Transcript
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs. [Music continues under the dialogue, then fades out.]
morgan rhodes
I’m Morgan Rhodes. You’re listening to Heat Rocks. And I am flying solo today. My copilot, Oliver Wang, will be back next week. As you know, every episode, we invite a guest to join us to talk about a heat rock. You know, fire, flammables, an album that bumps eternally. And today, we’ll be playing a numbers game, getting into the 2011 album from Emily King, Seven.
music
“Ever After” from the album Seven by Emily King. They say Happy Happy ever after Is only for fairy tales I believe in I believe in our love [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
Independence Day is a federal holiday in the US, commemorating the Declaration of Independence of the United States on July the 4th, 1776. July 12th, 2011 was Independence Day for Emily King: the day she released her sophomore project, Seven, as an independent artist after being dropped by her label, J Records, sometime after the release of her Grammy nominated project, East Side Story, and a smash single that I played on my radio show, in the car, and at the house, called “Walk in My Shoes”. Seven is a seven-track reintroduction to Emily, an album whose themes include in the artist’s own words, isolation. It is not the same isolation as in Faulkner’s Rose for Emily, where aloneness makes you do crazy things. No, this is the kind where you build a tiny recording studio in a closet in your grandmother’s house and come out of it with some of the most soft, soulful, prettily arranged pieces that make me feel like this is an album all about me and my situations. When Emily King recorded Seven, all she had was time, not money. And clearly time and a small space was all she needed. This album and that voice are a cross between what you didn’t know you needed and what you did. You need songs that cast music as a symbol of spirituality, songs like “Sides”, about transparency and real realness. Songs like “No More Room”, about saying “peace” to something that has overstayed its welcome and no longer suits you. This album is fire, as we say. Flammable. And since we started out talking about the 4th of July, we should end that way. Emily King’s album is all that, but it isn’t like those super loud, lowkey illegal, highkey dangerous, alarm killing, police inviting fireworks that you know you shouldn’t have had around the kids. This album is more like a sparkler, which according to Wikipedia, is a type of handheld firework that burns slowly while emitting colored flames, sparks, and other effects. Its art was made with a floating timeline and a DIY studio. It’s the open window after your label closes the door and makes you an independent woman. And if I could quote Destiny’s Child: “Girl, I didn’t know you could get down like that.” Seven is a heat rock.
music
“Ever After” from the album Seven by Emily King. In the heart of the city Someone stops just to say "Keep a step away from sadness [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
Seven was the album pick of our guest, Braxton Cook. I use these phrases together often: freshman class of jazz and the kids are alright. What I mean to describe is a group of giant talents, kids that do jazz for this generation. You’ll know the names. Bowers, Glasper, Kamasi, Scott, Otis Brown III, Jazzmeia Horn, Pinderhughes, and Braxton Cook. What a wonderful discovery his music has been, especially the day I stumbled upon “FJYD”. What a day, what a day. Shoutout to Erica.
music
“FJYD” from the album Braxton Cook Meet Butcher Brown by Braxton Cook. [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
He’s multitalented, nice with the alto saxophone and vocals, and he and all those names I mentioned with him, they got next. So, check for this kid whose fresh selections are just what we need right now. Braxton Cook, welcome to Heat Rocks.
braxton cook
Thank you for having me! That was amazing! [Chuckles.] That was really beautiful.
morgan
Glad to have you! Now, before we get into Seven, you have to tell us please where you were, musically, when the album came out. What you were listening to in 2011 and also if you can, where you were with your own music.
braxton
Sure. Yeah. So, I didn’t first discover this record when it came out. I guess like—yeah, like you said, 2011—it was a time where I had just made the decision to transfer actually from Georgetown University to Juilliard. At this point, I’m studying English, actually. I’m at Georgetown. My father’s a law professor at Georgetown Law School. My older brother went there. My little brother’s there, now. We pretty much grew up like Hoya’s kids. You know, we’d love watching the basketball team. Like, we were Georgetown kids. And I gave it a good—you know, two years, playing in DC, traveling a bit, playing gigs and stuff, practicing. And a lot of my friends that—you know, a few of them—I don’t know, you might know a Josh Crumbly. Used to play bass with Terence Blanchard. A few of my friends, like we were all kind of some of the better players in the nation in high school. Met in the Grammy band and stuff. And they went on to pursue music. I went to Georgetown. So, I’m watching them kind of start touring and their careers start budding. You know, Bowers even. And I—you know, they’d call me from time to time. And I hear them—you know, I see their successes. And they text me. And then, one day they called me on my birthday, actually. Joshua Crumbly and a friend, Luke Celenza, and Samora Pinderhughes. They all call me, and they played “Happy Birthday”. They’re I guess on break, and it was after that where I was like, “Alright. I know I wanna be in New York with my friends.” [Morgan affirms.] And I wanna give this a shot. I applied to transfer. I get in. They match my scholarship, cover everything. And I knew, alright, this is—you know, I have to follow this. You know? Like too much kind of just fell into place. So, right at that time—you know, you hear this Emily King record and it just—you know, hearing you talk about—yeah, how she leaves this label and ventures on to create her own sound independently—it speaks to me. You know? Like, you can hear that and feel that in the music, this sense of discovery and ownership of oneself and one’s path. Right? So, I think I definitely gravitated towards it when I first heard it. So, it was in that moment of transition. A very big moment. [Chuckles.]
