TRANSCRIPT Judge John Hodgman Ep. 757: Post-Holiday Leftovers

[00:00:00]

Transition: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I am Bailiff Jesse Thorn. The docket is full. We gotta clear it out, Judge Hodgman.

John Hodgman: Yeah. Our refrigerator is full of holiday leftovers. It is the beginning of 2026 when you are listening to this. (Correcting himself.) I don’t know when it is when you’re listening to this, but when we’re recording it, it is the beginning of 2026. The holidays are in the rear-view mirror, and who knows what the future holds. I wanna climb back into the refrigerator and eat up all of our leftovers. Jesse?

Jesse Thorn: (Laughing.) Yeah?

John Hodgman: Did you have any holiday leftovers? This is our holiday leftover docket. We’re gonna talk about some holiday disputes, but let’s talk about food for one second. What did you have in your fridge after the end of the holidays?

Jesse Thorn: I have a friend—and I’m not gonna name who this friend is—but it rhymes with. Judge John Podgman. And he’s—

(Jennifer chortles.)

John Hodgman: I hate that guy. And you know what? I love you, Jesse. I’m so glad to be friends. I wish you wouldn’t run around with that guy.

Jesse Thorn: I—(laughing) I, uh—

John Hodgman: Honestly.

Jesse Thorn: He lives in New York City, home of the famous Katz’s Delicatessen. I’ll have what she’s having. And he sent a gift basket to me from Katz’s Delicatessen. Of pastrami, seedless rye bread, deli mustard, sauerkraut, a funny kind of processed Swiss cheese—semi-processed Swiss cheese.

John Hodgman: (John laughs.) Can’t vouch for their Swiss, over there at Katz’s.

Jesse Thorn: And corn beef as well. And I housed it. I mean, I just absolutely destroyed all that corn beef and pastrami.

John Hodgman: What a delight.

Jesse Thorn: It was tremendous. But I had some sauerkraut and some of the funny, processed Swiss cheese, and a little bit of rye bread leftover.

John Hodgman: Yeah. What’d you do with it?

Jesse Thorn: I made myself a meatless Reuben. Pastrami and Swiss cheese on rye. And I cooked it like a grilled cheese sandwich.

John Hodgman: Did you put some of their Russian dressing in on there?

Jesse Thorn: I did. I put a little bit of Russian dressing in there instead of like mayo or something. Tremendous. Tremendous.

John Hodgman: I gotta tell you—

Jesse Thorn: Doesn’t need the—the pastrami is wonderful, but it doesn’t need it.

John Hodgman: I don’t agree with Judge John Podgman on a lot of things. Truly, that guy gets on my nerves.

Jesse Thorn: Sure.

John Hodgman: But in this case? I think he did the right thing. And I’ll say this. If you ever— You know, look. Katz’s has blown up on the internet. On Instagram, it’s become very huge. There are big, big lines. It used to be, in New York City, that was a place you could just wander into any time of day and get yourself an expensive but truly satisfying, honking big pastrami sandwich. And by the way? That may be the place where I learned to tip like you hate money. Because you toss your carver—your pastrami or your corn beef carver—a few bucks, all of a sudden you’re getting a lot more. Like, it is a true and obvious transaction. And you’re taking care of your guy!

So, you know of I also gave out some gift boxes of Katz’s. And I gotta say, they’re extremely reliable. If you’re looking for something to send— I mean, their motto is “send a salami to your boy in the army.” You don’t have a boy in the army? Send some pastrami to your friend Jesse Thornie.

(Jennifer laughs.)

There’s another rhyme.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, exactly.

John Hodgman: And as a gift— You know, if you need to send someone a gift that they’ll appreciate? Katz’s is reliable, and it gets there on time. I sent a similar box to our friends Molly and Griffin in Maine. And when I ordered it, I did not know that within a couple of days Rob and Michele Reiner would not be alive because of the horrible tragedy that occurred. And they didn’t know either, when they turned on When Harry Met Sally on a Maine winter’s night that he had even directed that movie until they got to the Katz’s section. And they were like, “Wait a minute. Who directed this movie?” It was Rob Reiner.

And at that moment, Jesse? I swear to God-or-Whatever, there was a dingdong at the door from the UPS man bringing Katz’s pastrami to their door as they watched that scene.

Jesse Thorn: Astonishing.

John Hodgman: A magical moment. And boy, do I miss Rob and Michele Riener a lot. That’s such a sad, sad thing to have happened. Sorry to dwell on that, but you reminded me. Now in my house, I had— Now, this is gonna be carnivore talk here, if you want to fast-forward 10 seconds if you don’t eat meat.

