Transcript
music
Gentle, trilling music with a steady drumbeat plays under the dialogue.
promo
Speaker: Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of MaximumFun.org and is distributed by NPR. [Music fades out.]
music
“Huddle Formation” from the album Thunder, Lightning, Strike by The Go! Team. A fast, upbeat, peppy song. Music plays as Jesse speaks, then fades out.
jesse thorn
It’s Bullseye. I’m Jesse Thorn. Kyle MacLachlan is our guest. He’s being interviewed by Bullseye’s producer, Kevin Ferguson. Kyle has had a really interesting career. He broke into showbiz just after college. He was acting in a few local plays and then, boom! He gets his first ever audition for a part in a movie. Not just any part in a movie: the lead role in Dune—a big budget, super anticipated, sci-fi drama. And then he got the part. But then the movie didn’t do so great. It’s a box office flop, the critics didn’t like it, and it was from the ruins of Dune that he forged a working relationship with that film’s director, David Lynch. He eventually got the lead role in Lynch’s Blue Velvet—one of the greatest films of all time. [Music ends.] Then int 1989, he was cast as Special Agent Dale Cooper, the star of the Lynch’s iconic TV show, Twin Peaks.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
clip
Music: Mysterious, mood setting music. Dale Cooper (Twin Peaks): Diane, 11:30AM, February 24th. Entering the town of Twin Peaks, 5 miles south of the Canadian border, 12 miles west of the state line. I’ve never seen so many trees in my life.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
jesse
If you name the type of character Kyle plays most often, it’s usually a charming, confident guy—sometimes a little goofy. Like the mayor on Portlandia or Orson on Desperate Housewives. And it’s not far off from his personality in real life. He is charming, confident, and kind of goofy. His latest movie is called Tesla. It’s directed by the cult filmmaker, Michael Almereyda. Tesla tells the story of Nikola Tesla, the inventor and engineer who pioneered the advancement of alternating current electricity—meaning you can thank him for, among other things, this show. And whatever electrical thing you’re using to listen to it with. It’s a weird kind of ethereal movie. Most of the scenes take place in dimly lit rooms. The characters are subdued and haunted. Every now and then, they’ll break the fourth wall to tell you something about what happens when you search the internet for Tesla’s name. Tesla is played by Ethan Hawke. Kyle MacLachlan—our guest—plays Thomas Edison, Tesla’s former employer and chief rival. The scene we’re about to hear is set at the 1893 World’s Fair, in Chicago. Tesla and Edison are both there showing off their work. And the two inventors have just sat down at a restaurant to meet.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
clip
[The dialogue is punctuated by the clink of silverware and the sounds of eating.] Thomas Edison (Tesla): I took the liberty, ordered for us both. An American meal. Pie. So, you’ve been to my exhibition. The tower. The Edison Column. 18,000 bulbs, literally, surrounded by 25,000 different types of Edison lamps. Go ahead, it’s fresh. Nikola Tesla: No. I’m an American, now. Full-fledged citizen. Edison: Yes, yes, of course you are. Of course. As I was saying, they really don’t display Edison Dynamos, flatirons, sewing machine motors, dining room fans, elevators. Tesla: I like the dolls. Edison: The dolls! Tesla: Very amusing. Edison: Hmm. The talking dolls. We rushed it and it’s not perfect. Kinetoscope, moving pictures, everybody will like that. I invited you. Here you are. Tesla, it’s plain as day. This entire World’s Fair is lit and powered by alternating current. Westinghouse machines, your design. I was wrong about alternating current. And I was wrong about you.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
kevin ferguson
Kyle MacLachlan! Welcome to Bullseye!
kyle maclachlan
Hi, Kevin. How are you?
kevin
Right after that scene, a narrator steps in to tell us that that conversation never happened.
kyle
[Chuckles.] Yeah. Sadly.
kevin
That kind of sets the tone for Tesla. [Kyle affirms.] Like, it’s not a movie that’s necessarily about portraying history exactly as it happened, on the record. But, like, studying these characters more and getting to more of an emotional truth. And I guess my first question is: does that inform, like, your preparation for a film like this? You know. You’re not playing—you are playing a real person, but realism I guess isn’t necessarily the goal. Right?
