TRANSCRIPT Depresh Mode Ep. 158: Shannon & the Clams’ Shannon Shaw on Building Something Beautiful in the Wake of Tragedy

After her fiancé died, Shannon got to work processing the grief and making a new album.

Podcast: Depresh Mode with John Moe

Episode number: 158

Guests: Shannon Shaw



John Moe: Look, I’m not going to sugarcoat it. This week’s episode is hard. It can be a tough listen. It talks about death—sudden, unexpected, horrible death. It talks about the searing pain of grief, and you can hear the pain and the grief of the person who I talk with. So, yeah, I’m not going to sugarcoat that, but I’m also not going to—I don’t know what the opposite of sugar coat is. I guess salt coat? I’m not going to salt coat it, either. This week’s episode is beautiful and inspirational. It talks about the love being felt by the person I talk to, and the love of a lot of people around her, and about the art and insight and preservation of love that can emerge even from unimaginable tragedy.

So, the episode is about love and loss, about pain and beauty, and all those things coexisting. It’s a lot. So, get ready. It’s Depresh Mode, I’m John Moe, I’m glad you’re here.

Transition: Spirited acoustic guitar.

John Moe: Shannon Shaw is the lead singer of the band Shannon & the Clams. Wikipedia describes them as an indie garage punk band that incorporates elements of doo-wop, classic R&B, garage, psyche, and surf music. Shannon & the Clams’ new album is The Moon is in the Wrong Place. It just came out last Friday, and it has to do with some very specific subject matter.

In August of 2022, Shannon’s fiancé, Joe Haener, died in an auto accident. They were due to be married later that year. Joe was also a close friend of the other members of the band. Most of the music on The Moon is in the Wrong Place was written in the aftermath of that loss. And like I said about this episode of our show, I won’t sugarcoat it—the album can be a lot when you hear the pain. And like I said about this episode of our show, I won’t salt coat it either. It’s pretty beautiful. Here’s a little bit of the title track of The Moon is in the Wrong Place.

Music: “The Moon is in the Wrong Place” from the album The Moon is in the Wrong Place by Shannon & the Clams.

The sun burned out when you left this world

Now there is some imposter in the sky

Look for you in starlight

Eyeballs searching skies for satellites

(Music fades out.)

John Moe: Shannon Shaw, welcome to Depresh Mode.

Shannon Shaw: Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here.

John Moe: I want to talk about the album and about your music. The album is The Moon is in the Wrong Place. But I feel like we need to start by talking about Joe. Tell me who Joe Haener was.

Shannon Shaw: Joe Haener was my fiancé, is the love of my life. Um. He was an amazing drummer, an amazing vegetable farmer. That was—those were his two careers. Kind of seemed like polar opposite careers, but what I’ve come to realize since he’s passed is that there’s a whole lot of rhythm and a whole lot of meditation with both of them. That’s like something I didn’t get at the time, but now I get it. And yeah, he played in bands that toured the world. And then when he wasn’t touring the world, he would take these long breaks and just work on his family farm and be kind of isolated up in Oregon.

And we—I’d had a crush on him for years in the Oakland—back when I lived in Oakland. And I randomly bumped into him a few times on the I-5 while I was on tour, and he happened to be like down the—I think the first time he was downloading Larry Sanders in a Starbucks, in Tualatin, Oregon. Anyway. We have a long, wonderful love story, but yeah. He was my fiancé.

John Moe: And if you’re able, tell me what happened with him.

Shannon Shaw: (Sighs.) Um, well, he was hit on his way to work by another pickup truck.


(Voice shakes.) And his truck flipped a bunch of times and exploded. And it flipped into a field that he actually—he wasn’t at work yet, but he was really close. But it flipped into a field that he’d actually planted himself and had been like maintaining himself, which is just odd. It could have, you know, happened somewhere else, but it happened right there. And yeah, that’s where the beanfields is. Was. Now, it’s—it was beanfields when he passed away and then it became cornfields. And I don’t know what it’s going to be this year, but last year when it became cornfields—you know, they got to rotate crops. When it became the cornfields, I mean, it’s—these farmers, they know what they’re doing. They’ve been doing it for 100 years. These particular farmers. They don’t have old crops, old seeds that survive and are like growing up through their preexisting crops, unless it’s an organic crop.

