TRANSCRIPT Ep. 332: Primal

Transcript

dan mccoy
									
On this episode, Cagemas has come again! We discuss Primal!
elliott kalan
									
That’s right, Flop House fans! Our sixth Kevin Durand movie! It’s Durandica! [Stuart laughs.] It’s a miracle!
music
									
Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.
dan
									
Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flop House. I’m Dan McCoy.
stuart wellington
									
Hey, I’m Stuart Wellington!
elliott
									
I’m Elliott Kalan! And we’ve got a special guest today. Right, Stu?
stuart
									
We do! He’s a comedian. He’s a writer and author. He’s a TV writer and EP and all kinds of stuff. And he’s a podcaster! That’s right—Josh Gondelmannnnn!
josh gondelman
									
Hello! Thank you for having me! [Stuart laughs.]
elliott
									
Thanks so much for being here, Josh.
dan
									
Now Josh, you were known—widely—for being one of the nicest men in comedy. How do you feel about us compelling you to perhaps say some not-nice things about this movie we watched? [Josh laughs.]
josh
									
I’m—well, thank you. That’s very kind of you to say that. And I’m excited to talk about this. I love Nicolas Cage. I love Cagemas on your show. I’m a Cagemas devotee. And so I can’t wait to talk about this, good and bad. Just all discourse—valuable discourse. [All laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. I believe when I was emailing with Josh I was like, “Yeah, you can kinda pick any movie you wanna talk about, or I guess you could be on the Cagemas episode” and I got an immediate response that just said, “Cagemassss!” [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
I was so excited! As a Jewish person I often felt growing up on the outside of my friends’ Cagemas celebrations. [Dan laughs.] So as an adult it’s nice to be able to make it my own. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
It’s hard ‘cause it’s just—and y’know, with kids now it’s hard because they see all their friends celebrating Cagemas that same way, and you just forget how much you’re bombarded as a kid with Cagemas. Even in schools, there’s the Cagemas pageant. Cagemas carols. The Cagemas cage where they put the Jewish kids— [Multiple people laugh.] —so that they don’t steal anyone’s blood and make matzoh out of it. It’s just a rough time of year.
stuart
									
But that’s the best matzoh. [Elliott laughs.]
dan
									
Right. And, y’know, Nicolas Cage comes by and gives all the cage-man kids, y’know, white pythons and, y’know, pyramid mortuaries to—like, as presents.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Yeah, yeah. If you’re a good—and Mongolian tyrannosaurus skulls that he has to return. Yeah. Stuart: Yeah. First appearance of Superman. That sort of thing. Josh: And I always—
josh
									
And I was always asking my parents, why do we celebrate Jean-Claude Van Damme? [All laugh.] And they were like, “It’s eight nights of Jeannuclaude!
elliott
									
No, you see, he was only supposed to be able to do splits on a table. But he jumped and did a split on a kitchen counter! It was a miracle! [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
Yep. He does so many splits, that guy. [All laugh.]
elliott
									
Yeah. He only had enough crotch for one split, but he did eight splits!
dan
									
I mean, it is the best way to show off that amazing butt.
stuart
									
Oh my lord.
elliott
									
It is—it is—yeah. Come on. And Dan, of course, speaking for the butt-worshippers. That’s his religion.
dan
									
Mm-hm. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Now—this—why, I guess, Primal? That’s the question our audience is asking right now.
stuart
									
Yeah. I mean, I feel like this is a year when there’s been so many great Nicolas Cage movies have just poured down the pipeline. [Josh laughs.] Why did we take out our panning pan, stick it into the river of Cagemas movies, and pull out this one?
dan
									
I mean… I do think that we had a lot of Jiu Jitsu partisans on Twitter and I’m sure we will get to that? But at this moment we’re like, “Let’s go with the one we can watch with our Hulu subscription—” [Stuart laughs.] “—rather than paying for Jiu Jitsu.” So that was the thing behind that one. And then like, y’know, the other movies he was in this year—like, I mean, people have been trying to get us to do Color Out of Space And I’m like, “What are you talking about? That is a great movie! I love Color Out of Space!”
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s ‘cause it is a big Nicolas Cage performance. Elliott: I still haven’t seen it yet but I really want to. Dan: Mm-hm.
stuart
									
And sometimes—y’know, I don’t wanna speak ill of people—but sometimes people see a big Nicolas Cage performance and they think it’s a bad Nicolas Cage performance. And I’m like, “No, no, no! No, no, no, no, no! No, no!” [Multiple people laugh.] “That’s a good Nicolas Cage performance.”
josh
									
Yeah. It’s like going to Benihana and being like, “Just give me the food!” [Inaudible] you’re coming here for! [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
You might be at the wrong restaurant if that’s what you’re looking for, sir.
josh
									
Yeah.
elliott
									
[Through laughter] I love the idea that someone is just like, “I just had a long flight. I just wanna stop—I just checked into my hotel. What’s the nearest restaurant? Ben Hana’s? Okay, great. I’ll try it.” And then he’s just like, “Give me my—why are you just flipping one shrimp at a time at me? I don’t want it to go in your hat! Just give it to me! Come on!”
josh
									
“I’m so hungry. I’m so hungry now.” [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
“It is almost as if dinner is the show right now, and that is not what I want, sir.” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
“Let me just bang my fist on the table in anger! Ahh! Oh god! Ahhh! It’s so hot! This table!” [Multiple people laugh.] “It’s like the table is a griddle! What’s going on here?” [Dan laughs.]
stuart
									
“I’ll be taking my business to Medieval Times from now on.” [All laugh.]
dan
									
“They have none of this shenanigans.” [All laugh.]
stuart
									
Oh man.
josh
									
“Just mutton without fuss.”
elliott
									
“Just give me—all I want is to sit at my table, eat a squab with my hands while I drink Pepsi out of a mug, and not have to deal with any sort of drama.” [All laugh.]
stuart
									
So. Um, kind of on the subject of Medieval Times, this movie begins in the rainforest in Brazil. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Okay. I mean, that’s an interesting segue in that those two things are not related at all.
stuart
									
Well, well the reason—here’s the connection. If you go to a Medieval Times, there’s a chance you’ll see an exhibition of falconry. Falcons do not live in the rainforest— [Multiple people laugh.] —but other birds do.
elliott
									
Okay. It’s a very—I mean, I feel like that is the equivalent—you took a false—you shoved it in a pumpkin and you said, “There, that works. Turn it on.” And I’m like, “Okay, I’ll go with it.”
stuart
									
So yeah. Movie begins. Smash cut. [Multiple people laugh.] Rainforest, Brazil: Exterior. Nicolas Cage playing a character named Frank? Walsh?
elliott
									
Walsh.
josh
									
My second-favorite Nicolas Cage character named Frank, after—of course—Frank Cadillac from the movie Next.
stuart
									
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah! Is that the one where he knows what’s gonna happen next?
josh
									
Yeah. Oh yeah. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
That’s the one where he runs a deli and he’s just constantly yelling out “Next!” [Multiple people laugh.] But then one day, the ticket machine breaks. Nobody has a number ticket. And he doesn’t know what to do. And he goes into a spiral. Kills a lot of people. And then eventually—he like shoves one guy’s hand into the meat slicer? And just keeps slicing away? And I’m like, “Take your hand out of there!” Until it’s just like a stump. He just slices the hand away. Oh. What a great movie. Anyway. Next. That’s my recommendation for this week, I guess. [Laughs.] [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
So Nextolas Cage sits at a hunter’s blind, reading a real estate listing. He has a bunch of traps set up and he senses something is up in the woods. That’s right—a white jag attacks his traps! And then attacks him!
dan
									
Now let’s be clear that this is a jaguar the cat. A white Jag, y’know, the car did not like run into the tree that he was set up in.
josh
									
Yeah. Not that someone’s uncle who works in finance and knows what was cool 35 years ago.
elliott
									
Yeah, yeah. And it also wasn’t the star of the TV show JAG, David James Elliott, who is white. Y’know. But, y’know.
crosstalk
									
Dan: [Laughs.] That’s the star of JAG? David James Elliott? Elliott: Yeah. Yeah. Stuart: Was his character named “Jag”? Is that why it was called JAG?
dan
									
I’ve never heard of this person in my life and I know that that is a tremendously popular show.
elliott
									
It was on the air for ten years, Dan! He played the lead character, Harmon Rabb, Jr., a name I’m sure you’re familiar with. [Dan laughs.]
josh
									
Your mastery over JAG makes it sound like you had to write a paper on JAG at some point, which can’t be true.
elliott
									
I majored—I majored in JAG studies. For my grad degree. I have a doctorate in JAG. Yeah. [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Josh: You majored in Jagriculture. Stuart: So this white jag attacks— [All laugh.]
elliott
									
I’ve always—it was always my dream to be named Secretary of Jagriculture. In the cabinet. And I was hoping Biden would tap me, but unfortunately he did not. For that job he just tapped me on the shoulder in a kind of creepy way and then said, “Hey, looking good!” And I was like, “I like you, but that was not okay.” [Multiple people laugh.] And maybe in the next administration. Who knows. Dan, I assume that you’re just more familiar with Patrick Labyorteaux character, Budric “Bud” Roberts, Jr., also on JAG.
stuart
									
Oh, is Dan watching an episode of JAG now and that’s why he’s not paying attention to the show? [Multiple people laugh.] Yeah, that makes sense.
elliott
									
So I think he might’ve frozen ‘cause he’s streaming JAG right now. Anyway. So Stuart, a white jaguar—a white jag-u-ar, attacks Nicolas Cage. And what happens.
stuart
									
From this point on—to be referred to exclusively as a white jag—attacks Nicolas Cage. They roll around on the ground—
elliott
									
Kills him. Movie over. [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
Very short.
stuart
									
They roll around on the ground and Nic manages to stab the jaguar in the shoulder with a tranq dart, and the cat eventually collapses, blood covering its maw. Nicolas Cage’s blood? Thankfully not. Cut to a small village where Nicolas Cage has an argument with his driver Diego, who refuses to drive him, citing the “gato fantasma,” a local legend about a white jaguar. From here on out, known as a white jag. [Multiple people laugh.] Nicolas Cage says, “That is not a maneater, nope”—that the white jag is worth a million bucks. So he has to drive this thing by himself through the jungle. And at this point I’m like, “Oh my god, this is gonna be like Sorcerer, but instead of dynamite it’s a white jag.”
dan
									
Now I’d like to take issue with this scene. Because Nicolas Cage, y’know, yeah. He makes a big point about how this is not a maneater. He’s like only—I think he said—tigers and polar bears will stalk humans as prey. And then the rest of the movie does its best to undercut this is [through laughter] definitely a man-eating jag.
elliott
									
Well I think there’s—oh sorry, Josh.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: You talk and then I’ll talk. Josh: Oh no, go ahead. I think we might be about to say the same thing.
josh
									
Let’s say it in unison. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
Okay. Uh— [Multiple people laugh.] You go first and then I’ll tell ya if it was the thing I was thinking.
josh
									
Okay! I was gonna say that it does seem like—I don’t think he’s saying it’s not dangerous, ‘cause I had that same thought. I think he’s saying the don’t wanna eat you. But I don’t think he means it won’t kill you. Like I think he’s implying, like, “This is a big dangerous cat, but they’re not trying to eat and consume humans.”
crosstalk
									
Elliott: It’s not like when the jaguar— Stuart: No, it’s hunting for fun and sport.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Yeah, yeah. When the jaguar looks at a person, he doesn’t see a big chicken leg? Dan: [Laughs.] Like a Predator.
elliott
									
Or like a can that says “Jaguar Food”? Yeah, instead he sees like a toy or a doll that he can rip apart with his mouth. Now, that’s—I was gonna say that, but I was also gonna say—this beginning sets up Nicolas Cage as being not the greatest guy, and also not really being that great at his job. He’s very good at catching animals, but he doesn’t seem to really understand animals. And this is shown by his kind of cantankerous rivalry-friendship with a parrot that’s always chasing him? And this parrot is a character that is not given his due in the movie. There is so much—like, that character has so much potential and they never use it. So coulda been his Iago, and they just don’t go with it. Y’know. Disappointing.
dan
									
Well also, I—at this point in the movie, I’m like, “Is this movie going to ask me to sympathize with someone who is trafficking in endangered animals?” [Laughs.] “Is that the game the movie is playing ‘cause I am not necessarily gonna go along with that, movie.” Now by the end they make some small stabs at making his motivations more sympathetic? But it still seems like—I’m just like, “I don’t know, guys.” [Laughs.]
stuart
									
He’s trafficking animals to save an orphanage, right? Because some land developer’s gonna bulldoze the orphanage so the only way he can save it is—
dan
									
Yes. And then the animals are gonna breakdance.
elliott
									
Yeah. The only way to win it back is if a white jaguar breakdances and that means they can raise the money to save the rec center orphanage. Yeah.
josh
									
I would pay to see that show. I would be like, “Wow. This is great.” And if the breakdancing doesn’t work, the white jaguar could just maim the land developers.
stuart
									
[Laughs.] Oh, yeah!
elliott
									
That’s another good idea.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Now Stuart, you said he’s about to— Stuart: Good to have a Plan B.
elliott
									
He’s about to get in the truck. This is going to be a Wages of Fear/Sorcerer style just like white-knuckle thrill-ride as he tries to drive down these rocky, steep, kind of just overgrown jungle roads with this dangerous animal in the back of the truck. It’s just a two-hander—him and the—
josh
									
While he’s drinking!
elliott
									
While he’s drinking! It’s a two-hander, just Nic Cage and this jaguar. The jaguar versus the Cageuar in this drive. That’s the movie, right, Stu?
stuart
									
Yeah. That’s—you know what? You would think, like, a lesser movie would make that the entire plot. But nope. That’s just the credit sequence. Where we get somewhat thrilling music and kind of simple shots of the car driving through the jungle. [Elliott laughs.] We get all the credits during this time. The name Primal hits the screen. We’re pumped. Okay. [Dan laughs.] Now we mentioned earlier that sometimes Nicolas Cage will bring—let’s say—a large performance. And sometimes Nicolas Cage brings kind of a more subdued performance. We’ve already gotten a little bit of a taste of Nicolas Cage and we’re going to get, obviously, a full meal over the course of this movie. [Elliott laughs.] So what do you guys think so far? I think he’s bringing the goods today, guys! He’s chomping on a [exaggerates the pronunciation of “cigar”] cee-gar, he’s stomping around. He’s being a jerk to literally everybody in the movie. What do you guys think?
elliott
									
Now this is a—I would say this is what I would call “Middle Cage,” which is not bad. We all reach Middle Cage eventually and it’s just natural and healthy.
josh
									
God willing!
elliott
									
Yeah! Thank you! Yes—from my mouth to god’s ears for all of us, yeah. Does God have ears? That’s kind of the weird thing. He’s just kind of a disembodied universal spirit but he’s got big ears. [Multiple people laugh.] So that—this is the kind of Cage that we see in Stolen, where—
crosstalk
									
Elliott: —he’s not—he’s—who does? Well ‘cause he’s got an elephant’s head, yeah. Stuart: I mean, Ganesh has big ears, right? And Ganesh is a god. Ganesh? Yeah.
elliott
									
But that’s not his birth head. So. But— [Josh laughs.] It’s not Nicolas Cage, big Bad Lieutenant, and it’s not Nicolas Cage, Bangkok Dangerous just sleepwalking through it. This is Stolen Nicolas Cage where you’re like, “This is the Nicolas Cage that should be starring in a one-hour procedural that I would watch every episode of and it would be super fun! Call it NCIS: Nicolas Cage Investigative Services.” [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
Yeah. I would say this is a medium Nicolas Cage and then occasionally we’ll get a taste of a crazier Cage in there.
josh
									