[00:05:00]

But I had a three-rib short rib hunk of meat in the freezer that I wanted to cook for the holiday, up there in Maine. But then my mother-in-law was gonna come to town, and so we decided to go more traditional, ’cause she’s a very traditional person. So, I got a prime rib. Now, you can’t go wrong with a roast prime rib. And indeed, I went very right! But this was too much. This thing was too much for our little Christmas dinner. So, we had so much honking prime rib hanging around the house—turning it into hash, gnawing on bones of an afternoon like it’s a chore.

Jesse Thorn: Mm-hm. A roast beef sandwich, maybe

John Hodgman: Sooo many roast beef sandwiches. And I can’t complain. I mean, honestly. But I discovered a new use for leftover prime rib, which is: dip it in fondue.

Jesse Thorn: Oh, wow. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: We had a—yeah. It was truly indulgent. We were going over to a friend’s house, and—

Jesse Thorn: You guys were glamping.

John Hodgman: Yeah. (Chuckles.) We had a prepackaged fondue that you can get in the supermarket. You know what I mean? Where it’s all the cheeses, and the emulsifiers are all in there. All you do is heat it and eat it. And normally you dip like stale bread and broccoli—some blanched broccoli’s delicious. Try some cubed prime rib! Holy—holy ba-moly.

(Jesse whistles.)

That was a delightful leftover.

Jesse Thorn: Okay, here’s something from Matt in Hamilton, Ontario.

“My neighbor, Brad, threw a New Year’s party that featured a dip making competition.”

John Hodgman: (Dryly.) Okay.

Jesse Thorn: Okay. “A peanut chicken sauté dip won first place. My shrimp dip tied for third place. The second place winner was a make your own French dip slider station. This is not a dip! Brad says, ‘Dips in the name. Case closed.’ But the case isn’t closed! This year, we introduced ranked balloting.”

John Hodgman: Sure.

Jesse Thorn: (Chuckling.) I think that’s important. Like those San Francisco Supervisorial races.

John Hodgman: Right? Or all statewide offices in Maine. Ranked choice voting is very good.

Jesse Thorn: “But this competition needs more fine tuning. I would like to clarify the rules and the dish eligibility criteria.”

John Hodgman: So, this was not you saying this is not a dip; this was Matt in Hamilton, Ontario saying a French dip sandwich is not in the spirit nor the letter of the law of the dip competition.

Jesse Thorn: Correct.

John Hodgman: Okay. Now, before we get into that for a second: I like a wide variety of dips. In fact, one of our listeners sent in an old timey recipe for a clam dip, which we didn’t get to eat on our holiday office party, because we were only doing gelatinous foods. Although, I guess dips are pretty gelatinous. We’ll do a— Maybe we’ll think about dip competition for the next time. Dip comp. But the clam dip— (Laughs.) Dip comp sounds like a kind of vaccine, right? What’s the vaccine? Dip-tap?

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, something like that. Diphtheria and something else.

John Hodgman: Right? Dip-tet, maybe? I dunno.

Jesse Thorn: Maybe for our dip comp, we should put diphtheria in one of the dips. It’s like a little Russian roulette situation.

John Hodgman: Yeah, that’s right. That makes it a little, fun game.

Jesse Thorn: Uh-huh.

John Hodgman: So, Julia sent in from Southern California “Clam Dip for Chips.” It was a wonderfully stained index card with typewritten instructions on it. Clove of garlic, two packages of cream cheese, Worcestershire, lemon juice, salt, half a cup of clams—minced—and a tablespoon of clam broth. Now, I can almost hear our audience vomiting all over themselves as they drive right now. But that said, this sounds good to me! Shrimp dip?! I don’t know why; that’s really gross to me. I’m sorry. I’m sorry I interrupted you.

Jesse Thorn: Oh, interesting! I like the idea of shrimp dip. I don’t like the idea of clam dip.

John Hodgman: What kinds of shrimps are you using in the shrimp dip, Jesse?

Jesse Thorn: Maybe you’re dipping shrimps into something.

John Hodgman: Oh, that makes more sense I suppose. Like a shrimp cocktail.

Jesse Thorn: But it could be shrimpy. It could be shrimpy in flavor.

John Hodgman: Yeah it could be minced shrimps. Matt in Hamilton, Ontario, tell me how to make the shrimp dip. It does not— It will not affect my ruling, which is French dip is not dip. Right, Jesse?

Jesse Thorn: Of course, it’s not dip. No. Of course, it’s not dip! The dip in French dip is a verb. It’s that you’re dipping it.

John Hodgman: You dip it in the jus.

Jesse Thorn: It’s not a dip. It’s not a noun dip.

John Hodgman: Right.

Jesse Thorn: Jus is a dip!

John Hodgman: Jus is a dip? We’re talking about au jus.

Jesse Thorn: Well, that’s a good question. Does a dip have to be gelatinous to be a dip? Or do you just have to be dipping something? Like, if you’re dipping a donut into coffee, does the coffee become a dip? No.

John Hodgman: Boy, oh boy. You know that there are people already writing that email right now.