kyle
Realism in the portrayal of course. Factual—as much as we could take from books and—there actually are some film of Edison in his workshop, moving from space to space. And you could—I got to—I would watch his physicality. But so much of the work that I did for Edison and I think Ethan as well, for Tesla, was reading what we knew and then sort of letting it marinate, I guess. A little bit. And trying to create the emotional life, the mental life, the body of the person, as if you were there. So, we’d ask, “What am I doing? Why? What am I feeling? Where are we? Where’s my focus? What might I say, in this environment—in this situation?” And that’s where the creation of the character begins, is you have—you just have to use your imagination and put yourself into that. Almost put yourself into the skin, which I tried to do, of Edison. And understand what drove him and what motivated him. And out of that comes, I think, a better understanding of why he was doing something when he did it. So, the scene that we just heard—where he’s talking with Tesla—as you said, was a made up scene, but quite possibly he had—Edison had those thoughts, recognized what he was saying, and was able to say them to Tesla. Which is the big question, and whether he would have even [chuckles] had the—not the courage, necessarily, but the ability to admit that… what had happened was a failure.
kevin
There’s a scene early on in the film when you—as Thomas Edison—and Ethan Hawke—as Tesla—kind of get into an ice cream food fight. [They laugh.]
kyle
Yes. And, you know, as an actor when you read that from the script you’re like, “Oh—" First of all, it’s like, “Oh, that’s gonna be really fun.”
kevin
So, you’re saying it wasn’t improvised, then.
kyle
No! It was—it was there. And then you’re also wanting to make sure that it—that it works, in the way that it’s intended. You know. Which is obviously a funny stepping away from the reality for a moment. Almost a slapstick kind of comedic interchange between them showing how both men kind of maintain their composure, but at the same time are driven to one-up each other in this little comic interlude, I guess. And the other side is, as an actor you’re like, “Okay.” You recognize that this is really a visual, rhythmic gag and in order for it to work, it has to be played a certain way—very dedicatedly and very seriously. It’s one of the great things of working with Ethan. He understands that, as well. There was no explanation necessary, really. We both recognized what we needed to do to make the scene work. And, as an actor, that’s just—that’s part of the fun of the play that goes on when you’re in front of the camera.
kevin
You grew up in Yakima, Washington. Right?
kyle
Mm-hm. I did.
kevin
I’ve never been there. Tell me about it.
kyle
[Chuckles.] It is a larger town or… almost a small city, located in the central part of Washington state—southern central part of Washington state. It’s considered to be on the east side. There’s a range of mountains called the Cascades that separate the west side, which is the green side, let’s say. Seattle and Tacoma and Bellingham and all those cities over there, Olympic National Forest. And then the Cascade Mountains. And then on the west—on the east side, you have the smaller towns and it’s the farming region. It’s—everything grows there. There’s huge ranches, orchard ranches. Fruit trees and wheat fields and it’s very little moisture. And it’s where I came, actually, when I started to make wine. I have a wine business. That’s where I started. And—in 2005. Turns out it’s an excellent region for growing grapes as well, because—as I said—you can control the moisture. The growing up part was, I would say, fairly average. You know. Uh. Grew up with two brothers. You know. A stay at home mom, for the most part. Father was—worked as a—as a stockbroker. And just had kind of an idyllic little childhood, really. Running around on our bikes, shooting BB guns. [Laughs.] And then found my way to Seattle to go to school at the University of Washington. So, I spent the first, you know, 20+ years, really, in Washington state.
kevin
When did you realize that acting was something you could do, as a career?
kyle
Ah. Wasn’t until I was a little older. I say that and I actually don’t really think I had a realization that I could have a career. I knew that I—[chuckles] I knew I was pretty good at it, in high school. And that continued into college. But it wasn’t something that I was actually… studying. Or let’s say, I intended to study, in college. College was meant to be the time when you got serious about your life and your career and you had to find something professional to do. The trouble was, I wasn’t really good at anything else, except for acting. [They chuckle.] So, that’s’ kind of where I landed. And I was happiest there. And I loved the creative process and I was lucky, because when I went to school at the University of Washington with no intention to study acting, turns out there was actually a really, really good training program there. A three-year repertory theatre training program. And I noticed it immediately and was driven to audition and got accepted into this program. So, 13 people were accepted into this three-year acting program and I was one of them! And so, I really went through very rigorous training and came out the other side and immediately went to work. I started working at the Shakespeare festival in Ashland. And I think probably about that time, I realized that I could maybe make a living—I don’t think I thought of it as a career, but I thought, “Well, I… I could make enough money to survive. My parents don’t seem to mind. They don’t—they’re happy that I’m making money and not asking them for money.” And I loved it. And so, I just let my passion and naivete, actually, carry me forward.