music
“No More Room” from the album Seven by Emily King. Drifting in the middle of an empty ocean Waiting for the wind that will take me home Far too long my only company [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
When I first heard Emily King, that was that “Walk in My Shoes” song that I was talking about. And I mean, it was a smash. Like, it was everywhere. [Braxton agrees.]
music
“Walk in My Shoes” from the album East Side Story by Emily King. … can be me and walk in my shoes Every day there's something that's new to me I just gotta breathe, I don't know about you But I'm the only one that looks out for me Can be me, and Walk in my shoes It ain't easy being Emily [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
And so, it was on the radio. Then, I would play it—play it to death, just insert it in sets. I was like, “We ain’t even going in this direction, but I’m just gonna throw this in real quick.” [Braxton agrees with a laugh.] Come off of a hard dance set and just throw it in. And I loved her voice. And you know, we’ll talk a little bit more about discovering and about her voice but tell me what your initial reaction was. You heard this album and you said to yourself what?
braxton
Oh, man, the feelings of just nostalgia, I think, hit me first. I think the song that spoke to me the most off of Seven was “Georgia”.
music
“Georgia” from the album Seven by Emily King. I was not ready the day you gave me your heart I was still falling apart [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
braxton
I heard that song, and it just sent me back to like my childhood memories. Like, when I—we had a four-year/five-year period where our family just moved from Maryland to Georgia. This is another one of those transition moments that were—it was emotionally very difficult for me, I think, just uprooting myself and leaving friends and all this. And then you start to make a lot of friends—it’s my middle school years, too. So, it’s just a very wild—you know—hormonal time, too. So, it’s like a lot of those first memories and emotions, you know, and spikes of emotion, really. So, “Georgia” and that period of time just has a very—I don’t know. It’s also the time I found saxophone and found jazz for the first time in 8th grade. And so, it’s something about that period of time where your first crush is your first falling in love with music. You know what I mean? When I heard that song and I heard the longing in her voice in the title, it just—it was too much. You know what I mean? [Morgan agrees.]
music
“Georgia” from the album Seven by Emily King. How I wish I knew, Georgia, where you are? I can't be without you, Georgia, ooh Come back Georgia come back [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
Was it love at first listen? Like, did you—did you— [Braxton confirms.] Were you like, “I just have to bump this like, period.”
braxton
It was too much! It was too much. Yeah, I was on—and then also, my first year at Juilliard, I met Christian Scott. So, I ended up going—he calls me for a tour, I think, in 2012. So, the tour ended up being my sophomore year. But yeah, I’m playing that nonstop backstage, to the point that like his wife at the time—or fiancé at the time, Isadora—she started singing that song. Then he started working that song into the set. There might be some videos in 2012 or 2013—you could find it, of us playing “Georgia” by Emily King. And that’s completely my fault.
morgan
Really?
braxton
Yeah, yeah! I just—yeah, I was obsessed. I was—
morgan
You were obsessed.
braxton
Playing it nonstop.
music
“Georgia” covered by Braxton Cook. Oh, to think that you would be resting in my arms How I wish I knew, Georgia, where you are? [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
braxton
They even did a double bill one time; I think in Brooklyn at Weeksville Festival.
morgan
Really?!
braxton
Yeah! It was dope. And then once I saw her perform live—you know, I was—yeah, I was done.
morgan
I’m glad you mentioned the live show, because a friend of mine and I, we went to see Emily’s show here in LA at the Masonic Lodge, which is in the inside of Hollywood Forever, the cemetery. And that was in February. And she said when she was speaking to the audience when she first came out that like when her people—you know, her reps had said, “You know, we got this show for you in the cemetery.” She was like, “Well, no.” You know what I mean? “I’m not about to really play.” ‘Cause she really didn’t know the vibe. And once she came in and could see that she was like actually gonna be inside a lodge and not like—you know, in the cemetery. And it was one of the best shows that I’ve ever been. The acoustics in that building are out of control. Actually, ironically—
braxton
She’s got a aura, too. You know? She’s got like a Prince-esque like just thing about her. I don’t even know.