Anyway, this—Joe’s beans were growing throughout the entire cornfield. Which was pretty unheard of, apparently. So, it was really nice to go through the cornfields and see Joe’s beans everywhere.

John Moe: Yeah. This happened a couple years ago now. When did the idea emerge to make music in memoriam of Joe and in celebration of Joe? And how did the album emerge from wherever albums emerge from?

Shannon Shaw: Well, it happened about a year and a half ago. And I would say right away, music started coming to me. That’s just how I’ve dealt with horrible things ever since I was a little kid. Like, melodies come to me and like words wind into melodies. Really, ever since I was little. Long before I knew that I would ever be a musician, I was making up songs as like a way to handle a hard situation. So, I would say, you know, within the first few days when we’re all still totally stunned and me and his family are just like in—like, literally in the field, sometimes sleeping in the field, like where he last was, laying down, music was coming to me. And I think it’s just like some kind of self-soothing response I have. So—and then it became like an obsession, where—or maybe more of a compulsion. I don’t know. It’s like all I—I couldn’t stop thinking of music and wanting to like get it down.

So, in my voice notes, which we’re recording on right now, I just have incredible amounts of—you know, they don’t sound great at first, but just like, you know, me murmuring little nugs of songs at all hours, for months and months into my phone. Right away I started writing, and I know that Cody started writing right away as well, ‘cause—I mean, everyone in my band loved Joe deeply. He went on tour with us a lot. And he played in my solo band a lot. So, everyone that played in the solo band loved—everyone who actually knew him loved him so much. He was just like a guy that made everyone feel like special and heard and appreciated. So, he made a big mark on everyone.

So, I think that me and Cody both did start just having ideas immediately. And it was just January 2nd that we got together at Will—the keyboard player, Will Sprott. He opened up his home, and the band got together after doing a three-night New Year’s gig.


We all went to Will’s house and just started getting together and writing. So, it was soon after.

John Moe: Yeah. How do you—what’s the process of all those little recordings, all those little voice memos on your phone? Like, how do you musicians turn those in into songs? Like, how do you take those ingredients and make a meal of them?

Shannon Shaw: Yeah. I’m glad that you call them ingredients and said, “How do you make a meal out of them?”, because I really do think that cooking and making music is really similar. I mean, and like painting and drawing, it’s really similar. You’re looking for balance and flow and highlights and all these things that are in common. But the way that I take—I like to call them nugs. I know that there’s better words, I’m sure, but that’s just what I go to. I just go straight for the nugs.

John Moe: Nugs is a good one. Sure. (Chuckles.)

Shannon Shaw: So, I’ll like comb through. I’ll sit down with the bass, and that’s traditionally what I did for years. I did it a little different this time, because I was just overflowing with ideas and mental information that I could not find on the bass. So, normally I start combing through, and I find one that is promising, and I immediately start getting an idea for this nug. So, I’ll pick up the base, and I’ll start to pick out like where that is on the base and maybe hum over it. Or if I already had a vocal line to go over it. But as I was saying, I was just overflowing with ideas. I could not capture all of them on the bass. And I really only play bass. And I really, I’m after—even though I’ve been playing for a while, for a long time now, I guess. I started when I was 24. I’m still a late bloomer. I know the strings, but I don’t know a whole lot else. So, I felt really limited. And like, I wished I knew all the chords on a guitar, but really Joe taught me about like six chords. So, it was just not enough chords for me to pull out these ideas in my head.

So, then I kept asking people like is there a device or like a keyboard setting or something where I could just like push a button and it plays a whole chord? And eventually someone told me about an Omnichord. Or what is the non-digital version? First, they told me about that, and then I went for the Omnichord, and that opened up my whole world. And I was completely obsessed. I got that; I moved to LA mid-January, after we had that writing session. And I spent a lot of my time just like staying up all night crying and playing this Omnichord and writing songs and being able to go places and find musical things that I couldn’t find before. Things that are in my head, but I just couldn’t pick out. A lot of the time when I’m writing, I’ll be singing it to Cody like what I hear in my head. But sometimes I can’t even sing it. You know. So, it was really helpful to have that other instrument to help tease things out of my mind.

