TRANSCRIPT The Flop House Ep. 301: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

We kick off the New Year (and the next 300 episodes?) by discussing a movie that no one has ANY strong feelings about — Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. One programming note: we sort of threw together this episode at the last moment because Elliott was visiting New York, so we skip the usual letters and recommendation segments. Don’t worry, though — we still manage to talk for 100 minutes. Because it’s Star Wars.

Podcast: The Flop House

Episode number: 301

Transcript

dan

On this episode of The Flop House—a very special Flop House in theaters! We discuss… Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker.

elliott

Stuart gives it 2 thumbs… somewhere!

stuart

[Laughs.] Oh, man. [Dan laughs.] [Through laughter] You don’t wanna know.

music

Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.

dan

Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flop House! I’m Dan McCoy.

stuart

[With vaguely twangy accent] Oooh. Hey there, Dan! It’s me, Stuart Wellington! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

That was a little bit of a cowboy—

stuart

[With deliberately twangy accent] Oh, hey there!

elliott

—angling. [Laughs.]

stuart

Ohh, let’s mosey on over to this cantina! [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: We’re all— Dan: Well—

elliott

Well.

dan

As the sun goes down over Flop House town— [Elliott laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] We—

elliott

That’s really the first thing you can think of? [Elliott laughs.]

dan

We amble on down to the Catfish Creek to— [though laughter] catch ourselves dinner. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Dan: I don’t—I dunno. Elliott: I mean, we should—

elliott

We should’ve caught dinner—

crosstalk

Elliott: —before the sun went down. [Laughs.] Dan: We shoulda done it earlier. Yeah. [Stuart laughs.]

dan

Well it depends on what—

stuart

It’s gonna be more difficult— [Elliott laughs.] —doing night fishing, but you know what? Nothing tastes better than a 1AM meal! [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

elliott

I mean, the hard part’s gonna be building the fire when it’s dark out—

dan

Well, I mean, the question is what—

crosstalk

Dan: —time—what time of year is it? [Laughs.] Stuart: We called the fourth meal over at, uh— [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

Over at Taco Bell.

dan

I mean, if it’s near the solstice, the Winter Solstice—

crosstalk

Dan: —as it is right now— [Laughs.] Elliott: You’re right, Dan. It’s—

elliott

—late in the year so it gets darker earlier. Who wants to eat dinner at 3PM out on the range? [Stuart laughs.] I’m Elliott Kalan, by the way.

stuart

Though, uh… to quote my father at 3PM there’s less of a crowd— [Dan laughs.] —so the restaurant’s better, obviously! [Laughs.] [All laugh.]

elliott

You’re right. The late— [though laughter] the river, it’s easier to get a table by the river where the catfish are a-jumping.

stuart

Uh-huh.

elliott

What’d ya call it? A “crick” earlier?

dan

[Through laughter] Yep. A crackling crick. [Elliott laughs.] Okay. Let’s—

elliott

Wait, the creek is crackling? [All laugh.]

dan

It’s—it’s crack-a-lacklin. Um— [Elliott laughs.] [Through laughter] Let’s—

elliott

That—and that would be the moment when the sheriff—

crosstalk

Elliott: — shoots you. Stuart: I don’t wanna— [All laugh.]

stuart

I don’t wanna unpack-a-lack that joke, Dan! [Laughs.] [All laugh.]

dan

Um, so we’re all together here. In my, uh, suddenly very hot apartment.

crosstalk

Elliott: Yeah. We’re [singing to the tune of The Beatles’ “All Together Now”] all together now—all together now! Stuart: oh, yeah. It’s steaming.

elliott

[Still singing] On this episode! Of The Flop House. And… it’s kind of impromptu so we don’t have it planned the way we normally doooo!

dan

Yeah, this is gonna be a slightly, uh, different episode of The Flop House. Number one—

stuart

Yeah, we’re trying things out, y’know? Mixing it up!

elliott

Mm-hm.

dan

Uh, I guess. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] Or maybe it’s just that we sort of, like, threw this together at the last minute ‘cause Elliott was gonna be in town. But um…

elliott

I was in town for my cousin’s wedding and we all happened—

dan

Well, you are in town currently.

elliott

Uh, not—

dan

I know you’re speaking to the listener, but.

elliott

I mean, when this—

crosstalk

Elliott: —episode’s released— Stuart: Do you think—

elliott

—I may still be in town.

stuart

Do you think My Cousin’s Wedding was the planned sequel for My Cousin Vinny? [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: I—wait—but Vinny—oh, were—yeah, where we finally see Vinny— Dan: Do I think that? [Laughs.] Stuart: Yeah, do you ever think that? [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Where we finally—

crosstalk

Elliott: —see Vinny get married— Dan: Probably.

elliott

—to Marisa Tomei. But here’s the thing—this time—

stuart

Go on.

elliott

Vinny’s in jail. [Dan and Stuart laugh.] And Marisa Tomei has to argue the case to get him out. Because only a fool would represent himself in court— [Dan laughs.] And Vinny is no fool, as seen in My Cousin Vinny, in which that fast-talking New York wiseguy—not actually a wiseguy, but you know what I mean—he manages to pull one over on those smooth Southern slicksters. [Laughs.]

dan

Yeah. Seems so nice—

stuart

Wait, wait. Wait, they’re slick Southerners? [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Well, the laywer is!

stuart

Y’know? Okay.

dan

Vinny seems so nice in that movie. But then I saw The Irishman recently? And, like, he—I don’t know what time happened to him, but he was really mean to people!

stuart

Well… I mean, I don’t—I wouldn’t describe him as not nice— [Elliott and Dan laugh.]

dan

[Through laughter] Okay.

elliott

He’s—he—he wants to make—he wants to be friends with the Irishman’s daughter really badly, y’know? And obviously being spurned in the friendship of a kid, uh—

dan

He’s relatively patient with, uh… with Al Pacino. [Through laughter] Considering.

stuart

And he’s— [Elliott laughs.] And he’s very wrinkly at one point. [Laughs.]

dan

That’s true.

elliott

They’re all very wrinkly. I—it’s—The Irishman is the movie where I spent the first 40 minutes being like, how old is Robert De Niro supposed to be? Because it looks like he’s in his 50s— [Stuart laughs.] —but they’re all calling him “The Kid” and he just got back— [Dan laughs.] —from the war. [Laughs.]

stuart

[Laughs.] Yeah. There’s that bit where he, uh, where he beats up that shopkeeper and he like, curbstomps. [All laugh.] [Through laughter] And it’s the—the fakest thing I’ve ever seen. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

It—it—he’s worried that his corset’s gonna pop— [Dan laughs.] —if he—if he lifts his leg too high. [Stuart laughs.]

dan

Well, we’ve derailed ourselves almost immediately. But—

elliott

We’re talking about The Irishman, right?

dan

[Laughs.] The point is—alright. Number one, we’re doing—

elliott

Also, Robert De Niro? I think is Italian! [Dan laughs.]

stuart

[Through laughter] Wait, what?

elliott

[Through laughter] Hold on!

stuart

Uh, I think you need to look at the chyron again, Elliott. [Laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Good point.

dan

Uh, number one, this episode is gonna be slightly different ‘cause we sorta threw it together ‘cause Elliott’s in town.

crosstalk

Dan: Number two—we’re— Elliott: And we—we realized—

elliott

—we had all seen the same movie.

dan

Yes. We’re talking about… uh… Rise of, uh, Skywalker? [Elliott laughs.] ‘Cause we all have thoughts about it.

elliott

Everyone rises. Dark Knights. Planet of the Apes. Eventually, Skywalker was going to.

dan

You know what? Normally we don’t see movies in theaters, but uh—well, we do, but not— [Elliott laughs.] —for the podcast. [Laughs.]

elliott

We frequently—well, you guys frequently see movies in theaters. I—I do not normally see them because it’s hard for me to get out at night.

stuart

Yeah, I mean, there’s a moment in life, uh—it’s like, uh, like in a video game where the—an NPC gave me an option. I have two options. I could, uh, go see movies, or I could have children! [Laughs.] And I chose option A. [Laughs.]

dan

Yeah.

elliott

There are times when I wonder if I made the wrong choice. Then I see those sweet wittle boys’ faces and I go—

crosstalk

Elliott: Awww. Stuart: And I see sweet wittle boys on the silver screen! They’re—they’re similar things. [Inaudible.] Dan: Both are—both are very, very popular choices. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

I mean, you could go see Jojo Rabbit and see someone who looks just like my son on the movie screen, so—

crosstalk

Elliott: —I coulda done that. [Laughs.] Stuart: Uh-huh. You could also see a good movie. [Laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Whoa! Hooo!

stuart

[Laughs.] I hope Taika Waititi is a—

crosstalk

Stuart: —listener. He’s—he’s very cool. [Laughs.] Elliott: No. He’s never gonna listen to this.

elliott

He’s too busy and cool.

dan

Yeah. We all—we all like ya, Taika. But um— [Elliott laughs.] [Through laughter] The other thing—

dan

Dan: That sounded much more dismissive than I meant it. Yeah, I know. [Stuart laughs.] Elliott: Dan, he’s not listening. [Laughs.] Somehow that was much worse than Dan—

elliott

—being legitimately afraid that he would hear it. Or that Stuart, I’m sorry. [Inaudible.]

dan

Uh, the other thing is, like… I don’t know. Maybe we’ll do some of our other reg—regular segments? But maybe we won’t! In this episode.

stuart

Oh, wow. Keep ‘em guessing.

dan

So think of this as a Flop House After Dark, because it is after dark ‘cause it’s near the Solstice. [Elliott laughs.] [Through laughter] The Winter Solstice. [Laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Get—you’re really hitting that Solstice hard! Really dating the episode, Dan! Especially since this is gonna be released—at the very least—a week after the Solstice. But uh—

dan

I mean, the Solstice already—uh, that was the—was it the 21st of December?

stuart

Why are you looking at me?

crosstalk

Dan: You’re a pagan. [Laughs.] Stuart: It’s not a— [Laughs.] It’s not listed in my— [Laughs.] Elliott: [Laughs.] ‘Cause you’re Calendar Man, Stu!

crosstalk

Elliott: Oh, sorry, I shouldn’t have revealed that! Batman, don’t— [Laughs.] No, no. Stuart: Oh boy. Batman’s been listening this whole time! [Laughs.]

elliott

I hope Batman’s not listening. We love ya, Bats. It’s okay. But uh—

stuart

Who’s Batman’s, uh—who’s Batman’s—

crosstalk

Stuart: —tech person? Is it like, Radio? Or— Dan: Yeah, it was—it was the 21st.

crosstalk

Elliott: Uh… it’s not Microchip. ‘Cause that’s— Stuart: Gizmoduck? [Dan laughs.]

elliott

It’s—is Oracle the tech person, or just like a—like a research assistant?

stuart

Dan, who’s Batman’s tech person?

dan

Uh—

elliott

The Geek Squad?

dan

The one—Morgan Freeman?

stuart

Morgan Freeman. [Elliott laughs.] I mean—

elliott

Oh, Lucius Fox. Okay. Lucius Fox. Yeah.

stuart

Okay. Uh, we got a lot of fun here, but we’re not talking about DC Comics character The Batman— [Elliott and Dan laugh.] We’re gonna talk about The Irishman!

elliott

[Through laughter] Nope. He’s the superhero who has the power of the Irish!

crosstalk

Elliott: Which means he’s lucky, which means he’s Longshot! Stuart: I will—before—

stuart

Before—before we move on, I’ll say—

crosstalk

Elliott: And Domino. Stuart: I’m—I’m impressed that—

stuart

Y’know, we’ve had a lot of laughs at the expense of The Irishman’s— [Elliott laughs.] —wacky digital effects, but you know what? It may just still be really good— [Laughs.] Despite those things. Or possibly because those things.

crosstalk

Stuart: We don’t know. Elliott: Well, The Irishman

elliott

—is to me—and then we’ll get into what the movie we’re actually talking about—it’s like, when you see a band live and you’re like, I love this band. I love this song. And the band is like, y’know what? We’ve been playing this song for 30 years. We’re gonna do, kind of, like, a loose jam version of this song. And you’re like? You know what? If this had been the first version I ever heard? I don’t think it would’ve been my favorite? But I love seeing them playing around and having fun with this thing that they do so well. And like that, to me, is The Irishman? Is Martin Scorsese’s like, I’ve done this story before. I’m gonna do the kind of thing where I, like, play around with it and I just take my time with it and just—I do things that normally I would cut out because I’m trying to make this movie—

crosstalk

Stuart: Mm-hm. Like a scene where two characters— Elliott: —punchy.

stuart

—talk about, uh, cereal preferences.

elliott

Yeah. Well—so frankly, I—my favorite parts are the fact that Joe—that Joe Pesci cannot become friends with Robert de Niro’s daughter, and Jimmy Hoffa so naturally becomes friends with de Niro’s daughter— [Dan and Stuart laugh.] —and I’m like, I wanna see a movie about that! About these two corrupt guys fighting over the friendship [though laughter] of this adolescent girl! And there’s nothing creepy about it? It’s literally just that, like, this girl is, like, they just want—the thing that childless old men have where they’re like, oh I need the life that comes from being around a young person. Uh, you guys will know what it’s like. Anyway, eventually. [Dan and Stuart laugh.] But— [Laughs.] But just the, uh—

stuart

Wait, does that make me Hoffa or Joe Pesci? [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: Look, everyone decides whether to be a Hoffa or Pesci. Dan: I think— I—[Laughs.] Look.

dan

Between the two of us, I think we both know who a—a child [though laughter] would naturally find— [Stuart laughs.] —warm and approachable. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

I don’t know, Dan. I would refer you to, again, when you would come over for dinner and you and Sammy would watch The Muppets together—

dan

That’s true.

elliott

But uh, the—but uh—

dan

Well, your son is a very special child.

crosstalk

Elliott: Yeah. Hey, what’s that supposed to mean? Stuart: Yeah! You’re warm, whereas—

stuart

—I might be… cool? [Elliott laughs.] Put on Mr. Freeze costume, blast ice all over the place? [Laughs.]

elliott

So I guess it’s— [Laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] Whoa! [Stuart laughs.] This is my apartment, Stuart! [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: [Through laughter] Not anymore! [Laughs.] Dan: [Through laughter] You gotta defrost this whole place! [Laughs.] Elliott: It’s okay. It’ll melt. It’ll melt, Dan. It’ll melt.

dan

Yeah, but then the [though laughter] water damage? [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. Well, that you’ll have to deal with. Sure.

stuart

Yeah, that’s one thing that Batman doesn’t really talk about— [Dan laughs.] —is the water damage caused by Mr. Freeze’s— [Elliott laughs.] —bullshit.

elliott

And that’s the real crime. That uh—I—so I guess what I’m saying is I wish The Irishman was called The Irishman’s Daughter[All laugh.] [though laughter] —and it was just these two old gangsters fighting over the friendship of this kid. But okay. It’s the jam band version. Okay. But we’re here to talk about Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. The possibly final chapter in the Star Wars saga. Of course we know it won’t be. We’ll—there’s money to be made in—

crosstalk

Elliott: —them there hills. Stuart: According to a word on the street—

stuart

—it was a huge financial flop, right?

dan

Uh… what—this one? [Laughs.]

elliott

I—I—

dan

Well, it did make the least of the three new movies.

elliott

But he—but it’s also like—one, I’m sure it was disappointing to them? But also, I remember when Last Jedi came out and they were like, didn’t do the business that Force Awakens did! Looks like Star Wars is slipping! It was like, yeah, dude. Force Awakens was the first new Star Wars movie in, what, 15 years? Of course—releasing another movie a year or two later, of course it’s not gonna be as exciting! And people aren’t gonna rush out to see it.

stuart

Like, Han Solo’s in that shit, dude! [Elliott laughs.] People love him! [Laughs.]

dan

People do love Han Solo. That’s—

crosstalk

Elliott: Once Han Solo— [Laughs.] They—they—lo—and anyway. Stuart: Except for Harrison Ford. [Laughs.] Dan: Yeah, that’s true.

elliott

They like Han Solo when it’s Harrison Ford.

stuart

Yeah.

elliott

Because when it’s someone else playing Han Solo, people are not quite so eager— [All laugh.]

crosstalk

Elliott: —to see The Adventures of Han Solo. Dan: It’s also one of those things where, like— [Laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] This guy kinda is Han Solo? [All laugh.] [Through laughter] You can’t just slot another dude in. It’s like when they’ve tried to make all those, like, Pink Panther movies without Peter Sellers. [Laughs.]

elliott

Like, the thing about the Peter Sell—about the Pink Panther is he’s a mythic character. [Dan laughs.] Anyone can play him. He’s like Odysseus. He’s many masks. And it’s like, no, it’s pretty much just Peter Sellers.

stuart

Mm-hm.

dan

Mm-hm. Now I know that—I mean, people are gonna write in. Uh, Elliott knows that the character is, in fact, called Inspector Clouseau.

crosstalk

Elliott: Yes. I know the Pink— Dan: And Pink Panther was the diamond.

elliott

The diamond that was stolen by—what’s David Niven’s uh—

crosstalk

Elliott: —thief character? Look—when I— Dan: I don’t know. But uh—I—I’ve only watched that one once.

dan

‘Cause it’s actually the—one of the less-funny ones—

crosstalk

Elliott: The first one? Dan: The first one.

elliott

The—I reached a certain age where I stopped caring whether Frankenstein was the doctor or the monster? I’m just gonna call Clouseau’s character the Pink Panther since he essentially became that. [Dan laughs.] The same way I know Nick Charles is not The Thin Man; the thin man is the man he is looking for who’s disappeared, but by the second movie it’s like… look, we’re just gonna start talking about him as if he’s the thin man. Come on. So—Peter Sellers—there’s no reason to call those movies the Pink Panther if it’s not Peter Sellers, because the diamond is no longer a plot point.

stuart

David Niven is the bad guy— [Dan laughs.] —in Time Bandits, right? [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Um… no.

crosstalk

Dan: No, that’s uh— Elliott: That’s Ralph—

elliott

That’s, uh, that’s uh—that’s—oh, why am I forgetting his name? Uh—

dan

For—for a second you said—

crosstalk

Dan: Were you gonna say Ralph Richards, who plays God, yeah. Elliott: Ralph Richard, who plays God.

elliott

It’s um… I don’t know.

crosstalk

Stuart: Googling it right now. Elliott: Look it up! And people are yelling— Dan: David Warner? Or— Elliott: Yes! It’s David Warner! Stuart: [Inaudible] God dammit.

elliott

Who is much younger than David Niven.

dan

Okay. Well…

crosstalk

Elliott: David Niven is from like the Golden Age of Hollywood. Dan: That was a fun trip. [Laughs.] We took.