morgan
And the lights were purple. That was the—
braxton
[Excited.] Oh, for real!?
morgan
Uh-huh! The lights were purple in there over the vibe. [Braxton chuckles.] And the show was just so fire. At some point, I was like, “We gonna end up having to just like stage dive on Emily—just run up on Emily afterward.” [Braxton laughs.] ‘Cause she’s killing it. But the one thing that I remember was not only were the acoustics perfect, not only was it intimate, but this sort of rare politeness in the audience that you don’t see that much. ‘Cause there’s somebody usually drinking and talking, and you can hear. You know, you have to tell them. And you could hear a pin drop. The other thing that struck me—and I think it might have just been her and James Most, if I’m not mistaken. It was just two people. Right.
braxton
Just Jay Most. That boy, Jay Most. Yeah.
morgan
Just them. And it was just such a quiet respect that came—I mean, we literally—my friend and I walked away like, “What has just happened to us?” I wanted to play a little bit from her show—Christian, if you can pull it up; it’s her show at the Rockwood, in 2012. And she’s playing “Georgia” live. And I just wanted you to hear a little bit of it.
braxton
That’s the video! Yes!
morgan
Are you there? Were you there?
braxton
I wasn’t there, but that is the video where I was just obsessed. Is it black and white?
morgan
Yeeeees!
music
“Georgia” sung live by Emily King. Come back Georgia, come back Come back Georgia, come back I just need another chance Chance to make it better I was unhappy the day you left out my door [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
Oof! That is it. I mean, it is just a stunning piece of video. Her vocalists—I can appreciate the building more, because I went to the Rockwood first time this year, also in February. I flew out there for my birthday to see Van Hunt. And when I walked in, one of my homeboys was like, “Oh man, so much fire is happening here.” There’ve been some legendary shows. And so, watching this all over again and imagining her in that environment—it was the perfect environment. And the takeaway from that for me was how similar she sounded in the moment, as she sounds on the album. That’s just—there’s just something pristine about her voice that doesn’t waiver or change. [Braxton agrees.] You know, with the environment.
music
“Georgia” sung live by Emily King. Chance to make it better Come back Georgia, come back Come back Georgia, come back [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
One of our earliest shows, when we first started doing the podcast, we had Bowers on. And I told Oliver, I was like, “I know this dude. I’ve known him for a minute. Brush up on your Thelonious Monk, because this is what he’s about to talk about. Get into Thelonious. I’m gonna go brush up on Thelonious. So, we’ll get ready.” And then, his rep hit us and was like, “Um, he wants to talk about Section.80.” And we were like, “Kendrick Lamar’s Section.80?” [Braxton laughs.] And they were like, “Yeah!” So, we were like, “Okay!” Minds blown, ‘cause we’re thinking we’re gonna go down a jazz—you know.
braxton
The jazz route, yeah, no.
morgan
What was interesting was, he was able to really talk about the jazz leanings that are within Kendrick’s music and turned us onto a different perspective we didn’t know. So, my question for you is do you hear jazz? What do you hear, in jazz or whatever—what is it that you hear as a musician, as a vocalist that makes Emily’s music so special?
braxton
Oh, yeah, the harmony. You know? I mean, I’m a—I guess saxophone is probably my best skill, but you know, I study harmonies. I study harmony. I love harmony. The harmony is dense. It’s not just pop chords. You know, even in “Georgia”, it’s kind of [singing], “Come back Georgia, come back.” And then that second chord is this diminished chord. [Sings the melody.] You know? That second chord is so crunchy. It’s so nice. [Morgan agrees.] It’s like her choices are just—I don’t know, they’re not the simple 1/4, 5/1. You know what I mean? It’s not the very simple changes. She makes just subtle choices. Like, you can tell that she’s—if not studying music herself, she has jazz musicians in her band. [Morgan agrees.] So, it’s like—it’s in there. And I can hear it. And it’s just done so subtly. That’s what I love about it.
morgan
I mean, one of the things that I like about her vocals is what you mentioned—the choices. And that she ain’t—you know, running all over the place—not that there’s anything wrong with that. That’s cool.
braxton
Right, I love that stuff too.
morgan
I love it. I love it. I grew up in the church, so.
braxton
Me too.
morgan
You gotta be up here. You know what I mean? [Braxton laughs.] But I love that there’s so much in the voice that it leans a lot of ways for me. Soul and folk and jazz. And she’s got all that in how she sings, and she makes you lean forward and listen to her. She never overpowers.
braxton
There’s a lot of breath in her voice, too, which I love. [Morgan agrees.] I love that on any instrument. I love the airiness and that quality. Like, my favorite saxophoners have that kind of sound in it. You know what I mean? There’s some of that—there’s some that sing and play with a very bright just tone, and then there’s some that just there’s air into it. Air is life. You know? It’s like I love that part of it. I love hearing her breath in the music.