I agree. I feel like you get—occasionally his line readings will be like—
elliott
									
O-Cage-ionally?
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Yeah, o-Cage-ionally, yes. Josh: [Through laughter] O-Cage-ionally, yes. Of course. [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
Like when he—like, him being in a feud with a parrot. That kind of—he kind of peaks occasionally? Where someone is like, “What is this parrot?” And he’s like, “A REAL EINSTEIN!” And it’s like, “You didn’t need to come in that hot, Cage. You really—this—like, what did this parrot do to you?” But I kind of like his—he’s got kind of like an aggrieved schlub attitude. Like it’s almost Cagestanza. Like, George Cagestanza. He’s just like constantly coming up with rules that no one else plays by. He’s mad at things that no one else knew was a thing. It’s great.
stuart
									
And you’re like—the whole time you’re like, “Famke Janssen’s character is flirting with you, dude! Be nice! You don’t have to be a jerk to everyone!” [All laugh.]
elliott
									
Josh: And he’s like— Dan: Is she? [Laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Elliott: I mean, it’s learning in the way— Josh: I read The Game and I read for The Game—Jean-Van got it—and so this is how I treat women.
elliott
									
It’s the kind of African Queen Humphrey Boogart—Boogart. That’s for Halloween. [Multiple people laugh.] Humphrey Bogart/Katharine Hepburn flirting where it’s like, “We hate each other. And then suddenly we love each other.” It’s that kind of flirting. Y’know.
dan
									
I mean, I would say— [Laughs.] One of the things I liked about this movie is I think at the beginning of the movie, Famke Janssen? Is it Janssen [pronounces it “Yahn-sen”] or Janssen [pronounces it “Jansen”]?
elliott
									
I would say Jansen, but I might be wrong.
dan
									
Famke Janssen is like…
elliott
									
Famous Amos. That’s the—yeah. Famke—she goes—it’s pronounced “Famous Amos” but it’s spelled Famke Janssen. She makes cookies.
dan
									
Famous Amos is appropriately kind of… treating Nicolas Cage as like this drunk asshole. And then as the movie goes on, she acquires a baseline appreciation for like how he’s good at helping in this situation. And at the end there’s like, the glimmer of maybe there could be a romance. But I like that for the most part, they dispense with the idea that just because there’s a man and a woman in the movie they have to like each other.
stuart
									
Baseline appreciation equals flirting, Dan. That’s what I said. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
[Through laughter] Okay.
josh
									
Well this is also kind of the relationship, like, latter-day Steven Seagal has with the female leads in his movies? Where the person who’s directing the movie kind of rightly realizes, like, “No one wants to see this happen.” [Multiple people laugh.] Like, “Nobody wants to see them hooking up.” [Through laughter] Like, Nicolas Cage is not—does not cut a sensuous figure in this movie. He’s belligerent. He’s rude and unpleasant and he’s kinda like unkempt. It’s just like—it’s like a bridge too far. Like at the end of the movie where it seems like they have a kind of an appreciation for one another and maybe a companionship? You still aren’t like, “God, I hope they go for it.” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Yeah. They can make it work.
dan
									
“Grudging respect” is what they reach.
josh
									
Yeah. Yeah.
elliott
									
And I think there’s—I mean, Nicolas Cage and Famke Janssen are the same age, I believe. So I appreciate that the movie has two stars where, if they did get into a romance, you’d be like, “That’s great. I don’t have to imagine Nicolas Cage macking all over some woman 40 years younger than him.” Y’know.
crosstalk
									
Dan and Stuart: Yeah.
dan
									
You’re like, “That’s great! It’s nice that he found someone!” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Yeah! You know what? They could build—they’ve got a shared frame of reference. They grew up at the same time. They’re at the same place in life. Like they really could build a stable—not particularly exciting, but like, y’know, just a good relationship where they see each other when they see each other and there’s no expectations because—what, are they gonna raise a family together? No! Y’know, it’s companionship.
josh
									
They both have their own careers. They’re not expecting one to do favors for the other. One’s not 26 years younger and pretending to be Spanish, let’s say. [All laugh.]
stuart
									
And I mean, they’re gonna have that white jag money. And a house on Pine Lake? Is that what he keeps talking about?
elliott
									
That’s what he wants. The whole time he’s just talking about how—I mean, when we first see him reading that real estate magazine while he’s sitting in the hunter’s blind, it’s like, that tableau tells us everything we need to know about Nic Cage in this movie. He is real-estate hungry. He’s a hunter. And he’s not taking care of himself.
stuart
									
No.
josh
									
It also gives you the kind of like—the nuance that went into making the movie, right? Like, the magazine was called “Real Estate.” It just said “Real Estate” on the front. [Multiple people laugh.] There was no, like, title on the magazine. There was no location on it. They’re just like, “He’s looking at houses! I dunno, real estate, idiot! Write it on the front!” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Now, I just want to mention—again—‘cause I don’t think we’re gonna talk about it much. This parrot—we learn later—has a trick where he can say, when he sees a gun he says “Take the shot! Take the shot!” This never pays off. Which is—the minute they did that, I was like, “Eventually, Nic Cage is gonna have to shoot the bad guy and the parrot’s gonna say ‘Take the Shot.’” But it does not happen.
dan
									
Hold on. I thought… doesn’t it? I think that like—later on, doesn’t he say, “Hey, idiot, my gun isn’t drawn.” When the parrot says, “Take the shot.” And then he like—the parrot flies off and he gets suspicious. He’s like, “Oh, maybe this parrot saw another gun” and that’s when he briefly finds the bad guy.
crosstalk
									
Dan: I’m getting ahead of ourselves, but. Elliott: That is the most minimal—that’s a minimal payoff.
elliott
									
We’re being paid pennies on the dollar if that’s the payoff for that bit. The payoff should be that Nicolas Cage gets told by the parrot [through laughter] when to shoot the bad guy! [Laughs.]
dan
									
That’s true.
josh
									
Yeah. Just with kind of an “Ed Harris wearing a beret” intensity, if that makes sense. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
It makes the most sense.
josh
									
Thank you.
elliott
									
Now I just imagine Ed Harris coming back from a trip to Paris and he’s like, “Call me Ed Paris. I’m gonna be French now.” And he’s just wearing a beret and listening to a lot of Edith Piaf music? And just being like, “Oh.”
josh
									
Serge Gainsbourg?
elliott
									
We gotta make that happen. Guys? Let’s start a Kickstarter to send Ed Harris to Paris. [All laugh.]
dan
									
Yeah. Forget Emily in Paris. Harris in Paris. That’s [inaudible].
elliott
									
Well it was originally called Ed Harris in Paris and then Ed Harris dropped out at the last minute and they replaced him with Emily.
josh
									
And then it was supposed to rhyme and now it still rhymes. Emily in Paris [pronounces it the French “Par-ee”]. I was actually at the concert where Jay-Z and Kanye West performed “Ed Harris in Paris” like thirteen times in a row? And people were psyched. It was fun. [Elliott laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: So Nicolas Cage is loading his exotic— Elliott: So where does he drive through?
stuart
									
Nicolas Cage is loading his exotic animal collection onto a container ship. [Josh laughs.] He’s annoyed because the ship is going to have to stop at Puerto Rico and that’s gonna mess up his timetable. When a bunch of armed soldiers—led by a US Marshall played by Michael Imperioli—arrive to escort a prisoner—played by the one, the only Kevin Durand—Flop House fave! Who is doing like a kind of a Hannibal Lecter soldier type thing?
elliott
									
In my notes I refer to it as “Hannibal Lecter by way of your friend’s uncle’s impression of Hannibal Lecter.” [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
It also felt to me—the Nicolas Cage presence also made it feel like, “Oh, this is Cyrus the Virus. Like, this is Con Boat is what we’re about to do.”
dan
									
Yeah. That is definitely Con Boat. It is Animal. It is Snakes on a Plane with more animals crossed with Con Boat. And I think Kevin Durand is also like—he’s like, “Well, Nicolas Cage is in this movie. I got whatever scenery he is leaving unchewed, I gotta jump on that. I gotta eat up those scraps.”
elliott
									
[Inaudible] is like, “I better match Nic Cage’s intensity” and then after the third day of shooting is like, “Are you gonna amp it all, Nic? Or am I like—‘cause I feel like I’m unbalanced here.” So just—I just wanted to pitch to you guys this idea off of the concept Con Boat, which I love. Okay. Okay. Thor Heyerdahl wants to prove that it’s possible. People can travel great distances using like a log-built raft boat. Unfortunately, his crew is made up of escaped convicts. That’s right! It’s Con—C-O-N—Tiki. And it’s exploration. It’s adventure. It’s action. And at the end, somehow, this wooden raft explodes. Guys? [Dan laughs.] How much money will you pay me to make this movie? [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Dan: Ummm… well. Stuart: I mean, a wooden raft’s not that expensive, right?
stuart
									
So you don’t need that much money.
josh
									
But I’m gonna need a bunch ‘cause we’re gonna blow it up a few times in the movie.
stuart
									
Oh, okay.
elliott
									
So you’re paying for—but also, the talent I’m hoping to get in this movie is enormous. You’re gonna have probably Gary Oldman as Thor Heyerdahl? ‘Cause we’ve seen he can play someone much younger than himself in Mank. There was at no point during Mank where I was like, “No, this is clearly an old man pretending to be a much younger man.” [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Josh: It’s an “Oldman” pretending to be a much younger man. [Laughs.] Elliott: This is a 43— [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
I’m watching a 43-year-old, and sometimes a 35-year-old in the flashbacks, and I’m totally buying the illusion that this is the person I’m seeing. And then for the—
stuart
									
Now, I haven’t seen Mank, but do they do the same technique as when they do, like, Better Call Saul flashbacks? And they just brush Bob Odenkirk’s hair forward? And you’re like, “He’s a 20-year-old! Slippin’ Jimmy over here!”
elliott
									
They don’t even do that. Mank kind of exists in a world where he is always an old man, even when he’s a young man. And for the convicts I was thinking the Muppets. So that’s gonna make the shoot much more expensive, ‘cause I just saw Muppet Treasure Island and I was like, “Yes. That’s how to do it. Muppets on the open seas.” So that’s gonna make it more expensive.
dan
									
Yeah. You’re gonna have to have divers underneath doing the Muppet—I—y’know, Elliott, I’ve never financed a movie before, but that’s probably not a dangerous investment. So sure. I’ll— [Laughs.] I’ll put money in.
elliott
									
I mean, it is a dangerous investment, Dan, ‘cause my lawyer is a shark. Literally. And he will eat you during negotiations.
josh
									
They call that “The Most Dangerous Investment.” [All laugh.] [Through laughter] Where you invest in Elliott’s movie and then a shark hunts you.
elliott
									
Yeah. You’re shipwrecked on an island where a guy is trying to sell you Bitcoin, and that’s the most dangerous investment. So Stu, who else? So okay. So they’re all getting on the boat. I apologize. We’re like—
crosstalk
									
Stuart: No, it’s okay. We all got very excited. Elliott: —ten minutes into the movie. [Laughs.]
stuart
									
When Michael Imperioli and Famke Janssen show up. Famke Janssen plays the special doctor who’s there to look after the prisoner. Now, this prisoner’s not only dangerous, but he also suffers from a rare condition where if he goes to a certain altitude, he’ll have a seizure and die. That’s why he’s on the boat and not on a plane.
josh
									
This is the second movie I’ve seen in the last two weeks where that happens, but in the first movie it’s a secret. So I won’t say what movie it is. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Elliott, Dan and Stuart: Ohhh! Stuart: Okay! Oh, interesting! Well that’s— Elliott: It’s a movie called Secret Seizure.
stuart
									
Yeah. Pay attention to the episode. Josh will be dropping little Easter eggs the whole time.
josh
									
Little clues as to what other movies I’ve seen the last two weeks. [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. [Laughs.] Okay. So Nicolas Case makes friends by—
elliott
									
Let’s just say, one of them took place in 1984, and I’m not saying George Orwell wrote it. Ehhhh? [All laugh.]
stuart
									
So Nicolas Cage makes friends with people on the boat by being a huge asshole to everybody. [Elliott laughs.] He explains that he’s selling that white jag to the highest-bidding zoo. He originally went to find a regular jag for peanuts, but now he found this white one. So man, he’s gonna make bank. The feds are transporting an elite assassin counterterrorist who, as I said, can’t fly because of a malformation on his brain that would kill him if he changes altitude, so there’s a reason they’re on a boat, guys. Okay? [Elliott laughs.] Chill out.
dan
									
Also the romance of, y’know, boat travel. [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
That’s the thing.
dan
									
He comes on with a big steamer trunk? [All laugh.] There are other convicts waving handkerchiefs as they leave.
elliott
									
Yeah, yeah. This. [Laughs.]
stuart
									
Now the convict’s name is Loffler, so I’m going to try and refer to him as Loffler, or maybe sometimes Kevin Durand for the rest of this. So Nicolas Cage introduces—
elliott
									
Now what’s Famke Janssen’s character’s name?
stuart
									
Doctor Taylor?
elliott
									
Okay, you’re right. It is Doctor Taylor. I didn’t think you were gonna get the last name.
dan
									
I would not have gotten any of that.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Wow. Josh: You know she’s a serious lady ‘cause her name is two jobs. [All laugh.]
stuart
									
Professional. Yeah. So Nicolas Cage introduces the son of the captain ‘cause the captain’s kid—that was originally gonna be the name of the movie, is Captain’s Kid? [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Realized that didn’t make sense. Or Con Boat: Captain’s Kid? Dan: Cash that captain’s kid. Elliott: Captain’s Kid.
stuart
									
Or ConBoat Captain Kid, Colon?
elliott
									
It’s called ConToddy, and it’s—three toddlers have to sail a raft across the ocean to prove that toddlers could’ve populated South America or wherever? [Dan laughs.]
stuart
									
Elliott is really banking on Contiki jokes this whole episode, right?
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Yeah. And it’s not even a book I read recently. Stuart: You got like four more?
elliott
									
I read this book 25 years ago I think? Anyway, it’s by Tot Hyerdoll. D-O-L-L, like a kid’s toy.
stuart
									
So Nic Cage is introducing this kid to his menagerie of critters. Not actually Critters, the Crites from outer space. These are normal animals. But he describes each of these animals so you know each of the specific things he mentions are going to come back later. So when he talks about these monkeys peeling off your face? Start watching your face boys, ‘cause these monkeys are gonna get loose and start face peeling.
elliott
									
And when he talks about how his parrot says “Take the shot,” do not get your hopes up.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: That will not play into the climax. Stuart: Do not get your hopes up. You will be bummed. [Dan laughs.]
dan
									
Also—I don’t know if you guys had this problem. I could not tell. Parrots are not known for their ability to enunciate? So I actually didn’t know what that parrot was saying? I shoulda put on the subtitles for the parrot.
josh
									
Yeah. Because he—the thing he was saying was the parrot hates guns. Right? That was a trait of this parrot’s personality.
dan
									
Right. So I would not expect “Take the shot” if he hates guns. [Laughs.] Or maybe he just hates people holding guns and not shooting them. Who knows. [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Yeah. [Inaudible] Yeah. Josh: Unless he’s a big fan of—his favorite gun, Chekhov’s. [All laugh.] Dan: Yeah.
dan
									