kevin
So, your first ever role onscreen was Dune. Is that right?
kyle
Yes. I’d never been in front of the camera before. As I watch the movie, I can certainly [laughs] see that. I’m a pretty harsh critic of myself, but—
kevin
Well, that’s one of the things I was wondering is that, like, first off—that was also your first ever audition for something onscreen, too. Right? [Kyle confirms.] So, you get it in one. It’s a—not a small indie flick, it’s a major motion picture and I guess you have to—I’m not an actor, but I know that being in frame is a lot more important on a movie set than it is on the stage. There are marks. Did you know anything about that or, like—what was the learning curve, I guess?
kyle
Well, it was complete. I had no idea about marks, as you said. Or different lenses or continuity. I had a wonderfully patient mentor, in David Lynch. So, I started—out of the gate, I was—you know, I was a few steps ahead, just because of his help. I also was a huge fan of the books, from when I was 15. I mean, I knew the books backward and forward. The book, I should say. Just Dune, backwards and forwards. Although Dune Messiah and Children of Dune I was pretty familiar with, too. So, I was a huge fan. And it was sort of strange that somehow I ended up in the role, I thought. [Kevin chuckles.] Although Stephen Colbert also said he was a huge fan of Dune and felt he could have done a very good Paul as well. So. [They laugh.] We can have a Paul-Off now, especially with Timothée involved with the new one. Kind of trying to figure out—figure it out as I went. And I—we weren’t allowed to watch the footage, the dailies they called them of the footage as they would come back. So, I was really working in a vacuum. I had no idea. And that was intentional on David’s part. He didn’t want anyone to see, anyone—just to watch their performance, because he doesn’t—he didn’t want anyone to sort of subtly start to change and shift things. But I remember it being just an extraordinary time, an amazing experience. You can imagine being—I say I wasn’t plucked from relatively obscurity, I was plucked from complete obscurity. And I found myself in Mexico City working with extraordinary actors, one of whom I had just seen a few months before in Das Boot, and he turned out to play my father—Jürgen Prochnow. So, you could imagine as I’m in school, watching this movie, Das Boot, and then suddenly I’m acting alongside the man who I was—you know—completely admiring as the captain. I was—it was very strange.
kevin
Yeah. Dune didn’t do great in the box office. The critics didn’t receive it really well, either. And I wonder, like, what lessons that taught you and what you did to cope with that? ‘Cause I—you know, that’s gotta be really tough, right?
kyle
It… somehow didn’t have that much of an impact on me. It certainly changed what I needed to do, but… we filmed Dune and then I had a—contractually, I was not able to do anything else until the movie actually came out in theaters. So, I had about a year and half to just kind of mess around. So, I went back and did a play and I traveled a little bit. I did not come to Los Angeles. I just—because part of the situation was that I had five Dune pictures that I was obligated to do. [Kevin makes a sound of surprise.] According to the contract. So, I was signed up for the next Dune and the next Dune and all that and so, we were just gonna kind of roll right through it. Kind of a bit like Harry Potter, I would imagine. So, when the—when the word came out—and I wasn’t even really conscious of box office—what was happening. I was kind of enjoying my life, back up in Seattle, and figured we’d just get to work on the next one when we did. And then when I got a call from my agent [laughing] saying, “Well, looks like they’re not gonna go forward with the Dune pictures. And then, by the way, the first one didn’t do so well. You better come down to Los Angeles.” I was just like, “Okay!” So, I hopped in my Jeep and packed up and drove down. Bit like the Beverly Hillbillies, I guess. And came into Los Angeles and I found a place and started from the beginning. I had—I had an agent, which was great. And I had some of he trappings that come with that. But no prospects. So, I started to—started back again and didn’t fare well, actually, very well until David Lynch reached out to me to do Blue Velvet. Which was an amazing thing for him to do, because—I mean, although we worked together and were friends and then we had a great time, he could easily have said, “You know what, you… you didn’t open this movie and… you know, so I’m not gonna hire you again.” But he felt that I was the right character or the right person to play the role of Jeffrey Beaumont, in Blue Velvet. And that’s how we—how it moved. And Blue Velvet—we started—it was about two years from the wrap of Dune until the—we started working on Blue Velvet.
kevin
If it’s alright with you, I’d like to play a clip from Twin Peaks. [Kyle affirms.] This is the scene that, I think, the first time I watched Twin Peaks—I’m 34 now, I was like 20—this is the scene where you, playing Special Agent Dale Cooper, of course, and… you’re in a diner. The Double R Diner, with Sheriff Truman and Sheriff Truman is in a bit of a rush and you give him some timeless advice. [Kyle laughs.]