[00:10:00]

Jesse Thorn: What’s a dip?

John Hodgman: No, because that’s not a dip. That’s a dunk.

Jesse Thorn: Okay, great.

John Hodgman: I would say French Dip is—

Jesse Thorn: (Laughing.) Let the record reflect that Jennifer did a move that I’m gonna describe as the Saturday Night Fever at the engineer desk in celebration of you declaring that coffee is a dunk not a dip.

(They laugh.)

John Hodgman: Oh! She pointed her finger at the sky, John Travolta style? That’s great! Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: I’m from the last generation, by the way—as an elder millennial, I’m from the last generation where the only cultural reference was Saturday Night Fever dance. The only thing—it came out before I was born, but for an entire 15 years afterwards, Saturday Night Fever dance: the only cultural reference that existed.

John Hodgman: That was the only piece of culture in American culture at that time.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah.

John Hodgman: You wouldn’t have “Pac-Man Fever” if you didn’t have Saturday Night Fever.

Jesse Thorn: To say nothing of “Disco Duck”!

John Hodgman: To say nothing of Rick Dees’s number one hit, “Disco Duck”.

Anyway. Yeah. So, the au jus is like a thin— It’s not even a gravy, ’cause it’s not flour. It’s just like juice. It’s the roast beef juice, and you dip your whole sandwich in it. And it’s delightful. And I hear— Now, there are two famous French dip restaurants in Los Angeles.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. That would be Cole’s French Dip and Philippe’s the French Dip.

John Hodgman: And one of them I heard on a on another podcast—we’ll call them the Boughdoys—one of them’s closing. Is that correct? Jesse, do you know anything about that?

Jesse Thorn: Cole’s French dip— They both claim to be the inventor of the French dip. They’re very different restaurants. Cole’s French Dip was bought by like a restaurant group maybe 15 years ago and turned into a very kind of like subway tile, sleeve garter type restaurant.

John Hodgman: Yeah.  Edison bulb.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, Edison bulb type restaurant. And they are apparently closing. A lot of economic pressures on a downtown Los Angeles restaurant these days.

John Hodgman: I’m sorry to hear that.

Jesse Thorn: And they are apparently closing, although I think they’re also looking for someone to sell to. This restaurant has been open since I think the 19th century or something? (Chuckles.)

John Hodgman: Right. That’s Cole’s is closing.

Jesse Thorn: That’s Cole’s. Philippe’s the French Dip is by far my preferred French dip restaurant.

John Hodgman: And they’re safe for now.

Jesse Thorn: This is near Union Station here in Los Angeles, which is not exactly downtown Los Angeles. And this is like a restaurant where everything has actually been the same since 1920. (Laughs.) Like, there’s literally— There’s sawdust on the floor. There’s—(laughs). Oh, Philippe’s is the best. Philippe’s is so great.

John Hodgman: If you want the real French dip, you take your sandwich, you dip it in the jus, and then you sprinkle a little sawdust on it. That’s called a dusty dip.

Jesse Thorn: The big sort of difference, culturally speaking, between Philippe’s, and Cole’s is that—at Cole’s—it’s served as it might be served at a nice mid-range restaurant that serves a French dip with a cup of jus. At Philippe’s, I believe you can ask for a cup of jus, but they dip it for you. And you can control how dipped you would like it to be.

(John “oh!”s with surprise.)

So, a lot of people like a double dip, for example. Or sometimes people will just say, “Wet,” and they’ll just straight up get it soaked.

John Hodgman: I dare say, they dunk it.

Jesse Thorn: They probably dunk it. Yeah. Like, put it in a fry basket and drop it into the jus.

John Hodgman: Yeah. French dip is not a dip. I would say, if you want to if you want some fun, take your thinly sliced roast beef sandwich and dip it in some real dip. Dip it in some onion dip. That would probably taste good!

Jesse Thorn: That sounds great.

John Hodgman: You could even dip it in your fondue. And I’m gonna I’m gonna say that fondue is a dip.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, I think fondue is a dip.

John Hodgman: Fondue is a dip. And fondue is kind of its own thing, but it’s a very special dip. But it is definitely a dip. It’s a hot dip.

Jesse Thorn: Here’s a case from David.

“Every year my daughter June sets up her Christmas tree on her birthday.”

John Hodgman: Which is when?

Jesse Thorn: (Suppressing a laugh.) September 29th.

John Hodgman: Oh boy.

Jesse Thorn: “That’s too early, isn’t it?”

Okay, so we have a video that we’re gonna take a look at.

John Hodgman: Yeah. What—?!

Jesse Thorn: (Erupting into laughter.) What’s the cat doing in there?! (Cackling.) That was a video of a cat! Not a video of a—the cat was in the Christmas tree! (Absolutely losing it.) It’s a little cat, too!

John Hodgman: Is that cat an ornament!?