John Moe: Could you describe an Omnichord? Because I think a lot of people don’t know what that is.

Shannon Shaw: Yes, I can! And I’m wondering where the heck it is. So, I’ll explain it the way that I know how to use it. And I’m sure that some synth lord would be correcting me.

(John chuckles.)

But hey, this is—I’m talking to the—

John Moe: What is an Omnichord to you, I should say?

Shannon Shaw: An Omnichord to me is basically a small—it’s a small, portable synthesizer with—it has this thing called a strum plate. And then it’s got buttons that—all the buttons are labeled for major, minor, and then sevenths, which I don’t know what those are, but sometimes they sound real good. And you can set the sound that you want. So, a lot of the time I’m playing with—


I’ll set it to have like a string sound or a piano sound or an organ. I’ll usually do an organ sound. So, I’ll set it to have an organ sound. And then you can have it play a beat behind you, which helps me so much. That’s another thing I used to do is I would ask Cody or Nate to send me a drum loop. I’d say like, “Send me like punk drums, have them be like (scats an energetic drum line). You know. Send me punk drums on a loop, and then I will write music on top of it.” That just like helps me. But with the Omnichord, I could just do that myself. I could just set the drums, and you could change the speed, speed it up. And it’s not like you are making up the drums. They have presets. They have preset sounds. But that’s great. Sometimes I think I’m a lot more creative when I have boundaries. I don’t know why.

So, you set the drumbeat, you set the sound. And then if you want to play a B, you hit a B, and then there’s a strum plate, which is basically this long, flat thing that you like glide your finger across, and that’s when the sound comes out. So, you push down the B button and you strum, brrrrrt. And then, if you are strumming higher on the strum plate, it’s going to be a high B, or you go low, it’s a low B. Or you could go high to low. And then you could just keep pushing buttons around and pick out all the different sounds you want. So, I felt like it just really gave me a lot of options. It’s amazing when you see people who know what they’re doing on an Omnichord. (Chuckles.) They play it really differently than I do. It’s amazing to see, honestly. AutoHarp! AutoHarp. That’s the non-digital, that’s the analog version. Yeah.

John Moe: AutoHarp is the analog version. Okay.

Transition: Spirited acoustic guitar.

John Moe: Just ahead, the nugs start coming together into actual music.

Transition: Gentle acoustic guitar.

John Moe: We’re back with Shannon Shaw of the band Shannon & the Clams.

So, then you’re in LA with an Omnichord, and the nugs start turning into songs. So, what was that like for your grief, as these fully-formed songs began to emerge?

Shannon Shaw: I felt like it was good, you know. I felt so—(sighs). So, I’ve never gone through anything like this before. And I don’t know—I didn’t know anyone who’s lost their—like, you know. Literally, the day Joe died, I was on my way—I was on my way to check an alternative wedding venue in the morning, and then I was going to my bachelorette party in Reno. That’s like what I was doing. That’s how close we were to our wedding. And I’ve just like, still to this day, like not come across someone who’s lost someone that close to them, that in love, you know, that sure of everything. So, it was really hard to find—I knew a lot of people who loved Joe deeply, but to like find someone who was absolutely like on the same page and totally got it. Like, that was definitely—you know, that’s the really isolating feeling.

But I think that pouring all my grief into making this music and pounding away on this Omnichord was really great medicine for me and gave me something to focus on. You know, I had—I still have a lot of this energy, this like extreme energy that I didn’t have before. And it needs to go somewhere.


And it definitely feels like I’m harnessing—I was harnessing that and focusing it somewhere. And I feel so grateful that I have somewhere to put it. You know, that I am able—that I’m someone who is able to make music, able to make art. I’m grateful that I have friends and family and bandmates and things like that. I really feel… I wonder how people that are grieving that don’t have creative outlets, how do they do this? I don’t know. How do they do it? It was really—it’s—yeah.

John Moe: Yeah. (Beat.) I wanted to ask about some of the songs on the album. And I wanted to ask about “The Vow”, which I think was written before Joe’s death.