morgan
Well, speaking of breath, I have to talk about—usually we get into this later in the show, but since you brought it up, one of my favorite tracks—I think my favorite track on here is the first one I heard, which is “Every Part”. The way that she starts out—I mean, I love the way the song starts, that we have to wait a while, that there’s stuff going on in the background. We don’t know what it is. I love the guitar. I love how the songs ends with what, to me, sounds like someone’s doing a sound bath. But essentially, the air and the breath in her voice, she essentially had me at “all you ever do”. I could’ve turned the song off right there. I was like, “Okay, this is it right here.” [Braxton laughs.]
music
“Every Part” from the album Seven by Emily King. All you ever do Make me smile All of the time [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
braxton
Yeah. The folk, the space. I’m getting more and more into that. The space.
morgan
It’s just so engaging. You’re just drawn in from the beginning. And the first time I heard it, I was like, “Yep.” I usually carry with me—I’m pretty old school, so I usually carry with me like a sticky pad full of sticky notes of songs that I fall in love with, and I make notes. So, I’m gonna place this—you know, I have a list of like before I finish, wrap this career, I wanna place this on this, on this, on this. And that was one of them. And I was like, “I’ve got to.” And like, I got beat to it by a brother that I really respect. His name is Terence Nance, and he placed this in Oversimplification of Her Beauty. So, shouts out to him. It’s a gorgeous film, and I’ve nothing but love for that brother. But that was one of those songs that, at the moment, I was like, “Yup! I don’t know what moment, what scene, but this is going somewhere.”
music
“Every Part” from the album Seven by Emily King. Oh, all I ever wanted Was something And all I ever needed Was nothing (ooh) You will always be In my heart [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
“Every Part” is my fire track. And you mentioned “Georgia”. Is that your fire track? Is that your favorite on this album?
braxton
Oh yeah. That’s the one that brought me—that took me deep. That’s the one that like took me—that brought me to it, this record. That’s the one I’ll always go back to. “Down” is also up there, for me. God. Anyway.
morgan
Yeah, okay. I was gonna ask you—
braxton
“Down” is definitely up there, for me.
music
“Down” from the album Seven by Emily King. Like a drop of rain Falling through a passing wind You keep pulling me Down, down, down, down, down Can we get back up again? [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
braxton
I mean, once I heard “Down” and then I found a video of Nick Hakim and her, and then I went down the whole Nick Hakim rabbit hole. And I find out we’re both from Maryland. And then—it’s wild. It’s really wild. Nick Hakim is another one.
music
“Down” performed live by Emily King and Nick Hakim. Trying to get back to the point when we were right You keep pulling me Down, down, down, down, down Lower than I've ever known [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
And we’ll be back with more of our conversation with Braxton Cook on Emily King’s Seven after a brief word from a couple of great Max Fun podcasts. Don’t go anywhere.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs.
promo
Music: Upbeat, cheerful music plays in the background. Allie Goertz: Hi, I'm Allie Goertz! Julia Prescott: And I'm Julia Prescott. And we host— Both: —Round Springfield! Allie: Round Springfield is a Simpsons-adjacent podcast where we talk to your favorite Simpsons writers, voice actors, and everyone who’s worked on the show, to talk about shows that aren’t The Simpsons. So, we’re gonna be talking to people like David X. Cohen, Yeardley Smith, and Tim Long about other projects they worked on, sometimes projects that didn’t go well. Julia: Mmmmm! Allie: Some failures. Julia: Yeeeah! Allie: Some rejections. [Chuckles.] Julia: Some failed pilots. Some failed life events! [Laughs.] Allie: Yeah! We just talk to all the failures of The Simpsons. Julia: Yeeeah! Allie: So, if you really love your Simpsons trivia and want to get to know the people who have worked on The Simpsons a little bit better, come by Round Springfield. Julia: Every other week, on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts! [Music fades out.]
promo
Music: Electric guitar. Announcer: Dead Pilots Society brings you exclusive readings of comedy pilots that were never made, featuring actors like Patton Oswalt— Patton Oswalt: So, the vampire from the future sleeps in the dude’s studio during the day, and they hunt monsters at night. It’s Blade meets The Odd Couple! [Audience laughs] Announcer: —Adam Scott and Jane Levy— Jane Levy: Come on, Cory. She’s too serious, too business-y. She doesn’t know the hokey-pokey. Adam Scott: Well, she’ll learn what it’s all about. [Audience laughs.] Announcer: —Busy Philipps and Dave Koechner. Dave Koechner: Maybe this is family. Busy Philipps: My Uncle Tal, who showed his wiener to Cinderella at Disneyland, is family. Do you want him staying with us? [Light audience laughter.] Dave: He did stay with us, for three months. Busy: And he was a delight! [Audience laughs harder.] Announcer: A new pilot every month, only on Dead Pilots Society from Maximum Fun.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs.