Jesse Thorn: (Giggling.) Trying to eat something poisonous!

John Hodgman: Let me see that again. Lemme see that again please, Jennifer Marmor.

[00:15:00]

(A pause before Jesse explodes into laughter again.)

Come on, kitty cat! You know—

Jesse Thorn: Threw it in there!

John Hodgman: I’m a big fan of onion dip, and I’m a big fan of The Onion newspaper.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah.

John Hodgman: Their motto should be “we still got it,” ’cause they do. And they posted a picture of a cat— I think it was The Onion. It could have been the pretty much equally brilliant Reductress. But they posted a picture of a cat in a Christmas tree with the caption: “Cat acknowledges getting into the tree was the extent of its plan.” And that’s clearly what’s going on there. Okay. That’s a very adorable cat. It’s a tuxedo cat, for those of you who aren’t watching the YouTube. And if you aren’t watching the YouTube, why don’t you please go over to the YouTube channel @JudgeJohnHodgmanPod? Costs you nothing to subscribe. You just click a button, and it really helps other people discover the podcast!

But with that plug aside, I will say, that’s an adorable cat that shouldn’t be in that tree. You know what? Do what you’re gonna do cat. Just as long as it’s safe for that cat, it’s fine.

Jesse Thorn: Somebody call the fire department! We gotta get that cat outta the tree!

John Hodgman: Yeah, that’s right. Save the cat and start a screenplay!

(Jesse and Jennifer giggle.)

Point is, September 29th is much, much, much too early to put up a Christmas tree. It’s obviously a whole month before Halloween! But you know what? Because it’s June’s birthday, and June is my birthday month by the way, I’m gonna say happy birthday June. You do whatever you want. You and your cat, live it up.

Jesse Thorn: Wow. What about for normal people?

John Hodgman: Oh no, no, no. If it’s not your birthday— You can put your tree up on your birthday—I guess anytime, if I’m gonna be fair.

Jesse Thorn: I’m gonna put mine up… April 24th?

John Hodgman: Yeah, you could put yours up then if you wanted and just leave it. Let it die all year until you finally get to Christmas. I would say—you know, don’t. But it’s your birthday. Do whatever you want. September 29th is— I think that’s far enough away to be, frankly, unforgivable. And yet, because it’s your birthday it feels like a nice treat. Go for it. David—

Jesse Thorn: I’m a real I’m a real Thanksgiving-liker, and I feel like if the Christmas decorations are up, it ruins Thanksgiving.

John Hodgman: I’m a real Thanksgiving-hater, and I agree with you.

Jesse Thorn: Let’s take a quick break, so I can watch that little video ten more times.

John Hodgman: Yeah, that’d be good.

Jesse Thorn: We’ll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Transition: Three gavel bangs.

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[00:20:00]

Transition: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I watched that video 12 times during the break.

John Hodgman: That cat reminded me of another miraculous holiday tale that happened to me in real life. So, one Christmas a few Christmases ago our daughter, Hodgmina—who’s a whole human being in her own right—and I were taking the Vermonter train north to Western Massachusetts. I, to do a show at the Shea Theater with Monte Belmonte—a holiday show. She, to visit her oldest friend who still lives up there in Western Mass—or did at the time. And it was very, very crowded on the train. I’ve told this story before, but I’m gonna tell it again, ’cause I love it. And it was very, very crowded on the train. We had a hard time finding seats together. But there was one guy who always had an empty seat next to him. He kind of looked like Paul Giamatti. I’m just painting a word picture here, so you get a picture of it.

Jesse Thorn: Was the energy Paul Giamatti in a movie energy?

John Hodgman: It was the wrong kind of Paul Giamatti. Like, I’d love to sit next to Paul Giamatti all the time. Imagine—

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, actual Paul Giamatti is a joy. Sure.

John Hodgman: Yeah. Imagine if Paul Giamatti was playing a character who looks like Paul Giamatti and is sitting on an Amtrak train and is nursing his ninth tallboy of Bud Light.

(Jesse laughs.)

And making intensely jolly conversation with anyone who dared to sit next to him, to the point that people were—I think—lying to him and saying, “This is my stop!” (Chuckles.) And they would go and find a seat in another compartment. ‘Cause he was just chatting Bud Light all over these people’s faces. And one of them had a cat. As she was leaving the train, either to get off at the station or to just avoid him, he goes, “Merry Christmas to you and your cat! He’s a wonderful companion for you!”

(Jesse laughs in delight.)

Which is very charming and wonderful. (Chuckles.) And then he got on the phone and was just chatting up the person. He was like, “(Loudly.) Yeah, I should be there in a couple of hours.” And as we’re waiting to get off the train, he’s talking to somebody; he’s on the phone. He goes, “(Loudly.) Wait, hang on a second. I got another call coming in.” Goes to the other call, and he says very loudly, “What’s that? Huh!? Naked pictures of me on the internet?! Well, that can’t be true!”