(Shannon confirms.)

In an album that is sort of about loss, this song kind of stands out. Why—tell me about the song and why it’s on the album.

Shannon Shaw: I did write it before. I was going to perform this at our wedding. (Chuckles.) Woah.

Music: “The Vow” from the album The Moon is in the Wrong Place by Shannon & the Clams.

Beautiful guy with the sun in your eyes

I’ve been waiting, waiting for your love

Now you’re all mine for all time

You’re so much more than I knew I could ask for

Mister Sandman brought me a dream

Now you’re all mine for all time

(Music fades out.)

Shannon Shaw: And it felt really unfair that it wasn’t gonna get to see the light of day. And there’s this part of me that wants to shield people from like the awfulness of all this grief. And then there’s a part of me that wants people to understand just like a sliver of it. (Voice cracks.) Because me sharing this song that’s so full of like hope and dreams and joy, like that pain is only a tiny fraction of what I’m actually experiencing. So, I think that putting that song back-to-back with “Hourglass” was (sniffles) my move to kind of show everyone how my world got rocked. You know, like how I went from like literally like the happiest I’ve ever been in my whole life—the like—the most at peace and the most hopeful. And then just like, yeah, losing it in the blink of an eye.

John Moe: Yeah. Which is what the “Hourglass” song is the other end of, as you said.

Shannon Shaw: Yeah. Well, that like chaos. Like, I want to—that song, I’m like so proud of our band for being able to put that song together. I think that’s my favorite song on the album. Probably.

John Moe: “Hourglass”?

Shannon Shaw: I feel like—yeah, I feel like it just like captures the chaos, the like tension and the misery and… the like raw honesty of the loss, of like just the confusion of time now. And like, what are we doing now? You know?


Music: “Hourglass” from the album The Moon is in the Wrong Place by Shannon & the Clams.

Someone stole our time away

Left me with Dali’s clock

It’s ticking in the dark

Turning me inside out

If I was a wizard, I’d flip the hourglass

But I don’t think I’d find you anywhere

(Music fades out.)

John Moe: I noticed that song mentions Dali’s clock—which, you know, the Salvador Dali painting with the drippy clocks. And then there’s another song, called “Dali’s Clock” later on. Why is that clock such a prominent feature in the album to appear in two songs?

Shannon Shaw: I mean, really just like time in general, uh… has like completely, completely changed for me. The whole concept has changed for me. It really doesn’t—(chuckles dryly) like, it really doesn’t matter anymore. And it—all these different sayings that you’ve—that I’ve heard my whole life now have—take on like a new meaning. That I’m like, oh, ooh, that hits different now that I’ve like—have gone through this. You know, like when people are like, “Time is but a construct,” I’m like, oh. I kind of—I always understood what that meant, but now it’s like, oh, woah. Now I really understand what that means.

I guess when I think of those clocks in that painting, I guess the absurdity of—I mean, they’re useless. You know, they’re totally useless. They’re—one’s flopped over a branch, you know. One’s like leaning over a surface and doing nothing, and it just becomes an object. And (sniffles)… I guess… its like function is completely taken away, but it’s still there. Like, it’s still representing something, but what does it matter? (Sniffles.)

John Moe: Do you still—is time still broken for you now?

Shannon Shaw: I mean, I think it’s like—it’s more of a kind of a psychedelic concept than it was before.

John Moe: How so?

Shannon Shaw: (Sighs.) Um. It moves… so fast and so slow at the exact same time for me. I don’t even know what that means. I probably sound a little nuts saying that, but it’s like—what? No, I don’t sound crazy?

John Moe: You don’t sound crazy.

Shannon Shaw: Okay. It’s like… I don’t know. It does… I guess another concept that I don’t—that has been hard for me to wrap my mind around but is always there is two opposite things being totally true at once. Like time being so fast and so slow.

Transition: Spirited acoustic guitar.

John Moe: More with Shannon Shaw in just a moment.

Transition: Gentle acoustic guitar.

John Moe: Back with Shannon Shaw, the titular Shannon of Shannon & the Clams.