elliott

David Warner’s from later on. Uh… anyway. So The Rise of Skywalker! So guys—

dan

Yeah.

elliott

We’re gonna get into it. Uh—

stuart

Oh, it’s like I’m avoiding talking about this movie! [Laughs.] [All laugh.]

elliott

So basically, here’s what you need to know about the—the plot of The Rise of Skywalker. The Emperor is back. Somehow. That’s how it’s explained in the movie. The Emperor came back, somehow. And he’s like—

dan

Sometimes they come back! [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: [Laughs.] Yes. That’s true. Dan: Emperors. [Laughs.] Stuart: So, like going into it—

stuart

So going into this one, we—we’re all, like, Star Wars freaks, right?

elliott

I mean, Star—it’s—it’s weird what kind—knowing that Star Wars is a wholly corporate-owned entity.

stuart

Uh-huh.

elliott

And it exists at this point to make money and not because it is expressing the vision of a artist.

stuart

Yeah.

elliott

It’s—I have—still have such a strong emotional connection with it, and I’m still—I watched the first—I—I was very excited to watch the first movies with my son finally? And watching them, I’m like—these still cast a spell over me. And it’s still amazing to me that so much of this just come out—came out of George Lucas’s mind combining different—disparate elements into a story that is… y’know, phenomenally entertaining and like, moving in a way that is not—it’s not necessarily meant to be? And that is… beautiful in some ways and gave all these other people the opportunity to ex—exercise their craft in really fantastic ways?

stuart

And it’s also—they’re also movies that, like—I feel like… for the—like, you can look at most of them and find, like, cast a critical eye on them and try and pick apart details, but at this part I have no control over my emotional attachment. Like, I—I have seen—every single Star Wars movie and I have left the movie theater not disappointed.

elliott

Mm-hm.

stuart

That includes the prequels! I can’t control it. Like— [Elliott laughs.] I can be, like, this was dumb and silly, but I wasn’t mad. [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. But when you left this one, how did you feel?

stuart

I felt very unhappy. [Laughs.]

elliott

So I think—Dan and—and I and you, we form a spectrum where you were very unhappy about it.

stuart

Yeah.

elliott

Dan was like, eh, Star Wars! Whatcha gonna do? And I’m kind of in the middle, where I’m like… I think I’m—not—I’m—if I was younger, I would be mad, but instead I’m just kind of like, y’know what? I’m not angry. I’m just disappointed.

crosstalk

Elliott: I’m disappointed in— Stuart: Oh, wow. [Laughs.] So mature of you! Dan: Yeah. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: Because— Dan: Well, that’s— Yeah. Go on, sorry. Stuart: I—I—raged and tore at my hair—

stuart

—and garments. Which was a cool Darth Maul allover print t-shirt. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] I don’t know why I had to say “cool.” I think [though laughter] you guys assumed that. [Laughs.]

elliott

And when you said—it’s redundant to say “Cool Darth Maul allover print t-shirt.” The uh—that—that it’s like—oh, you were handed the reins—all the people involved—and it’s easy to put this at the feet of one person, but a—a lot of people were involved. You were handed the reins of, like—this really—this—it is a franchise, but it’s a special thing that holds a special place in people’s hearts. And you were like, uhhhh…. I guess we’ll just do it again? But we’ll make it into, like, a scavenger hunt for magic objects?

crosstalk

Elliott: Which Star Wars has never been. Dan: Yeah. That—we’ll get into that. Stuart: Well—

dan

I just, like— [Laughs.] There’s—

crosstalk

Dan: —this very MacGuffin-based Star Wars movie. Elliott: The fact that they have to find—

elliott

—a magic dagger so they can read an inscription on the dagger to find the Wayfinder so that they can use the Wayfinder to find the evil planet? Where the Emperor has his huge fleet of ships that he built somehow?

dan

It’s a point-and-click adventure, Elliott! [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. It does feel like a point-and-click.

stuart

The—find the fleet of Star Destroyers that all grew giant planet-destroying dicks? [Laughs.]

elliott

Well, it’s literally— [Elliott laughs.] [Dan laughs.] It’s—that—that are easily destroyed by just shooting ‘em with B-Wings? And A-Wings? It’s like if—it’s like if in the first movie, Luke—and we’ll get into the plot briefly. But it’s like— [Stuart laughs.] —if the first movie, Luke and Han went to the Death Star—

stuart

[Through laughter] I love that you’re mad at how easily they blew up. You’re like— [Elliott laughs.] Their armor rating is much higher than the—

crosstalk

Stuart: —attack [inaudible.] Elliott: Well, no, because they were built up—

elliott

—as this enormous threat, and then it’s just like, oh, a couple shots just takes it out when it’s time for them to be taken out. But uh—the—that uh… the—if Luke and Han went to the Death Star and they went to the cell block and they opened the door and there was a fucking mushroom man and he said, “The Princess is in another Death Star! Here is—here’s a clue that’ll help you find that!” The fact, in this movie, they were like—we have to find the clue to the Wayfinder! Without any sense of how ridiculous that is.

dan

I mean, like, not to jump way ahead in the movie? But, like, the—the most egregious, uh, example of that? Is when they go and like to the ruins of, like, the old Death Star off in the ocean of some planet? And they pull out the dagger? And it—the side of it—the grooves matched up with the destroyed Death Star? And I’m like, okay. Well who did this at what point, and why? [Laughs.]

elliott

Did it match up with the Death Star or was it like a mountain or something like that?

stuart

No, it matched up with the Death Star!

crosstalk

Dan: Yeah. [Laughs.] Elliott: Okay. Then I don’t know. Some dude— Stuart: It was like the—the circle part of the Death Star ruin.

elliott

Well, the—I mean, it was a dagger that was held by this super tough bounty hunter everyone was afraid of, who also had the goofiest, [though laughter] doofiest robot sidekick! [Dan laughs.] That—that—was just the fact that they’re, like, we’re introducing a new robot. By the way, he looks like he’s made out of shit. And he has no personality and he bumps into things. It’s like, what the fuck is this?

dan

[Through laughter] Let’s not badmouth the best thing in the movie, Elliott.

crosstalk

Stuart: Uh, Babu Frik? Elliott: The best—uh, the best thing— Dan: [Through laughter] Okay.

elliott

—in the movie is the chimp blacksmith who welds Kylo Ren’s mask back together and I was like, more of this, please! [All laugh.]

stuart

Like, the craziest thing is that he’s just a normal chimp! [All laugh.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Yes! This is like—just a regular chimp that they’ve trained to do this! Because they—because—here’s the thing about chimps.

crosstalk

Dan: [Laughs.] Please. [Through laughter] After 300 episodes, we’re finally getting to the thing about chimps! Stuart: Okay. [Laughs.] Wow. Elliott: [Laughs.] It’s—

elliott

And this is something that I just learned this year—chimps—you can—you can teach ‘em how to smoke cigarettes. But then—you don’t have to— [Dan and Stuart laugh.]

dan

But try and get ‘em to stop! [Laughs.]

elliott

But the—and then you can— [All laugh.] [Through laughter] And then you can get them to do anything. ‘Cause the trick is, they don’t have the right thumbs to light a lighter. So they need you to light that cigarette. So it’s not that they’re trained to smoke cigarettes; it’s that you can train them to do anything else you want— [Dan laughs.] —as long as you keep supplying them with smokes.

dan

[Through laughter] Sorry for laughing ‘cause that’s one of the worst things I’ve ever heard.

elliott

Oh, it’s terrible. [Dan laughs.] But—almost as terrible as learning that all the First Order Stormtroopers who are massacred, en masse, are—were kidnapped as children and abused—

crosstalk

Elliott: —and forced to become Stormtroopers! Dan: Child conscripts.

stuart

Yeah, I mean, the most, like—it’s so crazy that he—that JJ Abrams, who wrote the—who put together the first movie and is doing the final movie, that he introduced a char—he introduced Finn, who is a, like, a Stormtrooper who we find out is like enslaved and forced to become a Stormtrooper, like a child soldier. And he… breaks himself free and his arc was not to liberate them in, like, a revolution. It’s for him to go and blow ‘em all up. [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. Well, that’s the, uh, I mean, this—the story for this was also partly based on the Colin Trevorrow movie that didn’t get made, it seems? And as we know from The Book of Henry, he has some interesting ideas about [though laughter] childhood— [Stuart laughs.] —and like, how children as supposed to be—done anything with? But—the—als—just that—that—like—it puts such a weird cast on the movie. And again, jumping ahead—that the main character is struggling with whether or not to kill the evilest man in the universe, who can shoot spaceship-destroying lightning out of his hands, but—

crosstalk

Elliott: But people who were forced— Stuart: He—that’s crazy! What was going on there? [Laughs.]

elliott

But people who were forced to become soldiers, it’s like—kill ‘em all. Just kill ‘em all. Wipe ‘em out. Exterminate ‘em. Like, it made me really… like, feel gross about Star Wars in general. But okay. But like—like—

stuart

How was he shooting so much lighting? Was it ‘cause he was hooked up—

crosstalk

Stuart: —to that Hellraiser 2 thing? Dan: Because he drained—no, he drained the power of the Dyad of—of— Elliott: Because he drained—because Kylo Ren—

elliott

—and Rey have a special friendship.

stuart

Oh, yeah.

elliott

The way—when you’re—when you have a—

dan

They have a special relationship like we do with Great Britain. [All laugh.]

stuart

[Through laughter] Oh, okay.

elliott

[Through laughter] Yeah, and he drained that! So anyway. Here’s the—here’s the plot, very quickly. The Emperor’s back. How’d he do it? He’s got magic powers. He just did it. He’s got a planet of Sith that just sit around in cloaks in a stadium, waiting for him— [Stuart laughs. Dan joins in.] —to become all-powerful. And he’s attached to, like, a big metal gantry like Cameron Hodge in Genosha—

dan

But the thing is, like—it’s—like—the wait means it’s gonna be so good— [though laughter] when something happens. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] And—it’s tantric warships, I guess? And uh—the—and he tells Kylo Ren, hey, I want you to bring Rey to me. Hahaha! There’s—there’s a secret, blah, blah, blah! And instantly, you’re like—oh, is he, like, her dad or her grandpa or something? ‘Cause that would be dumb, but I guess that’s exactly what it is. Uh—to find this secret Sith planet, you need a Wayfinder. Which is a magic Triforce type of triangle. So the heroes of the movie have to find this Wayfinder, which means finding a magic dagger, which means finding—so they can find the—which has inscribed on it the information where the Wayfinder is. And then they find—

crosstalk

Elliott: —the Wayfinder. Stuart: Did you gloss over—

stuart

—the part where, uh, Rey uses her magic powers to heal the angry snake?

elliott

Nope, well, because to get the dagger they’ve gotta go to a desert planet that is not Tatooine or Jakku. It’s a different desert planet where there is some kind of Burning Man alien worship ceremony? Which was one of the few things in the movie where it was like, okay, this is great. This is something I’ve never seen in Star Wars before. And they leave it very quickly, uh, after a little girl gives Rey a lei and asks her her family name and she says, oh, I don’t have one.

stuart

I was really hoping that little girl was gonna ask for money. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

And Rey then heals a sand worm that is, uh, wounded—

crosstalk

Elliott: —and I was like, okay! Dan: Wait, we’re there already?

dan

I spaced out [though laughter] all of a sudden and—

crosstalk

Dan: —we’re in the middle of the movie! Elliott: Well, we—we skipped a lot.

elliott

But I—but the reason I liked the sand worm was like, oh, they did manage to get some Dune in this Star Wars! [Laughs.] She’s—she should be riding—

crosstalk

Elliott: —the sand worm! Dan: Well, there’s also—

dan

Poe used to be a spice trader, apparently! [Laughs.]

elliott

Well, but they’re all spice traders. Like, Han was a spice—that was the whole thing that got him in trouble with Jabba! Was he dumped a shipment of spice. Right?

stuart

Mm-hm.

dan

Was it specifically spice? I thought they just talked about, like, y’know, Jabba doesn’t have time for someone who dumps his cargo at the first sign of—

elliott

Maybe it was in an extended—an alter—it was in an expanded universe that they called it spice.

dan

Could be.

elliott

Maybe it was subscriptions to the Spice Network. I don’t know.

dan

Oh boy.

elliott

Anyway. So uh—

dan

That is important to the universe.

elliott

The thing is, I didn’t take notes while watching this movie ‘cause I just watched it for funzos?

dan

Yeah, sure!

elliott

So it’s gonna be—this—oh, also, uh—

dan

This is a classic Flop House uh, screw-around. [Laughs.] So.

elliott

Yeah. General—General Princess Leia has—also tells Rey— [Dan laughs.] —with some very generic lines of dialogue that were clearly recorded before Carrie Fisher died—and were then inserted into the movie, that she needs to go off and do her thing. Like, it’s all—

dan

I was easier on the movie than I think either of you? But this was, like, the first huge warning sign to me. [Laughs.] That just like—having Carrie Fisher stand around, like, obviously superimposed, saying, like, whatever loose lines they had and I’m like, okay, let’s write around these!

elliott

It really shows you how much Star Wars dialogue out of context is just like… generic random gibberish. That like—that you could take Yoda saying, y'know, do or do not, there is no try, and insert it into any scene—and it—like—you’re like, oh, yeah, a lot of the Force philosophy stuff is just kinda like…

dan

Listeners, go ahead and do that. [Laughs.] Take that dialogue and insert it into any scene.

crosstalk

Elliott: But in any scene from any movie. Dan: I would love— [though laughter] I would love to see that.

elliott

So—oh—so also—I’ll try to go—so General Leia is, like, you gotta find—there’s—we also have a spy.

crosstalk

Dan: You gotta friend [though laughter] in me, she says. Elliott: We have a—

elliott

There’s a spy— [Laughs.] Then she sings a Randy Newman medley, which is—I mean, fine, I guess.

dan

I mean, most of it’s pretty good. I think “Short People” didn’t age well— [Elliott laughs.] —even if it was a joke at the time.

elliott

Yeah. I mean, even I love LA ‘cause LA has changed quite so much over the—over the period.

stuart

So yeah, you don’t know if they—if he still loves LA or if that relationship’s cooled a little bit.

elliott

[Through laughter] Yeah, exactly! Uh, and so, uh, but there’s a spy in the First Order who’s telling them all this stuff.

crosstalk

Elliott: The Emperor’s back. Stuart: I wonder who it could be!

stuart

Is it the Emperor? Is it Kylo Ren? Who knows!

elliott

[Through laughter] Is it— [Dan laughs.] It has to be one of the three speaking characters, so it’s either the Emperor, Kylo Ren, Hux, or—

crosstalk

Elliott: Or Richard E. Grant as “new bad guy who’s always been there.” [Laughs.] Dan: Well they can—yeah. [Inaudible.] [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

And the Emperor’s like, oh, I’ve always been around. Snoke was just my puppet! And I’m like, well, Snoke was less a puppet than a crappy CGI effect, so.

crosstalk

Dan: I did think it, like—again—we keep leaping back and forth, but I do— Elliott: Not crappy, I should say, but. Stuart: Andy Serkis is listening right now. He’s super mad at you. Elliott: And the performance is not the problem with Snoke!

elliott

The problem is that there was no reason for that to be a CGI character in the first place!

crosstalk

Stuart: That’s arguably true. Dan: Well, but I—

dan

I also—

stuart

Except his face was really gross. Right? [Elliott and Dan laugh.]

crosstalk

Dan: That’s the thing— Elliott: [Through laughter] You’re right.

elliott

‘Cause there’s never been a gross—

crosstalk

Elliott: —character with practical effects. Stuart: You could see the inside part, even though you’re looking at the outside like he’s Jonah Hex. [Elliott laughs.] Dan: Here’s—here’s the thing.

dan

Here’s the thing. Like…

elliott

Okay! Defend Snoke!

dan

No, I’m not—I’m not gonna—I’m just gonna say, like, the—so—obviously we’re in Star Wars.

stuart

Uh-huh. Yep. Obviously.

dan

World full—world full of—

crosstalk

Dan: —a myriad—a galaxy. [Elliott laughs.] Stuart: I’d say a galaxy. [Laughs.]

dan

Galaxy full of great crazy aliens, interesting stuff to see—

elliott

Craliens, we call ‘em. [Dan laughs.] Crazy aliens. Crayola craliens!

dan

[Through laughter] Craisins? Raising that are—

crosstalk

Dan: —crazy somehow. Elliott: [Laughs.] They have raisins, craisins, Raisinettes—

dan

But—but the thing is, like, you got these great aliens, right, and—but like—Palpatine is not one of ‘em.

elliott

Yeah. Greliens, we call ‘em. Great aliens.

dan

Pal—Palpatine looks like an earthling, even though he comes from whatever planet.

elliott

Palpatine looks like—

crosstalk

Elliott: —the Elephant Man got a little bit of work done. Stuart: He’s—mm-hm. Dan: But he’s—

dan

Well, no, but he’s like— [Dan and Stuart laugh.]

crosstalk

Dan: He’s like a normal— Elliott: [Through laughter] Not all the work done! [Laughs.]

dan

He’s a normal man who, like, Dorian Grey-style, has gotten super, like, gross ‘cause he’s evil. Right?

crosstalk

Elliott: Yeah. Stuart: Uh—

stuart

I’m pretty sure because Mace Windu reflected his force lightning into his face— [Dan laughs.] —and that’s when his face got all wacky.

elliott

That was one of the funnier parts of the prequels to me, where they were like, wait, you feel like you have to explain how he got old? [Dan laughs.]

stuart

[Through laughter] Yeah! I loved that! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

That it wasn’t the ravages of time?

crosstalk

Stuart: Aw, man. That movie—that’s—that’s a good one. [Laughs.] Dan: But I just think it’s funny— [Elliott laughs.]

dan

When they like—when they reveal that Snoke is a puppet, like, it’s—like—and then later on, on the planet there’s like these tubes full of, like—

crosstalk

Dan: —clone Snokes— Elliott: Snoke clones! [Laughs.]

dan

—like we’re at the end of Alien: Resurrection, and I’m like, okay, that’s fun ‘cause it reminds me of how weird Alien: Resurrection was, but like—why is Palpatine, like, cloning this made-up Snoke character— [Elliott laughs.] —as, like, a non—like, this other alien who’s not—doesn’t look like him—I dunno. It was very confusing to me.

elliott

Yeah. It doesn’t—

stuart

Yeah. It’s ‘cause it’s dumb. Bringing Palpatine back’s dumb. [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: It’s a dumb idea. Elliott: Since Palpatine could essentially just—

elliott

Snoke could’ve just been Palpatine with his cloak off—

dan

[Through laughter] Yes.

elliott

And like—

crosstalk

Elliott: [Through laughter] —why [inaudible] missed it! Stuart: Or a normal looking Palpatine!