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
clip
[The sounds of a bustling diner—muted conversations, the clink of silverware.] Dale: Harry? I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don’t plan it. Don’t wait for it. Just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men’s store, a cat nap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. [Whispering.] Like this. Sheriff Truman: [Softly.] A present. Like Christmas. Dale: [With quiet reverence.] Oooh, man. That hits the spot.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
kyle
[They chuckle.] It’s nice to hear Mike Ontkean’s voice.
kevin
Yeah. When you first heard about Twin Peaks, was the pitch like, “This will be a cop show and by, like, two or three episodes in, you’re gonna have a dream where everybody’s talking backwards.” [They chuckle.] “And we’re gonna put it on ABC.” Was it like that?
kyle
That was exact—yeah, that was exactly the pitch, Kevin. [Kevin giggles.] That was exactly what they said. “And Bob Iger’s gonna be a big fan!” Um. [Laughs.] Oh gosh. It was… I mean, it was really interesting. The first script—Northwest Passage is what it was originally called before they changed the title. And I think initially—I know—I know that David was always very keen on me playing Agent Cooper. And Mark Frost, who is co-creator, wanted to meet me. And so, he and I sat down and had a conversation and he was comfortable with me after that. And I really liked Mark. He’s terrific. And the idea was, we were gonna make—David Lynch was going to direct something for television. And that, I think more than anything, was what we all wanted to see, to experience that. [Kevin affirms.] Because it was such a—at that time—such an unusual, unexpected thing for him to do. And the idea that David Lynch was gonna be able to beam his vision—and I should say David and Mark, ‘cause they created it together—but he was gonna be able to beam this into people’s homes, just your average person [laughing] around the country. [They laugh.] What I think was just too compelling to ignore—and so we all signed on. Everybody joined in. We all had to sign, of course, the contracts for five and a half years and you’re gonna do all these, you know, they own you. Not one of us, I think, ever felt that it was going to go beyond just the one episode. Which they call it—which is called a backdoor pilot, meaning that they film a two hour—what’s basically a movie of the week, that’s what you called them, then—with the option to transform it and turn it into a pilot for a series, potential series. And I think we just kind of went into it. We shot it in 20+ days, 21, 24, something like that. A two hour, you know, movie of the week. And we had a great time up in Seattle. I love the character. I borrowed so much from David. A lot of the vernacular were—you know, it’s the rhythms and the pacing were things that I could hear David saying. I’m listening to the pitch of my voice, from what you played. It’s much higher. Much younger.
kevin
Yeeeah. I was about to mention that, too.
kyle
Yeah, it was like, [airy and high pitched] “Harry?” He was very much, like, up here. [Returning to his regular voice.] And so, you know, I was—I don’t know, I was in my late 20s, I guess. And I think people were not certain that he really was from the FBI, because he seemed kind of young and sort of naïve and—anyway. [Chuckles.] But it was really—it was an amazing experience and I—and I figured that—I think we all felt that it was just gonna kind of be one and done. And turns around, ABC kind of fell in love—fell in love with it. And they optioned more episodes. And we shot all of those before anything ever went onto television. So, we finished the first six or seven—seven, I think, roughly seven or eight shows and they held them and then they did a midseason release. [Kyle affirms.] And that—everything went crazy from there.
kevin
It’s funny ‘cause, like, I think you’re basically playing this, like, very—like, J. Edgar Hoover, ‘50s G-man role. [Kyle agrees.] And just being, like, kind of as if that person were teleported to, you know, 1989—is that right?
kyle
Yeah. ’89. Yeah. Yeah. He was—you know, he had a—he had so many layers, this character. But I loved that, at his core, he was—you know—a moral guy. He had tremendous empathy. He had a sense of humor. Very dry. That he… really related to people, even though he, himself, was very quirky. And, of course, had passions that were wonderful and unexpected and kind of off the wall. You know. Coffee and cherry pie. [Kevin agrees.] And you just felt, I think, comfortable with him and comforted by him. You know? Like, things were gonna be okay, because Dale Cooper’s on the case. You know? And I loved that. I loved, you know, living in that world.