I’m interested in the process of your group, your band, working through grief collectively, and then also facing the very complicated and very difficult task of putting an album together. What was the group dynamic in the process of putting together the album The Moon is in the Wrong Place, in terms of—you know, how did you support each other? How did you figure out what was most important? Like, what was the—how was the creative process for this different than other albums that you’ve done?

Shannon Shaw: Um… this one just had so much tenderness, you know? I think that—I think the boys leaned back a lot, and wanted to like let me lead in a lot of ways.


And wanted to let me make like decisions that were really important to me. Whereas normally it’s like we’re really democratic. (Sniffles.) I think that they just really wanted to like support me in that way. But we also did things differently. Like in January, when we got together after New Year’s, we had everyone bring their own private nugs to the table. So, Will had some little things to share, and Nate had some things to share. And Cody and I, of course. And so, we spent a couple days just jamming, which is very abnormal. That’s not normally how I like to do things. It’s really hard for me. But I feel like more detached, which I think is weirdly freeing. Like, I feel less—(sighs) less bogged down by my insecurities or something.

So, like whereas jamming on something I don’t know used to terrify me, and I was definitely like, “Hell no, I’m never doing that.” Now I’m like, “Fine, sure. If you guys want to do that, let’s try it.” You know? I think that like this loss has put a lot of—it’s definitely brought a lot of perspective, and definitely let me shed a lot of things that were not serving me and were just wasting my time. So, we jammed on a lot of stuff, (sniffles) and a lot of those things got recorded and worked into songs, and that was nice. That was a good thing to do. A good exercise.

John Moe: Did you, as the leader in this situation—you know, when people were deferring to you, did you feel a need to take care of the other people in your band that—to try to make things okay for them?

Shannon Shaw: (Sighs.) I… that’s a really interesting question that you’re asking me right now. And I want to answer it. Uh, I don’t even know how to answer that. I don’t—I was in such a fog then. What I’ve learned from my—so, I do grief counseling, and I have like a grief group that I go to every week. And they say that you’re in a fog for like—you could be in it for like over a year. And I would say that I was in it ‘til—for over a year. So, I feel like I’m just now coming out of it, and I don’t really remember if I was taking care of them. I doubt it. Which I think that I’m a very nurturing, warm, loving person. But I think that I was spending a lot of time by myself, like in the room that Will put me up in there. So, that was like a really dark—I was having a tough time when I was there.

John Moe: Yeah. The album concludes with the song “Life is Unfair”.

Music: “Life is Unfair” from the album The Moon is in the Wrong Place by Shannon & the Clams.

How do you expect me to understand

That the love of my life was taken away from me

All the blossoms blooming, twilight looming

Without you on this earth?

Life is unfair

(Music fades out.)

John Moe: I mean, it’s a beautiful song, and… what went into—like, where in the process was that song written? Because it’s at the end of the album. Was it the last song you wrote?

Shannon Shaw: It’s—oh gosh, I don’t think it’s the last song I wrote, but I would be really curious. That makes me want to sort through my nugs (laughs) and see what was last.


But that… concept came because—so, I spent like probably two months at the farm after he passed away. He and I spent a lot of time at the farm when he was alive, but we had an apartment in Portland. And then he would go to work every day about 30 minutes south. And then I would go down there frequently and just hang out. But I basically lived there. I couldn’t go back to our apartment. And so, I would either stay there, or I’d go stay with Cody and his family who live in Portland. But most of the time I was at the farm. And I just—I was either—was like vacillating between being completely numb and just felt dead, or being hysterical and sobbing. Or I’d see something that was like overwhelming me with like… beauty. Like, things that were beautiful like would like knock me out. Like, made me—like, would really like—okay, here’s another saying.

I was saying earlier that like (sniffles) sayings I’ve heard my whole life now take on this new meaning. I would see something that would take my breath away. Like, this is the first time in my life that I would see a sunset that would take my breath away. You know? Like, I don’t know if you’ve gotten to see the album art, but the back cover—Joe’s brother, Danny, who is a really quiet, super humble person, shared with me some photos he took of the farm that made him think of Joe. And they are like—they should be in a museum. They’re the most incredibly beautiful photos. But we all saw the most like shocking sunsets we’ve ever seen in our lives. And I don’t know; I want to just say it was Joe saying hello or goodbye or something, but they were so overwhelming that they took my breath away. And I have photos that—I mean, I’ll share them with you if you want. They’re totally incredible. And I’d never seen them, seen the sky like that before there.