dan

No one would be—like—if he was, like, normal—

crosstalk

Stuart: —pre—like, weird Palpatine. [Laughs.] Elliott: How many people saw the Emperor?

elliott

Was he appearing in ads?

stuart

They didn’t even say his name was Palpatine in the original three movies! [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. Because he was, y’know, ‘cause it’s a dumb name! [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] So anyway. Uh—

stuart

They certainly don’t call him “Sheev” at any point. [Elliott laughs.] Which is his first name.

elliott

Well—they also—the revelation later on—

dan

Only friends.

crosstalk

Dan: Call him that, but. Elliott: The revelation that—

elliott

—Palpatine had a family, which is also kinda crazy. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] But uh, so—uh—so—this spy is telling them that Palpatine’s back, somehow. As Poe says to the Rebels, Palpatine’s back somehow. [Dan laughs.] And the uh—

dan

Palpatine’s back, alright? He says. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Everybody, You gotta rock your body. Palpatine’s back. [All laugh.] Uh, so—they—they’re gonna go on a quest. Who’s gonna go on this mission? Oh! All our favorite heroes! Poe, Rey, Finn, C-3P0, Chewbacca? Not so fast, R2-D2! [Dan and Stuart laugh.] Yes, you’re arguably the most lovable character in the entire series, but it’s time for BB-8 to get in!

dan

I did feel kind of like this was like—okay. This is another Grover/Elmo situation.

elliott

Exactly my thought! [Dan laughs.] I was—when I—when you’re—when you’re old enough and you’re like, what the fuck’s with all this Elmo stuff? [Laughs.] Grover’s the star! Who’s—or—like—

stuart

And they’re like, well—and somebody needs to take care of R2-D2. Rose! You stay back. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Rose! Oh you—arguably the second-most—interesting character from the new movies, you stay over here! [Stuart laughs.] First-most interesting character, of course, being that chimp blacksmith that we see in the beginning fixing Kylo Ren’s helmet. But the—like, that uh—or in The Muppets. Where at the end—what’s his name? Walter?

crosstalk

Dan: [Through laughter] Yes. Walter gets the freeze-frame. And you’re like, wait— Elliott: Gets the freeze-frame. And it’s like—

dan

Kermit’s been here the whole fucking time! [Stuart laughs.] The glue that holds the Muppets together!

elliott

Which also means that later—

stuart

I—y’know, if I was ever responsible for this sort of thing, I don’t think I would ever leave Dan alone in a room with Walter. [Laughs.] [All laugh.]

elliott

[Through laughter] No. You just hear a bang and you run in and Dan is shoving a gun into Walter’s hand and going, I dunno, he said something about not being worthy! And he just shot himself in the head! [All laugh riotously.] Dan, why are there powder burns on your hand? Oh, well, I was wrestling with him with the gun to try to get him to stop! [Dan laughs.] Why is there a knife in his back also with your fingerprints on it? Uh—

stuart

Why is the handle of the gun have a monogrammed “The Real McCoy written on it?” [All laugh.]

dan

It’s okay! We can—we can re-stuff him! No, I threw the stuffing down [though laughter] the toilet. [All laugh.]

elliott

It was what he wanted! In his last moments he told me that it was his last wish! [All laugh.]

elliott

‘Cause that’s the magic element that brings the Muppets to life? Is the stuffing?

dan

Mm-hm.

elliott

Uh, so they—they’re gonna go on this—but it w—I was—that was the—when—it was—when the Emperor—Emperor turned back I was like, came back I was like—alright, well I’m not crazy about that. But when I really turned on the movie was when they said R2-D2, uh—

stuart

[Through laughter] Not so fast, buddy!

elliott

Not for you, buddy! And it was like, did—did Kenny Baker ask for too much money? Like, I don’t understand. [Dan laughs.] So they are gonna go on this mission and the fact that Chewbacca’s with them means that later on—

crosstalk

Dan: Wait, wait. Hold on. Stuart: I feel like—I feel like most likely—

stuart

—What happened is that one commenter on Reddit was like, mmm, I don’t like R2-D2 anymore. [Dan and Elliott laugh.] And JJ’s like—okay. Okay. Anything.

dan

Maybe as the most-beloved character, R2 is the designated survivor. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: [Through laughter] Okay. That’s fair. That’s fair. All—they’re like— Stuart: Ohhhh! Yeah, yeah. Dan: Everybody else blows up, R2 is in a safe location.

elliott

No, R2. You need to stay here for future Star Wars adventures. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: Should we not come back. Stuart: That’s also—

stuart

That’s also why, when they finally reveal his voice, it’s Kiefer Sutherland, right? [All laugh.]

dan

Who is the most lovable Lost Boy—[breaks off, laughing.] [Stuart laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: [Through laughter] Certainly the most lovable Sutherland— Dan: [Through laughter] So he’s the designated survivor. [Laughs.]

elliott

Donald, I respect you more. But you’re hard to love. [Laughs.] You’re a little cold. Uh—so—they go to, uh, Pasaana. That’s the—that’s the planet where there’s a big, like, Burning Man party. And they—they are—uh-oh! Some Stormtroopers find them, but one of the Stormtroopers gets shot with a crossbow bolt. Who could it be? A masked stranger who turns out to be—it’s our old buddy Lando!

stuart

Uh-huh.

elliott

And… I’m just gonna say this. It was exciting to see Billy Dee Williams, again, but he is an old man. And so there’s something about having all these older characters coming back—and there’s a part at the end where I think Wedge shows up again? In a—in a fighter jet? And I was like, these guys are a little—a little old to be in a—in a real world, they would not be on the frontlines of this galactic battle.

dan

Now a little peek behind the scenes—

stuart

Uh-huh. Yep.

dan

This was the point at the movie—

elliott

Now you were on the scene—you were on the set when they shot this— [Dan laughs.] Right?

dan

And Billy Dee Williams was a perfect gentleman to me.

elliott

I mean, he seems to be a delight. A treasure. I love his work. Like, he’s great. And when he’s in the movie, it’s like—I love having him around in the movie, but I kept thinking—oh, this isn’t Lando. This is Billy Dee Williams. Like—

crosstalk

Elliott: The same way as when I— Dan: Okay. So—but—but—

elliott

Spoiler alert: Han Solo is—appears in a scene. And I was like, this is Harrison Ford. This is not Han Solo.

dan

That’s true.

elliott

Like, they didn’t feel like the characters to me.

dan

Uh, no. I just wanted to say, like, behind the scenes of me watching this—

elliott

[Through laughter] Oh, okay.

dan

[Through laughter] This was the—this—

crosstalk

Elliott: So not really behind the scenes so much as in front of the screen. Dan: This was the— [Laughs.]

dan

This was the moment that I had picked to run to the restroom? And when I came back, uh—

elliott

‘Cause you’d been eating a chalupa during the first part of movie.

dan

[Laughs.] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Uh, when I came back, my girlfriend—who—who has said, like, I—just a moment, I like—

stuart

Stop mentioning me on the podcast?

crosstalk

Stuart: Is that what she said? [Elliott laughs.] Dan: No, she said—

dan

No, she said, uh—

elliott

She was like, Harvey Dent showed up for some reason? [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]

dan

No, no. I—like, this is—this is a side thing. I’m gonna just call her by her name, which is Audrey from now on, ‘cause she’s like, you could use my name on the podcast. Originally she was like, maybe some private—privacy.

crosstalk

Dan: Now she’s like— Elliott: She—

elliott

She said to you, call me by your name. And you were like, Dan? They’re not gonna know if I’m talking about me or you!

dan

Well, we both realized that me—like, referring—

crosstalk

Dan: —to my girlfriend— Stuart: That’s a pretty topical joke, Elliott. That’s pretty good.

elliott

[Laughs.] He’s only had one movie since then, right? [Stuart laughs.] I mean, the authors only wrote a sequel since then.

stuart

Yeah.

dan

It was more that—at age 41, me referring to my girlfriend made it sound like I was a high-schooler pretending I had a girlfriend? [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

It made—it was a lot like when Uncle Owen in Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones, like—hey, this is my girlfriend, Beru, and you’re like— [Elliott laughs.] What the fuck?

elliott

So girlfriend is the—[though laughter] is the way you describe it?

dan

The point is—so I come back from, uh, the—the—the bathroom and I see that, uh… that Lando is onscreen and I’m like—and she—she’s like, you missed it! And I’m like—oh, you’ll explain later. And then— [Laughs.] Then I ask, oh, after the movie, I’m like, oh, what happened? When, uh, Lando showed up? And she’s like, eh. You didn’t miss anything. [Laughs.] [All laugh.]

elliott

Not really. Uh, so you saw in the theaters?

dan

I did see it in the theater.

elliott

‘Cause I watched the—I did—did not get to see it in the theaters, uh, due to various holiday scheduling, uh, difficulties. But luckily as a Writers Guild Awards voter, I received a digital screener that was watermarked just for me. Which meant my name, Elliott Kalan, was burned into the screen the entirety of the movie?

stuart

Oh, cool!

dan

Sort of like you were in Star Wars.

elliott

Finally! I was living my dream of being in Star Wars! But it had to be this Star War?! Anyway—

dan

[Through laughter] That’s a Monkey’s Paw situation.

elliott

So uh—again, if it was the Monkey’s Paw—by which I mean the chimp that was—

crosstalk

Elliott: [Through laughter] Wield—welding that helmet together— Stuart: Yeah, the monkey that re-forged that piece of merch. Dan: The Great Ape’s Paw. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

So—uh, Lando saves them and is like, hey, the Wayfinder’s probably over there. Oh, not the Wayf—the Wayfinder’s probably at this place. You need to find this, uh, this knife that belonged to an assassin named Ochi. Right? Uh, and—here’s his ship and his droid. And what was the droid’s name? The droid is like—it’s like a traffic cone on a pole on top of a ball. Or like a wheel.

dan

Let’s just call it Luxo Jr. [Laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Like, yeah. [Laughs.] [All laugh.] It did feel like it wandered out of a Pixar short. And the whole time I was like, this droid is weird. Like, I don’t understand the purpose—and I kept waiting for the moment when this droid would, like, have a plot purpose? Like, it would reveal a piece of information or it would save someone at the last minute or it would kill someone—

crosstalk

Elliott: —at the last minute? Dan: It did. It had a plot purpose, eventually.

elliott

What? I don’t remember!

dan

Like—like, it had like the knowledge of a thing. Right? Like, it was like, oh. [Sighs.] It—it knew where the thing was. I forget. Like, the—

crosstalk

Dan: —plot is so many MacGuffins, like we said earlier— Stuart: Hmm. Let’s see.

dan

It’s like, we leap to the one thing—oh wait. We need another thing. Now we need a third thing. But like, there was a point where, like, oh, we don’t know where… whoever is, and the—

elliott

Oh, that’s right.

crosstalk

Elliott: And the droid was like— Dan: And he’s like—

dan

We gotta talk to this droid. Uh, I think he’s got something important to say.

crosstalk

Elliott: But it’s like— Stuart: So this is right around where, like—

stuart

They—they sink in the quicksand and—and Finn’s like, hey Rey, I gotta tell you something! Oop! And then, uh, we never find out what that is. And then—

dan

No!

crosstalk

Stuart: And then—she battles some— Elliott: I don’t know if it—I—

stuart

—First Order dudes, and then.

elliott

Oh, and she saves that sandworm. She heals—there’s a wounded sandworm that looks like it’s gonna attack her—attack them, but she uses the Force—and this is important—we learn the Force can heal people.

crosstalk

Stuart: Uh-huh. I mean, I’d— Dan: Hold on. Hold on.

stuart

—learned that the day before I watched it, when I was watching The Mandalorian[Elliott laughs.] —and Baby Yoda used the same power. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Dan: That’s— Elliott: Well, I haven’t seen The Mandalorian yet.

stuart

But that’s why they released that episode early, so fans wouldn’t be like, this is bullshit!

dan

So the healing stuff is important to the plot, but I do also wanna get into, like, a little bit of the background of the, uh—

elliott

Of the sandworm?

dan

No, of the, like—

crosstalk

Dan: “I need to tell you—” Elliott: They make spice!

dan

The “I need to tell you something” thing.

elliott

Okay. Is this a real background of the movie or is this—

crosstalk

Dan: This is real background. Elliott: —when you were watching the movie.

dan

Because like… okay. On the internet, if you look into this thing—

stuart

Uh, like on Wookieepedia? Twitter?

dan

On Wookieepedia. Well, Twitter, act—uh—they—

elliott

What about Cookiepedia?

dan

Cookiepedia is— [Stuart and Elliott laugh.]

crosstalk

Dan: —about how cookies are now a sometimes food. Stuart: I’m gonna get another [inaudible]. Elliott: [Laughs.] Oh man.

dan

Did you just—just bring the bottle over here, Stuart. [Stuart inaudible in background.] And maybe like a—a—a bowl of ice. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] That’s what we need—

crosstalk

Dan: —to get through this. Elliott: To put your hand in? [Laughs.]

dan

Yeah, just to— [Stuart, inaudible in background.] No, um, what were we talking about? Oh.

elliott

So we’re talking about—Finn is like—Rey, I gotta tell you something!

crosstalk

Elliott: And then gets swallowed up by quicksand. Dan: Rey, I gotta tell you something.

dan

So like, there’s a lot of discussion about what this is on the internet, and people are like… oh, y’know, he was gonna say he loves her, which is the most obvious, like… interpretation of what’s going on, and maybe a thing that you would say when you were dying. But according to the internet, some fan— [Laughs.] Talked to JJ Abrams at a thing and JJ was like, no, no. I—he was gonna say that he’s Force-sensitive. [Stuart laughs.] Which to me would be the weirdest fucking thing to say while you were dying in quicksand. [Laughs.] Rey! Rey! Before we die, I just need you to know—

crosstalk

Elliott: Just so you know. Dan: [Through laughter] I also have the Force!

elliott

Until—and then they get—and then they get pulled into quicksand?

dan

Yeah. So that’s—

elliott

I think—

dan

—crazy.

elliott

I think—I mean, that actually was my guess, that that’s what he was gonna say. That like, I can do—

crosstalk

Elliott: I can do that, too. Dan: Why would you say that? Stuart: Oh, I—

stuart

I corked it again. [Laughs.]

dan

Thank you. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Uh, I don’t know. But—

stuart

So—we realize that he’s not nearly as special as she is, ‘cause in a second, she gets in a—what, a tug-o’-war with a, uh… transport ship?

crosstalk

Stuart and Elliott: With Kylo Ren.

elliott

So Kylo Ren has arrived there with his—his bad—his special select group of baddies who we never really see them do much of anything.

stuart

The Knights of Ren. Which, they—like—especially after The Last Jedi where we had those throne room dudes?

crosstalk

Elliott: Oh, which was amazing! Stuart: Who were fucking cool?

elliott

That was great!

stuart

Uh, these guys are just, like, some jokers with, like, shovels and axes and stuff. [Laughs.]

elliott

They just kind of loom around and they keep showing up in the background to be a threat. But we never—and they show up and they’re chasing after her, and Rey and Kylo Ren have the first of several fights during the movie. And in this one, there’s a transport ship that has Chewbacca with this magic dagger that has the information of where the Wayfinder is—

stuart

Uh-huh. Yep.

elliott

And that—and—it’s written in Sith. And C-3P0 understands Sith, but he has been programmed never to translate it because it’s an evil language. So they need the dagger and they need Chewba—they need the dagger ‘cause of the information—

crosstalk

Elliott: —and they need Chewbacca ‘cause he’s great. Stuart: I think they need the—

stuart

And then they need to get the galaxy’s greatest hacker to hack the information out of C-3P0’s noggin.

crosstalk

Elliott: Wait, wait! We haven’t got there yet! We haven’t got there yet! Dan: He has to hack the planet? [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

I mean, kinda! [Laughs.]

elliott

I mean, in that every droid’s soul is its own planet.

dan

Okay.

elliott

Uh, when you—when you kill a droid you kill a world. But uh—they’re fighting over this transport ship using the Force—

dan

So happy to see DJ Qualls show up later on! [All laugh.] Anyways.

elliott

And Rey, uh—and Rey… the Dark Side of her gets out of control and shoots out light—uh—Emperor-style lightning bolt at this transport ship and blows it up! And everyone’s like, noooo! Chewbacca! You killed him! Next scene: Chewbacca’s fine. He was on a different ship. What?! Like— [All laugh.]

stuart

There was a brief moment where I was like—I was not expecting this to happen! And then they— [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: Those hopes were dashed. [Laughs.] Elliott: If she—and it’s like—

elliott

It would’ve been a genuinely shocking death for Chewbacca. It would be a genuinely traumatic moment for her, that because the Dark Side of her came out, she lost control, she killed a friend! Someone who is—who has been a—the heart—one of the hearts of the Rebellion for years! But instead they’re like… tricked ya! And then later on, she’s like, Chewbacca’s okay! And they’re like, how do you know? She goes, she—he must’ve been in a different transport ship! And it’s like, then why did you think he was in that transport ship? [Dan laughs.] Like, what was the point of all that? But also, she doesn’t really give a shit about the real—the other people she killed on that transport ship. [Dan laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] Also it was kinda like… like the Stormtroopers were like, okay, Rey is looking the other direction for a second. Let’s hustle Chewbacca— [Stuart and Elliott laugh.] —over to this other ship!

crosstalk

Dan: [Through laughter] Let’s play a trick on her! Elliott: They’re like—they’re like—

elliott

[Through laughter] Kylo Ren’s, like, it’s time for a little bit of the old misdirection! [Dan laughs.] And then suddenly he has a card in his hand. He puts his hand down and he has a rabbit in the other hand. Uh— [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]

stuart

You guys are on decoy duty! Like, uh, wait a minute. I don’t wanna be on decoy duty! [Dan laughs.]

elliott

They have—what they saw was Don King in a huge fur coat— [Dan laughs.] —being hustled into that transport ship! [Stuart laughs.] They thought it was Chewbacca! Anyway. Uh… they—they have to go and rescue, uh, Chewbacca and, uh, event—oh no! First they go to Kijimi, which is a planet we’ve never—

dan

Kathy Najimy. [Laughs.]

elliott

They go to the planet [though laughter] Kathy Najimy, and—and they’re like—you’re so great. You are so great in King of the Hill; you’re so great in the Sister Act movies, like—you’re just an—a—you’re just a treasure! And she’s like, oh, thank you, well I’m just a modest person, y’know, I—I don’t—I don’t deal with praise well. And they’re like, but Kathy Najimy—no. [Dan laughs.] You are really great. And she’s like, [angrily] I told you I don’t deal with praise well! [Dan laughs.] And she just starts—

crosstalk

Elliott: And she just starts— [Laughs.] Dan: Bang! Bang! [Laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] I was just saying—gonna say swinging fists, but I guess. Yeah. I mean—everyone in this movie—someone on Twitter pointed out to me that, uh, the Stormtroopers frequently give the heroes a chance to surrender? And the heroes kill at first sight. [Stuart laughs.] When they see Stormtroopers.

