TRANSCRIPT Bullseye with Jesse Thorn: Hardcore Punk band Trash Talk

Trash Talk got their start playing DIY venues in Northern California more than a decade ago. They’ve since gone on to play their energetic, cutting version of hardcore punk in front of crowds at music festivals like Coachella and Camp Flog Gnaw. The music they play is fast. It’s loud. Very aggressive. Think along the lines of Black Flag or Suicidal Tendencies with a bit of thrash metal thrown in. Jordan Morris chats with bassist Spencer Pollard, singer Lee Spielman and guitarist Garrett Stevenson of Trash Talk. They talk about their new EP Squalor and what makes the crowds at the band’s shows so different from most punk shows. Trash Talk will be hitting the road once it’s safe to do so – but for now Squalor is perfect for a circle pit in your living room if you’re looking to let out any pent up rage during quarantine.

Guests: Spencer Pollard Lee Spielman Garrett Stevenson

Transcript

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Gentle, trilling music with a steady drumbeat plays under the dialogue.

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Speaker: Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of MaximumFun.org and is distributed by NPR. [Music fades out.]

jordan morris

I’m Jordan Morris. It’s Bullseye.

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“Huddle Formation” from the album Thunder, Lightning, Strike by The Go! Team. A fast, upbeat, peppy song. Music plays as Jordan speaks, then fades out.

jordan

Trash Talk is a hardcore punk band. Think Black Flag or Suicidal Tendencies and you’re starting to get the idea. If you read a profile of the band, odds are the writer will let you know that Trash Talk is your favorite rapper’s favorite punk band. So, what does that mean? Well, there’s the label they recorded on, for one. Odd Future. The same place that was home to Tyler the Creator, The Internet, and others. They’ve also toured with rappers like Action Bronson and they collaborate with producers who normally work in hip-hop. So, at any given Trash Talk show, you’ll see a bunch of hardcore kids in the crowd, but also some Action Bronson fans, and a few Odd Future fans, too. A lot of hardcore bands talk a big game about unity and togetherness, but Trash Talk practices it. Their newest release is an EP called Squalor, and the whole thing is produced by Kenny Beats, another guy who usually works in hip-hop. It’s a really exciting record. Let’s take a listen to a track off it. It’s called “Something Wicked”.

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“Something Wicked” from the album Squalor by Trash Talk. New, new attitude But it’s a shame, better than being Silent be Something wicked this way stumbles No more speaking, distant mumbles Dumb, don’t have a clue How to cope, what to do, it’s something Something wicked this way stumbles No more speaking, distant mumbles Now you flirt with disaster [Music fades out at Jordan speaks.]

jordan

I am here with Spencer, Garrett, and Lee from Trash Talk. Trash Talk, welcome to Bullseye.

spencer

Thank you.

lee

What’s gooood!?

garrett

Yeah, yeah.

jordan

When was the first time you guys encountered the, kind of, punk and hardcore music that Trash Talk plays? Garrett, I’ll start with you.

garrett

Aw, man. My dad kind of got me into punk, in like a weird, roundabout way. Growing up in the Bay Area, you know. A lot of different artists and people in the community would come to see him at his restaurant. One of those dudes is like, Tim Armstrong. You know? Rancid, Green Day, like all these bands from the area would come through. So, my dad always kind of told me to keep my ear to that kind of music.

jordan

Yeah, this was probably like mid-90s, when all the Gilman Street bands were kind of starting to get big.

garrett

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then one day he kind of—just to kind of get me away from hanging out in the streets, he kind of had told me—took me over to Gilman and was like, “Hey, man, check this spot out.” I kind of was told it was a cool spot. And that’s when I first started really kind of going to shows. And then kind of through there I wind up meeting Lee, who kind of delved me a little bit deeper into a more, like, focused appreciation of punk rock and hardcore. And then I kind of went from there.

jordan

Yeah. Spencer, how about you? What was your first encounter with, you know, punk hardcore type music?