(Jesse giggles.)

And then we had to get off the train!

Jesse Thorn: That guy sounds like a wonderful companion to you, John!

John Hodgman: It was a wonderful—he was a wonderful companion, but he was— I mean, he had to call everyone he knew. He goes, “You’re gonna hear something about naked pictures of me on the internet. It’s not true!” I’m gonna write a screenplay for Paul Giamatti based on that guy.

Jesse Thorn: Here’s a case from Shannon in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

“My husband Charles wears Christmas-themed boxer briefs year-round.”

John Hodgman: Oh yeah.

Jesse Thorn: “Charles says underwear is utilitarian. He doesn’t think about the design when he’s grabbing a pair. I think Christmas items are special. They should be reserved for the holiday season. Please make him stop.”

John Hodgman: Where is she writing from? Oh, little town of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania?

Jesse Thorn: Indeed.

John Hodgman: A little on the nose. This reminds me of our friend in Madison, Wisconsin, who wears Minion pajamas out and about while checking the mail.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. And while appearing on the Judge John Hodgman live show.

John Hodgman: Well, right. That’s because we invited him to do it, and he is a good sport.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah.

John Hodgman: But his spouse did not want him to be wearing Minion pajamas out and about. And I think whether it be Minion pajamas or Santa-themed tighty-whities,  if the person you share a bed with is like, “Mm. To quoth the internet: that’s not it, chief.” You should listen when your spouse doesn’t like your underthings. You know. You should listen. ‘Cause you wanna hug and kiss this person. Underwear has a utilitarian purpose, but I think that it would be— You know, unless it’s your birthday, and you get off on wearing—(struggling not to laugh) wearing Santa boxer briefs on September 29th or whatever? I think that probably you should listen to your spouse.

I received a night shirt from my wife—who’s a whole human being in her own right—for Christmas, which was really fun.

Jesse Thorn: I’m typically a pajamas guy.

[00:25:00]

I wear like full, you know, Dick Van Dyke Show pajamas. (Chuckles.)

John Hodgman: Yeah. You and Cory Doctorow.

Jesse Thorn: But I have to say, a night shirt is really appealing. The problem is that when I toss and turn, it tends to tighten its wrap upon me. And so, I end up bound by a night shirt.

John Hodgman: I can tell you that it does mimic the sheets in a way that is a little disorienting at first. Because you’re like, “Are the sheets down around my knees? What is this extra fabric?” But I mean, there’s very little that is more sort of Christmasy to wear than a night shirt. You really feel like a Scrooge or the narrator of Night Before Christmas.

Jesse Thorn: Did your wife get a kerchief?

John Hodgman: (Chortles.) Ma in her kerchief, and I in my cap?

Jesse Thorn: Yeah.

John Hodgman: No, she didn’t. You’re gonna you’re gonna see me soon. We’re gonna be in person. I’m gonna show you some of the clothes that my wife—who is a whole human being in her own right—picked out for me. They’re some of the greatest items of clothes that I’ve ever worn. Like, great taste. This was a little bit of a misfire only because she revealed that the inspiration was when David Rees came to visit us in Maine over the summer, he wore a night shirt. And I’m like, “Well, I can’t wear this now. I feel like I’m wearing another woman’s lingerie.”

Jesse Thorn: Yeah

John Hodgman: So. But I tried it out, and I really liked it. And it’s cozy. It’s cozy for Christmastime. I will wear it again, maybe on my birthday.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. Hit up that like Vermont Country Store or something like that?

John Hodgman: You know what they used to sell at Vermont Country Store that they don’t anymore? An old brand from the ‘70s of shampoo called Gee, Your hair Smells Terrific.

(They laugh.)

You’ve always surprised me with knowing a lot of my cultural references even though we were born a decade apart. But you’ve never heard of Gee, Your Hair Smells Terrific, right?

Jesse Thorn: I know all about the dance from Saturday Night Fever, which film I’ve never seen.

John Hodgman: Right? Me neither, by the way.

Jesse Thorn: But I don’t know about Gee, Your Hair Smells Terrific.

Okay, here’s something from Thomas in New Hampshire.

“My wife, Rebecca, and I have a dispute about when to begin holiday rituals. When it gets cold, I get the craving for eggnog. In New Hampshire, it gets cold in early October or even the end of September in some years. Rebecca says that as soon as I buy eggnog, she should be allowed to play the Charlie Brown Christmas soundtrack in the house. But I think Christmas music should be restricted to post-Thanksgiving. What should we do?”

John Hodgman: Well, Jesse, you love Thanksgiving. Would eggnog ruin Thanksgiving for you?

Jesse Thorn: Absolutely not.

John Hodgman: It wouldn’t. Oh, okay.