The parrot’s like, “Production for use! Production for use!” That was for Elliott, by the way.
elliott
									
Oh thank you, thank you. Yeah. His Girl Friday. Anyway, so—also, which animals are CGI and which are not? The white jaguar is very clearly a computer-animated jaguar.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Oh, wow. Wait—really? Elliott: The monkeys—are they real monkeys? [Through laughter] I hate to—I hate to break it to you, Stu— Josh: They reappropriated it from like a Sega CD game from 1996. [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. It seemed like a demo—like a sound effect reel they would play before a DVD? [Laughs.] Like a production reel?
elliott
									
Yeah. If that jaguar were any more CGI he would be winking and rapping at some point during the movie. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
I mean, I think that in the cages, maybe, there were some real animals? But I think everything was CGI after that.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Even the tapirs? Dan: Maybe not the snake. Maybe not the snake. Elliott: The tapir—
elliott
									
The tapirs looked real!
crosstalk
									
Elliott: I’ll say that! I think they got a real tapir onto that boat. Stuart: They looked delicious.
elliott
									
In which case, more power to ya! God help you! I’ve tried and it’s hard to get a tapir onto a boat.
stuart
									
I mean, Nicolas Cage trains his own tapirs. So. [Elliott laughs.] Yeah.
josh
									
That’s what he does—well, he trains them, and then you have to pay him to have them in the movie? It’s like a grift he’s got going on. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
									
They just—they wanted to—well actually, they wanted to hire his tapirs for the movie and he’s like, “If I get the role.” “Uh, well we kinda already promised it to Michael Dudikoff.” “No, no, no. It’s my movie now.” [Multiple people laugh.] “These tapirs—"
josh
									
“These tapirs are the best in Hollywood!”
elliott
									
“Well we’ll just use pigs instead!” “Are you kidding me? I know pigs are roughly the same shape and size as tapirs, but it is not gonna look as good on camera.” “No, I mean, we’ll get a pig and we’ll put like a little trunk on it.” “No, no, no, no, no.”
josh
									
“You wanna come in with a pig? Our movie Primal is gonna seem generic!” [All laugh.] “If we use pigs instead of tapirs!” [Dan laughs.]
elliott
									
Now imagine this same movie, but it’s made by kids and all the animals are just their pets? So it’s like dogs and cats but they’re pretending they’re wild animals? That would be pretty cute.
josh
									
It would be pretty cute. Like if a bunch of kids did a Be Kind—was it Be Kind Rewind? Was that the Mos Def/Jack Black movie?
crosstalk
									
Elliott, Stuart, and Dan: Yeah.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Or like those kids— Stuart: Or the little kids with like soot smeared on his face—
stuart
									
—to look like five o’clock shadow like Nicolas Cage has? [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
									
Oh yeah. That’d be adorable. Yeah.
stuart
									
Chomping on a cee-gar. It’d be a candy cigar, ‘cause, y’know, children shouldn’t even be pretending to smoke a cigar ‘cause I think that just sends a bad message to kids, right?
elliott
									
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, nobody should really be smoking cigars. I hope the tobacco lobby doesn’t come out, but there’s really no good side to it. You get—
stuart
									
I mean, they smell bad and you look like an asshole!
dan
									
I don’t know. How— [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Dan: —without cigars, how would you know— Elliott: Yeah! I mean, best-case scenario—
elliott
									
Best-case scenario, you look like Rudy Giuliani and is that really such a good-case scenario? [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
But without cigars how would you know that someone was a newspaper editor? Like—
josh
									
That’s true!
elliott
									
But you might also think they’re just very rich!
dan
									
That’s true.
elliott
									
If they’re chomping on a cee-gar.
stuart
									
Okay. So…
elliott
									
Only one person should chomp on cee-gars, and that’s the alligator from Pogo. So.
josh
									
This—it’s—okay.
dan
									
Or Mrs. E. C. Segar. [All laugh.]
elliott
									
Whoa! Whoa! Dan, some blue humor about the creator of Popeye!
josh
									
At this point in the movie, right, when they bring in Loffler and they’re like, he’s being openly contemptuous of them in a very—that, I think, was that vibe of his open contempt for the law that was—whose charge he was in? That’s what felt, to me, like Con Air. And it was like, at that moment, like, as soon as they lock him into that cage and she’s watching over him and she’s like, “I’m always on call as his neurologist,” I like turned to my wife and was like, “How many minutes do you think until he fakes a seizure and gets out and kills everyone?” Right? That’s what we’re angling for here? [Laughs.] It could not be otherwise.
stuart
									
Yeah. Basically the next scene. He says he wants a Coke. They don’t bring him a Coke, of course. I mean, it’s probably because of branding or something? Eventually somebody gives him a Coke and that’s what lets him do a seizure? Are we to believe that he managed to get ahold of the coke and then he let the foam… fake a seizure? Do—I don’t know. It doesn’t matter.
elliott
									
I don’t remember them handing him the Coke. I thought they put it just far enough outside his cage so that he couldn’t reach it to taunt him. And then he was like, “Oh, that’s the last straw. Now I’m definitely killing everybody on this boat.”
josh
									
“Now I’m gonna kill all these army men and women.” [Elliott laughs.]
stuart
									
Yeah. So he fakes a seizure. The two guards try and go in and stop him from having a seizure and of course he breaks free and murders both of them. And now that he’s free, ho, ho, ho, he’s got a machine gun. He leaves dead bodies in his wake—
elliott
									
One of the guards does the most foolish thing you can do if a super-assassin is having a seizure in front of you, which is he tries to open his mouth with his hands? Of course he’s just gonna bite down on those hands just like Nic Cage, slicing off fingers in Next, the movie about the guy who kills everybody at that deli. [Josh laughs.] And that’s just a bad idea. You wanna keep your hands away from the mouth of any sort of mass murderer. That’s just—I’m just gonna tell you. Unless you are a licensed dictator dentist—that’s the guy who goes and handles, y’know, like, dictators’ teeth, y’know, then you don’t wanna put your hands anywhere near the mouth of a mass murderer. I’ll just tell ya that.
josh
									
As Busta Rhymes would say, “If you really wanna party with me, keep your hands where that guy can’t eat.” [All laugh.] I apologize. That’s just what my brain was gonna think at this hour of the day whether I was on this podcast or not.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Elliott: Yeah. Mr. Rhymes, we mean no disrespect at all.
elliott
									
It was just Josh having fun. Please don’t get mad. Busta Rhymes—we’ve had a contentious relationship with him. Y’know. So. [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
Yeah, I mean—I’m certainly very jealous of his glow-up recently. He went from, y’know, being like a larger fellow to a very in-shape fellow during quarantine. It’s—I think that’s the kind of thing that can inspire all of us. Okay. So— [Multiple people laugh.] So they—Loffler gets loose. They make a plan to catch him that involves moving everybody to a secure part of the ship. But of course Nicolas Cage wants to feed his animals. It’s been too long. They need food. However, they convince him not to worry about it. [Dan laughs.] And they wanna secure all the civilians so that the soldiers can finally hunt the most dangerous game—that’s right—this guy, Loffler. [Elliott laughs.] Loffler lets out Frank’s animals. Of course they try to, like—they let the cook out and they’re like, “Hey, you should go to the kitchen and make everybody a bunch of food.” I guess to lift their spirits. [Elliott laughs.] That’s a big mistake because Loffler left a monkey trap where he left a bunch of monkeys in the kitchen. [Dan laughs.]
elliott
									
Classic monkey trap! You just put monkeys in a room and wait ‘til someone goes in.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: And those monkeys totally murder this dude. Dan: Well, also, like—
dan
									
This monkey trap really works extra because apparently this chef really, really hates monkeys? Like, immediately he’s just like got his meat cleaver, hacking wildly at these monkeys. Which—
crosstalk
									
Dan: —y’know, I don’t know. Josh: He really took his eye off the ball. [Elliott laughs.]
josh
									
Like he—there’s like a murder—an assassin, right? A military-trained rogue assassin loose on the ship that they’re trying to avoid. And he’s like, “Oh, time to settle this score first!” [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Do you think he’s trying to—he’s like, “Maybe if I totally kill these monkeys really gross, the assassin will give himself up ‘cause he’ll know I’m not to be messed with.” [Josh laughs.] Well his plan backfires because the monkeys knock him on the ground and strip the meat from his bones like a Critterball rolling over a running-away guy. [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
									
A lotta Critter talk in this one! I like it! This is—
stuart
									
Oh, man, I love it. [Dan laughs.] It’s on HBO Max! Or at least it was the last time I watched it on HBO Max. So— [Laughs.] So. [Josh laughs.] Yeah. So Nicolas Cage manages to sneak loose. He goes to find his animals. He bumps into Loffler—oh, no. He—Nicolas Cage manages to get a radio. Loffler has a radio and they kind of like bond over the radio, having both been soldiers? Nicolas Cage has to track down all his animals and of course he gets—
josh
									
Kinda Sleepless in Seattle moment. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Yeah! There’s a little—y’know, they, like, Nicolas Cage is like, “Maybe I put up too many walls with this attitude I take with everybody.” [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Turns out it’s not gonna work out. Elliott: Loffler’s like—Loffler’s like—
elliott
									
“This is gonna sound weird, but it’s so awkward making friends when you’re an adult. Would you—” [Josh laughs.] “Would you wanna get ice cream sometime? We don’t have to sit down for a whole meal. I know it’s weird. I know people go out for drinks but that kinda seems romantic. Can we just like… is it weird for two grown-up dudes to just go get ice cream together in the middle of the day?” And Nic Cage is like, “That’s the least weird thing I’ve ever heard.” And then it’s like, it’s the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Yeah.
stuart
									
Oh man. I’m just thinking about… thinking about pre-COVID times when you could just go for a random ice cream in the middle of the afternoon. It is really funny. Whenever my wife and I are driving around doing work, if she ever sees an adult walking around in the middle of the day just eating an ice cream cone? [Elliott laughs.] She gets, like, irrationally angry? She’s like, “You have nothing to do?!” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Really? ‘Cause my immediate reaction is, “I should do that.”
crosstalk
									
Elliott: “This guy has had a great idea.” Dan: Yeah. I don’t understand. It’s like— Josh: Yeah, yeah. Stuart: For Charlene it’s like, “Oh, la-di-dah!” [All laugh.]
dan
									
That is like the Grinchiest response. I gotta say. Nothing’s stopping her from getting ice cream if she wants to.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: I dunno. Josh: Look, buddy. You got time to cream, you got time to clean. [All laugh.]
elliott
									
That’s what they say with those topless maids. That’s what they also say. [Laughs.]
stuart
									
[Through laughter] Okay. Okay.
elliott
									
Now—that was disgusting. Sorry, Josh. Anyway. So the— [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
Thank you. Now apologize to Busta Rhymes.
elliott
									
Sorry. Apologies to Mr. Rhymes. I know you don’t like that kind of talk. So speaking of pre-COVID times, I was with my children at a public park earlier today. Masked. Very distant from everybody else. We were safely and healthily exploring the abandoned zoo cages at the Griffith Park—former L.A. zoo—which is a wonderland of rusted metal and little baggies that used to have drugs in them littering the ground. And so—and we passed by a water fountain and my younger son, who’s two, he was like, “I want a drink of water.” And I was like, “No, no, that’s turned off right now.” And I was like, “Now that seems like the most insane idea in the world.” I use “insane” not in a pejorative way. But a little bit. “To go to a thing—just out in the open in a public space—that shoots water and put your mouth right above it and shoot the water into your mouth and just kinda like—and you might wait in line to do that, behind other people, who are also just gonna put their mouths right over it.” Like, that seems crazy to me now! But I used to do it. Guys, what’s your feeling on water fountains? Is it as weird as it seems to me now that we live in a germ-topia?
dan
									
I mean, at first I was like, “What’s your problem? It’s shooting the water into your mouth. That water’s not getting reused.” But then I’m like, “There are a lot of those weirdos who put their mouth right on the thing.”
crosstalk
									
Josh: Right. Like they’re practicing for when they really get to kiss a metal robot? Elliott: Have you ever used a water fountain— Stuart: Yes. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Water fountains are not the most efficient water delivery system, and a lot of that water just dribbles right out of your mouth back onto the fountain. So it’s—
dan
									
Yeah, but they’re not reusing that water, shooting it back into your mouth. [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Dan: That goes down the drain! Stuart: Yeah. That’s not like going to like— Elliott: It’s not like that water goes into a—
elliott
									
That water doesn’t go into a separate tube to go to the wastewater area. It just falls right back into the same pipe!
dan
									
It’s got a drain, Elliott! They’re not— [Someone laughs.] That water’s not what you’re drinking.
josh
									
Yeah. This isn’t Mario Brothers. They don’t come out and down in the same— [Laughs.]
elliott
									
Alright. Well it seems bizarre to me now that I ever was like, “Oh, let me go to this germ bath and just shoot it into my face.”
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Do you need an incredible cross-section to explain how a water fountain works? Josh: It’s for sure gross. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
What seems bizarre to me is—yes. That you drank from a water fountain at any time if you thought that was how it worked. [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
I never thought about it before ‘cause I thought I would live forever! Also, it’s always seemed weird to me that I call them water fountains when I should call them drinking fountains. Every fountain is a water fountain. [Josh laughs.] Unless it’s like a samurai chopped a guy’s head off and a fountain of blood shoots out.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Or like a chocolate fountain. Elliott: Like, it’s—water fountain is redundant! Doesn’t tell you anything. Chocolate fountain. Josh: Chocolate fountain. Unless you’ve eaten a lot of fondue. Stuart: Cheese fountain. Yeah. Elliott: Yeah, that’s true. And Fountains of Wayne, I guess. Yeah. Stuart: Okay. So, uh…
stuart
									
Nicolas Cage manages to get his most important item. That’s right—his tranq gun that has a little strap that he can put around his wrist so you know that thing’s not going nowhere! [Elliott laughs.] He’s gonna have that until the grave. Let’s see. So. They all split up—all the soldiers split up, which makes a lot of sense. This gives Loffler time to infiltrate the engineers and find out all about how the ship works. He does some really good character work with these guys so they buy that he’s just a regular joe working on a boat. Of course—
elliott
									
They think he’s one of the soldiers. He gets—
josh
									
Yeah. He gave the name of one of the soldiers, as if they know all the soldiers’ names? [Elliott laughs.] And they were like, “Ah, right! Okay! That checks out!”
elliott
									
From the mixer! He’s like, “I hope these guys didn’t talk to that soldier during the mixer when we launched the boat.” [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
That’s usually what happens. Everybody gets up on the… forecastle? And…
elliott
									
Yep. The folks’ll.
stuart
									
And they drink champagne and they’re like—they wave goodbye to the people back on dry land. Right? Okay. So—it’s interesting that we’ve been talking so much about water fountains, ‘cause the next crisis is that there is no water on the boat. And you’re like, “But there’s water—water everywhere! But not a drop to drink?” [All laugh.]
elliott
									
Cue guitar solo?
stuart
									
Yep! [Laughs.] So the captain and all the people wander into the water room. They find that the water’s all drained out—like, all the tanks are busted. And there’s like sparks shooting out of the control panels. And then all of a sudden, the captain gets bitten on the leg by a snake. And not just any snake, guys! A fucking bushmaster! Stuart Wellington’s second-favorite snake of all time!
crosstalk
									