morgan
Yo, and we are back on Heat Rocks, talking Emily King’s Seven with our guest, Braxton Cook. Usually, on this show we have people talk about a fire track and we don’t give them a first runner up, but you mentioned “Down”, so that would your—that would be your runner up? [Braxton chuckles and confirms.] Okay.
braxton
That’s the runner up for sure.
morgan
What is it about that jam that does it for you?
braxton
Oooh. Um. The intro is so—is like—like a cathedral. [Music fades in and Morgan agrees in awe.] It’s like all this reverb.
music
“Down” from the album Seven by Emily King. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
braxton
All that—you know, all these reflections. And then—[singing along with the track], “I just don’t understand.” Like, what?!
music
[Volume increases.] I just don't understand This here love is compromised Where does that leave us, when I look in your Eyes, you seem to care [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
braxton
I mean, lyrically—like, how it’s I guess doing the complete opposite from what the lyrics are saying.
music
[Volume increases.] You keep pulling me Down, down, down, down, down Lower than I've ever known Oh, you tease me with a smile [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
It just makes me wanna float. You just float on out of here.
braxton
You really forget about your problems. [Morgan agrees with a laugh.] Just that. It’s incredible. You’re like—you’re almost—it takes you to a spiritual place, like you’re really ready to just like float away, straight up.
morgan
You know, when you really love an album, I know it’s hard to pick one favorite. And we are very aware on this show that we’re putting people in a tough position. So, you know, I appreciate you—you know—choosing one and then choosing another. That said—
braxton
“Georgia”. Yeah. If I had to pick.
morgan
“Georgia”. That’s you?
braxton
Yes. Still. Still. ‘Cause of the—‘cause of the—
morgan
Hands down.
braxton
‘Cause—just because of that nostalgic, melancholy—you know, the melancholic tone and feeling and just what that means to me in particular. You know. And my time in Georgia and just—yeah. For me, that’s the one.
morgan
I would say “Every Part”, as I mentioned, is my—it’s so hard. This is just—this is—
braxton
I know. “Every Part” is your one. You said it.
morgan
It is. It is. But… let me get into this hypocrisy. It is hard to pick one. [They chuckle.] And we—but I have so many favorites, it’s hard to choose. But I love “Radio”. “Radio”—it’s the meaning behind “Radio”. I love the time she takes to liken music to spirituality. And I love the sweetness with which she speaks about her love. The way she talks about Aretha and Hendrix and Marley. I’m just like, “Come on.” My niece is—my niece and nephew are named Hendrix and Marley.
braxton
[Singing.] “Hendrix and Marley.” Yes!
morgan
So, it’s precious. [Braxton agrees emphatically.] Yeah. And how she talks about like—you know, no one taps into the blues like Aretha for her. And Hendrix and Marley—Christian, can you play some of it?
music
“Radio” from the album Seven by Emily King. Buddha and the Pope sing a lovely note Take my soul to where it wants to go Hendrix and Marley always do it right for me If I had one religion [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
braxton
Then the bass comes in! Oh my god. You gotta let that rock, Christian.
music
[Volume increases.] … a love song in the distance, a soft melody If I had one request… [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
braxton
Yeah, less is more with this record. It’s like arrangement. You know? I think in jazz, we definitely come from, “Alright, [snapping the rhythm] one, two, three, four, boom.” We’re all playing at the same time. And it’s like, you can do so much by taking the bass out, waiting, and like [claps] bring it in. Through the whole verse, that whole thing was just a cajón and her. You know? Just [mimics the beat]. That’s it. The whole thing. And then you wait for the bass to come in and it’s just like—arrangement is so powerful! Like, what you don’t say, what’s not playing.
morgan
Sure. Sure. And how you occupy the space when there is space.
braxton
Right. It’s just—it’s crazy. It’s things that—you know. It’s funny. It’s like I’ve gone to school to study music, and sometimes it can take you years later to come full circle to these ideas. You know? Very simple ideas, but powerful.
morgan
Which brings up a point I gotta ask you, man. Like, you know, how does—how does this album influence you as—you know, as a musician? Or what will you take away from it, you know, going forward in stuff that you arrange or stuff that you worked on after this album? How did it influence your production, your output?