And it was the whole week or two after he passed away. And I had a lot of just overwhelming moments with nature out there that were humbling and made me take a moment to like appreciate being there and like being alive. And… I guess it was like—I’ve never like been someone that like has practiced gratitude or even like knew how, but I think it was like the first time where I was like, “Oh, is this gratitude?” (Chuckles.) You know? But like feeling that way, feeling like grateful for like bees and like the blossoms that are all over these like bean vines. And I don’t know, but it felt important. You know, all of those moments felt really important to me.

John Moe: Yeah. Well, it’s a beautiful song. It’s a beautiful album. You know, from what I know of grief from experiencing it myself and talking with professionals who specialize in the subject, it seems like you did a lot of things right in terms of, you know, being aware of what you were going through—not just keeping busy, but keeping busy with something related to the grief that you were experiencing. And you know, communing with this person who you love after he’s gone. You know, sleeping in those fields and going back to this farm. Was there strategy involved in this process for you, or did you just come upon it naturally, some really healthy habits?


Shannon Shaw: Uuum, was there strategy? Like—?

John Moe: Yeah. Was there—you know, did you say, “Okay, I’m going to—like, I’m faced with this situation. I’m going to put together an album. I’m going to spend X amount of time at this farm.” You know.

Shannon Shaw: Oh, no.

John Moe: Or were you just sort of following what felt right?

Shannon Shaw: No, yeah, I was just doing what felt right. I mean, I felt—in a lot of ways, I felt like I wasn’t even there, you know. There was times where I’d—if I would get up and be walking around, I’d be like, “Woah, I’m walking!” (Chuckles.) You know, like not there. (Sniffles.) And I don’t know, definitely not strategy. But was trying to be conscious of… being—trying really hard to take care of my mental health. (Sniffles.) And not letting that go unchecked, you know. Like, I feel like it would be really easy to like go too dark and—(softly) you know, I don’t know.

John Moe: Was mental health an issue for you before Joe died?

Shannon Shaw: Oh, I don’t—(stammering) I wouldn’t say worse than any other artist. You know. Some—I have anxiety and some depression, but nothing that was super unmanageable or anything like that. But you know, this was—this is huge. This is a huge thing for me.

John Moe: Are you dealing with anxiety and depression now?

Shannon Shaw: Well, I take medication for that. And that has been—I’m really happy that I do. Because if I hadn’t been treating that—if I hadn’t started treating that a couple of years before, I think that this would have been a much more dangerous experience for me. (Sniffles.) ‘Cause I can’t imagine feeling the way that I was or am and then making that worse, because of course I’m depressed. (Chuckles.) And yeah, of course I do have anxiety, but I think it’s like an “of course I’m out”, instead of outrageous, you know, dangerous—I don’t know. (Sniffles.)

John Moe: Yeah. As we speak today, you’re getting ready to go out on tour in the not-too-distant future. And certainly over the summer, it looks like you’ve got a lot of tour dates. How do you think it’s going to be to play some of these songs in live settings? Do you think it’s going to be a challenge or what?

Shannon Shaw: Yeah, I think it’s going to be a challenge, but I am doing my best to be prepared. Like, I have a vocal coach who’s a really good friend of mine, and she was a really good friend of Joe’s. She and Joe played in a band together for like 10 years. And so, working together is—it’s great for me, and I know it’s been healing for her. Because she has to listen to the songs on this album a lot. She’s just—she’s told me that. But I think that if I go in super confident that, “Oh, I’ve got this song down, I can play this song in my sleep,”—which is not how I normally operate. Like, pre-Joe passing away, like Shannon & the Clams, we’re not like—before we weren’t big at rehearsing.

(John chuckles.)

And I don’t know why we should be—you know. I think we’ve just always been like, “Yeah, we’ll get together a little bit before and run through the set a time or two.”