Elliott: What’s the first favorite? Yeah. What’s the ranking? Yeah. Dan: Well now we gotta ask for like the top five, I think.
stuart
									
I mean, I’m just gonna go with—Bushmaster used to be my number-one snake behind, like, Emerald Viper and an Eastern Diamondback. But—
elliott
									
Wait. So you’re saying it was your number-one snake behind two other snakes?
dan
									
Thank you, Elliott, for— [All laugh.]
stuart
									
I’m getting all worked up here. You guys are confusing me with your Bushmasters, your Emerald Vipers, but my—obviously my number-one now is the fattest of the vipers. That right—the Gaboon Viper. Not the Gambon Viper; that’s the one that welcomes you to the Layer Cake. But the Gaboon Viper, who’s the one that’s a big fatty with little horns on his nose and he looks awesome and he’s super deadly. Bushmaster? Also super deadly.
josh
									
It’s less weird that you know this much about snakes than Elliott knows that much about JAG. [All laugh.]
elliott
									
Wait! But Stuart, this reminds me—I meant to text you—did you see they discovered a new species of mata mata?
stuart
									
No! What? My favorite turtle, the mata mata? [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
Mm-hm. There’s a new species and it looks super crazy.
stuart
									
Oh my—what—wait. What does it? Don’t spoil it. I gotta look it up.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Did somebody discover? Oh. Why am I wasting my time with a podcast when I could be looking at pictures of a sweet turt’? Elliott: No, no. You—look it up afterwards. Look it up afterwards. That was my—it was my— [All laugh.]
elliott
									
It was my—that was my second-favorite natural world discovery story recently, the other one being the 57,000-year-old baby wolf that was discovered preserved in ice. But yeah. There’s a new mata mata. you’re gonna like it.
stuart
									
Oh man. Oh man. What a teaser! Oh, whew. Okay. So Bushmaster bites the captain and of course you guys were like, “Fuck, this dude is smoked!” Because a Bushmaster’s venom is super deadly. But Nicolas Cage is like, “Uh, don’t worry. It’ll be fine. Maybe we’ll get some antivenom.” Meanwhile—
dan
									
He knows he’s lying.
crosstalk
									
Dan: He knows he’s lying. Josh: Yeah, ‘cause Famke Janssen is like, “We gotta help!”
josh
									
And he’s like, [deep voice] “No, I was just lying.” [All laugh.]
dan
									
“I was trying to keep the kid happy.”
stuart
									
Well he’s trying to keep the kid happy and I think he’s looking for an excuse to just go for a little walk. Y’know? When you’re all cooped up in one room you’re like—
crosstalk
									
Stuart: I wanna—I wanna strips these getaway sticks. Elliott: Well he’s that age. He’s gotta get his steps in. Y’know? Josh: Mm-hm.
dan
									
I’m not sure if we’ve made it clear. If we have, I forgot. That the captain is the father of the kid that has sort of melted Nicolas Cage’s heart a little bit.
elliott
									
Yeah. It’s ironic ‘cause the child is the father of the man. But in this case, the captain is the father of the kid.
crosstalk
									
Stuart and Dan: Yup.
josh
									
The—and Famke Janssen keeps trying to get Nicolas Cage to do something good. [Elliott laughs.] And he keeps being like, [deep voice] “No, that’s not what I do, lady.” [Regular voice] Like, his whole thing is like— [Multiple people laugh.] [Deep voice] “I don’t care about stuff! I just wanna do my thing!” [All laugh.]
elliott
									
“Look, I’m all about real estate and selling wild animals. That’s what I do. Ask me to do one of those two things. Otherwise, I’m the bad guy. Duh.” [Singing] Doo-doo-do, do-do-do-do.
stuart
									
She looked at her—Famke Janssen looked at her horoscope and was like, “Convince one person to do a nice thing.” And she’s like, “Okay, I guess I got my marching orders!” [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Dan: Guys? Uh— Josh: It’s like, “Ugh, I picked the wrong guy!” [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
Thinking about both captains and animals, Captain Kangaroo could be so much more exciting than what it actually is? Like, if you were just basing it on the title? Like imagine it—a kangaroo who’s a captain!
stuart
									
Yeah. [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Dan: That’s all. That’s all I wanted to say. Elliott: Yeah. Sure. Well the problem is that—
elliott
									
The problem is that he’s a captain in the SS.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: So that’s the real issue. So. [Laughs.] That’s why they replaced him with Bob Keeshan. Yeah. Dan: Oh no! Hate that kangaroo. Stuart: Wow!
elliott
									
No, but you’re right, Dan. It’s—when I was a kid, certainly, Captain Kangaroo was already not hip anymore. It had been on since my parents were kids. And I certainly had an image in my head that was not borne out when they said, “Hey, watch this!” And they showed me a man that was not a kangaroo just talking about—I don’t know what.
dan
									
Just got a guy with a bowl cut. [Multiple people laugh.] And some puppets.
elliott
									
Was that also the show that Mr. Green Jeans was one? Who was the guy who had green pants? And my dad would talk about how much he loved that show and loved Mr. Green Jeans and I was like, “That must’ve been a rough time in American history when you would just be excited by a man with different colored pants.” [Dan laughs.] [Through laughter] “Like, this is the novelty he has.”
josh
									
It would’ve been pretty fun if Mr. Green Jeans was a kangaroo. [All laugh.]
elliott
									
Yeah.
josh
									
A little switcharoo right there.
dan
									
I think ping-pong balls fell from the sky at certain points. That was the other big draw in Captain Kangaroo Land.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Mm-hm. I mean, I grew up on you can’t— Stuart: Not green slime? Dan: No.
elliott
									
Well that’s the thing. I grew up on You Can’t Do That on Television. I was used to much more exciting things falling out of the sky, and also—locker room gags? Come on. When they would step out of the lockers and tell a gag?
stuart
									
I mean, it’s crazy ‘cause the whole time… I mean, correct me if I’m wrong. But they’re on television! [Elliott laughs.]
dan
									
Yeah. That’s the—well I mean, they were shut down eventually. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
Yeah.
josh
									
Yeah. OSHA. [All laugh.]
elliott
									
I mean, you can’t have a restaurant that essentially serves barf and just have—just serves vomit to kids and keep that open for too long. Eventually the government’s gonna find out. Yeah.
stuart
									
So while they’re dealing with the whole snake situation, the white jag comes out of hiding and kills one of the soldiers. That’s right—maybe it is a maneater! Or a mankiller. We’ll find out. So the— [Josh laughs.] —other soldiers are pretty pissed off. So they decide not only are they gonna kill Loffler—which Michael Imperioli’s like, “But he’s my pride and joy!” They also decide—
josh
									
“He has to get there alive! We have to take him in alive!”
stuart
									
He’s very committed. He is very much, like… he watched only—he watched Aliens, but not after Paul Reiser dies. He’s like— [Multiple people laugh.] “Paul Reiser is a good guy. It’s all gonna work out for him.”
elliott
									
“Hero of the movie. If only lousy Ripley would get out of his way and just let him do his job.” “He just wants one of them xenomorphs!” They also decide they want to kill the cat, which—of course—the cat in this case—the white jag—Nicolas Cage? Not a fan of this plan.
elliott
									
Now, this would be a bad time for me to stop momentum by making up a joke about Xenomorph’s Arrow, which is a classic ancient Greek paradox in which an arrow—which seems to be an image of movement—is actually not, because a little mini-arrow comes out of the front of it and goes through Harry Dean Stanton’s head. Anyway. [Josh laughs.] That’s Xenomorph’s Arrow. That was a waste of time. [Dan laughs.] Stuart, keep going, please.
dan
									
I think that’s the slogan of the podcast. “Well, that was a waste of time.” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
“Wasting your time since 2007.” Anyway. Stu? [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
So Doctor Taylor and Frank—this is their character’s name, obviously. It’s Famke Janssen and Nicolas Cage. [Dan laughs.] Wander off to find antivenom. [Multiple people laugh.] And just kind of to goof off for a little bit. Nicolas Cage used this as an opportunity to start hunting monkeys with his blowgun and it’s a great scene of him dipping his little blow darts in poison and spitting them on monkeys. Using a tube, not just using his mouth. That would be silly.
elliott
									
Yeah. That sounds like a ‘90s alt-rock album? “Hunting Monkeys With His Blowgun”? I don’t know why. Something about it.
josh
									
Yeah. “Standing outside a broken phone booth, hunting monkeys with my blowgun with money in my hand.” [All laugh.] It’s a Primitive Radio Gods.
elliott
									
Yeah.
dan
									
Primitive Radio Nic Cage. Yeah. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
[Through laughter] Yeah.
stuart
									
In scenes that almost mirror each other, we see the—
dan
									
Wait, Primal Radio Gods? Is that where—
crosstalk
									
Dan: —we should’ve gone with that? Oh, anyway. Josh: [Through laughter] Primal Radio Gods. That’s good.
stuart
									
In scenes that almost mirror each other, we see Nicolas Cage hunting the monkeys, and Loffler hunting the pilot and his guard with a rifle.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Ohhh. Who’s the real monkey, huh? Stuart: So he kills the—yup.
stuart
									
He kills the pilot— [Josh laughs.] —and decides to— [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
									
The real monkey, it turns out, is man. [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Oh, interesting. Loffler turns the ship around and breaks everything. Go on?
josh
									
When Loffler was shooting people like through the window from far away, I had the fun thought for no one, “Wow. Kevin Durant [Heather note: Kevin Durand plays Loffler, but Kevin Durant is a basketball player. He seems pretty specifically to be referring to the basketball player here, so I went with that spelling.] is still really great from long range, even coming back from that ruptured Achilles.” [All laugh.] Y’know, kind of a basketball/Cagemas crossover joke.
crosstalk
									
Dan: [Laughs.] Yeah. Y’know, I don’t— Stuart: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Elliott: Finally. Finally.
dan
									
I don’t know anything about basketball, but I know enough that Elliott’s text about Kevin Durand confused me a little bit? [Josh laughs.] For a second?
josh
									
That’s kind of where I live. In jokes that are mostly [through laughter] confusing. [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: So they realize the boat is go— Josh: Is it a pun or is it a mistake? Who knows! [Laughs.] Sorry.
stuart
									
The boat’s going in the wrong direction. Uh-oh! Nicolas Cage manages to get the drop on Loffler. They get in a standoff. This is one of—there’s a couple more of these scenes where they basically like just get in a fight so they can interact for a little bit and talk and then they wander off in their own directions? So they get in a standoff. He—Nicolas Cage has to choose. Is he going to shoot the white jag or Loffler with his one dart in his dart gun? His tranq gun?
elliott
									
‘Cause that jaguar—uh-oh! Here it comes! Watch out, boys, it’ll chew ‘em up! It’s a maneater! [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
Mm-hm. Yup.
josh
									
And it might eat the kid, right?
crosstalk
									
Josh: That’s—in that moment? Stuart: Yeah. It was threatening the kid. Elliott: Yeah.
stuart
									
So he—instead, of course, he shoots Loffler and then he scares the cat off with his pistol and Loffler runs away. Scene over. Nothing accomplished. [Elliott laughs.] Except Nicolas Cage, I guess, shows that he’s grown a little bit as a person. Right?
dan
									
I was a little confused by this, too, ‘cause it seemed—like, it seemed from the way this scene was shot, at first, that Nic Cage did hit him with the dart. But then the dart was on the ground and didn’t have anything missing from it. The bad guy seemed okay. I don’t know.
elliott
									
Yeah. That was—I think that’s—I think it—if I was theorizing, using information from later in the movie, ‘cause I had the same impression. I think the thing is like… it did hit him, but he pulled it out quickly? ‘Cause later he takes a couple of those darts and it takes a while for the curare to kick in. [Josh laughs.] But here it’s—I don’t know if it’s necessarily character growth for Nicolas Cage that he didn’t’ let his jaguar maul a child? ‘Cause he has that relationship with him that’s kind of like a Wallace Beery type thing where it’s like, “Ah, I’m kind of mean to this kid but I give the kid a lot of my time.” Y’know. Like, “I’m kind of a rough, gruff guy, but the fact that I’m sitting here talking with the kid shows that I really have a soft heart inside.” He’s like—or Ed Asner in Up. That kind of thing. Y’know. [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
So this is the point in the movie where we start worrying about lifeboats. Right? There’s two lifeboats, but apparently most of the crew stole one of the lifeboats and ran off which is why we haven’t been seeing them. The leader of this—
elliott
									
Really helped cut down the budget that the crew ran away with the lifeboat. So we have to thank them ‘cause it meant that many actors they didn’t need to pay. Or show on camera, ever.
josh
									
And that lifeboat budget was gonna go through the roof if you had to see that other lifeboat! [All laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. Luckily, they’re able to reuse the first lifeboat for the second lifeboat when they shoot it so that—I guess—nobody can escape using it? But then they remember, oh yeah, there’s like a second, secret—like, a third secret lifeboat somewhere in the hold. We’ll get to that later.
elliott
									
And now I know what you’re thinking—“I wanna see Nic Cage get in that lifeboat with that white jaguar.” Guys? That movie already exists. It’s called Life of Pi. I think you’re gonna love it. Has a lot to say about the universe and our place in it. Continue, Stuart.
stuart
									
So Nicolas Cage storms off to find his white jag. Loffler kills the leader of the soldiers and a bunch of other soldiers. They’re basically all getting killed. Loffler manages to jump him. Beats him up. Ties him up. We see Michael Imperioli kills one of his own guys to save Loffler?!
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Huh?! Stuart: Wow! He is a traitor!
josh
									
He’s gonna bring him in alive!
stuart
									
This jaguar showed his spots! Right? [Multiple people laugh.] Is that a thing? [Laughs.]
dan
									
Based on what we find out later, I was a little unclear about Imperioli’s play here? ‘Cause like… it seemed like—from what we learn—and I’ll just spoil it that this guy used to work for the government. This bad guy. And—
elliott
									
Loffler.
dan
									
And then he went rogue and they’re just kind of trying to clean up their own mess, to some degree? Like it seems like they would just shoot him. But I guess he might have some information that they want or something. I don’t know.
josh
									
It—no, I’m with you. At the resolution—‘cause he’s—he’s so insistent. “We’ve gotta bring him in alive. I’m gonna kill one of my own men so I can bring this guy in alive.” And then at the end, he was like, “I have to bring him in alive!” And he was like, “Well I have compromising information on you.” And it’s like, “Well that’s a second reason to kill him!” There’s no reasons to not! I mean, other than just the goodness of humankind. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Imperioli is—they reveal that he is an NSA guy. He’s not this—he’s there under false pretenses. But yeah. It’s never clear what like—if the NSA just wants to clean up their own tracks, then killing Loffler right now would be the best thing for them to do.
josh
									
Absolutely! It’s such an excuse. ‘Cause if they had to put up the pretense of, “We’re bringing him in alive. We’re gonna give him a trial.” But really they were fearing that he would expose them and all the things they had him do, you’d be like, “Oh, I understand this tension.” But there was no tension. Like, everybody has the same motive, which is, “We hate this guy who’s murdering everyone on the boat.” [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
I really—it’s really disheartening to hear you guys talk about a human life like a number on a balance sheet right now. Y’know? [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
I mean, Imperioli shot the other guy, so someone was gonna die, Stuart. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
He slit his throat I think, right?
crosstalk
									
Dan and Josh: Yeah.
stuart
									
Up close and personal. Like he likes it.
elliott
									
Also, these are fictional characters. Uh— [Laughs.]
dan
									
[Laughs.] There’s that.
stuart
									
What?!
elliott
									
But it does feel—there’s something there that makes me think that there had to have been—
crosstalk
									