dan

Yeah.

elliott

That like—everyone’s first instinct in this movie, if you’re a hero, is to shoot immediately. And just murder your way through the galaxy. But uh, they go to Kijimi which is—

crosstalk

Elliott: —because there’s someone. Stuart: Even—even when they find—

stuart

—that wounded sandworm, I think Finn’s like, [though laughter] kill that fucking thing, Rey! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

They are bloodthirsty. Uh, Poe is like, we gotta go find the best hacker in the universe. He’s on Kijimi. But uh-oh! I have some bad blood for me on Kijimi. And of course they run into the one person that he has a bad experience with, and that’s played by—

dan

Uh, Keri Russell?

elliott

Keri Russell! In a almost-entirely-masked performance, which I means—I think it’s just her voice.

dan

Yeah. It is her voi—well, she pulls her visor up at a sec—like, I was like—I know that voice. Who is it? Who is it? And then she put her visor up and I saw her impeccable eye makeup and I’m like, that’s Ms. Keri Russell.

stuart

And then—and then Dan looked at both his hands and he’s like, this movie has two Keri’s in it? [All laugh.]

dan

I mean, also, y’know, it’s a JJ Abrams movie, so him having Keri Russell makes perfect sense. I’m not saying she’s not wonderful. I love Keri Russell.

crosstalk

Stuart: Yeah, she’s great. Dan: I was happy to see her.

elliott

But I thought that—

stuart

You wouldn’t be like, uh, she’s a great, wonderful actress. Let’s stick a helmet on her the whole time. [All laugh.]

dan

[Through laughter] Yeah.

elliott

This character is, of course, named Zorii Bliss. [Dan laughs.] Because why not. And they—this—this character— [Stuart laughs.] —does not need to exist. There is no reason—

crosstalk

Elliott: —for this character. Dan: I thought—I thought they were [inaudible]. [Laughs.] Stuart: Just can’t—

dan

[Through laughter] Saw—saw Cats yesterday? So I think that I’m particularly in the right mood to find funny names. [Laughs.] [All laugh.] Even funnier. [Laughs.]

stuart

Uh—yeah. I mean… like… I—this could just be based on speculation I’ve read on the internet, but it seems like this character was induced—introduced mainly to give a hint of a heterosexual love interest for Poe? Uh, to—to take the fan, uh, assumption that Foe—uh, Poe and Finn—or “Foe,” as I just called them— [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: After their favorite form of beef soup. Stuart: Uh, as being—as— [Laughs.]

stuart

Uh—as being the ideal, uh, romantic relationship in these movies.

elliott

Now, all they could’ve had is just them not kiss. Poe and Finn.

stuart

Uh-huh.

elliott

And that would’ve been fine.

crosstalk

Stuart: Uh-huh. Dan: Mm-hm.

dan

And allow the people who would like to maybe see the representation of a gay relationship have that head canon if they’d like to!

elliott

Yeah sure! I mean, they could still have it. Poe could easily be bi or—

crosstalk

Elliott: —y’know, who knows what— Dan: Or, y’know, Keri Russell could be his beard.

dan

That’s—there’s always that chance.

elliott

That’s true. I mean, she—in a way, she—

crosstalk

Elliott: —was a beard. Stuart: I mean, she wears a helmet.

stuart

She—I mean, I guess we don’t know if she has a beard.

elliott

Look. She was on The Americans, home of lots of wigs and beards! [All laugh.] So I have to assume she’s—

crosstalk

Elliott: —familiar with beards and wigs! Dan: [Through laughter] That was the slogan! The American: Homes of Wigs and Beards! [Laughs.]

elliott

People are like, what’s that show about? And I’m like, you should see it. It’s about the craziest wigs [though laughter] and the craziest beards! [All laugh.] Uh—they—so they’re gonna go and do this thing. Meanwhile, Kylo Ren and Rey, we’ve established they can talk to each other through the Force throughout the universe—

stuart

We—we didn’t mention—there is a character that I like in this movie a lot. He’s introduced in this scene. His name’s Babu Frik. [Elliott laughs.] He’s a tiny little hacker. [Laughs.]

elliott

He’s a tiny hacker who sometimes speaks in a crazy alien language and sometimes just speaks with a heavy accent? [Dan laughs.]

stuart

Yeah. Uh… yeah. He’s pretty fun.

crosstalk

Stuart: And he’s got giant hands. Elliott: No, no, Babu Frick’s—

elliott

—my second-favorite new character after blacksmith chimp.

stuart

Uh-huh. Because he—he also, like, exists in a, uh, like there’s no subtext to Babu Frik? Like, he’s just—he’s all in. That’s what’s great about him.

elliott

But also—and later on, Zorii shows up as part of this giant fleet of, uh, volunteer fighters. And Babu just pops up in a cockpit and is like, hey, hey! [All laugh.] I was like, so are you not strapped in? [All laugh.] So when she does turn some barrel rolls are you just flying around the cockpit? Slamming into instruments?

dan

He’s like a little ghoulie, though. [Laughs.]

stuart

Like, he is a lot—

elliott

What, he’s gonna pop up out of a toilet? [Dan laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] Yep.

stuart

Yeah. I’m sure when the—the creature design team got together they’re like— [Dan laughs.] Give me 90% more ghoulie. [All laugh.]

elliott

So—and Stuart, what it is about Babu Frik that—that you particularly like?

stuart

Well, I like the—

elliott

Paint us a word poem.

stuart

I mean, it’s—I mean, making a character small and weird? Is always best. And he wears like a little hat. [Dan laughs. Elliott joins in.] Uh—

elliott

But he doesn’t have a shirt, though, right?

stuart

He doesn’t have a shirt and he’s, uh—everybody is really impressed with him, but they’re also annoyed by him. [Elliott laughs.]

dan

He seems like an old pro, too? Like, y’know, he’ll get the job done but you might get a little irritated. But—but—

stuart

Yeah! There’s a lot of mud on those tires. Y’know what I mean?

elliott

[Through laughter] He’s got a little bit of—he’s a little bit like Yoda that way. Where it’s like he’s the best, which means he’s allowed to be eccentric, but there’s also a little bit of battle toad in his visual! [Stuart laughs.] And I was like, that’s who! [Laughs.]

dan

He’s also kind of like a little bit like the IT guy who’s a little annoyed at you that you don’t understand the technology as well as he does.

elliott

That’s fair. That’s fair.

stuart

Yeah. I mean, there was a brief moment when I was watching a Star War— [Elliott laughs.] —and I saw a character that wasn’t Baby Yoda and I was like, I like that character! [Elliott laughs.]

dan

I want—I wanted to say here, though, but this connection between—uh—Rey and, uh, Kylo Ren—this—like—there’s a lot of The Last Jedi erasure in this movie that’s much more egregious than this? But I did watch that part where they’re like, connected and like talking to each other? And I’m like, okay. Wait. Hold on. I thought in The Last Jedi, the fact they had a connection was just something Snoke was doing to make, like, to fool them into thinking like to like bring her… to him that like… he might be redeemed or whatever. And this movie’s like, no, no, no, no. They really have, like—

crosstalk

Dan: —this soul connection. Elliott: Not only do they really have that—

elliott

—they can also transport objects through this Force connection. Which I thought was pretty—it was like—as long as I don’t try to think about the science of it? I thought was a really cool thing. Like—

crosstalk

Elliott: —and they use it in—they— Dan: Yeah, I thought it was kinda fun where—

dan

—they’re like having fights and they were like, yeah. [Inaudible.]

elliott

And they use it in neat ways. Like, he knows she’s in his office because… that Darth Vader helmet shows up. Or like, the first time that happens, he snatches the flower necklace from around her neck and she’s like, huh? Wha? Like—

stuart

That’s why that girl gave it to her!

elliott

Yeah, that’s the only reason. Is to establish that—that physical connection. But like—so I thought that was kind of a neat thing? But it also means that, like, apparently anyone with the Force can talk to anybody? ‘Cause later on, Princess Leia’s like, hold on, let me send a telegram to my son Kylo. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep! [Stuart laughs.]

dan

Speaking of that, like—uh—later on when like Luke does like a major thing with the Force that affects, like, the real, like, living human world? Like… granted, the seeds for that was—were planted by Yoda in The Last Jedi, a movie I liked a lot more than this one. But I am kind of like… okay, so… ghost Jedis can do anything normal Jedis can do? And they’re just kinda hanging out in the ghost dimension, being like, you guys take care [though laughter] of it yourself!

elliott

You’re wondering why—

crosstalk

Elliott: —ghost Luke didn’t just show up— Stuart: Mm-hm. Dr. Strange in the ghost dimension. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

That ghost Luke didn’t just show up at Emperor Palpatine’s house and like smother him with a pillow? [All laugh.]

dan

[Through laughter] Exactly!

stuart

Just like unplug his little machine? [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah! I mean—

stuart

The—y’know—and the—and the thing that ghost Luke does is he just raises his old X-Wing out of the water and you’re like… finally, dude! I’ve been waiting for you to be able to do that [though laughter] forever! [All laugh.]

dan

[Through laughter] Ever since Dagobah, man!

elliott

He was like, I couldn’t do this ‘til I was dead. Then I really figured out how to lift X-Wings with the Force.

dan

I mean, I—like, the funny thing is, like, yeah, sure. Like, that’s a—like—kind of like I guess a fun payoff for Empire? But I—all I could think of was like, that fucking thing’s been down there for 30 years, dude. Like… it’s not gonna fly [though laughter] anywhere! [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

Mm-hm.

elliott

Uh, well, this is—if that’s the thing you’re picking apart in the movie— [Dan laughs.] —then maybe Star Wars is not for you.

stuart

Yeah.

music

Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.

clip

Music: Upbeat rock plays in the background. Announcer: Dead Pilots Society brings you exclusive readings of comedy pilots that were never made, featuring actors like Patton Oswalt— Patton Oswalt: So the vampire from the future sleeps in the dude’s studio during the day, and they hunt monsters at night. It’s Blade meets The Odd Couple! [Audience laughs] Announcer: —Adam Scott and Jane Levy— Jane Levy: Come on, Cory. She’s too serious, too business-y. She doesn’t know the hokey-pokey. Adam Scott: Well, she’ll learn what it’s all about. [Audience laughs.] Announcer: —Busy Philipps and Dave Koechner.  Dave Koechner: Maybe this is family. Busy Philipps: My Uncle Tal, who showed his weiner to Cinderella at Disneyland, is family. Do you want him staying with us? [Light audience laughter.] Dave: He did stay with us, for three months. Busy: And he was a delight! [Audience laughs harder.] Announcer: A new pilot every month, only on Dead Pilots Society from Maximum Fun.

clip

Music: Guitar strums as singer counts out “One, two, one two three four.” Up-tempo guitar and harmonica music plays in the background. Justin McElroy: Hi, everybody! My name is Justin McElroy. Sydnee McElroy: I’m Sydnee McElroy! Justin: We’re both doctors, and— Sydnee: Nope. Just me. Justin: Okay, well Sydnee’s a doctor and I’m a medical enthusiast. Sydnee: Okay. Justin: And we created Sawbones, a marital tour of misguided medicine! Sydnee: Every week I dig through the annals of medical history to bring you the wildest, grossest—sometimes dumbest—tales of ways we’ve tried to treat people throughout history! Justin: Eh, lately we do a lot of modern fake medicine. ‘Cause everything’s a disaster. But it’s slightly less of a disaster every Friday, right here on MaximumFun.org, as we bring you Sawbones: A Marital Tour of Misguided Medicine. And remember: Sydnee: Don’t drill a hole in your head. [Music ends.]

dan

I mean—

elliott

This is a movie where they tried to hide a man from the most evil, most powerful man in the universe, and didn’t bother to change the baby’s last name. [Dan laughs.]

dan

Let’s just—

elliott

And they took him to his—they took him to—so let’s—so—you’re an evil—you’re an evil man. And they wanna hide your baby from you. They take you to your family’s house on your home planet and they don’t change the last name. They are fools [though laughter] in the Star Wars universe!

dan

Let’s just call this the X-Wing that broke the camel’s back. [Laughs.]

elliott

Alright. Fair. I mean, if you—to be fair, if you put an X-Wing on a camel’s back, that camel’s back is breaking!

dan

I was rolling with—

elliott

They may be the ships of the desert, but they cannot hold a spaceship!

dan

I was rolling with so much in this movie, and then [though laughter] he like raised the X-Wing out of the water and I went [makes spit-take noise]. [Elliott laughs.] And like—and put my hands up and Audrey’s like, what? [Laughs.] I’m like, you know what.

elliott

Well, you put your hands up ‘cause they were playing your song and the butterflies flew away.

stuart

Mm-hm.

elliott

But, uh—so— [Laughs.] ‘Cause it was a party in the USA! On that weird—what’s the planet where Luke was just living tended by those nuns? And he would just drink—

stuart

Oh, and he was drinking titty milk? [Laughs.]

elliott

Drinking Dr. Seuss milk. [Laughs.]

dan

That wasn’t a whole planet. It was like on a specific island where—

elliott

Uh, the island was on a planet, dude.

dan

[Through laughter] I know.

elliott

Like, Dan, I—the island was not floating in space like the Little Prince was living there with his one chair.

dan

No, I get it. This islander—

crosstalk

Stuart: Or like, uh—or like— Dan: —with everything. That’s fine. [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

Or like Thanos’s weird, uh, like, meteorite in the, uh—

crosstalk

Stuart: Infinity Gauntlet. Elliott: Where he just has his floating throne, yeah.

elliott

So okay. They have to get the information from C3P0’s mind. To do it, they have to wipe his memory. And that was a genuinely affecting moment where he’s like, oh, he’s giving this up. This is the first time C-3P0 has been, like, I’m gonna make the choice to really sacrifice myself for the—for the Rebellion. Again, this would’ve been a really fitting and kinda surprising death for a main character. Don’t worry. R2 just—brings him back later and it’s totally cool.

stuart

But didn’t, uh—didn’t—

crosstalk

Stuart: —didn’t he get his— Dan: Yeah. C3P0’s in the cloud. [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

Didn’t he get his memory wiped, uh, at the end of Revenge of the Sith as well? So he— [Laughs.] He doesn’t remember the details of Anakin’s wedding? [All laugh.]

elliott

Well that’s—‘cause the wedding was such a debacle. [Laughs.] They like—

dan

Okay. Guys—guys this is—this is a total like side thing but I have to tell you—uh—we watched this, uh, Christmas Netflix movie?

crosstalk

Elliott: Yeah, Emmet Otter. Dan: Or what—

crosstalk

Dan: I was on like Hulu or something, actually. Stuart: The Irishman. [Elliott laughs.]

dan

It was like—it was called Correcting Christmas or something? It was like a Sliding Door scenario where, like, she goes back in time to like—

elliott

To save Jesus?

dan

[Through laughter] She goes back in time— [Elliott laughs.] —to the previous Christmas. Where she like had broken up with her old, like, uh… like fiancé? Or—or—

crosstalk

Dan: She broke up with her old boyfriend. Stuart: How—how—how old was he?

dan

Okay. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] She broke up with—

elliott

[Through laughter] It was the Anna Nicole Smith story. So he was very old.  [Laughs.]

dan

She broke up with her previous boyfriend—sorry—because she thought he was gonna propose on Christmas and he didn’t, and then she regretted it so she went back. But she learned—obviously—she was supposed to be with her best friend the whole time.

elliott

Ohhhh.

dan

But the hilarious thing is—

elliott

A lie that has ruined the friendships of many young men and girls.

dan

Yeah. No. That’s—

elliott

Because the men assume that the girl will eventually become their lover!

dan

But the whole point of [though laughter] all this is, the movie does one of those, like, flash-forward things where like, okay, the mystical stuff is done. We’re in the present day again. And now, like… the two of them are like, married. And this is revealed by the guy being, like, oh, you left your ring by the sink! I want you to put it on ‘cause I don’t like all those guys hitting on you! And Audrey’s like—they took her back and they didn’t get to see the proposal?! [Elliott laughs.] Like, the fucking, like— [Laughs.] Fairy Godmother character like skipped over that part? She doesn’t get to have her proposal? [Laughs.] What the fuck?

stuart

Yeah.

dan

And this is like a romance movie! That’s the only [though laughter] reason these movies exist is for, like, the climactic, like—they come—they’re like finally together!

elliott

It’s—it’s as true as it is relevant to our discussion of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

stuart

It’s similar to how—it’s similar to how my wife recently read a, uh… a thriller and part of the mystery or thriller hinged on the idea of one woman letting another woman borrow her mascara? [Dan and Elliott laugh.] And she was like—that would never happen. [All laugh.] Adults don’t do that. It goes in your eyeball. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

So, uh, make a long story short—uh, Kylo tells Rey the truth: you’re a Palpatine. You’re the granddaughter of the Emperor. And she’s like, ew! So the Emperor had sex with somebody? And had a baby?! And we’re like, yeah. We don’t wanna think about it either.

stuart

I mean, like, how long ago was that, though?

crosstalk

Stuart: So she’s like— Elliott: I mean, it would’ve been when he was a senator probably.

stuart

She was like… she’s what, like, 25?

elliott

I have no idea.

stuart

And her parents were like…

crosstalk

Elliott: I mean, Luke is supposed to—Luke is— Stuart: Let’s say 25? So that was like 50 years ago.

elliott

Yeah.

stuart

So that’s about when Yoda and Yaddle were presumably having sex to create [though laughter] Baby Yoda. [All laugh.]

elliott

You’re right. Possi—I mean, I don’t wanna think about that either.

stuart

Once again, I haven’t read—read Wookieepedia. Have you, Dan? Do you know?

elliott

So—so—when Yoda has—

crosstalk

Elliott: —sex, is—is—is Yoda’s—is Yoda’s sex talk in that same backwards syntax, or no? Dan: Like, front to back? Or— [Laughs.] Stuart: Yeah! [Laughs.] It’s always—

stuart

Uh… what?

elliott

Like, is he like, “Coming, I am!” [All laugh.]

dan

Oh, God.

stuart

Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s how, uh… yeah. [Elliott laughs.] No. Weirdly enough when he does—

crosstalk

Elliott: [Through laughter] He’s like—he’s just like— Stuart: When he does dirty talk—

stuart

—that shit goes by the wayside and he is all business. [All laugh.]

elliott

That’s not like, “Right there, touch me!” None of that?

stuart

He’s like—I’m not fucking around. [All laugh.]

elliott

It’s time for bad Yoda to come out!

crosstalk

Stuart: Yep. Dan: Yeah.