Jesse Thorn: No. Eggnog to me is a seasonal drink in that its… viscosity—

(They chuckle.)

—leads it to be preferable in the winter months, I would say. Like, I think that pegging eggnog to weather is appropriate, whereas the Charlie Brown Christmas special is specifically a Christmas thing. Now, in the Christmas season, will I be listening to the soundtrack of the Charlie Brown Christmas special? Yes. One of the best Christmas albums ever recorded. Just truly perfect. Just gorgeous.

John Hodgman: Completely tight. Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. And I would say it might be the best Christmas album ever recorded, at least in the category of “no murderers in its title.”

John Hodgman: Good point.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. I mean, if they retitle the Phil Specter: Christmas Gift for You, maybe that will return to the top of the list.

John Hodgman: And now I understand the point. Got it. Okay.

Jesse Thorn: But yeah, you really can’t beat that. But that is definitely December listening.

John Hodgman: Yeah. Well, I mean, if you are willing to accept eggnog into your heart and piehole at Thanksgiving, I see no problem with Thomas in New Hampshire cracking open the nog as it gets chilly—especially up there in in in New Hampshire, up there in Northern New England. I’m sorry, Rebecca, I don’t know why it offends you so much. I think as soon as you start seeing eggnog in the stores, it’s fair game. You can open it. And I would definitely get into it early, because if you get into it late like we did? We bought our eggnog late, and I poured a lot of nog down the drain in Maine, I’ve gotta say. We just couldn’t—(clicks teeth) couldn’t keep up with it. You know? We got sick of it. For me, I love it, but you get sick of it quick. So, pace yourself.

Jesse Thorn: I want Thomas and Rebecca to be visiting nog a few times during the cold months. I don’t want nog in the refrigerator for three straight months. That’s too much nog.

John Hodgman: Too much nog. I agree.

[00:30:00]

Jesse Thorn: Nog is a lovely celebration, special event drink. Because you know, you pour it in the traditional thimble-sized glass that’s over 2,000 calories.

(John chuckles warmly.)

Like, a nog— I think one of the nice things about starting the nog at the beginning of October is maybe they get three chances to enjoy nog over that three-month period without over nogging themselves.

John Hodgman: Yeah. It’s like that famous holiday special, A Tale of Three Nogs.

Jesse Thorn: Indeed. Okay, let’s take a break. ‘Cause we got zombies coming up on the other side.

Transition: Three gavel bangs.

 

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(Bright chimes.)

 

Transition: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: We’re taking a quick break from clearing the docket to let you know that we will be in Brooklyn, New York City at the Bell House: Friday March 6th, Saturday March 7th. I’m really excited about this, John.

John Hodgman: That’s right judge John Hodgman is coming home to the Bellhouse, a short walk from my own Hodgehouse! Cannot wait to see you all in Brooklyn again at our very favorite home stage, the Bellhouse, March 6th and 7th. It’s always better when you’re there, so I hope you’ll please go right now to MaximumFun.org/events and get your tickets to join us now! It’s gonna be a lot of fun. The Bellhouse, March 6th and 7th. MaximumFun.org/events.

Jesse Thorn: It’s gonna be a very special one. We’re trying some new stuff. It’s gonna be great. MaximumFun.org/events. Let’s get back to the docket!

Transition: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. You ready for this zombie question, John?

John Hodgman: I’m a little scared.

Jesse Thorn: Uh-huh.

John Hodgman: What’s going on with the zombies? Is it happening finally or what?

Jesse Thorn: Here’s a case from Halle in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

“I am very scared of zombies. Zombies are scarier than other kinds of ghosts and monsters, because they seem more real. Other people in my life say zombies are as unreal as everything else—ghosts, vampires, et cetera. But in virtually every story of zombies, there is a time before the zombies. And then a thing happens, and zombies come into existence. So, while it’s true that they don’t exist now, we could be in the part of the story before they exist. Please rule that zombies are more real and therefore scarier.”

You know what I’m scared of?

John Hodgman: N-no. Tell me what.

Jesse Thorn: Mummies.

John Hodgman: Mummies are real!

Jesse Thorn: Yeah! There’s mummies right now! Plus, what if they’re in your closet?

John Hodgman: (Snorts.) I know where there are mummies very near the Temple of Dendur in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I’ve laid my eyes on them. Now, if a mummy comes back to life is that a zombie? An animated mummy? Is that or is that still a (misspeaking) mumby? It’s still a mummy.

Jesse Thorn: I think as long as the wrap’s still on their it’s still a mumby.

John Hodgman: (Chuckles.) A mumby? Is that what it’s called?

Jesse Thorn: That’s what you just called it. So, I’m “yes, and”ing.

John Hodgman: Thank you very much, Jesse. You know, I’ve been reading a bunch of Marvel comics from the ‘70s, which was a weird era of Marvel comics, in the real definition of the word weird.