Elliott: —more going on with Michael Imperioli’s character, and then they just like… either— Josh: God. Is this… fictional… I’m sorry. Fictional characters—
josh
									
—is this the Christmas I find out Michael Imperioli isn’t real? [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Oh, I didn’t want you to find out this way! Uh, uh, your parents should have told you! [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
But he’s got a podcast now!
elliott
									
[Laughs.] Yeah, but the tequila! The tequila commercials! He—it’s—I wonder if it’s one of those cases of like, “We didn’t have him for as many days as we thought we had him for. And so the scene where he was gonna like do something we didn’t shoot.” ‘Cause it really feels like there’s a big chunk of movie missing that would explain why he wants him alive?
stuart
									
Yeah. There’s like three walk-and-talks they were planning on shooting and they just didn’t do.
josh
									
And the movie is very short. So that also tracks that way. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
Yeah. Or like—‘cause—I started—I’m like—is it gonna turn out that, like, he’s in love with him or something? Like, what possible reason would he have for keeping him alive? And it’s never—
crosstalk
									
Elliott: “Is he working with him?” Yeah! Yeah! And that— Josh: Or that they were gonna double-cross everybody else and escape like and do crime stuff together? But there was no— [Laughs.]
elliott
									
That never happens. They never try to do it. So it’s really… it feels like it’s just a matter of like… “We’ll figure it out. We’ll figure out why he’s doing these things when we get to that part. Oh, we didn’t figure it out. Uh, well, uh, the movie’s over. Goodbye!” [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.] And then they take all the money from the townspeople and they skip town to show Primal at another town— [Multiple people laugh.] —hoping that word hasn’t got ahead.
josh
									
Kind of on a Music Man-type grift.
crosstalk
									
Dan: Barnstorming grifters. Elliott: Yeah. The town’s having a town meeting and they’re like—
elliott
									
“We don’t have any movies to show!” “Well, well, folks! Have I got the solution to your problems! Hello there! The name’s Cage—Nicolas Cage! And I wanna tell you about a little movie called Primal! In it—” And there’s—
josh
									
[To the tune of “The Wells Fargo Wagon” from The Music Man] Well, the Cage movie wagon is a-comin’ down the street— [All laugh.]
elliott
									
[Singing to the tune of “Gary, Indiana” from The Music Man] Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana, does not support—that’s not where he’s from!
dan
									
That’s right. [Laughs.]
josh
									
No, but he was in the movie about the USS Indiana.
elliott
									
[Laughs.] That’s—yeah.
dan
									
Just use the Think System on the screenplay.
stuart
									
So yeah. We’re down to—y’know, we’re in the home stretch.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: We’re down to only a few characters left. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Elliott: Wait, Stu, one more! Wait, Stu, one more! Wait!
elliott
									
[Singing to the tune of “’Till There Was You” from The Music Man] There were cobras in his house but he neverrr heard them hissing… [Josh laughs.] —so they tried to kill him in his sleep… and he gave them away! Dunnnnn—yeah?
stuart
									
There’s a certain art to starting a sentence knowing you’re gonna get interrupted for another song. [Laughs.] [All laugh.] So we’re down to—
crosstalk
									
Stuart: —just a few characters— Elliott: [Still singing] There was a skull… from a rex… but it turns out it was stolen… so he had to send it back… to Mongolia! [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
So these songs are now about the real Nicolas Cage, not the—
elliott
									
The real Nicolas Cage. [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
—character in the movie.
elliott
									
[Still singing] And he was planning… to be buried in New Orleans… in some kind of pyramid… [Josh laughs.] —like that. [Regular voice] Anyway.
stuart
									
Yeah. So we got the Doc. We got Nicolas Cage. [Elliott laughs.] We got Raffy—that’s the name of the son of the captain.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: The captain’s still clinging to life, despite the fact that his body is burning up with Bushmaster venom. Elliott: Yeah. Famous kid’s musician, Raffy. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
Yeah. This is the thing. They like make a big deal about how he’s dead already? And then like… he— [Laughs.] He hangs on through the movie for reasons that are never really explained.
elliott
									
He has the best-case scenario, which is like, everyone else is running around chasing this murderer or being chased and he just gets to sit back and just be in a snake-venom coma and then gets off the ship and he’s fine. Y’know.
stuart
									
Yeah. They’re like, “No, don’t worry about the killer. Focus on getting well.” [All laugh.]
josh
									
That’s kind of a GOOP thing, right? You go through a tough day in a snake venom coma, you get revived, all the toxins are out.
stuart
									
Uh-huh. Stick a magic egg up your butt and then you’re healed. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Is that what they say in GOOP? ‘Cause if you stick an egg up your butt it will turn to goop. It’ll probably crack. Y’know. [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
Yup. So they find the spare lifeboat. They toss it over the side. They’re like, “We’re gonna get free!” And then Loffler shows up. They get the gun battle. The special raft gets shot. They use the shipping containers to kind of evade Loffler and then Nicolas Cage goes down, grabs a fucking compound bow, and he’s like, “I’m gonna go hunting.” And he uses Famke Janssen as bait. And you’re like, “Hell, yeah, this movie’s gonna get awesome.” Does not stay awesome for very long because we almost immediately get into a standoff where Frank has Famke Janssen in a—Frank—Frank’s Nicolas Cage. I just fucked that all up. [Multiple people laugh.] So many names! And my notes are so poorly written! Loffler manages to get Famke Janssen—
elliott
									
You’re doing great, Stu. You’re doing great. We’re all flawed.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: None of us are perfect. Stuart: Thank you.
elliott
									
You’re doing great, yeah.
stuart
									
Loffler has Famke Janssen. He has his machine gun. He’s got it like—machine gun up to her head, but he’s holding it kind of awkward and you’re like, “Really? Is that gonna work? I dunno.” [Elliott laughs.] Nicolas Cage has him dead to right with his compound bow. He’s got it pulled back and you’re like, “Oh, man. This is gonna be awesome.” But before he can shoot him, Michael Imperioli shows up and we have this three-way standoff where everyone’s shouting. There’s a lot of talking. Of course everybody starts getting shot. Michael Imperioli gets killed. Nicolas Cage gets shot. Loffler gets shot. Famke Janssen? Not shot. She survives. [Dan laughs.]
dan
									
Now I—this scene—I wanna—now I wanna take issue with—let’s call it the “premise” of this movie. [Josh laughs.] Which is, I—no, I think that the movie’s leading up to this moment where it’s supposed to be like, “Okay, well, Nicolas Cage is this expert hunter. And now he is going to hunt this bad guy.”
crosstalk
									
Dan: Like, he’s gonna use—yeah! Elliott: The most dangerous game!
dan
									
—his special abilities as a hunter. And part of the problem is, number one, as we’ve said before, he’s not shown to be that great a hunter at the beginning of the movie? Like, the first time we see him he’s kind of fucking up? But number two, like… his big hunting plan at this point is like, “Okay. Famke. You’re bait. Go downstairs and make a lot of noise.” [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.] And like the bad guy immediately—like, when he captures her, he’s like, “Okay, well, clearly you were [through laughter] divergent.” Like, he knows what it is. It is the simplest plan. So.
josh
									
But this play was all for what happens later, right?
dan
									
Yeah. I mean, later on, he’s more of a cool hunter dude. But. Not now.
stuart
									
Yeah. Keep it simple, Stu—stupid. That’s— [Laughs.] I almost said, “Keep it simple, Stuart,” which is what I tell myself— [Multiple people laugh.] —every morning.
dan
									
“Keep it Stuart, simple.” [All laugh.]
stuart
									
“Oh no, I messed it up!” Uh, okay. So. Uh… we—after the standoff, Loffler manages to tie the doctor and the kid up? And he leaves them with a little friend. That’s right—the Bushmaster from before! Hell yeah! Oh man, this guy’s so tough! You gotta watch out ‘cause that venom will kill you over the course of an entire movie. Maybe. [All laugh.] Frank and Loffler get—
elliott
									
It feels like the Bushmaster forgot to get a poison refill before he left the house that day? And he’s just like, “I gotta make a big show of this. People are counting on me. Uh… play with me! Play with me!”
stuart
									
And that’s the thing about the Bushmaster is that they’re normally capable of multiple venomous bites in a row. So you would know—like, normally, you’re like, “He’s got plenty of venom in his thing! I can’t see—obviously, he doesn’t have like a little meter above his head showing these venom reserves. That would be crazy.” [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Or a video game that I’d play. That’s what—that’s— [Laughs.] Josh: “He’s heating up! He’s on venom! Boom! Snake lock.” [All laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. That’s when they put Bane in NBA Jam? It’s NBA Jam, right?
josh
									
It is NBA Jam.
stuart
									
Cool.
elliott
									
The other thing—there’s just like so many little things in the movie where like, just say he’ll be dead in a day without antivenom. Not 20 minutes. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] Then it makes sense that he’s alive in a day!
dan
									
Yeah.
stuart
									
Well maybe he said 20 minutes so every extra day he feels—like, the guy’s like, “Aw, man. I got so much more time—I’m so much better at surviving this than I thought!”
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Like, “I’m a super—” Josh: That’s more of a miracle of Jean-Claude Van Damme than Cagemas. Elliott: Yeah. I mean— Dan: Or just like—
dan
									
Pick a less-venomous snake, if this is your ploy! We’ll still be worried for the guy if he doesn’t have any antivenom.
josh
									
Right. Just all those little things of like, “Wait a minute. Why don’t you—either both of you turn on Michael Imperioli or both of you turn on Loffler. Just like… you have common interests! Why is this a three-way standoff?” [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
Well there’s also a scene later on where the kid has—or I think we actually went past it. The standoff at the top of the boat where—the deck, is what it’s called. [Josh laughs.] Amongst sailors.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Yeah, yeah. Where they— Stuart: The roof?
dan
									
There’s a shoot-off on the deck where like the kid has so much time to run away [through laughter] and he just sorta stands around.
stuart
									
Yeah. Uh-huh.
elliott
									
Similarly there’s a scene that we’ve gone past where Loffler calls into the Coast Guard pretending to be a US Marshall, and calling in for a helicopter and some food? And they’re like, “We’ll be there in one hour!” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s the ticking clock! They’ve got one hour to stop him before he escapes!” Never comes up again! [Stuart laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: No. Yeah. Elliott: It’s so—like, it’s not—not an issue! Not something they needed to have in there! Dan: Yeah.
stuart
									
Doesn’t speak well to the Coast Guard’s ability to deliver within an hour, right? [Elliott laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Elliott: [Through laughter] Very true! Dan: Yeah. And this is definitely—this is definitely one of those— Josh: You get the MedEvac for free if they take more than an hour. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
Wow. And those are expensive. No, this is definitely a—one of those action movies, too, where the villain shoots or allows people to live at the whims of the screenplay. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart and Josh: Yeah.
elliott
									
The—I think that the walkie-talkie thing, where he’s talking to the Coast Guard, I realize now it’s there to pay off. Early on he says to the US Marshall, “Oh, you’re from Virginia but you grew up in this place and that’s why your accent sounds like that?” And I guess he’s supposed to be, like, mimicking his accent over the call? But it just sounds like his regular voice? And it’s like, I don’t buy him as a Hannibal Lecter-level chameleon. Y’know.
dan
									
He just sounds kind of friendlier. [Elliott laughs.]
josh
									
Over a radio? The Coast Guard is gonna be like, “Wait a minute!” [Elliott laughs.] “This isn’t a Virginia accent!”
stuart
									
“I’m looking at your Facebook page and it says that you grew up in Virginia but you don’t sound like a Virginian!”
dan
									
Yeah. “I called up a YouTube thing—one of those ones where someone explains a bunch of accents? And this doesn’t sound like Virginia.”
stuart
									
“See, I was catfished this one time, and ever since I’ve been extra-careful.” [All laugh.]
josh
									
“Fool me once… [through laughter] shame on me. Or shame on you.”
stuart
									
So— yeah. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.] So we have our big climax. That’s right. We’re back in Nicolas Cage’s menagerie room. Filled with empty cages and a couple of tapirs and monkeys.
josh
									
The ironic thing is, I’m sure at Nic Cage’s house he does have a menagerie room.
stuart
									
I’m sure he does. So he’s running around shooting Loffler with blowgun darts. He manages to get a couple of ‘em in him before they both whip out knives and we have a knife fight. It’s looking tight, but eventually the poison manages to whittle down Loffler, who gets his ankle stuck in a noose and then he gets hauled up and then left to be a meal for a white jag, who shows up and is like, “Thanks for the handoff, dude!” And then he gives Nicolas Cage a high-five—
elliott
									
“Tag in! Tag in! Tag me in!” [Laughs.]
dan
									
I do wanna say—I don’t—I mean, it’s hard—this movie is shot very dimly—
crosstalk
									
Dan: —a lot— Elliott: Beautifully. Oh. Stuart: Well? Josh: Yeah.
dan
									
And so it’s hard to tell what’s a stuntman? But when I do see Nicolas Cage’s face I’m like, “Oh yeah, not bad! Not bad, Nic Cage. You’re still—” I mean, like, he’s 56 years old! He’s not in his prime Con Air shape but he’s doing well.
elliott
									
There’s a—one of the earlier fights between him and Loffler, Loffler’s about to shoot him and Nic Cage jumps up and slaps the gun out of the way and like launches himself? And that one moment, I was like, “That was a really—” Like, I was impressed by that move. I was like, the speed and the aim and that move. But his—
josh
									
The director was the guy who was a stunt director and coordinator, I think, previously. And so I was like, “Oh, this checks out. Yeah.”
elliott
									
Something I wanna mention about the jaguar, ‘cause this is our last opportunity. Every now and then you get to see a little bit of jaguar vision. And— [Multiple people laugh.] It is like blurry and—it’s like fisheye and black-and-white. And I’m like, “So the ultimate hunter in the jungle sees worse than I do?” [Multiple people laugh.] “A man who needs glasses? Like, this is ridiculous!”
josh
									
Yeah. It was—that ploy at the end to get him into the loop, like you could—he was really telegraphing it. Like, it was borderline like, “A little to the left…” [Multiple people laugh.] And then I turned and said to my wife, who graciously watched this movie with me, I said, “Y’know, in screenwriting sometimes you save the cat and sometimes the cat saves you.” And again—
crosstalk
									
Josh: A joke for no one to enjoy. Yeah. Dan: She walked out of the room. [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
I had to say it out loud so it didn’t poison my brain. [All laugh.]
stuart
									
Luckily you saved it for the podcast! So Frank has saved the day— [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
You diffused that poison out among multiple people so that it’s not dangerous, it’s just irritating.
stuart
									
It’s—yeah, Ringu style.
josh
									
It’s more of a Primal Bushmaster-level venom. [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
So Nicolas Cage has saved the day. A bunch of guys show up. They’re like, “Oh, cool! Well, you can leave with all your treasured animals as long as we see your paperwork.” And he’s like, “Uhhh…” And then Famke Janssen shows up and was like, “Uh, Loffler burned [through laughter] his paperwork.” [Dan laughs.] Which is awesome. What an awesome lie. Great. [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
[Through laughter] So good!
stuart
									
Encouraging this fucking poacher. Well done.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: And he’s like, “Oh, man!” Josh: [Through laughter] It also—
stuart
									