elliott

Okay. So—

dan

Is this how Baby Yoda happened?

crosstalk

Dan: Or—I haven’t watched the rest of— Stuart: He’s super into Force-choking. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] No, I don’t like that!

crosstalk

Dan: I haven’t watched— Elliott: Stuart, I don’t like that at all. I don’t like it as a joke. Stuart: Well, you don’t do it to the windpipe!

stuart

You do it to the sides of the neck!

elliott

No, I don’t like this. [Laughs.] It’s not okay!

dan

It’s all consensual!

elliott

No, no.

dan

I don’t understand why you’re—

elliott

I mean, this brings back something that I think I mentioned a lot—years ago on this podcast, which is the idea of having a—a—having a significant other who’s a Jedi and they give you a Force job. Even in public. Even if you’re across the room, then you—they can pleasure you ‘cause no one knows! They’re just moving their hands! [Stuart laughs.] So anyway.

stuart

It’s like if Garth Ennis wrote a fucking [though laughter] Star Wars comic. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

So—okay. Uh… they—the whole—they—the Emperor wants Rey for some reason. We don’t know. It turns out that General Hux is the mole in the First Order and he helps save Poe and Finn and Chewbacca, and he’s like, I’m the spy! And they shoot him in the knee and he gets caught almost instantly and is executed for treason.

stuart

Uh-huh. Which—while, yeah, I guess that was kinda funny how he got blasted across the room and it was a surprise—once again, this is another character that I felt like was given short shrift. Like, Hux was one of the more fun parts of the last movie, and—

elliott

And in—in the—in The Force Awakens, he’s being built up as the bad guy!

crosstalk

Elliott: Him and Kylo Ren are the two dude—bad dudes. Dan: And also like—

dan

I mean, what a—

crosstalk

Dan: What a fucking good actor, too. Stuart: Yeah. Two bad dudes!

dan

That guy, like… every different movie I’m like, [with exaggerated surprise] it’s the same man? [All laugh.]

stuart

[Through laughter] Yeah. Yeah. [Elliott laughs.] Yeah. And he’s standing right next to Adam Driver, who I guess is the best actor of his generation. Right?

elliott

I mean, to be honest, this—this movie has—it has them, it has Richard E. Grant? Like, there’s a lot of really great actors in this.

stuart

Ian McDiarmid? [Elliott laughs.]

dan

I mean, I—

elliott

[Through laughter] Sure.

dan

Look, Daisy Ridley, like—this might not be our best Star Wars movie, but she’s amazing. Like—

crosstalk

Dan: Like all the actors are great in this movie! Stuart: Mm-hm. Elliott: She does something that—she does something that makes sense—

elliott

—but I thought was really funny, which—she has a lot of, like, athlete motions? So like, there’s a part where she’s gotta run into the ocean or something and she’s like— [Stuart laughs.] —and she goes like, [exhales sharply] Hoo! Hoo! Like, breathes out and shakes her head the way that like an athlete does before they runs? And then later on, she like, is lightsabering and she—her wrist hurts a little bit? And she has this, like, ahhh! Look on her face that tennis players get sometimes? And I was like—it is a totally valid choice as a performer—and I also think it’s kinda funny—that she’s playing Rey as like a Jedi athlete? But I think, like, that’s not something I had not seen before with these characters! Like, that was a neat way to do it. Long story short, they go to the planet where the Death Star crashed. There’s a whole tribe of ex-Stormtroopers there who ride around on alien horses. They have no personalities whatsoever. Uh, Finn instantly becomes best friends with one who I’m learning the name of is named Jannah—I did not know her name during the movie.

stuart

And it feels like they—the movie wrote off Rose so they could give—at least to me, felt like they could give Finn a new, sexier love interest.

elliott

Maybe.

stuart

Like, one that is dressed at least more—

crosstalk

Stuart: —scantily clad. Dan: Well, and I don’t wanna, like— [Sighs.]

dan

Look. This is—these are—are—uh… murky waters and I don’t wanna like call anyone out unnecessarily. I don’t wanna say anything weird, but it did, like—I did feel weird watching it? Where they’re just like—no, no, no, Finn. Like, let’s give you a black love interest.

elliott

No, no. I mean, that—that did strike me, too, that it—that it was event—that it was like… yeah, yeah, yeah. Well we have to pair him up with a black character.

dan

Yeah.

elliott

‘Cause it’s—and—

crosstalk

Dan: It was weird. Elliott: But they’re—what—

elliott

At the same time, though, there was something genuinely exciting to me at the end where Land—spoiler alert—we won’t spoil anything—Lando in the—is flying the Millennium Falcon and he saves the two of them and they’re all together. Somehow they’re gripping the top of the Millennium Falcon as it swoops and dives through the space. Where I was like—this ship has only black characters on it. And it is really exciting to me that this scene is all black characters. So there’s a thin line between it feeling like tokenism, where you have to line up black people with black people? And being exciting that it’s like, okay, there’s more people of color in Star Wars now.

dan

No, that’s all fair.

elliott

It’s not just Lando, and it’s not just Oola. Those are not the only two people—and Max Rebo. Those are not the only characters— [All laugh.] —of color!

crosstalk

Dan: Okay. I didn’t realize, but. Elliott: [Through laughter] In the Star Wars universe now!

elliott

Y’know, blue, green, and so forth. But—uh—so—it’s—so—but it felt weird at that—at the moment. Until that moment, it felt weird to me that it was like—

dan

Yeah.

elliott

Uh, that—that they were doing that. But anyway. Long story short, they go to the Death Star. Guess what? Ky—uh, Rey sees herself as a Sith and has a fight with herself.

stuart

And Sith version has, like, cool scary teeth, right?

elliott

Cool, scary, sharp teeth. And a double-headed lightsaber that she can also separate out, which was explained to me today by a seven-year-old as maybe it had magnets in the base and that’s how it’d connect? And I was like—that’s a good way to explain that!

dan

Was that seven-year-old part of the Insane Clown Posse, or? [All laugh.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Yeah, he was like, I don’t know how they work! But. No, no. He—this seven-year-old is, uh, not an Insane Clown. Uh, anyway. So—

dan

A rational clown. [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

He’s a— [though laughter] very rational clown. Yeah. His name is Professor Pickles. [All laugh.] He is a clown with a PhD.

dan

His—he did his study in fitting as many clowns into a car as possible.

elliott

Well, he figured out the—the mathematic equation that explains the physics of how you can fit so many clowns into a car. They call it “Pickles’ Theorem.” [All laugh.] And so—the, uh—they—so Kylo Ren has another lightsaber fight with Rey, and—Prin—General Princess Leia—this is also—they’ve been told, oh, the Emperor is gonna attack the whole universe with his fleet of Star Destroyers in 16 hours. We’d better get a move on! Then they have an adventure that must take three days, but anyway. Uh—General Princess Leia’s like, this is a good time for me to reach out to my son. We never talk anymore. And she sends a Force message across the universe to him—

stuart

So she’s a lot like me, whenever I need to actually call someone on the phone, I like— [though laughter] have to get my whole environment set up— [Elliott laughs.] Like, everybody leave the room, I’m gonna need the room. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: And she distracts— Dan: Let me light some incense. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

She distracts Kylo just enough for Rey to mortally wound him. But then—just like he was a regular old sandworm—

stuart

Uh-huh. Once again, this is a moment where I’m like—oh, wow! I wasn’t expecting this to happen!

elliott

No. And then she—she heals him using her sandworm healing powers. Uh—and then… Rey goes to a—oh—

stuart

Yeah, ‘cause he’s a— [Laughs.] He’s a lot like a sandworm, right? [Laughs.]

elliott

[Laughs.] Yeah! I mean, I dunno. They—the, uh—Rey goes to where Luke’s—

crosstalk

Elliott: —ghost still lives— Stuart: I guess when the lights were out. Y’know. In the dark. Dan: Yeah. [Elliott laughs.]

dan

When the lights are out, everyone’s a sandworm! [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

Uh, Lei—Lei—Rey goes to Luke’s old house—

stuart

[Through laughter] If you’re doing it right! [All laugh.]

elliott

Anyway, ghost Luke is like—hey, you should take Leia’s old lightsaber. You’re doing good. Go up to the Emperor and kick him in the nuts. [Dan laughs.] [Through laughter] Here’s—here’s my own—here’s my old X-Wing. I lifted it out of the water for you. And Kylo Ren has a conversation with—not the ghost of—but his memory of Han Solo. Where Han Solo’s like, hey, you could be a good guy. And Kylo Ren throws his lightsaber away. And starts calling himself Ben again. Right?

stuart

Mm-hm.

dan

Yeah.

elliott

‘Cause—‘cause his name is Ben Solo.

stuart

I gotta say, like, there’s—like—

elliott

And Palpatine is like, mm, it’s been a while since I’ve been in the movie! Blow up Kijimi with a superlaser! [Laughs.]

dan

Maybe it was just ‘cause I liked seeing Harrison Ford again ‘cause I have so much— [Stuart laughs.] —so much affection for that dude.

stuart

‘Cause you—you like seeing him and being, like, I bet he hates this. [Laughs.] [All laugh.]

dan

Yeah. But like—I just—like—I—

elliott

I—I—imagine it’s one of those things where they were like, we’ll pay you any amount of money. And he’s like, don’t bother about the money. I’m gonna make some weird requests. [Stuart laughs.] And I’m gonna see if it’s worth it to you to make me have it. So—you heard of aye-ayes? Yeah, they’re these little weird primates? I want you to go get me one. [Laughs.] They’re very hard to find, and they’re endangered. It’s illegal to move them out of the rainforest. And also, again, they’re very hard to find. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I’ve always wanted a pet aye-aye, so you better get me one in two days. No, you know what? 36 hours. And then I’ll be in your Star War. And so JJ Abrams is hacking through the jungle—at night, mind you, it’s a nocturnal animal—until he can find and trap an aye-aye and hand-deliver it to Harrison Ford. And when Har—

crosstalk

Elliott: —when he brings it to—and when he— Stuart: I’m gonna—I’m gonna google this afterwards. Are they—

stuart

—hackers? [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Yup! When he brings it—no— [Laughs.] Yeah, they’re hackers! And when he brings it to Harrison Ford, Harrison Ford’s like, cool, I changed my mind. I don’t want it anymore. [All laugh.] So—so here’s—now you gotta go to numbers ten— two through ten on my checklist. [Laughs.]

dan

Okay. What I wanted to say though [though laughter] before—

crosstalk

Elliott: Sure. About Harrison Ford. Yeah. Star of Random Hearts. Yeah. [Stuart laughs.] Dan: —before that thing. No, no. [Laughs.] And Six Days, Seven Nights.

elliott

[Through laughter] Six Days, Seven Nights. And the Frisco Kid.

crosstalk

Elliott: All your favorite movies! [Laughs.] Star of Firewall, yeah! [Laughs.] Dan: And Regarding Henry. [Laughs.] But, no—no— [Laughs.]

elliott

No wonder he has such a deep place in your heart! He was in, uh, what was that movie that we watched with, uh, the lesser Hemsworth where he was like a hacker or something?

dan

Oh, uh… shit. What was that called?

stuart

Probably… Codebreakers? [Elliott and Stuart laugh.]

dan

No, but the thing I wanted to say about this was, like, so—like—look. I was talking to Audrey about, like, George Lucas and this—this whole fucking shebang of Star Wars.

elliott

Yeah. This thing we call Star Wars.

dan

And I want to make it clear, like, she’s not, like, a Star Wars fan. She saw like these movies, like—like the original trilogy for the first time this year. So like this is not like me Dan-splaining to her. She was curious about this.

elliott

I mean, I might still be you Dan-splaining.

dan

It might still be my Dan-splaining. But she seemed genuinely interested. [Laughs.] Perhaps she was just being nice. Uh, but like—George Lucas—I was saying that like y’know he had this idea of… okay, I’m gonna make these, like—like, uh, rhyming trilogies. Like, I—I want the movies to rhyme in these different ways, which—in effect in these new movies has led to… uh, like, even though he’s not been, uh… involved in them, that spirit lives on. And it’s just like, let’s, like, re—like, retread certain plot points or certain things. Um. Uh, in these new movies. And—at its worst, y’know, you get like movies like… The Force Awakens, or this one. Which, like—

crosstalk

Elliott: I liked TheDan: The Force Awakens, I liked.

elliott

The first half of Force Awakens, I really liked a lot! Yeah.

dan

But they like borrow so much from the old movies that it seems like less like rhyming and more like… just a retread.

elliott

Just retreading, yeah.

dan

But there are ways of doing parallel scenes that work well, and I—and for me—just for me, like—I kind of enjoyed this parallel scene with Harrison Ford where it’s like, okay, Kylo Ren is re-playing the moment where he killed his father. He’s at a different place in his life. He’s confused and this time he makes the moral choice instead and throws his lightsaber away.

elliott

Oh, no. I thought this was one of the scenes that worked best for me in the movie. For that reason.

stuart

And it helps that—like—Adam Driver is a genuinely good actor.

elliott

Adam Driver’s a great actor. Harrison Ford’s a great actor. Like, they have—and this moment has a lot of emotion freighted to it that is real human emotion. He is a man who killed his father and betrayed his mother’s dreams for him. And like that’s a real human thing. As opposed to… your grandfather is an evil wizard and wants to steal your body to make you the ultimate avatar of evil. That is not a human emotion and it’s not something I can connect to, really.

stuart

And your mother is Villanelle from Killing Eve.

dan

Mm-hm. [Elliott laughs.] That’s gotta be hard.

elliott

[Through laughter] Yes, difficult.

dan

She’s always trying to kill Eve! I don’t know. I—watched the first season and I forget what happens.

elliott

But you’re right that like—at a certain point, rhyming becomes repeating?

dan

Yeah.

elliott

And that—and this—but this was one of the scenes where it was like—and it would’ve done better for me if it didn’t feel at times like the movie was like… hey! We’re bringing back all your old pals! Come on! They’re all here! You liked these characters, right? Like, c’mon! Bring ‘em in! Like, I was half waiting for, like, Jabba the Hutt to show up and tell somebody that he was their dad. And like… like, uh… like, uh…

crosstalk

Stuart: It’s like—it’s like this— Elliott: Lobot to show up and—

elliott

—and tell a new cyborg, like, hey, you gotta do it for the Rebellion. Y’know.

crosstalk

Stuart: It’s like they’re— Dan: Gonk droid just like— [Elliott laughs.]

dan

—ducks his head in your frame and goes “gonk” and then…

crosstalk

Dan: —ducks back out. Stuart: It’s like—it’s like— Elliott: I would’ve liked that.

stuart

It’s like that scene near the end of Labyrinth, wherein those weird packrat, uh, monsters keep being like, oh, you like this thing! Keep—oh, you want this! Take that.

elliott

Yeah. Exactly.

stuart

What—what an interesting commentary on nostalgia. Thank you, Labyrinth! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Uh—

dan

Thank you for that and the sexual awakening of millions. [All laugh.]

elliott

Yeah. So they—so they destroy that planet. Uh, C3P0, he gets his memory back from R2D2, and they all go to—they follow Rey on her trip to—‘cause Rey now has a Wayfinder that helps her get to Exegol, the evil Sith planet that nobody ever knew about before. [Stuart laughs.] It’s not even the first mystery plant in Star Wars, ‘cause Geonosis—right? Oh, no, what was—no. Uh, Ferrari Carrera? What was the planet where they were making the clones?

stuart

Kamino?

elliott

Kamino Borealis? Kamino Real? Yeah.

stuart

Yeah, ‘cause it was a— [Laughs.] It was, uh, deleted from the Jedi dictionary by— [Laughs.] Sifo-Dyas. [All laugh.]

dan

Well I also—

elliott

You’re right. Star Wars has always been dumb. [Laughs.]

dan

I also—I used to find it funny that, like, um… y’know, like all of the Star Wars planets had one type of ecosystem? But it’s—

elliott

Yeah. Snow. Forest. Desert. Or city/factory!

dan

But that’s not, like, entirely crazy. Like, obviously the—there are planets out there that are, like, the same thing all through the planet. But this—

elliott

I mean, those are planets that have—as far as we know—no inhabited life, yeah.

dan

But that’s also, like, this—this planet I feel like bumps it up to the next level? Where it’s like—not only is this planet like this type, but like only this type of people live there.

crosstalk

Elliott: It’s the evil planet! [Laughs.] Dan: It’s like the Sorting Hat—

dan

—has put, like, all the Slytherin on this planet. [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

They’re like, this planet is naturally an evil habitat. [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: So all the animals are always— Stuart: And they’re like—we’re—

stuart

We’re equal kids! We get to go to the same classes! [All laugh.]

elliott

But now you—now you have me thinking that there’s, like, an ecosystem of like, where bunny rabbits are like—[in sinister voice] heh, heh, heh! [Dan laughs.] Like—or like—rubbing their hands together and hopping away into the—into the trees. Y’know. So uh—they—they all go there—

stuart

Yeah. They have a— [Laughs.] They have a lightning-based economy. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

There’s this fleet of Star Destroyers that’s already there, which… most of them were there already, but then—

crosstalk

Elliott: —the bad guys from the rest of the movie are there, too. Stuart: And didn’t they, like—didn’t they, like—

stuart

Didn’t they, like, squirt out of the fucking ground? Like little plants?

elliott

Yeah.

stuart

Like—that… I mean… a Star Destroyer wouldn’t survive being in—like—they’re not in—uh—like—the gravity well type ships, right?

crosstalk

Elliott: Well, but here’s the—well, but here’s the thing. Stuart: They can’t be in atmosphere! They’re way too heavy!

elliott

They’re way too heavy. They would get—but they would destroy all sorts of stuff. But also, they’ve just been floating in the air, idling, for days it seems. And that’s, one, against the law. You can’t idle for more than 15 minutes, I think, in New York City. But also, like…

dan

Also there’s a film shoot going on there. They’re shooting The Rise of Skywalker[All laugh.] [Through laughter] They can’t—they can’t park there!

elliott

[Through laughter] Yeah! [Laughs.] Wonder if they see orange cones in the sky? But it’s like—they’re just kinda hanging around waiting. And there’s something about it where I was like, I can’t tell if this is a really cool image, or if it’s really dumb. And it was like, if this was like a Yoda Ravski Mobius comic, I’d be like this is really cool. This endless sky of just hugely—huge—this dreadnaught juggernaut ships. But here it was like… so are they gonna do anything? Or is the Emperor just gonna look at ‘em and masturbate at all these ships that he’s got? Like—

stuart

I mean, he kinda does. Right?

elliott

I mean, he does kinda—in—the Emperor is just kinda like—

crosstalk

Elliott: —hanging— [Laughs.] Stuart: And he starts squirting lightning up there.