spencer

For me, it was probably, like, sixth/seventh grade? I remember when I was a fifth grader, I went to my parents’ high school reunion—like a picnic type thing. And of course, being a kid, I had no—wanted no part of that. But I— [Jordan chuckles.] One of their friends had a son that was a few years older than me, and we had a—you know, it was the ‘90s, so we had our little CD booklets and we were comparing which CD singles and which CDs we had. And he and I both had a Quad City DJ’s—the train single—and a Jimi Hendrix CD. And so, he—I was like, “Oh, he likes the same music I listen to.” And then he kind of had some punk rock compilations in there and I kind of started looking at some of the stuff. Like the Cinema Beer Nuts or—I don’t recall which comp it was, exactly, but from there I was like, “Oh, let me start picking these things up, because if he likes what I like, I’ll probably like this.”

jordan

Yeah. Fat Music for Fat People, maybe?

spencer

That one I—I actually think I got that one a little bit later, once I was, like, fully into skateboarding. Like, when I was maybe eighth grade? But definitely along those—along those lines. The Fat Records comps, the—and then, even from there, I kind of started picking up, like, the—some Pessimiser type stuff and, like, the—some of the harder stuff, just ‘cause it was the complications and I was like, “You know, I can listen to 60 bands for $3 and see what I like out of here.”

jordan

Uh, yeah. Lee, how about you? What was the—what was your first experience with punk type music?

lee

Um, I feel like when I was—I don’t know, in middle school? I kind of—I remember distinctively, like, making playlists of any song that my favorite skateboarders would skate to, you know? I would take, like, whatever—like, whether it be, like, a Baker video or Alien Workshop video or Girl video. And, like, it’s kind of one of those things where you would listen to music and then feel like you’re that skater for a second, you know? It’s like if I’m listening to what Andrew Reynolds is skating to, then maybe I’ll skate like Andrew Reynolds. But it was—so, it was kind of like—I feel like skate videos and stuff kind of led me into that, and then… distinctively remember a friend of mine named Jason, who I went to middle school with. I bounced around a couple middle schools, getting kicked out. And then I ended up having to go to a school that I had to take the bus kind of far away to go to, ‘cause it was one of those, like, only schools that will accept me in the district type joints. And I remember seeing this kid who was always just like—he looked like he was into the same [censored] as me, whether that be, like, skating or whatever. And he was always listening to [censored] and always kind of, like, extra amped up at, like, 5:30/6 in the morning, that we had to wake up to catch the bus. [Jordan laughs.] So, through him, like, he was—I remember asking him what he was listening to and he’s listening to, like, the Bad Brains and Minor Threat and all these, like, entry level, gateway bands. And then through Jason, I kind of got, like, deeper into the actual scene where I was from. ‘Cause I remember being like, “Well, where does this—where does this type of music happen?” You know? Like, “Where can I see this? Or is there, like, new stuff? Can I see it?” And then from there, he like led me and pointed me towards venues and local bands and, like, just bands that are—were current, you know? ‘Cause it’s like, yeah, we could listen to, like, all the Bad Brains and Black Flag we want, but we can’t really, like, feel or experience that. So, through him, like, singlehandedly, he kind of like opened up my whole brain as far as, like—even deeper than the music. Just, like, where to find it. Where the community existed. Like, where shows happened. All that. You know?

jordan

Yeah. Let’s—this is a good segue to start talking about the first time you guys got out to see live music. And you mentioned Gilman Street—a, you know, kind of famous, all ages, kind of DIY venue in Berkley. Yeah! I’d love to hear about some of the first time you went off to see, like, music that was your taste rather than something your, you know, parents dragged you to. Garrett, let’s start with you.

garrett

Oh man. I don’t know. One of my—one of my first shows, I feel like, at Gilman, probably, was… either, like, an All Bets Off show or—I think that’s what it was. You know? And I remember it pretty fondly because I just felt kind of out of place. Like, I think I had, like, a du-rag and, like, a Throwback jersey on or something. [Jordan chuckles.] I didn’t really understand what I was at, but I was just going ‘cause my pops told me to go there, you know. And—but I remember, like, almost immediately just, like, kind of like—kind of being embraced by kids around me and meeting friends and leaving that place feeling like, “Man, I gotta be here for the next show. I’ve gotta be here for the next experience.” You know? That’s something that I really appreciate, kind of, about going to shows and the scene, in that way. ‘Cause that kind of how—that’s how I met, Lee. You know? That’s how I met Spencer. It just, like—everybody kind of came together and became homies, you know, just through being in the same room. You know.