“Maybe we’re gonna get married or something? I dunno.” Like, doesn’t he talk about how he’s like, “Oh, maybe I’m gonna go to the same place she’s at—"
crosstalk
									
Stuart: “So we can start this dating in earnest!” Josh: Yeah. Dan: Yeah. He’s—he talks to the parrot about it. Elliott: Yeah. Well she—she gives him—
elliott
									
And she gives him her number in Adelphi in case he’s ever around there and he says to his parrot, he’s like, “They’ve got a zoo in Adelphi!” Because we learned earlier he worked at what, eight zoos in ten years?
josh
									
Eight zoos in ten years. That’s so funny. [Stuart laughs.] Such a funny detail. And she’s like, “You have a problem with authority, huh? Eight zoos in ten years?” [Laughs.]
elliott
									
I want to see so badly the prequel to Primal that’s got, like, Primal beginnings where it’s just him as the shittiest zoo employee? [Multiple people laugh.] Who’s like, always getting his boss mad at him? Like he just can’t remember to close the door on the gorilla cage or something and they get out, like—
josh
									
I don’t really—in what world do you even get hired at zoo number six— [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Josh: —after five years? Is it just like with like priests—it’s like— Dan: Yes! I do not think this is a profession where they keep giving you chances. [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]
josh
									
It’s like priests and cops where you just like kill an endangered animal or you kill a fucking iguana and then they just move you to another parish? [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
“Transfer him to San Diego. Anything goes over there. Yeah, yeah.” [All laugh.]
stuart
									
“Okay, Nicolas Cage! You’re gonna have to turn out your pockets. Yeah, no. I see the ZooBooks stuffed in your pockets.” [All laugh.] “No, those are not—you didn’t bring those from home. I know you stole them.”
dan
									
“I see the cockatoos stuffed in your—"
elliott
									
So he’s doing the interview, Stu? You’re saying its his job interview and he’s cheating off of a ZooBook that’s stuffed in his pocket?
stuart
									
I was just saying that he worked in the gift shop at the zoo. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
Oh, I see, I see. He’s just stealing copies of the magazine ZooBook.
josh
									
But he’s like a badass zoo employee? He’s like, “Y’know, I’ve met Ranger Rick. He’s a fucking animal.” [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
I mean, yeah, he’s a raccoon, right? [Laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Josh: Yeah. [Laughs.] Yeah, but like, he’s a savage. Dan: He is a raccoon. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
I wanna say, this ending, too, is what I referred to before. Where they make a slight stab at making you think, “Oh, this poacher isn’t so bad ‘cause he’s like, ‘Oh, I’m gonna take this cat to a reserve for endangered animals. I’m not gonna sell it to a zoo for big money.’” And you’re like, “Okay, great. I guess you’re wonderful now.” [Laughs.] [Elliott laughs.]
josh
									
“You’re not gonna have your… you’re not gonna get your house to show up your dad!”
dan
									
[Through laughter] Yeah! [Stuart laughs.] [Through laughter] I mean, I’m glad he had his change of heart, but it does seem like just an afterthought of the movie. Like, “Uh, okay, and he’s… not—not bad. He’s okay.” [Laughs.]
elliott
									
Wait. Did we talk about that? I forget. About how his motivation behind buying a house is so his dad can come over and not use his fishing boat? [Josh laughs.] And he can just show him how great his life is?
stuart
									
I get it.
elliott
									
And make his dad mad about it? [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. I get it. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: [Inaudible], man. Josh: It rules.
josh
									
It’s so funny. He—like—his whole thing is to spite his father. [Dan laughs.] Like, there’s all these threads— [Elliott laughs.] —there’s like a bunch of balls that they throw in the air and then don’t even try to catch? They’re just like, “Hey, check out how many balls we threw! That’s pretty cool, right?” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
He’s a super badass—he’s a super badass hunter who has serious daddy issues and cannot hold a job at a zoo. He’s just like got a lot going for him!
dan
									
He has a parrot that follows him around. It’s not his parrot until the end of the movie, where he names him.
josh
									
They’re kind of frenemies. [Elliott laughs.] And then Famke Janssen’s character like—
elliott
									
“Is that your parrot, Frank?” “No, he’s kind of a frenemy of mine.” [All laugh.]
josh
									
“Uh, we went to college together. We hang out when he’s in town.” [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
									
“But I don’t even know why. I mean, like, he’ll be in town—get this. He’ll be in town. He’ll call me to hang out on the last night when he’s about to leave? And he’s like, ‘Hey, hey, could I stay at your place?’ And it’s like, you weren’t gonna get in touch with me until the place you were staying fell through, were you? But I let him, ‘cause, y’know, we’ve got those memories. Y’know.”
stuart
									
“And we went out to dinner and like the check came and I’m like, ‘I dunno, 50/50’s fine, right?’ Like, I guess. But he doesn’t even reach for that thing. He just lets me pick it up every time.”
elliott
									
“That parrot—we go out for tapas, our group of friends, and he just put down like eight bucks and be like ‘I gotta run. This should cover me.’ And we’d each have to pay like sixty dollars!”
crosstalk
									
Elliott: “And nothing came down to my end of the table.” Josh: “I didn’t have any drinks.” Oh, yeah. Like that makes up for it. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
I’ve come to enjoy tapas as I’ve made my way in the world, and now can go out for tapas on occasion? But man. That—when I was young, what a bad idea for a group of [through laughter] friends to go out for tapas.
elliott
									
Yeah! It’s terrible! Well I mean it’s essentially a scam. Where they’re like, “Here’s your dinner. It is four tiny pieces of something and that will be $75—"
crosstalk
									
Elliott: “—and you are still hungry!” [Laughs.] Stuart: “But there’s—but there’s five of us!”
josh
									
Have you ever been to a place where you don’t know that it’s tapas? You’re like, “Oh, this place looks good! The menu looks good! All the food is a regular price!” [Laughs.] And then it comes and it’s like—you’re like, “Is this a prank?!” [All laugh.]
elliott
									
That was—I remember visiting friends in Portland and they were like, “We gotta go to this restaurant. It’s great. We’ll go for brunch.” And I’m like, “I could really go for a big brunch. Love it. What’ll I have?” And we sit down and they’re like—and the waitress says, “Now, we are a small plates, family-style sharing restaurant—” And I almost walked out of the restaurant I was so mad. [Multiple people laugh.] I felt like I had been brought there under such false pretenses. [Laughs.]
stuart
									
This is some quality, like, ‘90s CBS-style jokes here, guys. [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
[Through laughter] I still am mad about it. I’m as mad about it as Paul Reiser was mad about it on Mad About You, I imagine. [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Mad About Food. Elliott: No, no, but that was a different kind of mad!
josh
									
I’m crazy for tapas! [Elliott laughs.] Small plates and family style always go together. And it’s like, “What is this, a Great Depression-themed restaurant?” [Multiple people laugh.] “There’s only a little bit of food and we all have to share it!”
elliott
									
“Look guys. We’ve gotta—this is gonna cost us a lot of money and we’ve gotta stretch it. We’ve gotta make it last. So nobody be greedy.” Now what if Mad About You was originally called Mad At You— [Josh laughs.] —and it was about a couple that needed a divorce but they refused to divorce ‘cause their apartment was so great? And then CBS was like, “We love it. We were wondering if the couple could be in love still.” And Paul Reiser’s like, “How am I gonna make this work? How could I possibly make this work?”
dan
									
I mean, you watch that show—they’re barely in love. [All laugh.] Those characters.
josh
									
That would’ve been a good name for it. Barely in Love.
crosstalk
									
Dan and Elliott: Barely in Love.
stuart
									
People woulda thought it starred bears.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: So let’s close the book on this guy. Dan: So I think we—yeah. Let’s do our Final Judgments— Elliott: It’s a movie.
dan
									
—about whether this is a good-bad movie, a bad-bad movie, a movie we kinda liked. This—y’know, as always, barely fits into any of these categories. [Multiple people laugh.] Like I was watching and I was, y’know, Audrey got bored pretty quickly and then she was like, “This is bad-bad, right?” And then she’s like, “Or did I not pay enough attention to it?” And I’m like, “Well, the fact that you stopped paying attention to it indicates that yes, it is boring in a lot of ways. But you probably would enjoy it more if you like engaged with it.” Like there’s stuff in it that I liked. I liked Nicolas Cage. I liked the villain. Famke Janssen doesn’t get a whole lot to do? But she’s—I like her as a presence in movies and she felt like nice and competent. Like she just exuded competence and I—and whenever it went big, it was kinda fun. But so much of this movie just like… does not engage with what makes the premise fun. The premise is fun ‘cause there’s a bunch of these animals loose on this damn ship. And that feels like an afterthought. Like most of it is just like walking through like warehouse, like… the hold of the ship with guns. Y’know. And it’s poorly lit. Poorly shot. So y’know sometimes I kinda liked it, sometimes I thought it was just bad. What do you guys have to say?
stuart
									
Yeah. I’m with ya, Dan. I would say—I dunno. I think this is a movie I actually kinda liked. It’s like dumb in a way that I enjoy. It is—as Josh said—it throws a bunch of balls in the air. It does not really care if they catch any of them. It’s—like, the action scenes are not particularly thrilling, but it was like, I dunno. It was dumb in exactly the way I want a movie I watch for The Flop House to be. And yeah. The actors were fun to watch kind-of act in the movie? Yeah! Thumbs up.
elliott
									
Yeah. It’s— [Laughs.] It’s like a thumbs-sideways movie. [Josh laughs.] It’s like not—it feels really like… y’know—like we’ve said it before. I’m sick. I’m lying on the couch. It’s a Saturday afternoon. This is available. Okay. Sure. This’ll be fine. It like is never quite what Stolen is? Y’know? But it’s kind of like Stolen.
dan
									
Yeah. It’s one of those movies that’s sort of fun but you won’t be mad if you fall asleep. [Laughs.]
josh
									
For sure! [Elliott laughs.] That’s the perfect way to—it’s like, however much of the movie you watch, you’ll enjoy that much. It’s like a continental breakfast movie. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
I mean, I think it’s a better movie if you fall asleep for a certain amount of it ‘cause it’s like a repetitive movie where—like you said, Dan, it doesn’t live up to the premise of “They’re trapped on a ship with a killer and a bunch of killer animals.” So it’s kind of like—if you watch the beginning of it and then fell asleep and dreamed most of the movie and then woke up for the very end? You’d probably have a pretty positive experience. You’d have a better story. Yeah.
josh
									
I don’t think it was a bad-bad movie because there was—at no point was I like… like, mad that I was watching it? It’s 97 minutes. There’s like enough fun stuff where I’m like, “Ah, they tease that the snakes were there and then the snake’s great. He’s got a bow and shoots the guy through the shoulder and the bow and he pushes the arrow through his shoulder—” It’s like—just like—I—I—so I don’t—but I also don’t think it’s good. Like, good-bad movie in that it’s not tight. It doesn’t pay off the stuff you want it ot pay off. The Michael Imperioli stuff, the parrot saying—talking about the gun doesn’t pay off in a very satisfying way. But I do think—my dad has a phrase for a movie like this where he describes it as having—I texted this to him immediately after I finished. I said, “Have you seen Primal with Nicolas Cage? It’s got a lot of good beatin’-up.” [Multiple people laugh.] And it felt very ‘90s. Like it felt like, here’s the premise. We’re just gonna more or less do that for 90 minutes, and then you’re gonna go home and you’re gonna forget whether it was this one or that one that the monkeys ate the cook.
dan
									
I do think that there is something to—it might just be pure nostalgia of like us all being the same sort of general generation. Like… these sorts of action movies were more of a part of our youth? And now, y’know, like anything that isn’t a big blockbuster does get sort of shunted off like this film did. And so I do think that yeah. I am more apt to be gentle on a movie like this, too, because I’m like, “Oh, y’know. Like a basic action movie. With a premise but not a lot of bells and whistles.”
elliott
									
Yeah! I like that kind of thing and I’m happy—I think it was—it did a good enough job where that it wasn’t like super—it wasn’t perfectly executed but also I didn’t feel like I was being insulted watching it? Where they were just like, “Look, some idiot’s gonna watch this on a plane and that’s how we make the money.” Or like whatever. I—so I will say I kinda liked it. Dan, like you said—a nostalgia for those Seagal/Van Damme/Cage movies of like the mid-’90s.
stuart
									
And basically no animals got killed in the movie, right?
dan
									
[Through laughter] Basically.
josh
									
Those two parrots, right?
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Elliott: Yeah. I mean, Loeffler does shoot two parrots point-blank, but.
josh
									
The least—I think they chose that specifically, right? ‘Cause they couldn’t kill the snakes for plot reasons and they’re like, “We can’t kill a mammal! That’s fucked up!” [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
“People won’t stand for it!”
dan
									
Yeah.
elliott
									
Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.
promo
									
Music: Upbeat, cheerful music. Dave Hill: Hi, it’s me, Dave Hill—from before—here to tell you about my brand-new show on Maximum Fun, The Dave Hill Goodtime Hour, which combines my old Maximum Fun show—Dave Hill’s Podcasting Incident—with my old radio show—The [Censored] Damn Hill Show—into one new futuristic program from the future. If you like delightful conversation with incredible guests, technical difficulties, and actual phone calls from real life listeners, you’ve just hit a street called Easy. I’m also joined by my incredible cohost, the boy criminal Chris Gersbeck. Say hi, Chris. Chris Gersbeck: Hey, Dave. It’s really great to— Dave: [Interrupting.] That’s enough, Chris. And New Jersey chicken rancher, Dez. Say hi, Dez. Dez: Hey, Dave! [A chicken bawks.] Dave: The Dave Hill Goodtime Hour—brand-new episodes every Friday on Maximum Fun. Chris: Plus, the show’s not even an hour. It’s 90 minutes. Dez: Take that, stupid rules. Dave: We nailed it! [Music ends in a drumroll.]
promo
									
Music: Upbeat, fun music. Emily Heller: Does our podcast deep-dive into the weirdest Wikipedia pages we can find? Lisa Hanawalt: Yeees! Do we learn about scam artists, remote islands, horrible mascots, beautiful diseases, and mythical monsters? Emily: Yes, yes, yes, absolutely, and yes! Do we retain any of this knowledge? Emily & Lisa: Eeeeh? Lisa: Probably not. Emily: I’m Emily Heller. Lisa: I’m Lisa Hanawalt. Emily: We make art! And comedy. And TV shows. And also the podcast Baby Geniuses. For the past eight years, we’ve been trying to learn new things about the world and each other every episode. Lisa: But let’s be honest, this podcast is mostly about two friends hanging out, shooting the breeze, and making each other laugh. We’re horny. We like gardening and horses. And we get real stupid on here. Emily: But, like, in a smart way! Lisa: Yeah. Emily: Join us! Every other week on Maximum Fun. Music: Baby Geniuses, tell us something we don’t know! [Music ends.]
dan
									
I think we have a couple of Jumbotrons this week.
stuart
									
[Deep, gravelly voice] Jumbotronnnn!
crosstalk
									
Elliott: The biggest of trons. Dan: Uh, Stuart, why don’t you kick us off? Stuart: [In announcer voice] J-J-J-Jumbotrons!
stuart
									
Of course, Dan! I would love to. Let me do this. [Dan laughs.] Oh, I know why this one was given to me! “Anime has invaded our world. Goku is a household name—but most parents don’t know that he started out in the Japanese comics anthology magazine Weekly Shonen Jump. But for every Dragon Ball Z, there’s a series that died in obscurity. Why? On each episode of the podcast, Shonen Flop, David and Jordan read a cancelled jump series and determine if it was a forgotten gem or if it was really, truly a flop. Please do not sue us over the title. So subscribe to Shonen Flop on your podcast app of choice and follow our Twitter, @ShonenFlopcast.” [In singsong voice] Wow. You gave it to me because I’m the ultimate otakuuu! [Elliott laughs.]
elliott
									