elliott

So that’s what it is? He’s ejaculating lightning? The Emperor also is like—just hanging around? Doing nothing? And it’s one of these things where it’s like—so what is the Emperor doing to pass the hours while he’s just hanging around on this—in this machine arm?

stuart

He’s doing, like, warm-up comic shit for that— [Elliott laughs.] —assembled crowd. [Laughs.]

elliott

Who here is from Exegal? Oh, you? Well, the thing about Jedis is… that’d be so funny.

stuart

Ooohh! I can’t wait to hear this!

elliott

I’d love to see him doing crowd work. That’d be so amazing. Um—so Rey shows up and he’s like, you wanna kill me? Good! That’s what I want, too! When you kill me—let me explain, it’s a little crazy— [Dan laughs.] When you kill me, my spirit will go into you and with me comes all the Siths, so you’ll be the most powerful Sith and you’ll be the Empress of the Universe, but it’ll be really me inside of you. And I know it’s kinda creepy that I’m a grandpa and I wanna get inside my granddaughter—that’s—it’s weird, yes, it’s—but it’s me—just my spirit.

stuart

It’s like, have you ever—there’s this cool story by Lovecraft. [Elliott laughs.] It’s one of the less, uh, not-so-cool ones, if you know what I mean. [Dan laughs.]

elliott

But uh—the—it’s a weird plan and it also doesn’t feel very Star Wars-y? It feels very magical and like—like—to put it—not to put it—this kind of point on it—

crosstalk

Elliott: —but Lord of the Rings-y? Or something? Stuart: Elliott just pointed at me like he’s—

stuart

—about to shoot me with force lightning.

dan

I mean, it feels Star Wars-y in that it is a complete exact retread of the end of Return of the Jedi, where he’s like, [mimicking Emperor Palpatine’s voice] yes, yes! Your anger! Strike me down!

elliott

No, no. But there—but there the assumption was—I—you’re gonna turn evil, and that’s gonna be good for me. Whereas here it’s like—you’re gonna turn evil, but then I’m gonna enter your body and you’re gonna have—you’re gonna be possessed by the souls of the Sith. But also, it was one of those things where it was like—so… so like… she can—so you can never—it’s—it’s a real convenient thing for the bad guy to say. To be like—if you kill me, I’m gonna win! So I guess you can’t stop me. And it’s like—I wish he had just—

stuart

Mm-hm. Diplomatic immunity! [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

elliott

I wish he—I had—there were two ways I wanted her to end this, which are not it. One was for her to be like, bullshit, and then kill him and he’ll be like, oh I was lying! [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: [Through laughter] And he’s just dead. You called my bluff! You’re— Stuart: Oh! Called my bluff! Grandma’s little girl!

elliott

You’re the first Jedi ever to think of that! But the other one was, he keeps saying—if you kill me out of hate—and then he’s pointing at her friends in the sky who have—who have appeared and are fighting these ships and are all dying. And he’s destroying them with lightning bolts and he’s like, you can’t save—if you wanna save your friends, you gotta kill me, but then I’m gonna win! Look at this! Isn’t it a real Catch-22? Yes, we have that novel in this universe! But—and I wanted her—this is—if I had been writing this movie, which I was not—I would’ve wanted her to say—him to be like—you can’t—you—you can’t kill me out of anger! And for her to say, like… something about her friends and be like, I’m not killing you out of anger. I’m killing you out of love. And then just chop his head off.

crosstalk

Stuart: Well that was like—I would— Elliott: And I was like, waiting—

elliott

—for that moment. And instead—Kylo shows up and he’s like, mmm! Now I’m gonna feast on your friendship! [Laughs.] And it was like—wait—what? How many rules are you making up as you go along?

crosstalk

Stuart: I don’t know— Dan: Yeah, well—but also, like—

dan

Like, I don’t wanna leap ahead, but I’m going to.

stuart

You can, yeah.

elliott

There’s not that much of the movie left.

dan

Like—like—

elliott

Elliott: This scene goes on for a long time. Dan: Kylo comes—

dan

Kylo comes back and like… whatever. Like, uh… well, let’s—I—

stuart

You said—you said Kylo, not Kyle. ‘Cause if Kyle Katarn showed up—

crosstalk

Elliott: I would’ve been like—yes. Stuart: I’d have been like—what? [Laughs.]

elliott

Instantly great.

dan

Yeah. Like, all this shit happens—

stuart

Yeah, if Dash Rendar showed up and helped out at the end—

crosstalk

Stuart: —it’d have been crazy! Elliott: They’re like— Dan: Well—wel—

elliott

They’re like—they’re like—yes. All the LucasArts games are officially canon now!

dan

We’ll—we’ll—we’ll loop—

elliott

What, Full Throttle? And then Full Throttle and Grim Fandango show up. Here’s Sam and Max! They hit the road to Star Wars? [Dan laughs.] Maniac Mansion is here?

dan

[Through laughter] Indiana Jones! You found Atlantis? [Elliott laughs.] No, um—we’re gonna—I’m gonna—

elliott

Oh, that reminds me of this—that—that great Star Wars comic where the Millennium Falcon lands—uh, crash-lands on earth thousands of years ago? And then—and Chewbacca becomes, uh, becomes the abominable—becomes, uh, Bigfoot and Indiana Jones stumbles on this—this old spaceship with a skeleton in it? And he’s like—hm. This is weird. [Laughs.] I was like, oh, what a great story! Harrison Ford finds his own dead body.

dan

Um… I wanna—I wanna loop—I—we can loop back and get the stuff that I—

crosstalk

Dan: I’m skipping over? Elliott: We’ll loop back and—and kill our loopers, yeah.

dan

What I’m—uh, you can get the stuff I’m skipping over. But eventually, like, Rey—spoiler alert—kills Palpatine by, like—like basically like reflecting his, like, zaps back at him? And I’m just like—

crosstalk

Elliott: The old—the old zap-back attack. Dan: Okay. That’s the old—

dan

That’s the loophole in this. Like, you can’t strike me down in anger, but if I’m angrily zapping you and you reflect it at me— [Elliott laughs.] Then everything’s cool. [Laughs.]

elliott

And—and—and like—the thing—and the thing that got me was she was like, yeah. I can’t kill someone in anger! Even if he’s the evilest man in the world! I guess I’ll just cold-bloodedly kill all these child soldiers that are in armor! They have masks, so I can’t see their faces so they’re not people to me. Anyway. Poe Dameron, he’s like—we gotta get—there’s a bunch of crap about how—

crosstalk

Elliott: —they have to blow up a— Stuart: He’s a general at this point. Right?

elliott

He’s a general. They—

stuart

Might wanna call him General Dameron, then. [All laugh.]

elliott

Sorry. General Dameron.

crosstalk

Dan: [Through laughter] Show him the respect of his rank. Elliott: [Through laughter] Gotta respect the rank.

elliott

Even though I don’t respect the man who holds it. [Dan and Stuart laugh.] The uh—they—like—they’re—they’ve got this—they gotta destroy a transmitter because the Star Destroyers can’t not crash into each other without this transmitter, and they—he’s like—we’ll send out a message for all the volunteers. We’re gonna Dunkirk this. We’re gonna have a fleet of civilian ships come in. But nobody’s showing up—

crosstalk

Elliott: —and then at the last minute— Stuart: I also love that—

stuart

I love that they also, like, made a point of being, like, in the last movie we tried to get people to show up but they wouldn’t! ‘Cause the movie wasn’t as good! [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

And uh—they—

dan

I mean, the charitable—look. There is a charitable, like, interpretation, which is—

stuart

Uh-huh. Yeah. Go on.

dan

They have to try and get everyone to show up in the last movie and them not come for it to pay off—

crosstalk

Dan: —in this movie that they do come. Elliott: No, no! I thought—I did—

elliott

I didn’t take that as necessarily comment on the last one. But it did—what bothered me was, they all show up. And he’s like, they did it! We did it! I am the greatest! Take that, dead Laura Dern! I’m the greatest! But then they show up, and—and, uh, Richard E. Grant—who, again—I love.

crosstalk

Elliott: He’s great in everything. He says—wait, wait, wait. Dan: I—just one—

elliott

He says—what are these ships? They don’t have a fleet! And his second-in-command goes, it’s not a fleet! It’s just… people! And I was like, movie—Richard E. Grant is a person. The Emperor is a person when it comes down to it. All the stormtroopers are people. The bad guys are also people. So like—you have now set up a dichotomy where the Rebels are good because I guess they don’t have uniforms? Whereas the bad guys are inhuman—

crosstalk

Elliott: —and can just be— Dan: He means civilians, Elliott.

elliott

Then—then say they don’t—they—or then here’s what they should’ve said. They should’ve said—uh—they don’t have a fleet! And the second-in-command should’ve said, I suppose they do now. And then you don’t bring up this question in my mind of like, so I guess the bad guys can be killed with impunity ‘cause they’re not human beings?

dan

Okay.

elliott

They—they’re just—they’re just monsters?

dan

Well, you’re ruining the thing I was gonna say, which is, like, I know—

crosstalk

Dan: —that this— Elliott: How much you loved—

elliott

—that moment?

dan

Well, no, this is a— [Elliott laughs.] I know—I know this is a—I know this is a rip-off. I mean, it’s not a rip-off—

elliott

It’s a rip-off of Dunkirk, the real thing that happened.

dan

You’ve—you’ve seen it in plenty of movies. You’ve seen it in life, in Dunkirk. But like—but—

crosstalk

Elliott: I mean, I wasn’t there. [Laughs.] Stuart: [Through laughter] I didn’t see it! [Dan laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: I didn’t—I wasn’t on the beaches there, Dan. [Laughs.] Dan: No, no. You’re Highlander, right? Stuart: There was that time where my friends Bill and Ted took me back to look at some ship for class. [Laughs.]

dan

What I’m going to say is, like… this—this movie comes, like, so—like, this movie comes so soon on, um, the heels of—Avengers: Endgame? Where like the same thing happens.

elliott

Oh! And it was—and it was—I was—I was—it was so much more powerful for me in Avengers: Endgame.

dan

Yes.

elliott

And I think partly because… other than Lando, and—

crosstalk

Elliott: [Inaudible.] Stuart: You get to see Ant—uh, giant man punch a flying space worm?

elliott

I mean, that’s always my favorite thing in any of the Avengers movies, is seeing him as giant man. When—when in Civil War, when he grows giant man and ripped the wing off a plane? I was like, this is why I went to see this movie. [Stuart laughs.] I didn’t know it was happening? But I have always wanted to see this.

crosstalk

Elliott: Except— Dan: Except Elliott, he has—

dan

—the strength of a man when he’s small; why does he have the strength of a super-man when he’s big?

crosstalk

Dan: It doesn’t make any sense! Elliott: ‘Cause his muscles are huge!

elliott

Also, Dan—if that’s—

crosstalk

Dan: But his molecules are further apart! [Laughs.] [Stuart laughs.] Elliott: — the thing—no.

elliott

Dan. This—these movies are also asking you to believe that the Norse mythology is the one true religion. [Dan laughs.] Because we’ve seen those gods and we know that that is the underworld that exists. So if you’re willing to buy that, then maybe you can buy that this guy gets [though laughter] super strong when he’s giant. [Laughs.]

stuart

And it also makes—it’s also posits the idea that Benedict Cumberbatch’s character is actually speaking with a normal New York accent? [Elliott laughs.] Which—that’s a “cwazy” accent, guys!

elliott

It is “cwazy.”

dan

I did—I did wanna say, though. Like, even though it was scooped by Avengers, and even though this is like, a cheat moment designed to make me emotional, I did get a little emotional when everyone showed up.

elliott

 I think I would’ve gotten more emotional if there were more characters that I was seeing that were not… new to this movie?

stuart

Mm-hm.

elliott

I don’t really care of Keri Russell shows up at the end. That is not a character that has not been built up for me. Lando we saw already, earlier in the movie, so it’s not a big surprise. We get to see Wedge—

dan

Wedge is coming, baby!

elliott

Great. Wedge. Fantastic. And—but like—there was a—when—a—I was trying to think why is it so affecting to me in Endgame—and even in Endgame there was a part where—at a certain point it was just like, don’t forget me, boss! And what about me, boss? [Dan laughs.] And over here, boss! But I think it was because… one movie ago, we had seen a lot of those characters die. But also, that—those movies… like, were spaced out just in a different way and I felt like—it was weird because it’s like—oh, I—I feel with the Ave—with the Marvel movies it was like, we’re seeing all these characters that have been built up over years all in one scene for the first time. But with Star Wars I was like, I should be feeling that too. These are characters I’ve seen for—my entire life! Except that… for some of—I think they ruined some of the impact by having, like, having Lando show up. Having Han show up. Having Leia play such a big part up ‘til then. Having Luke already have shown up. It was like—the idea of all these characters coming back was not as exciting. We’ve already seen them come back in that movie. Y’know. So I don’t know. I could be wrong. But for some reason it just didn’t have the same punch.

dan

Maybe. I just don’t know how you square that circle because you want to see those characters come back earlier in the story than, like, at the very last moment.

elliott

I think you—I think you… I mean, part of it is just… dig deeper and get some more characters. Why isn’t—Moma Nadon there? Where’s Dengar? Come on! I will—bring—bring ‘em all back! Where’s Salacious Crumb piloting something? [Dan and Stuart laugh.] Just—laughing his fool head off! Come on! Anyway, while they’re—now that there’s a lot of ships, it’s the law of—

stuart

I was just mad there wasn’t a scene where BB-8 got to beat the shit out of BB-9E? [All laugh.]

elliott

I mean—I was mad that R2 barely came back. Like, if there’s ever a character I wanted to see play a big part, it’s R2! Instead, BB-8 has one moment. R2, like, has a moment where he gets zapped and Poe’s using him in his ship and I was like, Poe. Since when are you and R2, like, best buds?

crosstalk

Elliott: Like—c’mon. You’re BB-8’s dude! Stuart: I mean—the—

stuart

One of the—I’d—I’d already mentioned this, that they pushed, uh, the release of an episode of The Mandalorian up so that they could show off a Force power, so fans wouldn’t see it for the first time in the movie and get mad. Uh… but… I was kinda bummed that, like… man. Carl Weathers shoulda shown up, or Gina Carano, or… Babe—well, Baby Yoda, of course. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] If Baby Yoda showed up flying a plane at the end that would’ve been amazing!

elliott

I mean, they’s—I think—yeah.

stuart

I woulda thrown somebody else’s popcorn in the air. I wasn’t eating popcorn—

crosstalk

Stuart: —at that point. Can’t take the calories at four in the morning. [Laughs.] Elliott: And I mean, and like you’re saying—Kyle Katarn should’ve been there— [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]

elliott

Dash Rendar should’ve been there.

stuart

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

elliott

All the—

stuart

And if they were—if they were rendered exactly as they were in the original— [Elliott laughs.] —Uh, video game! [Laughs.]

elliott

Yeah. Mara Jade is there just as text, y’know? But uh—they—I think the… I dunno. For some reason it just didn’t—and—it—because of the law—

stuart

General Grievous was there. [All laugh.]

elliott

I mean, he’s dead, but sure! They’re all coming back. Yeah, why not! Uh… they—I think the law of movie plot means that when it’s time for the good guys to win, all the bad guy’s super-machines are suddenly incredibly vulnerable. So a couple shots just takes out their big plan to destroying spaceship dicks. Meanwhile— [Dan laughs.] —Rey is effectively killed by the Emperor, right? And who shows up? Kylo Ren. He’s a good guy now. He fights all of his Knights of Ren, which—we don’t get to see that much of.

stuart

Yeah. They’re—they’re boring.

elliott

And—he—he shows up and—oh, no. That’s when it’s like, ohh! Your friendship is so powerful! You are this fabled Jedi friendship that only appears— [Dan laughs.] —once every thousand years! And it’s like—it’s called love, Palpatine. It happens all the time! Like, I dunno. Maybe it’s weird to you. And he sucks their friendship out. That’s when he gets super powerful, and… what happens? Like—Kylo Ren, like, uh, Rey does the thing where she has two lightsabers and she reflects the lightning bolts back at him and he dissolves and his skin’s—

crosstalk

Elliott: —staring up— Dan: Well, no. But—but before that happens—

dan

—she calls basically—she calls on the power of all the Jedis that came before her.

elliott

Oh, right.

stuart

Uh-huh.

crosstalk

Dan: So she is— Elliott: Oh, then they’re all like—

elliott

I’m with you! Here with you, I am, too! Like, that kind of stuff. Yeah.

stuart

It’s me! Ki-Adi-Mundi! [Elliott laughs.] [All laugh.]

elliott

I mean, and you hear Mace Windu for a moment, right?

stuart

Yeah, I think so.

elliott

Yeah. And you probably hear, like, uh—

stuart

And he’s like— [Laughs.] The fucking king of reflecting shit on Sidious, right? [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs. Dan joins in.] Sidious hears that voice and he’s like, fuuuck I’m gonna need a new faaace! [Elliott laughs.]

dan

Kit Fisto’s there. Everyone’s there.

elliott

Yeah. And I have to assume Kyle Katarn, because he became a Jedi in this—in this—in the second game! Uh, and so they’re all there. And—that’s right. I forgot—

stuart

Al Kanane? Wait, no, sorry. Go on.

elliott

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. [Stuart laughs.] She—she calls on all the—

stuart

What— [Laughs.] Whatever the character I named, uh, in Knights of the Old Republic. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

And—and—Ulic Qel-Droma is there? Yeah, sure. And uh—and uh—Rey uses that to deflect it with the lightsabers, and she did a great job of… getting across something that no actor is—is trained to do, which is—they’re like, okay, now you have to pretend you’re pushing against something really hard and it’s made out of force bolts or whatever.

dan

No actor? Mimes, Elliott. [Laughs.]

elliott

Oh, I for—yeah.

dan

[Through laughter] They’ve been training their whole life for that. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Now I wish she had been taking mime training earlier in the movie and it came into effect here. Uh, and—the lightning dissolves, uh, Palpatine and all—and the planet starts—it releases a huge thing of energy which kills all of his followers and it’s like—uh… like, again. That was like 1,000 people and I guess maybe they’re—we’ll—we’ll chalk that up to Palpatine’s casualties? I dunno.

crosstalk

Elliott: I kinda feel like that was Rey’s fault. Stuart: Yeah. I mean—as— Dan: Yeah.

stuart

As they’re dying, they’re all like, it was worth the waaaait! [All laugh.]

elliott

This is the show? [All laugh.] And uh—and—Rey is like—ugh, I’m dead now! And Kyle—Kylo Ren is like, mm, I learned a thing or about Force healing! And he—brings her back to life and they kiss and then Kylo dies.

stuart

[Through laughter] Then he—he dies.