braxton
I mean, I could—you could say I lot of the record is almost ballad like. Like, there—it grooves, right? But it probably doesn’t go past—I don’t know, maybe 100 beats per minute, most of the songs. You know? They’re all in that range. I do that a lot. That alone. A lot of my songs live in this—yeah, like you can look at it in Logic. “Oh wow.” I don’t have anything really faster than this certain tempo. There’s something about that pocket that like I love. So, with regard to tempo, I mean I’ve definitely been influenced by that. I write a lot of ballads. And I think, eventually in a live setting—when it comes to like, alright, how am I gonna cater to the crowd and put a set together?—the tempos start to change in our live arrangements. But in the conception, I think I sit at the piano or guitar, I write from the heart, and they end up being ballads. So. And with this kind of vibe. You know. There’s something about that melancholic feeling. Like, even when I wrote my record Somewhere in Between that I’ll always—I wanted to capture. It speaks to me, that… this idea of not fitting in, this idea of trying to find yourself. You know? There’s a seriousness to it, but there’s a sweetness to it. There’s a lightness and a darkness to it. I like that.
morgan
Thank you for mentioning Somewhere in Between, because we did an episode on comfort albums—the five albums we were listening to, picked a starting five of albums that we were listening to during this time, this craziness, this pandemic, that bring us comfort. And Somewhere in Between was my fifth pick. So, thank you for bringing that up.
music
“Never Thought” from the album Somewhere in Between by Braxton Cook. Ah, it seems like love [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
We talk on this show a lot about moments. Like, if there are favorite moments on any album. Meaning, you know, favorite parts of the song or favorite breaks in the song. And what I think is my favorite moment on the album—it comes towards the end of a song called “Sides”. Which is fire. I mean. [Braxton laughs.] See, now you’re gonna make me change—now I’m gonna start to change my [laughs]—my favorite jam. [Braxton giggles.] The more we get into the album—this happens to me sometimes on shows when I’m by myself. When Oliver’s here, he can keep me structured. But left to my own devices, I got a favorite song every five minutes.
braxton
You’ll be switching up! Yeah. [Laughs.]
morgan
You know what I mean? Every five minutes, I’m like, “No, that’s the one.” But Christian, if you could play “Sides” from around the 2:14 moment.
music
“Sides” from the album Seven by Emily King. Ah Oooh [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
braxton
[Morgan “oof”s.] She was riffing on that.
morgan
Yooooo!
braxton
She tapped in. She tapped in.
morgan
I mean, yooo! It has a Prince-esque quality in there. It just gets chunky and thick, and I wasn’t expecting that in the song. And that’s what I like. It’s like she just—you know, she took off and sailed to the end.
braxton
She really earned those adlibs, don’t she? She don’t really—it’s like when she does them, it’s like, “Oh. That’s exactly what it needed.” [Morgan agrees.] It’s crazy.
morgan
But I wasn’t ready! You know what I’m saying? [Braxton laughs and agrees.] I was in here, clutching my pearls like, “What’s just—?! What just happened on this jam?!” [Chuckles.] But it was a welcome surprise. You know, a warm surprise and a welcome one. Music heads always go back to a certain part, or we always talk about, “This part right here. This part right here.” Do you have one of those moments on Seven?
braxton
Oh, yeah. It’s the key change in “Georgia”.
music
“Georgia” from the album Seven by Emily King. I can’t be without you Georgia Come back, Georgia, come back Come back, Georgia, come back I just need another chance [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
“Georgia”’s yours. Right?
braxton
People don’t be doing—yeah, I mean, that’s my jam. That’s the fire one, for me. [Morgan agrees.] But it’s like—yeah, like people don’t be doing key changes like that. You know what I mean? It’s like—you know. When people do, it’s like, “Oh, okay!” And like, it’s very much where you sit at in church all the time. [Morgan agrees.] And it—like you said, there’s so many elements to spirituality and church in her music. But yeah, like just that. She’s in like, what, G Major and then it just goes up to A Flat. Yeah. It’s crazy. [Morgan agrees.] And then she comes in with that riff! Yeah. I love that moment. People don’t—they don’t change key enough.
morgan
They don’t.
braxton
We just make loops and just let it run.
morgan
That’s it. And I’m glad you brought that up, because I was watching the live, the Versus between—it was between John P. Kee and Hezekiah Walker.
braxton
Oh, come on, now!
morgan
Right. Did you see that Versus, last week?
braxton
No, I didn’t! No.
morgan
They were killing. And at some point, someone in the chat said that Hezekiah Walker is sort of the king of modulating. Like, you know when you join his choir, your lung capacity’s gotta be on point. Right? [Braxton laughs.] ‘Cause you know he’s gonna go through a plethora of key changes. But outside of gospel, I don’t hear it that much anymore. So, your point is well taken.
braxton
I know. It’s like “Love on Top”. You know? Like—and that was a moment. Like, I was like, “Oh, sweet. Okay. Beyonce got something to prove.”
morgan
“She going here.” Yup.
braxton
Yeah! Exactly! But it’s like—it’s not common at all in pop music. It’s just not. So, I enjoyed that.