jesse
We’ll wrap up with Kyle MacLachlan after the break. It’s Bullseye, from MaximumFun.org and NPR.
promo
Music: Sophisticated electronic/string music. Teresa McElroy: Shmanners. Noun. Definition: rules of etiquette designed not to judge others, but rather to guide ourselves through everyday social situations. [Music stops.] Travis McElroy: Hello, internet! I’m your husband host, Travis McElroy. Teresa: And I’m your wife host, Teresa McElroy. Travis: Every week on Shmanners, we take a look at a topic that has to do with society or manners. We talk about the history of it. We take a look at how it applies to everyday life. And we take some of your questions. And sometimes, we do a biography about a really cool person that had an impact on how we view etiquette. [Music fades back in.] Travis: So, join us every Friday and listen to Shmanners on MaximumFun.org, or wherever podcasts are found. Teresa: Manners shmanners. Get it? [Music ends on a bright chord.]
promo
Speaker: Our Up First team goes to work while you’re sleeping. That way, you wake up to the freshest take on the day’s news. It’s the 10-minute morning news podcast from NPR. Listen to Up First on the NPR One app or wherever you get your podcasts.
jesse
Welcome back to Bullseye. I’m Jesse Thorn. Our guest is Kyle MacLachlan. He, of course, played Dale Cooper in Twin Peaks and Twin Peaks: The Return. He has a new movie. It’s called Tesla. In it, he plays Thomas Edison, the rival and antagonist to Ethan Hawke’s Nikola Tesla. It’s out now, on demand. Let’s get back into Kyle’s conversation with our producer, Kevin Ferguson.
kevin
Okay, do you mind if we play something from Sex in the City, now? [Kevin affirms.] Just to tone shift?
kyle
Yeah. Totally. That’s the story of my career. [They laugh.]
kevin
So, in Sex in the City, my guest—Kyle MacLachlan—plays Trey MacDougal. He is the love interest and eventually marries Charlotte. And Charlotte’s of course played by Kristin Davis, on Sex in the City. And after they marry, you know… and as an—I’ll say it in as NPR friendly terms as I can, but they have an intimacy problem.
kyle
Mm-hm! That’s very good. That’s very NPR, on that. Very good. [They laugh.]
kevin
And the intimacy problem, you know, drives a wedge. Also, Trey has boundary issues with his mom. That’s beside the point, here. In this scene, Trey is working on his tennis serve to distract himself a little bit, after Charlotte went ahead and kissed the gardener. It’s the middle of the night and, you know, you are drenched in sweat and looking kind of jacked, if I’ll be honest.
kyle
[Laughs.] It’s amazing what—two things, a) the fear of being shirtless in a scene will make you do, in terms of visiting the gym and the copious amounts of baby oil that the—that the makeup gals were putting on me, quite happily. And I was like, “I think—I think this is too much.” And they were like, “No, no!” [They laugh.] And so, they kept putting this on and I was like, “I—okay! If you think so.” You know. [Laughs.]
kevin
Let’s take a listen.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
clip
[The dialogue is punctuated by the sounds of Trey grunting as he serves the ball.] Music: Maudlin music. Charlotte (Sex in the City): Trey, stooop. You’re upset and what I did was so wrong and I’m sorry. Trey: Well, what can I say? I’m apparently unable to meet your needs, so from time to time—as much as I detest it—I guess I’m just gonna have to look the other way! Charlotte: I don’t want a husband who looks the other way! I want a husband who takes me in his arms and makes me not wanna kiss the gardener! Trey: Charlotte, no marriage is perfect. And so much of what we have is wonderful. We can have separate lives and still be together. Totally acceptable.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
kyle
Aw. [Chuckles.]
kevin
Aw. Uh, we had Sarah Jessica Parker on the show a few years ago and when we talked with her about Sex in the City, she told us, like you know, she still mostly lives in New York and there are just simply some places that she can’t go, now. [Kyle hums in affirmation.] Like, you know, mostly on the Upper West Side—the Magnolia Bakery and all that. [They chuckle.] I’m wondering if that kind of thing happens with you, like—you know, if you’re walking down the street on—you know, in Manhattan. Do people stop you? And if so, are they more likely to recognize you from Twin Peaks or from a show like this?
kyle
Well, first of all, I’m happy to say I can go to the Magnolia Bakery, and do, when I’m in [laughing] New York City. Because—
kevin
They have a very nice banana pudding.