elliott

And you know he’s dead for real ‘cause he disappears and his clothes fall to the ground. Uh, ‘cause that’s how a real Jedi dies, Dan.

stuart

Uh-huh. I learned that watching The Dark Crystal. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

And, uh—

stuart

Now—

elliott

They blow up the bad guy’s spaceships and—

stuart

Now that the Emperor’s dead, uh, I’m not a huge fan of the Emperor showing back up in this movie. I think it’s really dumb that he shows up. Uh, they wait to reveal him until the very last movie and he’s, I dunno. It’s just stupid. But the—I don’t know if I would’ve preferred… I don’t know if I think it’s cool that, like—he’s a physical body? I wish if he was a physical body they played up more the idea that he was a clone and specifically that, like… because he’s a Sith he can’t live on? After death? Like, he’s obsessed with—like—unlike a Jedi, he can’t—

elliott

He can’t come back as a ghost so he’s gotta keep transferring his consciousness to bodies.

stuart

Or if… or if—I think he shoulda just been a weird spirit that they couldn’t fight but is more this, like, feeling of darkness. But I don’t know.

elliott

I think those are both super great, valid ways to do it? I’ve—I’ve been on the record. I think—before I was saying—I don’t—I’ve never liked the Emperor as a character? I feel like he tips it too far from… iconic legendary status into… child’s fairy tale status? Where—and I just don’t buy that this huge, intergalactic empire is run by a creepy old wizard man who uses a—like, a twisted black cane?

stuart

Yeah. What about that part at the end of, uh, The Phantom Menace where he’s like… oh, Mister Skywalker! I’ll be watching you with extreme interest! [Elliott laughs.] Or whatever the fuck he says. [All laugh.] And you’re like, Sheev, you fucking dirty dog! I know what you’re up to! [Laughs.]

elliott

The uh—I think—the—but I think it’s—it feels like such a… yeah, it’s just a disappointment when you see him show up in the beginning? ‘Cause it’s like—

crosstalk

Stuart: Dan, are you texting all your friends about Emperor Palpatine right now? Dan: Yep. I am totally. That—way to blow up my spot. Elliott: It’s like—it’s like—

elliott

It feels like they should’ve—what—that you’re tech—you’re—you’re really paying close attention to texting during the—during the recording? That it’s, uh—that it—they should—they should—the opening crawl shoulda been like: Episode IX. It is a time of lack of imagination in the universe. Uh, the Emperor’s back. We couldn’t think—

crosstalk

Elliott: —of a better bad guy. Stuart: Doesn’t it open with, like—

stuart

Uh, Episode IX: The Dead Speak?

elliott

Something like that, yeah.

stuart

Yeah.

elliott

Well, I mean, and—well—

stuart

‘Cause they’re referring to the fact that, of course, if you’d been playing the videogame Fortnite you would’ve heard messages from Emperor Palpatine. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

Well that’s the thing! Like, if they had started the movie with these mysterious messages that say they’re from Palpatine, and it’s a mystery whether he’s actually back or not, I think that would’ve been really cool. There’s something really disappointing about him just showing up in the first scene and being like, hey, ‘sup, Kylo? It’s me, Palp. I’m back, my buddy!

crosstalk

Elliott: Come on! Stuart: Well, that was a thing—

stuart

—like, that opening scene I was like, uh-oh. [Laughs.]

dan

I—

elliott

Like, the movie gets off on the wrong foot. And it’s… partly because it’s like… uh… there’s no—like, I don’t want a lot of mystery from a Star Wars movie? But I want, like, storytelling? Y’know? I dunno.

dan

I do feel like the trilogy—

elliott

That’s a rough thing for me to say. I shouldn’t say that.

dan

The trilogy writes itself into kind of a weird place? And I don’t know what to do about it? Because like… look. Like, for me, Kylo Ren is actually one of the—the best things about the new trilogy.

elliott

Yeah! I like him a lot.

dan

Like—Adam Driver’s great in the role and it’s an interesting conception of the role. Like, we’ve seen, like, the conflicted bad guy before—but only like kind of at the end of the dark—Darth Vader? Or—Dark Vader. The Darth Vader arc?

elliott

Dark—Dark Vapor is the—is the bootleg toy that you find? [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: Like in a—like, on a street fair next to a socks, uh—socks booth? Dan: No, but like—It’s interesting to see, like—

dan

The whole arc of these movies, like, he is like, this… emo guy who’s trying really hard to be bad, even though something’s pulling him good. And that’s interesting. But you do write yourself into a corner and I wonder how this last movie would go if someone else did it. Where, like, you need someone to be the actual bad guy of the movie, but you don’t necessarily want that to be Kylo Ren because he’s such a complex… like… character at that point.

stuart

Yeah. I mean—I—I—I don’t think—I feel like you could’ve done this movie—obviously, this is stupid that I’m doing this like backseat. I’m trying to rewrite a fucking Star Wars movie right now.

crosstalk

Dan: But like— Elliott: And also—

elliott

These movies are incredibly hard to make. There’s a lot of expectations on ‘em, and there’s a schedule to hit. Like, it’s hard. Y’know, it’s not easy.

stuart

And clear—that’s part of the—part of the thing that felt—I felt strongest about, was how rushed the whole thing felt. More than any of the other Star Wars.

elliott

Which is strange, ‘cause Force Awakens I know they really had to rush. Like, the—the release date was announced and they—I dunno, what? A year and half to make that movie from start of scripting to… finish of production and then release? And that comes together—but that—I guess that’s being carried along by the excitement of new things. And old things. And this—it’s hard to have a culmination that—that really is, like… that pulls it—but anyway. You were saying—I interrupted you.

stuart

No, like, I mean—I feel like you… if—if you—the focus of the movie was on Rey and Kylo’s relationship, and… Kylo is now in charge of this whole fucking big army and then you had the idea of, like, a mysterious message from Palpatine—is it from Palpatine or not? And that pushes both of them, like—it—Kylo’s obviously angry that somebody else is, like, claiming to be the supreme Dark Side dude, so he starts acting out. And it forces a confrontation between the two of them, and then over the course of that he realizes that, y’know, whatever. He’s not—he—y’know. Whatever. He’s a good—he’s a good dude. [Laughs.] And that Hux is the real [though laughter] bad guy.

elliott

Here’s the way I would’ve done it. Okay.

dan

Okay.

elliott

Just a—one—one of many ways. This is backseat—I was—I’m gonna be—uh—this is a little segment I’m gonna call “Backseat Adam Driver.” Where I tell you how I would’ve done it. Is—start off—there’s these—it’s—Kylo Ren and Rey have this weird kind of, uh, relationship. They’re also the leaders of enemy forces. And like you’re saying, Kylo Ren is struggling with this Dark Side aspect of him. And because—or struggling with the Light Side aspect of him. He wants to be a bad guy. It’s—it’s—because to be a bad guy is to be… emotionally invulnerable. And to be a good guy is to open yourself up to feelings like love and insecurity and relying on other people and he can’t abide that. He can’t abide the weakness inside himself that all people have. So he wants to be Darth Vader, who he believes had no weakness ‘cause he doesn’t know that Darth Vader went “Noooooo!” when he found out that his wife had passed. [Stuart laughs.] And uh—and that Darth Vader was the—

stuart

[Deep voice] “How’s my girlfriend?”

elliott

That the Dark Vade—that the Darth Vader was the weakest thing of all—a deadbeat dad.

stuart

Oh, wow.

elliott

But anyway. That—uh—so he—but there’s these mysterious, uh, messages start appearing. I don’t know. Over the radio or something? Or to Force-sensitive people all over the galaxy, ‘cause we’ve established in the last movie—there are—people are Force-sensitive all over. Little boys can use the Force to put brooms in their hands. Y’know. And if a little boy can put a broom on his hands, then we can make a pencil out of leaves, Dan.

dan

Yeah. [Laughs.]

elliott

[Laughs.] And so—

dan

[Through laughter] Elliott is like—

crosstalk

Dan: —telling me—on the arm—you know, I love it! I mean, fucking— Stuart: Elliott knows how to pitch to his audience! Elliot: Dan, you—you like this, right? So here’s what happens next. Here’s what happens next.

elliott

Get a load of this. See if this grabs you. So—they—and they’re—so they’re battling and Kylo Ren is getting more and more distracted by trying to figure out who this Palpatine guy is. And Rey—and the—the heroes are like, well we—if Palpatine’s back, obviously he’s the real villain. We gotta go after him. And I would have it turn out at the end that Kylo Ren had—is a basically a split personality. And he’s been making this happen. The Dark Side of him is—if anything—disgusted with the Light Side of him and is trying to pull away. And… if—either goad him into being worse? Or create some sort of Force-Emperor entity like you’re talking about. And so the way that Kylo Ren can defeat this—and this makes it more of a Kylo Ren movie than a Rey movie? You’d have to come up with what Rey’s plot is? Is that—he is figuring out that he is… not a slave, basically, to the Dark Side of his passions and things like that. But I would so much more like—like, that would play into the duality of it? Somewhat? But—and then you—

stuart

And focus on these characters instead of just, like… dumb bullshit.

elliott

And instead of sending Rey and her pals on a treasure hunt to find, like, one item after another.

stuart

[Through laughter] Mm-hm.

elliott

But that—I think —‘cause that was part of what bugged me about the movie, was it didn’t feel like it was about the characters in the movie? Like, Star Wars you could say has a MacGuffin in it! It’s got the Death Star plans. But it’s very clearly—this is a movie about, like, Luke’s journey and then it becomes about Han’s journey too, and it becomes a little bit about Leia’s journey. And they both—they all have trauma to deal with. Leia loses her entire planet. Luke loses a friend that he had made a couple days ago. And— [Laughs.]

dan

Luke loses his—his surrogate parents, Elliott!

crosstalk

Elliott: That—he’s—and also [Laughs.] We have—but he doesn’t like them! That’s—and his aunt and uncle. Dan: Yeah, that’s true. Stuart: Yeah.

dan

Well, no, he doesn’t like—

stuart

But that doesn’t mean he—

crosstalk

Elliott: [Inaudible] Stuart: —wants to see, like—he doesn’t wanna see, like, roasted skeletons! Dan: [inaudible] Hometown! I didn’t like my hometown. [Through laughter] I don’t wanna see my parents roasted by Sand People! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] Okay, that’s a—uh, Stormtroopers, Dan.

dan

That’s true. Who pretend to be Sand People.

elliott

They pretend to be Sand People.

dan

I’m sorry.

elliott

And they prefer to be called Tusken Raiders. Sand People is a—is a negative term. But let—the—it—this movie it kind of felt like—

stuart

But Stormtroopers never actually [though laughter] shoot people. Right?

elliott

[Laughs.] It’s the one time storm—well—Stormtroopers can shoot civilians. That’s what they’re good at.

dan

They can—they can set a non-flammable hut on fire. [All laugh.]

elliott

And so—so it’s like—they were trying to make this—this story—

stuart

Civilians’ armor class is much [though laughter] lower so it’s easier to hit them.

elliott

They were trying to make this story about Rey kind of finding herself? Who is she and who does she belong to and—and rejecting this—this legacy of evil? But it never quite felt like it was built around the character that we’ve come to know? I dunno. It felt like—at points where the char—it should’ve been about character—

crosstalk

Dan: Well, let’s— Stuart: I just love the—I just love the continuing message— Elliott: —not jumping to a new planet.

stuart

—that you can only have, uh, Force powers if your parents [though laughter] had Force powers. [Elliott laughs.]

dan

Yeah. Let’s wrap—let’s wrap this all up, though. Like—just like the very end of the actual movie. The—the synopsis.

elliott

Oh. At the end of the movie, everyone’s celebrating. We did it! Yay! Uh, and Chew—this was the biggest piece of stupid fan service. Is that someone hands Chewbacca a medal, like, here ya go. You got one finally. And I was like—wow. They’re really closing the loop on this thing that happened at the end [though laughter] of the first movie! [All laugh.] But I said—I had to pause the movie—‘cause again I was watching a digital screener—and call my wife over and go, this was the dumbest moment. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] They’re like, finally we rectified the historic crime of Chewbacca not getting a medal! [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then—and then— Dan: And then Danielle’s like—

dan

Could I go to sleep now? [Elliott laughs.]

stuart

No. Stay awake. Now—the next thing you’re gonna see is somebody slap the cuffs on Ozymandias. [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

The only—the only thing that woulda made that scene more ridiculous to me is if they gave him the Cowardly Lion’s medal from [though laughter] The Wizard of Oz. [Dan laughs.] That just said “COURAGE” in big letters on it. So—then, uh—and Rey goes to—

stuart

Yeah. [Through laughter] They—they translate Chewbacca’s yowl? [Elliott laughs.] It says—“This looks fake.” [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

He takes a bite and there’s chocolate inside. [Stuart laughs.] Uh, so—Rey goes to Tatooine to Luke’s old home. I’m sure it’s the real set, which is really there still in Tunisia being devoured by the desert slowly over time. And because Jedi have no bodies to bury and their ghosts just hang around to talk to anyways, so why bother? [Dan laughs.] She—she buries, uh, Luke and Leia’s lightsabers. Or is it Kylo Ren and—I don’t remember whose lightsabers they are.

dan

No, it’s—it’s—yeah. It’s Luke and Larry’s. Leia’s.

elliott

And uh—and—then—

dan

Lairs.

elliott

And uh, Luke and Leia’s ghosts are like, thanks, pal. And then someone’s like—then an old lady who’s just wandering by with her amazing beast of burden—

stuart

She’s awesome, yeah.

elliott

She’s like—oh, who are you? We don’t get many strangers ‘round these parts!

dan

Last names only, please! [All laugh.]

elliott

What’s your name? And she goes—Rey… Skywalker. And I wanted—I—and like, I get that she’s taking on that mantle, but I wanted Luke’s ghost to be like—whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. [Stuart laughs.] Hold on a second.

crosstalk

Elliott: You are not a Skywalker. Dan: Now—okay. Stuart: Or—or the old woman to be—

stuart

—horrified? [Laughs.]

dan

Hold on.

elliott

You’re like, wait a minute! Like Anakin Skywalker?! Darth Vader? Guards! Kill her!

crosstalk

Elliott: Kill her! Kill her! Stuart: Luke—Luke Skywalker who mar—who killed his aunt and uncle?! [Dan laughs.]

elliott

You know Luke Skywalker, who kissed his sister [though laughter] on the lips once? [All laugh.]

dan

I want us—

elliott

So you think the people in Tatooine think Luke killed his aunt and uncle and then skipped town? [All laugh.]

stuart

Mm-hm.

elliott

That’s a totally valid reading of what happened! [Laughs.]

dan

I—I want to see— [Stuart laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] I love the idea there’s a wanted posters for Luke all over Mos Eisley spaceport! [Dan laughs.] “He committed the worst crime: aunt-and-uncle-cide!"

stuart

Well—when he was— [Dan laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] “Last seen in the company of an old man who chopped off the arm of one of our upstanding citizens.”

stuart

Yeah!

elliott

So this—this boy?

dan

Our most beloved—

stuart

Grow—growing up, he seemed like such a quiet boy. He kept shooting womprats, but that’s normal, right? [All laugh.]

elliott

All we know—yeah. He killed animals as a youth. He never wanted to do his chores. Was always hanging out with those losers at Toshi Station. Next thing we know, his house is on fire. His aunt and uncle—who only loved him—are dead. He’s run away wearing just a karate gi with a crazy old man who lived out in the desert. We heard they jumped ship with a pirate and a bear-dog. [All laugh.] After going to a—to a seedy space bar. Oh—that Luke Skywalker! He is bad news! [All laugh.] That is a totally valid reading for the local [though laughter] Tatooine gossips.

dan

[Through laughter] Okay. That all being said—

stuart

The Tatooine Tattler—we—we know. [Elliott laughs.]

dan

That all—

elliott

[Through laughter] It comes in the—it comes in the Mos Eisley PennySaver. [Laughs.] The Tattler. And it’s this blind item: which lugubrious Hutt was seen eyeing a certain six-breasted— [Dan loses it in the background.] Hmm! Our lips are sealed! [Laughs.] And it’s by Grindan. It’s the Tatooine Tattler by Grindan! [Laughs.]

dan

That all being said. [All laugh.] For me—like, I know—I know that the—

elliott

Which Mandalorian bounty hunter was seen yukking it up with those twin ladies that hang out at the bar?

dan

For me—

stuart

They’ll post the—they’ll post the picture when Han steps on Jabba’s tail and they’re like, Jabba the Nut? [All laugh.]

elliott

Sources tell me that Figran D’an and the Modal Nodes may be breaking up—or recording a new album? I guess time will tell!

dan

[Through laughter] I will say—for me, even though I know that that woman wandering by and asking Rey’s name is the most egregious, like, setup for an emotional moment—

stuart

Yup.

dan

I did find the very end of this movie moving. Like, the idea that Rey—who, like, so… so… found it important to, like, think about who her parents were. Was like… sort of disappointed to find out, maybe, that like—like—well, like—felt like—spent so much time thinking that her parents were bad people—

elliott

And when she was first—when we’re first introduced to her, she has nobody.

crosstalk

Dan: Yeah. She has no one in her life. Elliott: No one in the world. She is totally alone.

dan

Yes. And then, like, thinks her parents are bad people. Then finds that they were, like—killed because they were protecting her from a bad person. And then had these, like, real people in her life that were, uh, surrogate parent figures to her. I did find it moving that she took on their name.

elliott

And we can leave aside the fact that her surrogate father and surrogate mother are siblings.

dan

Sure. Why not.

elliott

And the weirdness—although, I guess—you know what?

stuart

And they got blasted, Harry Potter style.

elliott

That’s Anne of Green Gables. And I can’t find fault with that. Because Anne’s surrogate parents eventually are basically Marilla and, um… what’s uh… oh, why can’t I remember that—

crosstalk

Elliott: The man’s name? It’s a— Dan: I dunno. I—I read the books so long ago.

elliott

Oh, it’s—anyway. The brother and sister who—who take her in and then—uh, and—then they become kind of her—her family.

crosstalk

Elliott: You know what? So I’m—so scratch that. Stuart: So after burying those lightsabers—

stuart

So does she have a cool lightsaber anymore, Dan?

dan

She has another lightsaber that she apparently built herself.

stuart

Cool. What color is that lightsaber?

dan

It’s like white, I guess?

stuart

Whaaat?!

elliott

And it’s—and it’s got kind of a dial on it?

stuart

A cool new lightsaber?

elliott

It’s like a hipster retro rotary lightsaber. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] So I think—uh—yeah. Dan, I think you were moved more by this movie than I was. I think I found it more… to be honest, like… boring? And it’s the first time—counting the pre—even including the prequels and including Solo, where I was watching a Star Wars movie and I was like—eh, like, I’m kinda done with this movie.