But we know bands that will rehearse for like a full week or two before they get on the road. I guess it’s just expensive to do that. Maybe that’s why we don’t do it. But now I’m like, no, I get it. I’ll just have to do it by myself. Because I just want to get like my head in the game. Because if I know what the plan is, if I know what I’m doing, if I know what’s expected of me—you know, to me I feel like I’m being, you know, galvanized. It’s like I’m putting on armor. And I feel like I’ll be a lot less fragile on stage, and I can give a performance that’s powerful instead of… instead of fragile. Which I—there’s nothing wrong with fragile, but dang it, I gotta make it through this set. (Chuckles.) And I have to—you know, I gotta survive, and I have to like do it again and again and again. So, it’s better for me to be in my armor and like be doing this in that way.

John Moe: Well, I wish you all the success on the road. And congratulations on The Moon is in the Wrong Place, and thank you for making this album, and thanks for telling your story.

Shannon Shaw: You’re welcome.

Music: “The Moon is in the Wrong Place” from the album The Moon is in the Wrong Place by Shannon & the Clams.

The moon is in the wrong place

The moon is in the wrong place

The moon is in the wrong place

The moon is in the wrong place

(Music fades out.)

John Moe: The Moon is in the Wrong is available in all the music places now. You can check out their tour dates at

Music: “Building Wings” by Rhett Miller, an up-tempo acoustic guitar song. The music continues quietly under the dialogue.

John Moe: Grief hurts so bad, because love is so goddamn powerful. And grief is made of love. Our show exists because people support it financially. That’s our model. That’s the way we operate is people get something out of the show, and then they kick us a few bucks to help keep the show going. If you’ve already donated and become a member, thank you. If not, it’s easy to do. Just go to,, and find a level that works for you. And then pick Depresh Mode from the list of shows. Be sure to hit subscribe, give us five stars, write rave reviews, all of that helps get the show out into the world where it can help people.

The 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline can be reached in the United States and Canada by calling or texting 988. It’s free, it’s available 24/7.

Our Instagram and Twitter are both @DepreshPod. Our newsletter, Depresh Mode Newsletter, is on Substack. You can search that up. I’m on Twitter and Instagram, @JohnMoe. Be sure to join our Preshies group over on Facebook. A lot of great discussion happening over there about mental health, about our lives, sometimes about our show. It’s a great hangout. I like to hang out there and interact with you. Please use our electric mail address,

Hi, credits listeners. Boy, I’ve done a lot of interviews for this show. This one with Shannon Shaw was one of my favorites. Depresh Mode is made possible by your contributions. Our production team includes Raghu Manavalan, Kevin Ferguson, and me. We got booking help from Mara Davis. Rhett Miller wrote and performed our theme song, “Building Wings”.

Depresh Mode is a production of Maximum Fun and Poputchik. I’m John Moe. Bye now.

Music: “Building Wings” by Rhett Miller.

I’m always falling off of cliffs, now

Building wings on the way down

I am figuring things out

Building wings, building wings, building wings


No one knows the reason

Maybe there’s no reason

I just keep believing

No one knows the answer

Maybe there’s no answer

I just keep on dancing

Kevin: Hi, this is Kevin from Long Beach. I just wanted to say: whatever you’re going through, you’re not going through it alone.

(Music fades out.)

Transition: Cheerful ukulele chord.

Speaker 1: Maximum Fun.

Speaker 2: A worker-owned network.


Speaker 3: Of artist owned shows.

Speaker 4: Supported—

Speaker 5: —directly—

Speaker 6: —by you!

About the show

Join host John Moe (The Hilarious World of Depression) for honest, relatable, and, yes, sometimes funny conversations about mental health. Hear from comedians, musicians, authors, actors, and other top names in entertainment and the arts about living with depression, anxiety, and many other common disorders. Find out what they’ve done to address it, what worked, and what didn’t. Depresh Mode with John Moe also features useful insights on mental health issues with experts in the field. It’s honest talk from people who have been there and know their stuff. No shame, no stigma, and maybe a few laughs.

Like this podcast? Then you’ll love John’s book, The Hilarious World of Depression.

Logo by Clarissa Hernandez.

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How to listen

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