spencer

Yeah, absolutely. Like my first show I went to was with a couple of buddies of mine, and I hadn’t been into punk rock for too long, or, like, super into it for too long. And there was this venue in Bakersfield called Jerry’s Pizza that’s been around for a while and it’s still there—though it just changed ownership recently. And I remember walking downstairs, and it was some—some boy band was playing—and seeing a bunch of skinheads and being, like, really freaked out. ‘Cause I knew that there was—I knew about skinheads, but being from Bakersfield, the contingency—or, [stammering] the contingencial but more conservative, jut politically. So, I was expecting to walk into a bunch of Hammerskins. And I was instantly just, like, kind of psyched out and scared until I realized that this one dude—who actually, he’s still around. This dude Keith—had a anti-swastika tattoo on his chest. And I was like, “Oh, these are—and these are good—these are good skins.” And from then on it was kind of like a—always a, you know, inclusive type deal. And never felt like I was put out anywhere, in there. [Music fades in.] But that was, like, the first—my first experience with the—with the show.

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“Blossom & Burn” by Trash Talk. Trash Talk in the black hawk This the shit that make all the kids pull the gat out While they blast off, go ahead and grab the chainsaw And take your castoff with your mask off [Music fades out under the dialogue.]

jordan

Talk about going from being, you know, fans who went to a bunch of local shows to guys who started a band yourself. What was the first discussion like, you know, about, “Hey we should form a band”?

spencer

I mean, for me, it was pretty instantaneous. I mean, after that first show—we were going to shows, you know, every Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If our parents would let us—you know—Wednesday, Thursday, any night of the week. And pretty much right after that it was like, “Dude, we gotta start a band.” And from there—I mean, this was years before I met Lee and Garrett. And I just kind of started playing right away. So, it was just—it was pretty instantaneous, for me.

jordan

So, you guys all live in LA, now. Right? Yeah. I’d love to hear about the decision to make LA your home base.

lee

Garrett lives in Australia. [Garrett chuckles.]

spencer

Yeah, Garrett’s in Australia, now. [Jordan laughs.] But when we did move here, it was—it was an opportunity for to kind of all live in the same place. ‘Cause we’d been pretty scattered. Like, when the band first started, I was moving back from Washington and lived in Bakersfield, at the time, and was traveling up pretty much every weekend to practice and write and play shows and stuff. And Garrett and Lee both lived in separate homes. We lived in Washington—Seattle, for a while, together. Lee and I lived together, and Garrett lived in a separate spot. So, coming to LA, it was kind of an opportunity for us to all be in the same unit and kind of create around the clock and all be, kind of, together. So, that was kind of the basis behind that.

lee

In those early days, we toured so much that it didn’t really feel like we lived anywhere specifically. [Spencer hums in agreement.] It was just kind of like, “We live in a van and we live wherever. Wherever we end up, that night.” But I think, coming to LA specifically was the first time that we were like, “Yo, let’s build our own… clubhouse type thing, where we could, like—this is where we ship our merch out of. This is where we make designs. This is where we make music. This is where we skate. This is where everything happens, under this one roof.” And it was—‘cause we moved around together, for a while. Like, we lived in the Northwest and then we got, like, stuck on the East Coast. And then there was, like, a time right before LA where we just—we got an apartment together, in London. And we’re like, “Oh, we’re just gonna be here and play shows in the UK and play shows in Europe.” And then after that was all done—I think we were coming home from a tour or something? I can’t remember. Or coming home from Europe? And we were like, "Let’s move into a [censored] warehouse.” And I think Garrett just… looked one up on Craigslist and rented it?

jordan

[Chuckling.] What was—wait, what was it like living in a warehouse?

spencer

It was sick! [Lee laughs weakly.]

garrett

It was dope.

spencer

It was advertised as a live/work space and ultimately it wasn’t a live space. [Jordan cackles.]

lee

The area that we lived in… wasn’t necessarily an area that you would—this is, like, before warehouses were all the rage and like, “Yo! Let’s live at, like, a cool loft! With, like, exposed bricks!” This was like, “Across the way they’re selling clothes, and we just happen to live in this thing with a rolldown that leads into an alley and it’s [censored] dusty.” But! With that place, we were able to kind of make our own… clubhouse, with whatever the [censored] we wanted to do. Whether it’s like cover the walls in our friend’s graffiti or build a studio or, we—like. [Music fades in.] Just like a place where would make all of our little kid dreams, like, one place. You know?