crosstalk

Dan: Yeah. Well let’s— Elliott: Like, by the third—

elliott

—time Kylo Ren and Rey were about to lightsaber, I was like—are we gonna watch them lightsaber fight again? And I felt bad ‘cause I was like—there’s real fight choreography going into this. The actors look like they really worked hard at it. Everybody’s doing their best! But I’m just kinda like—

crosstalk

Elliott: —over it. Stuart: Yeah. The inner grandma in you—

stuart

—kicked in and you’re like— [Elliott laughs.] —oh, so many people worked hard!

elliott

I mean, I’m just so glad that so many people made a paycheck—

crosstalk

Elliott: —off this project. Dan: Guys, look. Look.

dan

This is a… this is a Flop House After Dark. As we’ve decided.

elliott

I’ve certainly been swearing up a storm.

crosstalk

Dan: We’re not— Stuart: Not—

stuart

I haven’t been wearing pants at all. [Elliott laughs.]

dan

Yeah.

elliott

Uh, so how is it different than a usual one? [Stuart laughs.]

dan

That’s very arousing.

stuart

[Through laughter] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoaaa! [Elliott laughs.]

dan

We—um—I think I’ve decided we’ve gone, uh… as long as a normal episode just talking about the movie.

crosstalk

Stuart: Yeah. Dan: Like, we’re not gonna bother with— Elliott: It’s almost like the thing that we should do normally. [Laughs.]

dan

We’re not gonna bother with any of the extraneous stuff. We’re just gonna kind of end it here. But like—I do think we should do a final judgments whether it’s a good-bad movie, a bad-bad movie, a movie you kinda like—Elliott, you’re kind of in it already.

elliott

Yeah.

dan

You’re soaking in it. [Laughs.]

elliott

Ugh! Gross!

dan

What do you have to say about it?

elliott

Uh, I mean—I don’t—it’s kinda not one of those things for me. It—which is that—I didn’t like it but I didn’t hate it. It was the first time I saw a Star Wars movie and I was indifferent to it? And maybe that’s because… Star Wars is not as important to me as it once was? Because I have—other responsibilities in my life and also I’ve since—like—when I—I think I’ve talked about, on the Star Wars Minute, how like when I was younger, the Star Wars universe was a universe that I could… know about, become an authority on, really feel ownership owner. When the real world felt mysterious and alienating and isolating to me. And over time that has been replaced by the real world becoming more warm and welcoming to me, but also like—my love of actual history? And it’s kind of—when I’m so mad about James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson, it’s hard for me to get as mad about, like, Emperor Palpatine? But it’s the first time I ever watched a Star Wars movie and I was like, eh. Like, I’m—I’m kinda not feeling anything. Y’know. It’s like what happens when you run into an ex-boyfriend or -girlfriend or other, uh, relationship person. And you’re like—

dan

Relationship person.

elliott

And it’s like, you—I’m trying to cover all bases.

dan

Yeah, sure.

elliott

And uh, you run into them at a party or on the street or something, and you’re like—hey! How’s it going? And you’re talking to them, and you’re like—I feel no emotions for this person. I had this experience where I ran into an ex-girlfriend, and I was like, this is someone that I felt like I was in love with. She broke up with me and it devastated me? And now I’m meeting her and I’m like—oh! This is just a person. I have no entanglements with this person whatsoever. And when I leave this moment I will have—it might as well have not have happened.

stuart

Yeah. You didn’t immediately queue up, like, “Hugging, Touching, Squeezing” by, uh, Journey? [Laughs.] On your iPod?

elliott

I did not do that. And so that’s what this Star Wars felt like to me. It was like, oh, maybe I don’t have the relationship with—with this franchise that I felt like I did. Until Episode X: Salacious Crumb and Dengar’s Wild Adventure. [Laughs.]

dan

Yeah. Who’s Salacious Crumb? [Elliott laughs.] And it’s him with, uh, the big, like, suction cups outside of a building? Let—uh—let’s—

stuart

I mean, that—two things-style poster t-shirt has got to be made—

crosstalk

Stuart: —somewhere, right? Dan: I know, man.

dan

Yeah. Let’s—okay. Uh—I’ll let Stuart close us out with negativity? ‘Cause I know that, uh, that’s where it’s gonna go. But no, let me— [Elliott laughs.] —go first. I’m saying I’ll let—

stuart

[Outburst noise] Bleheeheh!

dan

I’ll let you close out with negativity. I’m gonna say, uh, that… it’s weird for me to, like, try and, like, play the maturity card? Because Elliott has, uh, two children that he’s raising and Stuart has a successful, uh, small business. Um… but I am the oldest so I will say that—

elliott

Sure.

dan

I feel like I do have this—I have reached a point in my life where I’m just like, okay, Star Wars is a thing. It was my young love. I will always—in some part of my heart—love it. And I’m excited for a new Star War! But uh, watching this, like… y’know, I know that watching this is not going to ruin, uh… what Star Wars means to me. So I can enjoy it—

crosstalk

Dan: —just as like— Elliott: You’re still gonna do your one-man show—

elliott

“What Star Wars means to me?” On Broadway now?

dan

I can just enjoy it as a thing that washes over me. That, like—

stuart

Ooh, a one-man show on Broadway! [Elliott laughs.]

dan

They’re—let me finish my thing. Like, there are things that I like about it. Things I didn’t like about it. Like, this is definitely the weakest non-prequel movie for me? And, um… but I kind of just, like… y’know, I had fun. Like, I—my—my—look. My, uh… my expectations were reduced. I have brought up Audrey a lot in this podcast, but I think it’s interesting because she only watched Star Wars this year? To like, talk about her reaction. Last Jedi was… her favorite. Of all of them. And I think that’s because it brought, like, sort of shades of grey into the Star Wars universe. Uh—

stuart

How many? [Elliott laughs.]

dan

No, but like—

elliott

More than 49 or less than 51? [Laughs.]

dan

It suggested—it suggested that, like, there’s maybe more to this—oh God. It suggested that there’s—

elliott

No, no, yeah. Shades of grey wherever you go. The more you find out—

elliott

Elliott: —the less you know! [Laughs.] Dan: [Yelling] Oh, for fuck’s sake!

dan

It suggested that there’s maybe more to this universe than this one bloodline.

elliott

Yeah.

dan

And… like, I—understand that viewpoint and I understand that, like, as someone seeing it for the first time this year, that complexity might mean more to you. And I also understand that, like, I’m a white male 41-year-old and, like… she is a—a Filipino female, uh, 32-year-old and thus, like, maybe The Last Jedi, like… carries more meaning for her in the sense that, like, if she’s seeing it all this year, like, to see so much of it undone by this movie is like—more of a slap in the face, necessarily, than to me. Who is just like, y’know what? I’ve seen Star Wars come and I’ve seen Star Wars go. [Elliott laughs.] And this is one of them. And that’s—

elliott

You’re the old man at the train station.

crosstalk

Elliott: [Imitating elderly voice] “Well, there’ll always be another Star War coming down the track.” Dan: That’s fine.

dan

Yeah! It’s like, this is the worst of the new trilogy, but… I do look at it and I’m like, okay, well—this might be the worst. I think it’s fucking enraging that Rose is sidelined the way it is. It’s—it’s annoying that, like… Rey is, like, uh, suddenly of a, like, significant bloodline rather than, like, the mess—

stuart

Just a piece of space trash.

dan

Well, no, no! [Elliott laughs.] The message that just anyone can be a hero in this universe! Like it was—

elliott

Which was very much the message of the last movie.

dan

Yes! Like, that is a much better message than, like, you have to be, like, a special human being or whatever race they are in—in space. Like, to like, make a difference. Like, that is a terrible message! But I do also, like, look back on this new trilogy and be like, oh, y’know, like, they’ve given us great characters in Rey and Finn and Rose and BB-8 and Poe. Like, these are—

stuart

Babu Frik.

dan

Uh… [Elliott laughs.] Kylo Ren. Like, no! But they’re, like—

stuart

Kylo Ren’s pretty cool. I like him.

dan

They’re all these, like, great characters in the new trilogy, so I dunno. I was happy to see them one last time. Definitely the worst of the [though laughter] three movies. Marginally kinda liked.

stuart

Yeah. Sor—I mean, sorry for stepping on that, Dan. I mean, y’know, it’s, uh, it’s tough when we start talking about Star Wars and telling jokes. I get all worked up. [Elliott laughs.] But uh—y’know?

elliott

He gets his Force up. It’s—it rises him up.

stuart

Yeah. It’s—I—I mean, I already mentioned this kind of earlier, but like, Star Wars is one of those things that I can’t really control how I feel about it. It’s been, like, y’know, a big part—uh—of my—my fantasy world, uh, since I was a little kid. Um, and… so it meant that, like, even going to the prequels, like, even knowing that they’re not good, I still liked [though laughter] them. Uh—and… every single Star Wars movie I saw in the theater, I remember leaving and liking. And this was the first time I was bummed, man! Like—so much of it felt like it was an attempt to erase what had happened in the—in The Last Jedi, a movie that I—I liked quite a bit and was, uh, a—it shocked me by actually putting in surprising stuff! Um, and it—it felt so much like a response to, like, try to appease—appeal to critics? And like I remember when they first announced that they were going to be doing, uh, that Disney had gotten the rights and that a filmmaker other than George Lucas was going to get to make Star Wars movies. And… that was really exciting! And that—like—and that excitement kinda paid off? With at least the first half of Force Awakens? Where it felt like—at least JJ Abrams understood kinda what, like… what was exciting about Star Wars? And then… seeing The Last Jedi, uh, it was really great to see— [Laughs.] Uh—a skilled filmmaker? [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] Make a movie?

elliott

Oh, wow.

crosstalk

Dan: Whoa! Elliott: Ooh. That is a—

elliott

—harsh thing to say!

stuart

Yeah. I’m sorry. Uh, you wanna write—write down all the great movies [though laughter] JJ Abrams has made?

crosstalk

Elliott: Wow! Wow! Dan: I really like—

dan

Uh, his Mission: Impossible movie. Mission: Impossible 3 I like. I like his Star Trek reboot, the first one. Not so much the second one. I like the first couple seasons of Alias, like—

crosstalk

Elliott: Well, that’s not a movie. Dan: JJ Abrams— Stuart: Great—great movies. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]

dan

I’m saying—he’s a talented pop filmmaker who gets a lot of shit from nerds on the internet, but he also does stuff like Rise of Skywalker sometimes.

stuart

So what I’m saying is that I’m not—I’m not even saying he’s necessarily bad, but I’m not—like, he’s not an exciting—I don’t think he’s an exciting—I—I’m just saying—

elliott

Stuart: —I don’t find him to be— Dan: He’s not an auteur—

crosstalk

Dan: —the way that Rian Johnson is. Elliott: Well, but even the way— Stuart: Is an exciting artist—

stuart

—who will bring something kinda new to the table. That’s all I’m just trying to say. But.

elliott

The thing that—the thing that just threw me into—threw into relief for me with the prequels is—the prequels are goofy and they don’t really work for me. But the prequels are constantly—even for all the things that rhyme with the—with the old movies, they’re constantly throwing new things at you that you haven’t seen. And the story works in a different way than the first three movies. And it’s exciting to me—that—that was the disappointing thing to me about this one, was it was like… it’s just not—it’s just not new stuff. That’s all I was saying. And the last one was new stuff.

stuart

And two final things. I wanna say that—I feel like for me, the—the final shot—as—uh, like—I don’t—I don’t—like, necessarily dislike the final shot of The Rise of Skywalker? Uh, but I just kinda been worn down at that point and I was pretty bummed. But I feel like the final shot of, uh… The Last Jedi—to me— [though laughter] is the final shot of this, like… trilogy. Like—of a young kid… swinging a little, uh, swinging a broom around like a lightsaber. [Elliott laughs.] That’s—that’s what’s all about, folks. And you know what? I kinda predicted this. When they first showed the trailer for Cats, and they had talked about how… and—and—I realized that Cats was gonna be coming out right around the same time as the new Star Wars movie, and in my heart I’m like—why am I more excited to see Cats than I am to see Star Wars? And then—spoiler alert—to have that excitement pay off and be proved true— [Elliott laughs.] ‘Cause I just saw Cats. Oh, man. It’s crazy. What a crazy world we live in. But we’ll talk more about Cats, uh, next time we—we meet.

elliott

Uh, well, I mean—I think—I think we can—we can tease that next time will be our first—annual, perhaps?—uh, Cats-tacular. [All laugh.]

stuart

[Through laughter] Wow. Well, uh, you didn’t mention the annual part, but— [Elliott laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: [Through laughter] Well, I—I mean I’m just—I just— Stuart: I—I feel kinda okay with it.

elliott

I’m just floating the idea out there. We’re gonna have some special guests. We’re gonna have some real, uh, Hollywood insider talk about the premier of Cats—

dan

I can almost guarantee this will be the most Jellicle episode— [Elliott laughs.] —we’ve ever done!

crosstalk

Elliott: So—so our first—so— Stuart: [Laughs.] Yeah! Dan: So Jellicle.

stuart

Oh man. Uh, it’ll—it’ll break my Jellicle app. [Laughs.] On my phone.

elliott

So I think, stay tuned for our first annual? Cats-tacular. On The Flop House. But uh—yeah. I think—it is weird—but I think that’s—I think that comes with… the newness I’m talking about. Like, Cats is something new—I assume you didn’t see Cats in the theaters. I mean, Cats on—on Broadway.

stuart

No, I did, when I was a kid.

elliott

Oh, you did! Oh.

stuart

Yeah.

elliott

So maybe it wasn’t as new. As it—‘cause, I’ll like—

crosstalk

Elliott: The—I never saw Cats the show. Dan: Oh, man.

elliott

So I’m excited to see the mov—

crosstalk

Elliott: I haven’t seen the movie yet, so. Stuart: Oh. [Through laughter] Oh, Elliott. Oh— Dan: I went in a blank slate.

stuart

Oh, summer child. [All laugh.]

elliott

I’m so excited, ‘cause I’ll see it in the next couple days, I guess. I’m so excited to see it having no expectations other than it—that it is gonna be crazy. [Stuart laughs.]

stuart

Your only expectation is the way that Dan and Stuart are staring at you right now. [All laugh.] [Through laughter] And—and—whispering—whispering traits of Jellicle cats!

crosstalk

Elliott: I—I haven’t— Dan: This twitter—

dan

—descent into madness— [Elliott laughs.] —I’ve done over the last day—

crosstalk

Dan: —of seeing Cats. [Laughs.] Elliott: Yeah. Of just—of just cats’ names.

elliott

I feel like I’ve not felt this from people since the time I almost took a Scientology stress test in a Subway station. And they were just like, mmm, come over here and we’ll use some words you’ve never heard before and we’re very passionate about them. [All laugh.]

stuart

Yeah. And that just left you in a, uh, in a prison cell, breaking a toilet— [Elliott laughs.] [Through laughter] —next to Philip Seymour Hoffman.

crosstalk

Dan: Alright. But that’s— Elliott: I wish I was as strong as Crazy Man Joaquin in that movie. [Stuart laughs.]

dan

But that’s next time. Let’s, uh, let’s—let’s finally put a bow on this.

stuart

Okay.

dan

Tie it all up.

elliott

A big laser bow.

dan

Just like [though laughter] JJ Abrams did. Uh, this has been another episode of The Flop House. You know what?

stuart

A regular old episode— [Dan laughs.] —of The Flop House. [Laughs.]

crosstalk

Elliott: Just another run-of-the-mill episode. Dan: You know what? It’s—it’s a—

dan

—different episode than normal, so I’m just gonna say—like and subscribe, or whatever— [though laughter] whatever they say.

stuart

Lichens? Those are the enemies of the vampires in the— [Elliott and Dan laugh.] —what?

crosstalk

Stuart: Nocturnal movie? What’s that called? [Laughs.] Dan: Or they’re a type of fungus. Lichens. [Laughs.]

dan

Anyway.

elliott

So anyway. Uh, please, if you liked this episode— [All laugh.] —please review us on iTunes.

crosstalk

Elliott: Say some nice things. If you don’t like this episode, the door is right over there, sir. Dan: [Through laughter] If you like this episode, please— [Laughs.]

dan

[Through laughter] Please throw your phone into the ocean. [All laugh.]

elliott

And, uh—

dan

[Through laughter] Save yourself.

elliott

Uh, tell people about us. If you like us, share stuff about us. I dunno. Whatever. Uh—so check out other podcasts on the Maximum Fun network. There might be talking about Rise of Skywalker, too. I don’t know.

stuart

I feel like it’s on the tip of everybody’s tongue.

elliott

Mm-hm. Everybody’s long, uh, Bib Fortuna tongue.

dan

Uh, anyway, though. For The Flop House

elliott

How long is Bib Fortuna’s tongue?

dan

I’ve been Dan McCoy.

stuart

I’ve been Stuart Wellington.

elliott

[In twangy voice] Moseying on off into the sunset, bringing back that Western thing from the beginning of the episode—well, I’m Elliott Kalan. Hitting the trails and saying—I can’t wait to talk about Cats. [Laughs.]

stuart

[With twangy accent] Sure you wanna—sure you wanna hit the trails with that rumbling belly of yours? [Elliott laughs.] Maybe you wanna head over into Dan’s little restaurant! Over by the crackling creek! [Elliott laughs.]

elliott

[Through laughter] I heard Dan’s Crackling Creek Café— [All laugh.] —does have the best night catfish.

dan

Winter Solstice!

elliott

Night-caught, Winter Solstice catfish. You know, it takes a brave man to go out at night and pull those catfish from that freezing crackling creek. [All laugh.] And fry ‘em up for us hungry cowhands. [Stuart laughs.]

dan

See ya next time, everybody. Byeeee! [All laugh.]

music

Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.

dan

You look for a moment like a baby who had had a thing taken from him. [All laugh. Elliott makes baby crying noise.] That they didn’t, like, need, but they were just sad to see it go.

crosstalk

Elliott: Oh. The look on my son’s face all the time? Stuart: Yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah. [Laughs.]

stuart

Man, I know what I’m gonna talk about this whole episode. [Music ends.]

speaker 1

MaximumFun.org.

speaker 2

Comedy and culture.

speaker 3

Artist owned—

speaker 4

—Audience supported.

About the show

The Flop House is a bimonthly audio podcast devoted to the worst in recent film. Your hosts (Elliott Kalan, Dan McCoy, and Stuart Wellington) watch a questionable film just before each episode, and then engage in an unscripted, slightly inebriated discussion, focusing on the movie’s shortcomings and occasional delights.

Follow @flophousepod on Twitter and @theflophousepodcast on Instagram. Email them at theflophousepodcast@gmail.com.

People

Host & Producer

Associate Producer

How to listen

Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!

Share this show

New? Start here...