’s old sax player, but he’s got a look.

oliver

You clearly have.

morgan

But now I want to. Now I want to. [Oliver and April laugh.] Yeah. Yeah. And ‘92 is when—isn’t that when Bill Clinton went on the Arsenio Show playing sax? With the glasses?

april 

Yes!

oliver

Maybe Bill killed it. [Morgan stammers and laughs.]

april

No, he like—for half a second, he made every young white boy in my school take up the sax. And I remember there was like, one kid named Joe who like, would always wear like, the Tom Cruise sunglasses. And he would—for any kind of school assembly, he would just go out there and perform the saxophone, and thinking he was so cool, and all the girls loved him. And I was just like, “Does anyone else think this is weird?”

morgan

It is weird. But shout-out to that dude, though, wherever you are right now, for those moments. But Bill did come on the Arsenio Show, with his looks, and with the sax.

oliver

I’m gonna cycle back to something I said at the beginning, which is I think the bones of this idea. However you wanna quibble about the execution of the film back in 1992, I don’t think it was a bad idea. I’m genuinely surprised they haven’t tried to remake this film, with the exception of the Hitman’s Bodyguard, which is the parody film with Sam Jackson and Ryan Reynolds a few years ago. But, this would seem ripe for a remake! And maybe it would be Beyoncé. Or if you’re not going to stay within a racial casting, I don’t know, could Gaga play this role? Like, what would The Bodyguard in 2020 look and sound like? Who would be in it? And what kind of music would we have with it?

april

Alright, I’ve thought about this because I was pitching. [Laughs.]

oliver 

Well, let’s—let’s talk about this, now, April.

morgan

Oh, word. Okay. Okay.

oliver

Without giving away too many secrets here, we don’t want you to give away the farm, here, but—

april

No, but I think this is particularly the kind of vehicle that people would be looking to Gaga for, specifically. And I feel like if it were Beyoncé, it would have to be a different tone, an interesting tone. I’m trying to think of like, you know, her film work with Melina Mitsuka, so it’s just like, okay. I think it would have to be, um—

morgan

Well, she was supposed to be in A Star Is Born. Yeah, she was supposed to be in A Star is Born, and I think something didn’t work out there, so that’s how they ended up with Gaga. But the first choice, I heard, was Beyoncé.

oliver

I just wanna say though, if they remade this in 2020 with Beyoncé, they have to have Solange as the Nicki role. [Morgan laughs. April affirms emphatically.]

morgan

Cold blooded.

oliver

Has to be.

morgan

But it’s gotta be. But that‘d be tough. That’d be tough. And see, I’d like to see Rihanna. If they did it again, my vote would probably be Rihanna.

oliver

Oh, I like that!

april

Oh, Rihanna is an interesting character match for that. I like what she was doing—was it Ocean’s 8 that she was in?

morgan

Yeah, Ocean’s 8. And I think she’d be good—I think she’d be good here.

oliver

I was also thinking maybe, and this would—if you wanted to give it a while different kind of gender and sexuality twist, recast this with Janelle Monae into Whitney’s character, and then Tessa Thompson as the bodyguard! She’s, I mean—Tessa’s got the action background. Janelle, I think, has a lot of presence. And that, to me, would be a really interesting look.

morgan

I’m not mad at that. I’m centrally about “don’t remake this.” That’s where I am. [April agrees] Leave it as it is. But if we had to, these discussions are fair.

oliver

Why do you think this film is so precious that you couldn’t remake it?

morgan

I don’t know that it’s necessarily the film. I think it’s just Whitney’s so precious. And I think, um, there’s a lot of pressure to beat a $400 million dollar soundtrack.

oliver

Well, I think if you remake the film, unless it’s a meta reference, you don’t use the songs. And you—I think you can’t use “I Will Always Love You”, except if there’s a similar bar scene where two people are slow dancing, then you can play the Whitney version. You do not comeback that song in the film. [April and Morgan affirm.] You just can’t.

morgan

You can’t, and I just—

april

I think you would have to separate yourself completely—like it would have to be very different. I would not think—because I think that you are exactly correct in the fact that beating the soundtrack is—would be impossible, and there would be expectations laid upon you if you  were even attempting to do that.

morgan

And you can’t match that, yeah.

april

So it’s like, maybe it wouldn’t even be a pop star. Maybe it would be someone else, you know?

morgan

Yeah. Not to say that everything was perfect about this film, but for me, I’d be like, “Damn”. But, but, again, if they had to do it, I’d love to see Rihanna play in the role. I’d love to see her play in the role.

oliver

I’d like that. So then, who plays Coster to her play?

morgan

Let’s pose it to our listeners. If you had to do it again, and we cast Rihanna in the lead, who would you want to lead The Bodyguard?

oliver 

How about, uh, Joaquin Phoenix? [Beat.]

april

No. [April and Oliver laugh.]

morgan

Just. Just creepy. Your bodyguard’s trying to kill you.

april

Yeah, I think it’s, it’d be a little—[Laughing] I think I would start watching it, and be like, “Oh no, it’s him. He’s there.”

morgan

Exactly. No one would believe it.

oliver

At the end of the film, it’s like, “Oh, are we sure?”

april

Right. Maybe do a background check on this man.

morgan

If your sister doesn’t take you out, your bodyguard will. The Bodyguard, starring Joaquin Phoenix.