morgan
Yeah, that’s a great point. People don’t—you know, bring back key changes. I’ve identified in the course of this show, Heat Rocks, things you need to bring back. We need to bring back intros, voicemail messages. You know what I mean? On the album. And please, Braxton and I want us to bring back key changes and modulation. Bring ‘em back.
braxton
Bring back the key changes. I’m talking to myself. I don’t have not one key change in none of my songs! So. [They laugh.]
morgan
Braxton, you gotta bring back the key changes, then. Bring them back. [Braxton agrees with a laugh.] You know, in prep for the chat, we usually ask guests to relisten to the album, because we wanna know from you anything that you might have heard differently this time around that maybe you might not have heard or noticed the first time you listened to it. And any nuances, anything that you discovered this time around in listening to it, or just listening to it while we’ve been talking here.
braxton
I think that—well, during this quarantine, I’ve been playing. I’ve been teaching myself guitar. [Chuckles.] And I like—I’ve just been on YouTube, you know. I’m getting to that place where I’m like, “Alright, cool. I can play—I can play like chords or whatever.” And I—so, once you learn a new instrument, it’s like, yeah, you just hear it. You start hearing things that you hadn’t before. So, yeah, there’s a lot of things—mic-ing things I’ve noticed on the acoustic guitar in this record that are techniques I wanna start checking out, certain voices. Like I said, like arrangement things. Because I’m also, you know, producing a lot more and just making—trying to make music every day. And I think there are things that—those are definitely things like songwriting and arrangement-wise I can honestly say in 2012/2013, no, I wasn’t paying attention to it. I was really just listening to her voice and the lyrics. You know? [Morgan affirms.] And I think as a saxophonist, you’re typically carrying the melody in a lot of these situations. I’m up front. I play, y’all follow me type situation. And I think, to be honest—yes, I gloss over the bass and the function of when they’re playing and what basslines are playing and what’s happening with the drums and just things that rhythm section players are very aware of. You know? So, yeah. With the second listen, I’m just—I’m noticing all of these different timbral changes in the rhythm section and the arrangements that I was honestly not listening for before.
morgan
Is there a song that pushed itself to the forefront on this most recent listen that you might not have given enough play to first time around?
braxton
Not necessarily for those reasons, but songs like “Sides” and “Every Part”, I didn’t listen to as much. So, you know when you listen to like a classic record and you go back to—you go back to it, sometimes you skip—like, you go back to listen to Thriller and you kind of skip “Thriller” sometimes. And you start going—you know what I mean? [Morgan agrees with a laugh.] And you wanna like, “Let me listen to like the joint with Paul McCartney or—” You know what I’m talking about? Like— [Morgan confirms.] So, in that sense, yeah—just in general, yeah, my second time around was when I listened to the other songs. Maybe not “Georgia” as much, maybe not “Radio” as much. Check out “Sides” and “Every Part”. So, in general, those stuck out a little bit more.
music
“Every Part” from the album Seven by Emily King. All you ever do Make me smile All of the time All the time [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
For me, going back and listening to it in prep for the chat, I spent a little bit more time with “No More Room”. And it wasn’t that I had skipped over “No More Room” the first time. It was that I wasn’t in a place to receive “No More Room” the way I received it today. You know. Some things are best understood when you’re looking over your shoulder. Right? [Braxton agrees.] And having the benefit of hindsight. And I was like, [clicks teeth] see, I know what you’re talking about now. At the time it came out, I was like, “I don’t know. I still have room.” Today, I was like, “No more room.” Right?
braxton
“No more room.” [Laughs.]
music
“No More Room” from the album Seven by Emily King. Something in a dream that I can't let go No more room in my life for you dear No more room in my life [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
So, that’s the one. It’s just that melody’s pretty. I mean, it just rolls. The tempo is perfect. She slides a few runs in there when you’re not expecting. Just hits you upside your head with a run and you didn’t think she had that in her pocket. And it’s just so pretty and just such a pretty way to sing a song that’s so vulnerable and so personal. I hope that this episode will encourage folks to go back and not just get into this album. You know, get into all of her albums. If I ever meet her, I think my question’s gonna be, “What’s your thing with the ‘S’es?” All of the—seven, switch, scenery, sides. All of her albums are around ‘S’es. So, I wanna know what’s—you know, what’s up with the consonants. But either way, all those albums are fire. And she is a giant talent. So.
music
“Down” from the album Seven by Emily King. Like a drop of rain Falling through a passing wind [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue.]
morgan
So, if you had to describe Emily King’s Seven in three words, what would they be?
braxton
Melancholy. Love. And searching.
morgan
I like that.