kyle
Oh my god, the banana pudding and the cupcakes. I’m afraid—I’m a simple man with simple needs. [Kevin laughs.] Because cupcakes are amazing. Anyway. I think, to a much lesser degree than what Sarah Jessica experiences—I… you know, as I’ve gotten older, my hair—hair’s gone white and I, you know, usually wear glasses and being recognized is—doesn’t happen that much. When it does, it’s a little bit—depending really on where I am. If I’m in New York, there’s a good chance it will be something from Sex in the City, because it’s such a beloved show there. Although, Twin Peaks is also, you know, something that people will recognize me for. And… you know, by and large people don’t—they don’t approach, they don’t come up and make a big thing. But they might, if I’m sitting somewhere, I might suddenly see a cup of coffee appear on my right hand and the waiter will say, “Oh, that person over there.” And then I’d sort of nod and give them a thumbs up and it’s very—it’s very sweet. People are—people are very kind. You know. For the most part, to not interfere or get in your way. But they do wanna acknowledge that. Which I love. And really, I think on social media is where—because I do support Twin Peaks. I do have little posts and things that I do from time to time and people seem to really get a kick out of them. You know, it’s—I’ve been without—with actors, other actors, that are very well known, and I watch kind of what happens to them, when they get into the crosshairs of a fan. And it’s frightening. It’s—I’m grateful that I don’t have to deal with that. But there’s something that overtakes people sometimes. And it’s inexplicable, really. They sort of [laughing] lose themselves. [Kevin agrees.] I will say that when I met Jimmy Page—Led Zeppelin—I probably was that fan. I probably [laughs] was exactly the same! I just—I was like, “Oh my god.” So, I appreciate it and I empathize with that kind of reaction. But fortunately, uh, I haven’t—I haven’t really had to deal with it.
kevin
So, a little while ago my wife and I got a—one of those robot vacuums that, you know—I’m avoiding saying the brand name.
kyle
Okay. Do they work? Is this something I should…? [Laughs.]
kevin
Um, if you have cats and shedding’s a problem, it does an excellent job. I’ll say that.
kyle
Okay, good to know.
kevin
And when you set it up, they ask you to give it a name. And we thought about it for a little bit and we ended up going with Dougie.
kyle
[Laughs.] Perfect name.
kevin
Because the thing just kind of mindlessly ambles about the living room and bumps into walls, as it’s trying to clean.
kyle
Yes, that’s perfect. [Laughs.]
kevin
Dougie, of course, being Dougie Jones—one of the, I think, four characters you played on The Return of Twin Peaks. [Kyle affirms.] I will be honest; it makes me a little mad when I’m talking about your performance in that and more people don’t recognize how great it was. It—
kyle
Aw, thank you.
kevin
I can’t imagine what kind of a challenge that was—playing, you know, these three or four or however many different characters and just, you know. You really sell it.
kyle
Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. I had such a good time with them. I was, you know, challenged, of course. I think with Dougie… I just had to have more courage in the stillness and the really just not doing anything. [Laughs.] [Kevin agrees.] And I—that’s—as a—for an—I mean, I’m pretty still, as an actor. But this was asking a lot. But I remember Peter Sellers and being there and, you know, I’ve—one of—a movie that I still think is just brilliant and I said, “No, I think—I think it’s worked.” And I also had, again, David Lynch was there. Whenever I would say to him, “David, this is taking too long.” He said, “No, no! Longer! Longer!” [They laugh.] I was like, “Okay! Okay. I’ll do it.” You know. I mean, when—I remember every day there were challenge and really fun challenges about how to go through a scene or a situation with no prior knowledge or understanding of it before. So, you’re like a baby in a grown man’s body. You have no idea how things work or what things are for or what those sounds are. I mean, you are a child. It’s a baby. It’s a baby! You’re just reacting. You know? And trying to do it without indicating. And the complete opposite was Mr. C, where I had to be incredibly frightening.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
clip
Ray (Twin Peaks: The Return): And I’ll follow up on that contact of mine, hopefully get the information you need. Mr. C: Want. Not need. [Beat.] I don’t need anything, Ray. If there’s one thing you should know about me, Ray, it’s that I don’t need anything. I want. And I want that information.
sound effect
Music swells and fades.