oliver

So, April, if you had to describe The Bodyguard, either the film, or the soundtrack, in three words, what three words would you choose?

april

Um, star-power. There’s an “elegance” to it. And, um… “1992”. [Laughs.]

oliver

Real talk. That’s spot on. Spot on. [Morgan affirms.]

music

“Jesus Loves Me” plays again. For the Bible, oh Lord, it tells me so (tells me so), so glad (tells me so) [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

If listeners enjoy this week’s movie and soundtrack, what recommendations should they put on their list next? And I’ll start off, and this is not a soundtrack, this is really a movie. Um, but I would suggest check out Yojimbo, the 1961 Kurosawa and Mifune film—the Samurai/Western that was a huge influence on Kasdan for wanting to write the film. And you actually see them, they go watch the film for a date night, which, again, I’m not—that does not ring true that the two of them were going on their first date. They’re gonna go watch an Arthouse revival, you know, screening of Yojimbo. But nonetheless, Yojimbo’s a great film. If you’ve never seen it before, you’ll understand how—why so many people ripped off Kurosawa and Mifune from this era. Uh, maybe it had a really good soundtrack, I don’t quite remember, but it’s certainly a very good film. Morgan?

morgan

I’d say stay with Whitney, and I’d say go to The Preacher’s Wife soundtrack, or also go to Waiting to Exhale. I think you have two elements. I think you have the 90’s thing that baby-faced Whitney brought to Waiting to Exhale, and you just have Whitney in  perfection. And if you liked, yes, “Jesus Loves Me” as I do—what’s up mom—then uh, go ahead to The Preacher’s Wife soundtrack, which was the best-selling gospel record of all time.

oliver

Wait, even more than Aretha’s?

morgan

Even more than Aretha’s. Yeah. It sold more.

oliver

Man. Mind blown.

music

“Step By Step” off the album The Preacher’s Wife by Whitney Houston. Upbeat, kinetic music. Oh, I won't let my spirit go Until I get to my destination I'm gonna take it slowly cause I'm making it mine Step By Step (you know I'm taking it), bit by bit (bit by bit, come move) [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

April, what would you suggest our listeners watch or listen to next?

april

Well, I think I would probably go to the other side of the 90’s and, um, you know, R&B and pop singers working into acting, and just, y’know, check out the Poetic Justice soundtrack, which I think Morgan has talked about quite a bit.

morgan

It’s a good call. Yep.

april

But, when I’m thinking about things that pair with this, it’s just like, the 90’s weren’t just this. The 90’s were other things too, and I think that those kind of—those two soundtracks kind of envelop a certain kind of, [stammers] Hollywood new and old that was coming about at that time.

music

“Indo Smoke” off the album Poetic Justice by Mista Grimm. Mid-tempo rap. Over laps, don't say shit Just listen and recline for a spell Pass the fat spliff Back and forth (oh yeah) Stuck, unable to breathe Through the chronic Cloud that somehow Prevents me From installing' fresh air Ahh, Indo Smoke Pass me the joint So I can take a toke [Music fades out as Oliver speaks]

oliver

Well, that will do it for this episode of Heat Rocks, with our special guest April Wolfe. April of course hosts the Max Fun podcast Switchblade Sisters. What else are you working on right now?

april

Things I can’t talk about.

oliver

Okay. [April laughs.] Non-disclosure agreement-ed away. Where can people find you?

april

I’m on Twitter too much, so people can always look for me there. I always have my announcements there, but it’s a—

oliver

@AprilWolfe?

april

@AWolfeful, like a handful, but it’s a Wolfe-ful. Yeah.

oliver

You’ve been listening to Heat Rocks with me, Oliver Wang, and Morgan Rhodes.

morgan

Our theme music is “Crown Ones” by Thes One of People Under The Stairs. Shoutout to Thes for the hookup.

oliver

Heat Rocks is produced by myself and Morgan, alongside Christian Dueñas, who also edits, engineers, and does the booking for our shows.

morgan

Our senior producer is Laura Swisher, and our executive producer is Jesse Thorn.

oliver

We are part of the Maximum Fun family, taping every week live in their studios in the West Lake neighborhood of Los Angeles, where the queens and kings of the night roam freely. We’d like to thank our five-star iTunes reviewers, the most recent being J1180, who wrote in simply to say, “If you are a record lover, this is for you.” Thank you, J1180. If you, listeners who are not J1180, have not had a chance yet, please do consider leaving us a review. It’s such an important way for new listeners to find their way to us.

morgan

We also want to thank our social media fans and family, including the following folks. @Jacobi81, who was really into the Juice episode with Sean Fennessey. Also want to thank Mark Allerton for speaking up on that episode. Want to thank Spike Eskin. MJRadioLPodcast, which liked our episode with Justin Simien about Michael Jackson. We also want to thank Purpicide. [Laughs] Shout-out to Purpicide. Thank you so much. We also want to thank Briggie Smalls, @BrighamFisher1. Man, thank you all for having some of the best Twitter handles of ever. We have the best Twitter handled followers. Benjamin Meyers, Alexa Von Herschberg. We also want to thank Trisha Jackson, who was really into the Portishead episode. And last but not least, we want to thank Miguel Stenberg. We do so appreciate the tweezies and the retweezies. Good to see you, Oliver.

oliver

Good to see you too, Morgan.

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