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“Awake” by Trash Talk And makes a living off of killing the living one at a time I am your hammer and sickle I am your ball and chain I am your brain on drugs (on drugs) [Music fades out under the dialogue.]

jordan

Do you think there’s something about Trash Talk in particular that draws in kids that you might not expect to see at a punk show?

spencer

If you look at Trash Talk as a—as a person that’s not necessarily into hardcore or into punk or even, at a greater level, you know—into crossover thrash, whatever? You can look at Trash Talk and potentially identify with something else, whether it’s—you’re looking at—looking at somebody, you know—when I was a kid? When I was, you know, 13 years old and I saw a picture of the Bad Brains before I knew what they sounded like, I saw four dudes that looked more like me than any of these other bands, and I was like, “Whatever this sounds like, I’m gonna check it out.” And I feel that there’s a bit of that that’s going on.

garrett

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a huge thing. Like, you know, even when I first started getting into punk and I stared really enjoying it and stuff, I stumbled upon Bad Brains probably later—you know. And I always kind of figured, like, “Why is there not, like, more of a representation of people that look like me?” You know what I mean? So, when it was time for us to, like, make our band and all that, I always thought that at was dope, you know. And I think that that relates to a lot of people, too, from different backgrounds and different walks of life.

jordan

Yeah! I’d love to talk about your guys’ new EP, Squalor. So, it is out now. It was supposed to be out a little bit earlier this month, but you guys decided to delay the release, because it was—you know—so close to, you know, all the stuff going on around Black Lives Matter. Yeah, talk about the decision to delay the release and if that was a tough conversation to have.

spencer

It wasn’t a tough conversation to have. It’s a bit of an—of a time to navigate for a lot of people, but for us it was just, you know, you wanna just kind of take a way some of the static so people can understand what’s going on. But at the same time, we—you do—you don’t wanna be a distraction, but you also don’t wanna quiet yourselves. You don’t want to mute yourselves, either.

garrett

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I thought—I definitely thought it was important to just, like, let—kind of let things breathe and let people pay attention to what’s actually going on, you know? There’s a lot of—lot of noise in the world, right now, you know. And all. You know. It’s good to hone in and lock in on what’s important and for us, at the time, it just—it kind of—music wasn’t the most important thing. So.

jordan

Squalor you guys made with producer Kenny Beats, who is mainly known for being a hip-hop producer. Talk about how you got in touch with him and why you thought he was the right guy for the job.

lee

Kenny’s just a friend that we’ve known through LA and music and he’s on his wild producer tip, where he wants to spread his wings and touch this genre and touch this genre and, like, show people that—in the same way that we feel where it’s like, “It doesn’t need to be one style, specific.” You know? Like, he can make a [censored] punk, hardcore record. He can make, like, crazy rap and then he can go work with Dominic Fike or Omar Apollo and just, like, showing the versatility. And I feel like, as far as working with a producer who’s able to capture that, Kenny’s the perfect—perfect person for it, ‘cause he kind of—he knows that things don’t really need to be so boxed in all the time. You know?

garrett

Yeah, for sure. And you know, and Kenny just—Kenny’s, like, just a dope musician as well. You know what I mean? And, like, that’s really tight, man, to be able to, like—be able to hand somebody a guitar and, like, they tell you what—tell you what they’re saying. You know? What they’re thinking. You know. That’s something I really admire about Kenny, for sure.

spencer

Yeah, for sure. He appreciates music across the board, and it was—it was cool to have someone with some legit input. Like, “Oh! I see what—” Like, he understood what we were doing when we were making a part. And like, it was really—it was unique. So, the experience was awesome. We’d love to work with him again.

jordan

Yeah, can you touch on a particular moment in the album or a particular song where you changed something substantial because of his input?