kyle
And that, again, I—you know, one of those things where the stillness that comes out of him and the menace that is there—not something that’s my stock and trade, but I also believe in myself as an actor and I think, “You know, you can do just about anything if you do the work.” [Chuckles.] So, I did and I—and I was really happy with the way it turned out. And it was a joy to go to work every day. Even getting up at four in the morning and, you know, driving to—I mean, just… every morning I said, “I am very lucky. I get to work with one of my favorite people in the world, David Lynch, on one of the—my favorite shows ever, Twin Peaks.” [Kevin affirms.] And I embraced it. I really embraced it and recognized, while I was in it, how lucky I was.
kevin
Yeah. That’s really nicely said.
kyle
Thank you.
kevin
My takeaway, when I watched The Return, was that I felt like that show talked a lot about nostalgia and how we kind of fetishize the past a little bit with shows like this. [Kyle hums in agreement.] You know. I think a lot of folks, when that show debuted—the Twin Peaks Return—were expecting you to be all thumbs up and coffee and cherry pie. And, you know, the past has a lot of trauma and a lot of dark stuff. And I think the show kind of envelops that really well. You know, Cooper was traumatized for over a quarter of a century in between those two things. Did that—did that cross your mind or did that make the show—or did that make the role more interesting to you, when you were reading the script?
kyle
Yeah, it was definitely… you have to recognize and acknowledge the passage of time. And to be honest, I just said, “You know, I’m older. I’ve gone through a lot. I’m just going to trust that, you know, whatever those experiences and battle scars and whatever they are on me. And that will be what’s gonna come out when we finally do get back to Cooper.” So, I didn’t feel like I needed to really dredge up some… some, you know, dark things. I figured, “You know, I’ve had experiences and been knocked around a bit. So, that’s gonna be there.” And I remember just being really excited—a) I could still fit in the suit. [Kevin laughs.] That was very nice. I was a little traumatized by the darkness of my hair and the pallor of my skin, to be honest. [Laughing.] That seemed a little extreme. But it was really, really satisfying when he finally emerged. I hope—I don’t wanna give away too much, but—if people haven’t seen it—but he emerges at a certain point and… and that—it felt right. And it felt appropriate for the time and the distance. You know. And again, I point to David. You know. For… making that happen, for creating that and kind of the open arm embrace that I felt when Cooper woke up and stepped out of that hospital room.
kevin
Kyle, I’d like to ask you about wine before we go.
kyle
I’m here to help you with wine, yes.
kevin
You’ve run a successful wine label for over—for about 15 years now, right? [Kyle confirms.] It’s called Pursued by Bear. When did you realize that wine was something special to you?
kyle
It was when I was in high school. [Laughs.]
kevin
Ooh!
kyle
No, no, I—you know, it—it was a—something that made me feel grown up. And I will say, when I—when I was—yeah, when I was I guess 17, 18… I was not a beer drinker. And my girlfriend at the time, we would have—I tell the story that she would have—we would have dinner at her house occasionally, with her family and her parents. Everybody. And everyone was allowed to have a little glass of wine with the meal. And I remember feeling very sophisticated and grown up and special. And the wine was actually pretty good. And so, that became kind of my thing. So, when I went to college—again, beer wasn’t really the thing I chose. Of course, realized the error of my way and that’s all taken care of. [Kevin chuckles.] But it was really wine. So, I was kind of the wine guy. You know. Even though I had no sophistication, no understanding at all. But it was a way to sort of… you know, stand out. I guess. Or you know, be a little bit different. And it turned into something that—my relationship with David Lynch, we—he sent me a bottle of Lynch Bages, after my first screentests, as kind of a surprise thank you. And David and I discussed wine when we—when I met him. And so, kind of—it just was this thing that kind of kept rolling around in my life. And through a series of interesting meetings with people that were involved in the business—Ann Colgin being one, Colgin Cellars in Napa. And then meeting some folks in Washington that were—in Washington state that were doing wine. I put together this idea that I—maybe I might be able to, you know, do some small, fun, hobby adventure thing where I made wine. And it was really no—nothing more thought out than that. And that’s what started me on the road, in 2005, with this cabernet called Pursued by Bear, made in Washington State. And it was one of those kind of fun things to do that also accomplished something in my life, which was spending more time with my dad. And it was something I recognized I wasn’t doing, and this was a way that we could—brought me home, back to Yakima and then it was something that we could do together. We could go down and go wine tasting and, you know, check out this place and that place and go look at this vineyard. And my dad was sort of a gentleman farmer, even though he was a stockbroker as well. And it really appealed to him and it was something that we could do together. In my relationship with my dad, it was—there needed to be some activity [laughing] that was going on for us to, like, hang out together. So, whether it was gardening, or it was playing golf or, you know, tasting wine, there was always an activity that needed to be—that needed to happen.