That’s what they call him! Ultimate Otaku. I have a Jumbotron, too, so maybe this is the same kind of niche nerd excitement.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Let’s go! Okay. Stuart: We’ll find out!
elliott
									
So. “If you’d rather buy from local businesses than corporate websites, Sook lets you do it with one click. A free shopping assistant for Chrome, Sook makes it easy to browse and buy from the best small businesses in your community. Whether you’re looking for clothing, home décor, kids’ gear, or more, Sook makes it easy, convenient, and affordable to spend your money where you live. Sook is free for small businesses and the communities that love them. Know a small business we should add? Just email us! So go download Sook—that’s S-O-O-K—for free from the Chrome store. That’s S-O-O-K from the Chrome store.”
dan
									
And I think, Elliott, you had a quick plug that you wanted to do?
elliott
									
I did! So I have a comic book series coming out next year from AfterShock Comics. It’s called Maniac of New York and it is available for preorder now! So call up your local comic book store. Say, “Hey, I wanna get Maniac of New York.” It’s kind of a take about a masked killer who is running loose in Manhattan—taking Manhattan, if you will. It’s a completely original idea based on nothing. [Dan laughs.] And it is by me and the great artist Andrea Mutti, who you may know from Hellblazer, among other things. I’m very excited about it. Comes out next year from Aftershock Comics. Maniac of New York. Preorder it nowwww!
stuart
									
And is it—is it inspired or related in any way to the short comic we did when we did our batch of charity comics that are available on our website?
elliott
									
Yes.
stuart
									
Great.
elliott
									
That’s a good point. If you wanna get kind of a sneak peek of it, there is a comic book of the same name in our—available on our Flop House website. You can buy it now and all the money goes to charity. And that was kind of a… demo run. You might say. For this. That was kind of like me brainstorming ideas that I am then using in a greater narrative sense in this one. So yeah! Good call, Stuart! If you want a sneak peek, just go do that and all that money will go to a good cause!
stuart
									
Yeah! If you’re a sneak peek freak. [Elliott laughs.]
dan
									
Let us move on to Letters from Listeners. Like you. Anyway. [Through laughter] This first one is from— [Josh laughs.] What?
elliott
									
Uh, you seemed like you were opening that up for—what you said had a lot of like, closure to it? And then suddenly you opened it up in a way that made me ask questions about what was going on in this situation. And—
crosstalk
									
Dan: Yeah. Well I mean— [Laughs.] Elliott: It became ambiguous. It was very concrete and became ambiguous.
dan
									
If you’re listening, y’know, you don’t know—maybe this was your letter! Until you hear it, it’s like a Schrödinger’s Letter.
elliott
									
Schrödinger’s Letter. Well, Schrödinger’s Letter was, “Dear Petco, I’m not sure if my cat is alive or dead.” [Multiple people laugh.] “How do I find out?”
josh
									
And Petco’s like, “Dude, this is not on us.” [Elliott laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Does Schrödinger’s—is— Elliott: “I want a refund or maybe I don’t? It depends on what happens when I open the box.”
stuart
									
Does Schrödinger have really nice handwriting? Because he’s a really good pianist, right?
elliott
									
Yeah. Yeah. [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Josh: Well he’s always practicing. We don’t know how good he is. Elliott: He loves Beethoven. Dan: I actually—I was in the process of thinking—
dan
									
“Is there a Schroeder joke here?” And I had decided there wasn’t. So I’m glad that you jumped in. [Josh laughs.] So this letter is from Trevor—not Noah—last name withheld. Which only makes me think it’s Trevor.
stuart
									
It’s more likely. Yeah.
crosstalk
									
Dan: Yeah. More likely. Elliott: Possibly. Yeah.
elliott
									
Does he refer to you as Employee Dan? [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
You should read it in his accent, Dan. [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
Just in case it’s him. [All laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Dan: It is impossible—it is impossible to do a South African accent. Elliott: It would be insulting not to, Dan!
dan
									
It is… so hard.
stuart
									
Yeah. No one’s ever done one.
dan
									
Um… so. This—yeah. From Trevor, not Noah, last name withheld. “Hey, Peaches! I’m a big fan of The Flop House but my wife has only heard bits and pieces, usually while riding in the car together. We had just finished watching a TV show and out of nowhere she looked over at me and said, ‘Bow! Ma-mow!’ I thought maybe this had something to do with our cat, who was sitting nearby, but when I didn’t respond she stared at me and smiled.” [Multiple people laugh.] “’Um… um, okay,’ I said, not sure what she was expecting. Louder this time. ‘Bow! Ma-mow!’ You know! Like the cat!” I thought about the thousands of cats I know, both real and fictional.” [All laugh.] “But I never thought she would bring up your show. ‘From The Flop House,’ she said. She was very excited to use a reference to something I liked. ‘Oh,’ I responded. ‘No, it’s ‘ra-row.’’ But she was not deterred.”
crosstalk
									
Stuart: I like hers better. [Laughs.] [All laugh.] Dan: “I told her I would write—” Yeah.
dan
									
“I told her I would write this email and she hasn’t stopped misquoting the beloved housecat ever since. There’s no deep philosophical question here. I thought you guys might enjoy knowing there’s some force of the population that is acquainted with your podcast, even if they don’t know the details. Thanks for keeping me sane in 2020. Trevor.”
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Okay. So I think— Dan: What a delightful story.
stuart
									
I think there’s a 50/50 chance they were either watching Blue Bloods or MasterChef Junior.
dan
									
Why do you— [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Elliott: I mean, are you—are—are—are we betting on this? Are you asking us— Dan: I want you—show your work on this one. [Stuart laughs.] Stuart: Yes!
elliott
									
Are we supposed to take that action?
stuart
									
I need to see Elliott pull some money out. I need proof that you’re actually good for it. [Elliott laughs.]
dan
									
Okay. Well, alright. Let’s go roundtable. Say what show we think that they’re watching and if any of us gets it right, this letter writer must write in. So you’re saying either Blue Bloods or—what was the other one?
stuart
									
MasterChef Junior, obviously.
josh
									
Was there a cat on the show? I just got totally derailed by how he knows thousands of cats. [All laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: I don’t think they specified. Dan: We he saw The Brett Gelman Show, so [through laughter] that’s why he— [Multiple people laugh.] Josh: Yeah. Elliott: Yep.
dan
									
That’s a joke for only the people here. Um—
elliott
									
I’m sure there’s somebody else who has been to the UCB Theatre at some point in the early 2000s who might’ve seen that show.
dan
									
[Laughs.] I’m gonna say they were watching The Repair Shop, which is a very comforting show on Netflix. Anyone else?
elliott
									
I’m gonna say it was either… Young Sheldon.
stuart
									
Oh wow.
elliott
									
Or Dark.
stuart
									
Oh wow.
elliott
									
They’re kind of the same show.
stuart
									
Yup. [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
Josh, do you have a guess here?
josh
									
I feel like they said… he said “watching TV” but I think on TV they were watching the movie Inside Llewyn Davis. [All laugh.]
dan
									
Wow.
elliott
									
There is a cat in it! Alright.
josh
									
A famous cat-featuring film.
dan
									
There are a couple of cats.
elliott
									
Now I’m just excited because this means we have reached that legendary status where people are regularly misquoting us and thinking that they’re quoting us? Our show? Like, that’s our “Play it again, Sam,” y’know?
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Is “Bow ma-mow!” Stuart: Is that—is that from Cheers?
elliott
									
That’s from Cheers, yeah. [Multiple people laugh.] The episode where he brought in his sousaphone and he just—
crosstalk
									
Elliott: He wouldn’t stop. Josh: They were trying to get him to return to baseball. [Through laughter] They were like, “Oh, play it again, Sam!” [Stuart laughs.]
elliott
									
The—that like, someday in the future, someone’s gonna go—there’s gonna be some Buzzfeed article that’s like, “’Bow ma-mow’? Here’s what they were actually saying on The Flop House!”
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Yeah. Dan: Mm.
josh
									
It’s a real Mandela Effect. [Dan laughs.]
elliott
									
Yeah. Oh let me—I was—followers of my Twitter account will know that I have a beef about this. Which is that I think it’s real unfair that Nelson Mandela—a global hero of freedom—that his name got put on the effect that is basically just people being like, “Nuh-uh!” [Josh laughs.]
josh
									
“The Mandela Effect? Do you mean ‘Bringing liberation to a people—an oppressed people in a nation against all odds?” “No, no, no, no, no, no, no.”
elliott
									
No, no. “It’s showing incredible resilience and endurance for decades until finally the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice?” “No, no, no. It’s about thinking that it’s Berensteen bears.” [All laugh.] So I wanna—I’m trying to create a movement so that the Mandela Effect becomes the name for when you get superhuman strength to lift a car off of a child that’s been pinned under it? Let’s see if it works out. Everybody, that’s the Mandela Effect now.
dan
									
Okay. Well—
elliott
									
And the other one is the Babaloo Mandel Effect. When you remember something wrong— [Dan laughs.] —that’s now named after Babaloo Mandel, writer of Gung-Ho, among other movies.
dan
									
Who—who’s the other member of that team?
dan
									
Dan and Elliott: Lowell Ganz.
dan
									
Yeah. Okay.
elliott
									
Ganz and Mandel. Yeah. [Dan laughs.]
dan
									
Funniest— [Laughs.] Funniest names in comedy writing teams.
crosstalk
									
Dan: Lowell Ganz and Babaloo Mandel. Elliott: I think they—
elliott
									
I think they got the jobs off the names. Yeah. [Laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Babaloo Mandel sounds like a— Josh: That was their packet.
stuart
									
—something that Dennis Miller would’ve said a lot in the ‘80s. [Elliott laughs.]
josh
									
Yeah!
dan
									
[Dennis Miller impression] “This guy makes Lowell Ganz look like Babaloo Mandell.” [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
Oh, that’s pretty good!
elliott
									
And someone’s like, “Dennis, they work together. They’re not that different.” “Oh, uh…”
dan
									
[Laughs.] So this next and final letter is from Heather, last name withheld. And Heather writes, “How do you all have such nice teeth? Are they natural? Thanks, Heather.” [Multiple people laugh.] I can only answer for myself. I had braces. [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Dan: For years as a child. Elliott: Answer for me, Dan.
dan
									
I probably didn’t wear my retainer as much as I should, so they’re drifting a little back crooked as I age. But that’s my story. What about you guys?
elliott
									
Uh, my story is very exciting and different. I also had braces. And my teeth are also drifting back. And on my bottom jaw, one of the teeth—it’s drifting, but you can only feel it from the back. If you look from the front, I don’t think you can tell. So that’s the little secret I have is that my tongue is constantly caressing the place where two of my teeth overlap. Pretty erotic, huh? [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
Uh-huh.
dan
									
Stuart?
stuart
									
Oh, I thought Josh was gonna talk about my teeth. But I guess I’ll fucking do it. [Multiple people laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Josh: We’re saving it—we’re saving that for our podcast, Stuart’s Teeth. Dan: I mean, like—I mean—maybe he should! Stuart: [Through laughter] Yeah. [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
That’s where I go through my collection of antique teeth. [All laugh.] Uh, yeah. So I also had braces. But interestingly, I didn’t have braces until I was like 18. I had to have corrective surgery because I developed an underbite late in life. Uh— [Josh laughs.] “Late in life” as in, like, [through laughter] when I was 17. [All laugh.]
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Stuart, that would be so sad if that was— Dan: I mean, that’s late to develop an underbite, to be fair. Josh: You’ve been dead for a couple decades. Right?
elliott
									
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s late in life in medieval times. Sure.
dan
									
But you had—you had—yeah. You had jaw surgery.
stuart
									
Medieval Times restaurant? I did. So I had corrective jaw surgery where they put me under and they like… peeled my lips back and then they had to cut my lower jaw and push it backwards and cut my upper jaw and pull it out a little bit. And that’s why when you look at me, you’re like, “Why does he look like a perfect specimen of a human?” Well it’s because it’s created by science. It’s not—y’know.
dan
									
Now, would you recommend this procedure, Stuart? [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
I mean, look at the results! He’s super handsome!
stuart
									
Yeah. I mean, I think they speak for themselves. Although I do remember waking up from that surgery and immediately vomiting a mixture of the pizza I’d eaten the day before and blood? So I don’t recommend that part [through laughter] of…
elliott
									
Like a vampire Ninja Turtle.
josh
									
I’ll tell you what—this listener got more than they bargained for with their question. [All laugh.]
elliott
									
Stuart, you reminded me of a surgery I had forgotten about where my teeth were not coming in fast enough for my orthodontist’s liking, so they pulled two of my teeth, cut open the gums, and put brackets on teeth that had not come out yet and they slowly pulled those teeth down with little chains. Like, over time.
crosstalk
									
Dan: Oh god. Stuart: Gross. Elliott: Horrible.
stuart
									
I love the idea that this is the type of question that somebody’s used to asking at parties and is like super bummed that it turned into a long conversation. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
Jordan, go back and put a content warning in for “Tooth Violence,” please. [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
Yeah. Josh, you also have great teeth.
josh
									
Thank you. I feel like my teeth are fine. Here’s—this is my dental secret. When I was like a tween, I had a couple teeth that just didn’t—I have like two fewer teeth than I should? Not to brag. [Laughs.] [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Oh, wow. I’m not gonna make that joke.
josh
									
And so they were like, “Look, there’s a little extra space in your mouth. We could give you braces, but that’s a whole thing. Or we could shave down your two fang-like teeth next to your front teeth so that they’ll just be a little stumpy, but we won’t have to put the whole thing in to line them up.” And my parents and I were like, “Yeah, do the weird thing that no one’s ever done!” [All laugh.] And so I’m… not very self-conscious, but whenever I think about my teeth I remember that the two teeth next to my front teeth are just short little guys. They’re like little sidekick teeth. [Multiple people laugh.]
dan
									
Okay. So there ya go! [Through laughter] Um… some of you are horrified, some of you are aroused.
stuart
									
I love that some people listen to our show as they’re going to sleep and this will certainly affect their dreams. [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
Let me cute this up with some cute teeth talk. My older son, Sammy, he has lost both of his front two teeth so he has got a super-classic adorable kid face. But with the second tooth—we put it under his pillow and he wrote a letter to the tooth fairy asking if this tooth fairy was the same tooth fairy that took his last tooth. And the letter he got in response explained that it’s the same tooth fairy ‘cause this is the tooth fairy that handles California, and there are different tooth fairies for every state and major city. And country. And he was very excited about learning that. [Josh laughs.] So there’s a network of tooth fairies out there, all working regionally. Let’s support ‘em as best we can in these hard times.
josh
									
The New Jersey tooth fairy? Michael Imperioli! [All laugh. Someone claps.]
elliott
									
He’ll sometimes come when the teeth aren’t ready to come out yet. And he’ll just stick his hand in the kid’s mouth and be like, “Come on! Wiggle it out, buddy! Come on! Get it out of there!”
dan
									
“They’re coming out sometime!” Um… okay. Well—
elliott
									
And then he takes a big roll of bills out of his pocket—not in a wallet—and just peels off two ones and throws ‘em onto the bed and walks out. [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
Let’s do the final segment of the show, which is recommendations. If you want something maybe a little better than Primal—
elliott
									