[00:35:00]

Like, they did a lot of martial arts comics, a lot of Blaxploitation-style movie comics—not movies, but based on the Blaxploitation like movies like Shaft and—

Jesse Thorn: The sort of aesthetic of a Blaxploitation film.

John Hodgman: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean that’s why you had Powerman and Iron Fist teaming up.

Jesse Thorn: I mean, let me just say. I think we can all agree: 1970s, golden age for Black guys doing karate.

John Hodgman: Absolutely. Aaabsolutely. And they had a lot of horror comics too. They had Tomb of Dracula. They had Werewolf by Night. And it was a weird time in comics, and that’s why I’m enjoying it so much. But one of the things that took me by surprise is that the 1970s era Avengers did have a fight with a bunch of zombies. But they couldn’t call them zombies, because it was a holdover of the comics code. When the comics code was established, which was a self-policing code the comic industry put on itself to avoid being legislated out of existence by a real prude named Wertham, I think his name was. It was agreed they would not depict the undead in comics anymore, because a lot of people were clutching their pearls over that in the ‘50s, and so they decided to bring back zombies. But they made up a new word for them, which is zuvembies.

(Jesse snorts a laugh.)

It’s sort of like mumbies.

(Jennifer cackles.)

It’s a little bit nicer. Zuvembies. And I had no idea what they were talking about! Like, these are zombies, but they keep talking about— I mean, obviously Ironman is saying zuvembie with a straight face, ’cause you can’t see his face. He’s got a mask on. This was the period of time, by the way, when Iron Man had a nose. They put a nose on Iron Man. He looked like a real dope. Anyway.

Jesse Thorn: (Adopting a cartoonishly posh English accent.) “Mumby, may I have another cucumber sandwich, please?”

John Hodgman: (Chuckles.) Zuvembies. You can think of zombies that way, but I don’t think you’re gonna be less scared, Halle in Philadelphia. ‘Cause what you are afraid of is not necessarily the classical, raised from the dead creatures of myth—and particularly Afro-Caribbean lore—but instead the more contemporary definition of zombie, which is any mindless shambling or fast-running predator that is that arises out of an unknown contagion that expands exponentially until you and your weird band of survivors are the only ones left. And that is a terrifying myth, because not only is contagion a real thing—as we all experienced globally during pandemic lockdown; complete change, and a terrifying change of life, and a terrifying loss of life—but also, it’s scary because sometimes it feels like the neighbors and fellow countrymen and women and others that surrounded us that we thought kind of we all saw the world the same way, it turns out they inhabit a completely different reality. One in which we or other people are not welcome. So, it’s a reeeally scary idea. I agree with you. It’s scarier than Draculas.

Jesse Thorn: Even though Draculas can have any job.

John Hodgman: Right, exactly. Because we know that they don’t exist, and they are a metaphor for all different kinds of like “other.” And it’s scarier than ghosts, because ghosts—while scary—are kind of always reassuring to me. ‘Cause it does suggest that there is a life after death, which is not something I have any assurance in at all at the moment. And I guess they’re scarier than werewolves. I don’t know. I mean, I get it is my point, Halle. And everyone responds to different things in different ways. And if zombies are scarier to you than any other classical kind of monster myth, then you should own your fear. And that’s fine.

You don’t have to watch zombie or zombie-adjacent media. You don’t have to you don’t have to defend yourself. All you have to do is barricade yourself in the top floor of an apartment building with about five years’ worth of MREs and fresh water. And never see any of your friends again. That’s probably the best way to stay safe from the zuvembies.

Jesse Thorn: John, did you go to the Sir John Soane Museum with me one time in London?

John Hodgman: Yes! Yes, I did! That was an amazing experience. Tell the people what that was.

Jesse Thorn: So, Sir John Soane was an architect, a pioneering architect. That was his primary contribution to world culture.

[00:40:00]

He invented, among other things, indirect skylights, and also invented the idea of architectural models, essentially. Like, he went to the classical world—which was informing most contemporary architecture at the time; it’s like around 1800 or something. And he created scale models of the classical edifices and brought them back for architectural students to study. Which had never been done before. It had never occurred to anyone that they could build a three-dimensional version of the things in the classical world so that students didn’t—

John Hodgman: Like the Parthenon or the—yeah.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. Either go check out the Parthenon in person, which was very complicated and expensive at the time, or just like look at a picture of it. Right?

John Hodgman: Right.

Jesse Thorn: Very big-deal things. He also had this house that, (laughing) among many wonderful things, there’s a mausoleum for his dog in the basement. But one of the wonderful things is like Egyptology was all the rage in London at the time. And he bought a sarcophagus, took the façade off his house, wheeled the sarcophagus into his house on the ground floor. He had to remove the entire façade of his house! ‘Cause the sarcophagus was too big to bring in otherwise. Then he cut a hole in the second floor of his house, so that he could have a viewing gallery of the sarcophagus. And then he just started hosting sarcophagus parties. (Chuckles.)