kevin
When is it too late to have coffee?
kyle
[Beat.] Never. [Laughs.]
kevin
Really?
kyle
I have coffee—I drink coffee all day.
kevin
My coffee cut off time is three.
kyle
Three o’clock?
kevin
I had iced coffee at 3:30 on Monday and I was tossing and turning. I am such a baby.
kyle
Do you like a dark roast or a medium roast?
kevin
I’m gonna give a shoutout to Trystero Coffee, which is a local coffeeshop in LA that delivers—this guy named Greg comes by and drops off two bags of coffee to us. And he does definitely lighter roasts, I would say. Like, I would say medium to light and usually like—
kyle
Medium to light, okay. So, you like more of a citrus, bright quality.
kevin
I do. But also, I like coffee from Latin America that have more of that chocolatiness, too.
kyle
Mm. Good. I—if I understand correctly, the darker the roast, the less caffeine.
kevin
Yeah, that’s true.
kyle
Which—and I am a—more of a dark roast person, and I’ll give a shoutout to the Walla Walla Roastery, which is up in Walla Walla. [Kevin chuckles.] And they actually have a blend that they made with me, called—it’s called Brown Bear. And it’s mélange, which was an homage, of course, to Dune—because the roaster, Thomas Reese, is a big Dune fan. [Kevin affirms.] And it has the—it has the same label as my wine, the Pursued by Bear wine, but it’s on the coffee bag. And it’s pretty tasty. But I think it’s probably the caffeine. So, they—you know, most of the caffeine is taken out or burned off, I think, when they heat it up. And I like a real dark roast. Or even espresso. At night. But it could simply be the fact that I drink so much coffee, I’m immune! [They laugh.] I’ve built—it could be that simple.
kevin
Yeah, I mean if people are buying you cups at, you know, the local restaurant or something, that’s gotta build up.
kyle
Exactly right.
kevin
Well, we’re just about out of time. Kyle MacLachlan, thank you so much for coming on Bullseye. This was such a pleasure.
kyle
I really enjoyed speaking with you, Kevin. Thank you for having me.
jesse
Kyle MacLachlan. Tesla, his latest movie, is streaming now. Kyle also runs his own winery. It’s called Pursued by Bear, which you can check out online. He also has one of the most entertaining presences on social media. If you’re a fan of anything he’s been in and could use some cheering up, maybe give him a follow.
music
Thumpy, relaxed music.
jesse
That’s the end of another episode of Bullseye. Bullseye is produced out of the homes of me and the staff of Maximum Fun, in and around greater Los Angeles, California—where, just the other day, I went onto WeatherUnderground.com to check what the weather forecast for the next day was and it said, “Tomorrow is forecast to be much cooler than today.” And the forecast for tomorrow was 96. High of 96. Much cooler. 96. That’s where we’re at, here in Los Angeles. The show is produced by speaking into microphones. Our producer is Kevin Ferguson. Jesus Ambrosio and Jordan Kauwling are our associate producers. We get help from Casey O’Brien. Our interstitial music is by Dan Wally, also known as DJW. Our theme song is by The Go! Team. Thanks to them and to their label, Memphis Industries, for letting us use it. You can keep up with the show on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. Just search for Bullseye with Jesse Thorn. And I think that’s about it. Just remember: all great radio hosts have a signature sign off.
promo
Speaker: Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of MaximumFun.org and is distributed by NPR. [Music fades out.]
About the show
Bullseye is a celebration of the best of arts and culture in public radio form. Host Jesse Thorn sifts the wheat from the chaff to bring you in-depth interviews with the most revered and revolutionary minds in our culture.
Bullseye has been featured in Time, The New York Times, GQ and McSweeney’s, which called it “the kind of show people listen to in a more perfect world.” Since April 2013, the show has been distributed by NPR.
If you would like to pitch a guest for Bullseye, please CLICK HERE. You can also follow Bullseye on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook. For more about Bullseye and to see a list of stations that carry it, please click here.
Get in touch with the show
@bullseye.bsky.social
@bullseyewithjessethornPeople
How to listen
Stream or download episodes directly from our website, or listen via your favorite podcatcher!