Is that possible? [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
Who knows? Well let’s see. I—in honor of Cagemas, fortunately, I actually watched a Nicolas Cage movie that I had not seen before. I’m surprised I hadn’t seen it before. It took me a very long time. But I watched Valley Girl, which I—
elliott
									
Ah!
dan
									
—enjoyed quite a bit. It was like—y’know, like, I grew up with these ‘80s teen comedies and so it was nice to find one that I—like, I hadn’t seen before that I could enjoy that also was like— [Laughs.] Had like a very minimal, like… objectionable amount of stuff in it. Like there’s nothing in it that upset me. I mean, Nic Cage gets a little stalker-y at the end, but other than that it’s—
crosstalk
									
Dan: It’s a very sweet movie. Stuart: That movie has my number-one hamburger bite I’ve ever seen in a movie. Dan: Oh, yeah? [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
That’s also ranked next to my favorite snakes, if you’re wondering. It’s in my journal. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
It’s number-one behind two other hamburger bites from other movies. [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Stuart: I’m never gonna hear the last of that. Josh: Number three is a snake biting a hamburger.
elliott
									
Oh, if only a snake bit—a Bushmaster biting into a hamburger? Why haven’t we seen that in movies yet?
stuart
									
[Through laughter] Oh my god. That’s gonna be my next tattoo. [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
You know the Lumiere brothers were like, “This is why we created this medium. To see a snake biting into a burger.” And it just hasn’t happened yet.
dan
									
So this movie is from 1983. A lot of people probably know about it already so I won’t go too much into it. But it’s a… it was made to capitalize on the brief cultural fascination with the idea of the Valley Girl, which came out of—in some part—the Frank Zappa/Moon Unit Zappa song, “Valley Girl,” which is really like… sort of shitty and snide about Valley Girls in a way that the movie is not at all. It’s directed by Martha Coolidge and I think it’s one of these cases where having a woman director do this movie that focuses, in large part, on this young girl, allows her to be a little more complex than otherwise would be the case. Otherwise they could just be making fun of this. But it’s a Romeo and Juliet tale. A Valley Girl falls for a punk from not the Valley, played by Nicolas Cage. And two things I wanna say about it is like, number one, I think movies get punks wrong a lot of the time? Like I feel like in movies they are just shown as these forces of aggression? And y’know the punks that I knew from college… I feel like… a lot of them used this aggressive stance to cover up for a lot of sensitivity. This was like their way of kind of dealing with the world. And Nicolas Cage felt like one of these people I could have known. And I also wanna say that y’know just at the beginning of his career, sometimes you forget what a dreamboat this guy was? Like, you look at him in this movie. He’s got beautiful eyes, and you can see how, like, there’s no way this young woman would not fall for this guy. Like… he is—he just wants to be with her. He’s so sweet. And it’s just a really, like, sweet movie that you know that these kids aren’t gonna stay together. This is a high school romance. But it’s a movie that is as much about, I think, the lead becoming a better person and learning what it is to strike out and make your own path as it is about the romance? So I was touched by it. It’s a lot of fun.
josh
									
I’m gonna go on the similar theme of good Nicolas Cage movies from the ‘80s. And this is one that maybe a lot of people have seen. It escaped my viewing. I was trying, for years, but it kept escaping. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
Every time you thought you’d catch it, you’d go to the snare and it would be empty. With just like some drops of blood where it chewed its way out.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Y’know. [Inaudible.] Josh: A taunting note. [Multiple people laugh.]
josh
									
“Mr. Gondelman, you should’ve caught me. I gave you all the clues.” Or some such. [Multiple people laugh.] But Moonstruck.
crosstalk
									
Stuart: Yes. Josh: Which like—a classic that I’ve missed out on. Elliott: Yeah, it’s a great movie.
josh
									
My—early this year, my wife had been like, “Oh, let’s watch Moonstruck!” We had a night off to watch a movie. She’s like, “How about Moonstruck?” I said, “Sure.” I didn’t know anything about it. The only thing I knew is, it’s either the one where Nicolas Cage eats the bug, or it’s not! And folks! It’s not. [Multiple people laugh.] Cher and Nicolas Cage play people living in like Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, in the ‘80s. Very Italian neighborhood. Cher gets engaged. Her fiancé leaves to go see his… grandmother, I think, in Italy? And he tasks her with inviting his estranged brother, Nicolas Cage, to their wedding. And when she does, he’s unreasonable and sexually magnetic and it’s—like you said—I felt like I did some bagging on Nicolas Cage for being, y’know, older—slightly-older-than-middle-aged and a little disheveled in Primal? But this is Nicolas Cage where you’re like, “Oh, this guy gets after it. He really brings it in the sack.” [Multiple people laugh.] And it’s like kind of the central theme of the movie is Nicolas Cage is so good at sex he’ll change your life. The whole course of your life. [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
Yeah. You’re like, “That’s what a white tank top is supposed to look like on a person.”
josh
									
[Through laughter] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
stuart
									
Yeah. That movie’s so much fun. I saw it for the first time as well during quarantine, and—which is still going on, obviously. [Josh laughs.] And it had been one of my wife’s favorite movies so we got to watch it together and it was like—the moment that it clicked that it’s basically like a Shakespearean comedy but set in Brooklyn was—that’s when I was like, “Oh, I get this movie and I like it a lot!”
josh
									
Yeah. And his—the scene that introduces him is like—I think about it all the time now. The scene where she comes to his bakery—or the bakery where he works to invite him to the wedding. And he’s just like—it’s big Cage, but it also is big Cage in a way that like is within the scope of what he’s supposed to do in this movie? It’s great.
dan
									
I also wanna just give a little behind-the-scenes—we’re using Skype for this call. God knows why ‘cause many better things exist now. With the Skype reactions—
elliott
									
Dan. Dan. It’s inertia. [Josh laughs.]
dan
									
Yeah. The Skype reactions—when I said Valley Girl and when Josh said Moonstruck, both times Stuart did the heart reaction. [Multiple people laugh.]
stuart
									
I was like, “Oh, quick, I gotta show ‘em how much I love it!”
dan
									
Yeah. [Josh laughs.]
stuart
									
[Pointedly.] “Without interrupting.”
elliott
									
Mmm.
stuart
									
So I’m going to break the chain. And I’m going to recommend a new movie that does not feature Nicolas Cage. I’m going to recommend a movie called Sound of Metal. It’s on Amazon Prime right now. It’s about a young punk-rock drummer played by Riz Ahmed who starts to lose his hearing and he has to figure out a way to kinda live a life as a deaf person. And this is a character that as we get to know him, we realize that being a drummer and that sort of thing had also been a way for him to run away from other past issues. And it’s a fairly straightforward drama, but it’s shot beautifully and it has a couple of very amazing performances, including from Riz Ahmed. Who just looks—oh, man—like a whole dang meal, this guy. And the—also I want to mention that my buddy Harry did some of the drum work for it? So I get to continue the recent trend of Stuart name-dropping people involved in movies that he likes.
josh
									
Wooo!
elliott
									
He did it! Good job.
stuart
									
Thank you. Thank you.
elliott
									
Name dropped. Clang. That’s the sound of the name dropping. I’m also not gonna recommend a Nicolas Cage movie. But—because it’s Cagemas—I’m recommending a movie that partly takes place at Christmas? So that’s a connection, I guess? This is—I’m gonna recommend the movie The Silent Partner from 1978, starring Elliott Gould, Christopher Plummer, and Susannah York, which is a—I don’t wanna talk too much about the plot ‘cause it’s twisty and turn-y. But essentially, Elliott Gould is a mild-mannered bank teller who decides he’s going to take advantage of the fact that he suspects that a man—played by Christopher Plummer—is planning to rob the bank to actually kind of pre-rob the bank? And gets involved in, y’know, vengeance and twisty turns and things like that. And it’s really good. It is—even though it is listed as a comedy in some places—
dan
									
Wow.
elliott
									
—it is not a comedy. It is a very, like… it’s a thriller that is both super smart and very well made and also kind of sleazy in an enjoyable way? There’s like… it’s a pretty respectable sleazy thriller that has two scenes that are gruesome. There’s two violent scenes where women are the targets that I’ll warn you about. One of which enters into, like, Giallo territory for a moment. But Christopher Plummer is super scary in it and Elliott Gould is very good in it as a… kind of… not bumbling guy, but a believably, like, guy who got himself in too deep? And it’s—you get to see beautiful Canada in the late ‘70s. And all the house interiors and clothing implied by that. And features a performance by an actress named Céline Lomez? Who I was not super familiar with? And she’s great in it. And she plays a character who has more going on with her than it seems at first. But The Silent Partner, if you’re interested in a taut thriller that is, y’know, just that great slice of ‘70s movies, you could do worse than that. I’d recommend it.
dan
									
Yeah. I appreciate—that is like a mean movie in a lot of ways. Which is what I—I mean, if it’s a comedy, it’s a comedy in the sense—like, a very, very dry sense in the way that people who love thrillers, I think, will sort of chuckle at how, like—
crosstalk
									
Dan: —brutal it gets. Yeah. [Laughs.] Elliott: At mean things that happen to people. Yeah.
elliott
									
But I would not—but it is a thriller. And I watched it being like, “Oh, I’ve heard of this movie before but I don’t really know much about it, and it’s listed as like a comedy-thriller,” and almost instantly I’m like, “This is not a funny movie. Like, this is great, but this is not a funny movie.” Even though John Candy is in it in a small role, not being funny. It’s a—
stuart
									
Impossible.
elliott
									
Yeah. [Laughs.] [Josh laughs.] I mean—a little bit.
stuart
									
He’s got “Candy” in his name for god’s sakes.
elliott
									
He does have “Candy” in his name.
josh
									
He is delicious in this movie. [Multiple people laugh.]
elliott
									
And Christopher Plummer manages to be—just every time he’s on screen, genuinely, like, y’know, frightening and eerie in a way that I did not expect. So.
stuart
									
Do you think when they made the Super Mario Bros. movie— [Dan laughs.] —Christopher Plummer was mad that he didn’t get hired to play Mario ‘cause he’s like, “I’m a Plummer! It’s in my name!”
elliott
									
You know he sent his tape in and was like, “I should’ve worn a moustache when I did the audition. That was my problem. I didn’t wear a moustache on my tape.” So.
dan
									
Y’know, Elliott, you were just like sort of gesturing at a Christopher Plummer voice? But I could at the same time hear it.
crosstalk
									
Elliott: Oh, thanks. Stuart: Yeah. Dan: Really, I think you captured something there.
elliott
									
Thank you. I appreciate that. There’s one moment in this movie—I’ll just tell you how it got at me particularly. Where Christopher Plummer knows where Elliott Gould lives, and he is—he’s always calling him from a payphone outside that he can see him from. And Christopher Plummer comes up into the hallway and starts talking to him through the mail slot? And it is—it was so frightening to me, the idea that it’s like, “Oh, there’s just a door between these two guys and they’re looking at each other through this mail slot.” And it’s like—tapped into the same thing that is like, when you have a dream where you’re going to the bathroom but someone can see you going to the bathroom? Like, that kind of fear of exposure, you know?
stuart
									
The ultimate fantasy? Yeah. [Josh laughs.]
elliott
									
Well, I mean, not for me! But—so anyway. But it was just—there were little things like that that are like super creepy and then the movie gets—yeah. Very brutal. So. That’s my recommendation.
stuart
									
Cool.
dan
									
Well, guys? Josh, it’s been such a pleasure to have you on. Is there a thing—or multiple things—you would like to plug?
elliott
									
Mmm?
josh
									
Oh, thank you! Sure! And this has been such a pleasure for me! I’m such a fan of the show and I really enjoy hanging around and talking about Nic Cage. I have a podcast called Make My Day” It’s a comedy game show where there’s only one contestant, or two contestants playing as a team so the contestants always win. I have a book called Nice Try that’s an essay collection that I’m very proud of and still exists. [Multiple people laugh.] And Desus & Mero comes back on January 31st for season three and I’m very excited and I think it’s a fun show that people might like if they haven’t tried it.
stuart
									
Yeah, it was a big part of my quarantine was watching their current episodes and then catching up with some of the old ones.
josh
									
They’re so funny. And I say that, like, I’m very proud of the show and the work that we do on it, obviously? That the whole team does? But also, it’s just like watching the tapings because they’re so spontaneous. I laugh a lot just like, “Well, I wouldn’t have come up with that.” Just like a very funny way to feel about a show that you write for. [Laughs.]
elliott
									
I was doing a show that never ended up going into production for truTV? And they were like, “We really want the hosts to have like a real Desus & Mero vibe. We want it to be like Desus & Mero.” And I’m like, “You’re not going to. Like, it’s not going to happen. Those two guys have that. That’s it.”
stuart
									
Yeah. You—we want you to give us the dictionary definition of “charisma,” basically. [All laugh.]
josh
									
Yeah. You mean two guys who have like incredible synergy, incredible charisma, incredible chemistry, and their list of references include “everything that’s ever happened.” [All laugh.]
dan
									
Okay, guys. Well, yes. Again, thank you, Josh, for being here. Thank you to Jordan Kauwling for making us sound good by doing editing and sound stuff and all sorts of things I don’t understand. If you listen to the podcast when I did it, you can hear the improvement. [Josh laughs.] Thank you to our network, Maximum Fun. Please rate us on iTunes. Well, I hope. Let people know about the show. Check out the other great podcasts at MaximumFun.org and I think that’s it. Thank you so much. Another Cagemas in the books. I’ve been Dan McCoy.
stuart
									
I’ve been Stuart Wellington!
elliott
									
I’m still Elliott Kalan!
josh
									
Oh! I—I was—I’ve been Josh Gondelman. [Multiple people laugh.] I didn’t wanna intrude.
elliott
									
This is something we continually forget to tell our guests, that they should say their names too at the end. This happens a lot.
crosstalk
									
Dan: I was just thinking— Stuart: I like it this way.
dan
									
I was just thinking, I’m like, “Oh, did we figure it out? Like, that seemed like a pretty smooth ending. Did we figure it out?” And then it turns out we didn’t.
stuart
									
We nailed it. [Josh laughs.]
crosstalk
									
Elliott: No. We were— Josh: This was my fault, not yours. [Laughs.] [Dan laughs.]
elliott
									
We were walking over the house and we said, “Didn’t trip over our own dicks this time!” And then suddenly what was in our path? Our own dicks.
josh
									
[Through laughter] And I tripped over ‘em. [All laugh.]
dan
									
See ya next time! Bye!
elliott
									
Light, up-tempo, electric guitar with synth instruments.
stuart
									
I’m not an accent guy. I think we’ve covered that on the show. I’m more of a, y’know, like a hype-man type character?
elliott
									
Mm-hm. Yep. Yep. For Castle Freak.
stuart
									
Yep. [Music ends.]
music
									
A cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 1
									
MaximumFun.org.
speaker 2
									
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
									
Artist owned—
speaker 4
									
—Audience supported.
About the show

The Flop House is a bimonthly audio podcast devoted to the worst in recent film. Your hosts (Elliott Kalan, Dan McCoy, and Stuart Wellington) watch a questionable film just before each episode, and then engage in an unscripted, slightly inebriated discussion, focusing on the movie’s shortcomings and occasional delights.
Follow @flophousepod on Twitter and @theflophousepodcast on Instagram. Email them at theflophousepodcast@gmail.com.