spencer

It wasn’t anything really like structurally that was changed. It would be more… Kenny’s production on it was more creating a—like a soundscape. Creating dynamics within the music.

jordan

I think, unlike most punk records that you would put on, it kind of flows from song to song. There’s kind of connective tissue that kind of blends the songs in a way that you don’t usually hear on that kind of record. Is that his influence or is that something you guys wanted, going in?

lee

I think that’s, like, him sprinkling a little bit of Kenny in. You know? [Music fades in.] And tying it together.

spencer

Yeah, he did some beats. There’s some beats in there with—sampled from the stems of the tracks that were—that are on the record.

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[Music fades out under dialogue.]

jordan

You have worked with other hip-hop producers, in the past. But also, you know, Joe B Ford and Steve Albini. Like, Joe B is from the—from the Bronx. Steve Albini is from Steve Albini. Yeah. Did you notice a difference, working with someone who does mainly hip-hop, versus these guys who do mainly rock music?

spencer

I think that it’s been a lot different. You know, like the Steve Albini kind of production style is very just, like, let you do your thing. You know? Kind of a hands-off type stuff. Which I thought was really rad. You know. And it comes across in this—in the records. You know.

garrett

Yeah, it’s very raw.

spencer

With a lot of, like, the hip-hop guys, you know. It’s a… like, with Alchemist and stuff, it’s something that we kind of did post the creating process. You know? We sat in a studio and we made parts, you know, with stuff that was already created. But it’s just like a completely different kind of input. But with Kenny, you know what I mean, we did both the creative and the after part, you know? We did it all kind of together. Yeah. Little bit—little bit different each time.

jordan

We’ll wrap up with Trash Talk after a short break. Stay with us. It’s Bullseye, from MaximumFun.org and NPR.

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Twangy, sci-fi western sounding music.

jordan

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jordan

Welcome back to Bullseye. I’m Jordan Morris, in for Jesse Thorn. My guests are Garrett Stevenson, Spencer Pollard, and Lee Spielman, members of Trash Talk. The hardcore band has a new record out. It’s an EP called Squalor. You can buy it or stream it now. Let’s get back to the conversation. I’d love to talk more about the lyrics of your guys’ songs. I think I would describe your guys’, like, interpersonal vibe as very chill. You’re very chill dudes. But the lyrics are not always chill. In the song “Something Wicked” that we played at the top of this interview, there’s a refrain where you say, “I commit to total warfare.” Which is uh, super intense!

spencer

It’s actually—the line is, “Argument through total warfare.” And it’s kind of a commentary that we can argue—like, you—we could talk all day long, but if fools aren’t talking and fools don’t wanna talk, then it’s just gonna—it’s futile. It don’t matter.

jordan

Yeah! I’d love to hear more about what inspired that song. Where did the—where did the idea for that idea start?

spencer

Uh, so, “Something Wicked” actually, it’s—strangely enough, one of the working titles for this song was “Bootlicker”. And it kind of—it started out—it’s—like, a lot our songs are, they’re not necessarily about specific situations or things. It’s kind of a concept that applies to multiple situations. But this one is a… it’s definitely—there’s almost no [chuckles]—there’s kind of no… no grey area in that.

jordan

I feel like there’s a lot of early Trash Talk songs that are about, like, being bored and feeling kind of numb. But it seems like there are more recent Trash Talk songs that are about kind of, like, springing into action. Is that something you guys feel like personally? Do you guys feel more motivated to say something with music?

spencer

I mean there’s always been a running theme of, “Stand up to the oppression, fight back,” within the lyrics. But it’s now becoming more—they’re less ambiguous than they used to be. It’s… it’s a little less in, like, a fantasy world and a little bit more street level, now.

jordan

There’s a Trash Talk song I’m thinking of—an earlier Trash Talk song—where you kind of, like, describe a corpse that’s, like, being eaten by rats or maybe it’s, like—

spencer

Yeah, “Passersby lay sucking on a dead man’s skin.” Yeah. It was a lot—that was like a real post-apocalypse—like, that’s what—a lot of the early lyrics was post-apocalypse. [Music fades in.] It’s like—it’s basically the trajectory we were going towards. Like, it’s just a wasteland. Like, it’s—it was really bleak. But, you know, now it’s less about the abyss. It’s more about what you can see and what you can actually do.