music
[Volume increases.] Oooh Oooh Oooh [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
If you like Emily King’s Seven, what else should you check out? And I’ll go first. If you like Emily King’s Seven, I would say—and usually I have a recommendation of another artist, but I would say stay with the catalogue. Skip forward and go to Scenery. Because it’s nice to see—I love to see an artist’s development and how they changed from album to album. So, I would say skip ahead to Scenery. Stay with Emily King. Get into the discography so it’ll bring light to the things Braxton and I are saying.
music
“Look at Me Now” from the album Scenery by Emily King. Did you hear about me? I got off the ground I stood up when you left and, baby, look at me now Look at me now, yeah Did you hear about me? I'm making a name [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
What would be your pick, if people like Seven? What else should they check out?
braxton
Oh, you gotta check out Nick Hakim’s Green Twins. Come on. Throw it on. Leave it on. And run that—and just run it back.
morgan
And hope you make it out. You know? [Braxton laughs.] Hope you make it out, ‘cause that’s—when you talk about melancholy—
braxton
Then go watch him sing live! And then go watch the Tiny Desk and then go watch the Pitchfork. It’s like how is he doing this? It’s crazy. [Morgan agrees.]
music
“Cuffed” from the album Green Twins by Nick Hakim. I am grateful I found a lover, a queen That shines right through the gloom It's a beautiful world The hips and levers tied me up in your room [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
I almost said Brittany Howard’s Jaime. But I want—
braxton
I feel that too!
morgan
Yep. That could be the number two, but I would say first—you know—get deep into, you know—get deep into Emily King’s discography, then pull yourself back together emotionally. Go into Nick Hakim, then pull yourself back together.
braxton
Again.
morgan
Again! [They laugh.]
music
“Georgia” from the album Jaime by Brittany Howard. Georgia, see you don't know it, but I'm afraid to tell you how I really feel But show you what I really mean when I'm saying hello [Volume decreases and continues under the dialogue then fades out.]
morgan
Well, that’s gonna do it for our conversation with Braxton Cook on Emily King’s Seven. What’s going on with you now? [Theme music fades in.] What are you working on now?
braxton
Like I said, I’m writing music every day. I have a little quarantine journal, private SoundCloud. It’s just new music I’m making. You know. I’m still—I have the record, Fire Sign, I just put out. So, still like sharing it with friends. Or sharing it with—to people.
morgan
And it’s beautiful.
braxton
Aw, thank you so much. Appreciate that. And I got another project, honestly, that’s [inaudible]. I think as I’m learning all these different instruments, I’m just—I don’t know, inspired to just make different things and make—and my production! You know it’s just like there’s so much free time! There’s so much time now. It’s like I’m just like making music every day, polishing, learning new skills. And I’d love to be at a place where I can just create a song start to finish. You know? Mix it and completely do it myself during this period where we’re just kind of at home. You know? Why not. [Morgan agrees.] I know I could play saxophone, but it’s like I can’t tour with anybody right now. So, I might as well figure out all these other pieces of the puzzle. And it’ll only help me be a better music and only help me like hear and understand where everyone’s coming from on the bandstand or when the world does, you know, open back up.
morgan
And where can folks find you on the socials?
braxton
It should just be @Braxton_Cook. I don’t think there’s too many of them out there. So, @Braxton_Cook on Instagram, Twitter. Braxton Cook Music on Facebook. And then you can find my music, like Fire Sign and any of my music on Apple Music, Spotify. Wherever else you wanna download or listen to music.
music
“Crown Ones” off the album Stepfather by People Under the Stairs. [Music continues under the dialogue.]
oliver
You’ve been listening to Heat Rocks with me, Oliver Wang, and Morgan Rhodes.
morgan
Our theme music is “Crown Ones” by Thes One of People Under the Stairs. Shout out to Thes for the hookup.
oliver
Heat Rocks is produced by myself and Morgan, alongside Christian Dueñas, who also edits, engineers, and does the booking for our shows.
morgan
Our senior producer is Laura Swisher, and our executive producer is Jesse Thorn.
oliver
We are part of the Maximum Fun family, taping every week live in their studios in the Westlake neighborhood of Los Angeles. [Music fades out.]
sound effect
Cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 2
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
Artist owned—
speaker 4
—audience supported.
About the show
Hosted by Oliver Wang and Morgan Rhodes, every episode of Heat Rocks invites a special guest to talk about a heat rock – a hot album, a scorching record. These are in-depth conversations about the albums that shape our lives.
Our guests include musicians, writers, and scholars and though we don’t exclusively focus on any one genre, expect to hear about albums from the worlds of soul, hip-hop, funk, jazz, Latin, and more.
New episodes every Thursday on Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts.
Subscribe to our website updates for exclusive bonus content (including extra interview segments, mini-episodes, etc.)
Meanwhile, you can email us at heatrockspod@gmail.com or follow us on social media:
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