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“East of Eden” by Trash Talk. Open your eyes, the surface swells with blinding light The ash the once consumed has given way to waking life No lust for power. No man is king This world survived the fall of man until I ruined everything Just east of Eden a failing god crawls up and dies [Music fades out under dialogue.]

jordan

What drew you to that kind of, like, intense, heavy metal imagery? What—yeah. What made that a go-to for, you know, a way to write songs?

spencer

A lot of the stuff I was listening to, a lot of the stuff I was reading, like, a lot of stuff I was interested in writing was kind of, like, more on that basis. It’s fun to write about stuff like that when you’re, you know, 19 years old. [Garrett chuckles.] But, you know, as you get older, it becomes more fun to kind of see how people will relate to what you’re writing and how—you know, how you can express yourself in such a—like, in a less nihilistic way. In a less—in a less, like, you know, “Screw everything, like, everything’s bleak. Everything’s death.” Things aren’t as black and white as they used to be.

jordan

What is it like when you guys talk to, you know, teenage Trash Talk fans? Are there Trash Talk tattoos? Have people told you, you know, “Trash Talk saved my life?” What is like talking to kids who you, you know, kind of were, 10 or 15 years ago?

spencer

Yeah, there’s definitely been a mix of both of that. It’s awesome. It’s great to be a band and to be something that people are looking to the way that I looked at other bands—like when I was a kid. You know, things that—anywhere from, “You know, that song was sick!” Or to, “I was in a really dark place and this helped me out.” Or, you know, whatever. It’s all—it’s all love. It’s all great.

garrett

Also, man, like more than—more than just kids. Like, you know, like—there’s a lot of people that we had grown with, you know, as—that were younger when we started. You know. And now are just, like, grown men and have to have their own different things going on. You know what I mean? And like, we’ve always still been able to connect with music. You know? And, like, it’s—that’s, like, a really, really cool thing to me, that people could grow with the band. You know.

jordan

Well, this is Trash Talk! Trash Talk, thanks for coming on Bullseye.

spencer

Thank you.

lee

I appreciate the—

garrett

Stay safe, man.

jordan

Trash Talk, folks! Garrett Stevenson, Spencer Pollard, and Lee Spielman. Their latest release is called Squalor. It’s available to buy or stream, now. They’ll be hitting the road on tour whenever… you know, it’s safe for bands to tour again.

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Light, chiming music.

jordan

That’s the end of another episode of Bullseye. Bullseye is produced out of the homes of me and the staff of Maximum Fun, in and around greater Los Angeles—where producer Kevin Ferguson made a drink called a “shrub” out of some extra beets he had lying around. He says it tastes great when paired with sparkling water. His wife says it tastes like salad dressing. But hey! If you enjoyed my talking, on Bullseye, why not try Jordan, Jesse, Go!? It’s a comedy podcast with me and the usual host of this show, Jesse Thorn. We have on great guests, every week, and just make them participate in nonsensical nonsense. It’s very dumb and a ton of fun and I think you’ll like it. Jordan, Jesse, Go!, wherever you get your podcasts. Bullseye is produced by speaking into microphones. Our producer is Kevin Ferguson. Jesus Ambrosio and Jordan Kauwling are our associate producers. We also get help from Casey O’Brien. Our interstitial music is by Dan Wally, also known as DJW. Out theme song is by The Go! Team. Thanks to them and their label—thanks to them and their label, Memphis Industries, for letting us use it. You can keep up with the show on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. Just search for Bullseye with Jesse Thorn. And I guess that’s about it! Just remember: all great radio hosts have a signature sign off.

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About the show

Bullseye is a celebration of the best of arts and culture in public radio form. Host Jesse Thorn sifts the wheat from the chaff to bring you in-depth interviews with the most revered and revolutionary minds in our culture.

Bullseye has been featured in Time, The New York Times, GQ and McSweeney’s, which called it “the kind of show people listen to in a more perfect world.” Since April 2013, the show has been distributed by NPR.

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