Anyway, that’s just on the subject of mummies.

John Hodgman: Wait a minute. Was this the Sir John Soane house? Or is this Adam Savage’s workshop in San Francisco?

Jesse Thorn: (Laughs.) No, all of the stuff is the same, only it’s a real life. R2-D2.

(John agrees with a laugh.)

Okay. So, speaking of what is and isn’t real, here’s something about real supermarkets from Ariel (air-ee-elle) or Ariel (ahr-ee-elle) in Pikesville, Maryland.

“Trader Joe’s is my favorite supermarket.”

Sponsor us, Trader Joe’s.

John Hodgman: Yeah, c’mon, Trader Joe’s.

Jesse Thorn: If I’m gonna read this out loud… it doesn’t make sense if we leave out the brand, though.

“Trader Joe’s is my favorite supermarket.” Call 1-800-ShopTJs for great values— What? Nooo, that can’t be what she wrote.

(John laughs.)

“Trader Joe’s is my favorite supermarket. Trader Joe’s provides a curated selection of almost everything needed to feed a family. My girlfriend says it’s not a real supermarket. She says she can’t find everything she needs there. She has to go to another store to finish her shopping. Who’s right?”

John Hodgman: Is Trader Joe’s a supermarket? Interesting.

Jesse Thorn: I mean, John, you’re used to living in New York City where there essentially are not any supermarkets.

John Hodgman: Yeah, it really does hinge on what Ariel and Ariel’s girlfriend’s respective childhood experiences were—in terms of what a real supermarket is. Because, you know— What was a supermarket when you were growing up in San Francisco, Jesse?

Jesse Thorn: I had two very different supermarket experiences. My mother’s house, which was at 15th and Guerrero in the Mission District of San Francisco, was— You know, if we had had a car, there was a Safeway supermarket not that far away near Church and Market. But we did not have a car, so we walked to a co-op grocery store called Rainbow that’s s still there in San Francisco and had to eat carob treats.

(John agrees enthusiastically.)

My father’s house though—first on Godeus Street and just barely Bernal Heights and then on Tiffany Avenue and just barely the Mission—was right behind a Safeway. So, we were less than three quarters of a block from the front door of that Safeway. Safeway: big, traditional, classic grocery store. Not a comically huge one, but like very straight-ahead, traditional American supermarket. So, it was two very different shopping situations. And I think most of the non—most everything that wasn’t that was like a Mexican market that carried Latin American specialty foods, mostly Kern’s Nectar.

John Hodgman: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I grew up with going to the Star Market in Chestnut Hill neighborhood of Brookline in Massachusetts, which is very suburban, very wide aisles. And when I moved to New York City where—you know, there’s not a lot of wide-open space in Manhattan, where I first lived, to be putting in supermarkets—like, grocery stores were shoved into what had once been bank lobbies or old doctor’s offices. And I was like, “Where do you buy a head of lettuce? I only see these dusty cans of Dinty Moore beef stew or whatever.”

[00:45:00]

It was a really different experience. It’s changed to a degree. But even here in Brooklyn, where the streets are wider and the houses are shorter and, all in all, it’s a little bit more Brookline-like than Manhattan, it’s still— You’re bumping shoulders in a Union Market or in my beloved corner market, called The Bad Wife. Like, it’s a small experience. And Trader Joe’s too. I mean, that’s literally in a bank—a former bank over there on Atlantic Avenue and I think Court Street. It’s a different kind of experience than maybe Ariel grew up—(correcting himself) Ariel’s girlfriend, I should say—grew up with. When I think of supermarket I think of either my Star Market when I was growing up or the Safeways that you described—big supermarket chain in the West Coast—or my beautiful Jensen Supermarket in Blue Jay, California on the way up to Mount to Lake Arrowhead. Big, wide aisles and a very suburban overabundance of choice.

I’ll say this about Trader Joe’s. First of all, love it. They should sponsor us. They make a prepackaged Cuban sandwich which—this may be heresy to some, but it’s really quite good. And some of the things there are really terrific. And it’s great for staples. But this thing that Ariel is saying, “Trader Joe’s provides a curated selection of almost everything needed to feed a family.” I will bet—I will bet my own children that Ariel has no children, because that’s not true about Trader Joe’s at all. Trader Joe’s is a great place to shop if you are a bachelor or a bachelorette or you’re a young couple, and you’re gonna be reheating some frozen wontons and watching The Traitors. That, by the way? What a life. What a life you all are leading. Holy moly.

(Jesse agrees sagely.)

You know, it’s affordable by comparison to certain high-end supermarkets, but it’s not a budget-friendly spot for people who are counting their pennies, trying to feed a whole family—particularly, of younger children and teenagers who are just going to eat all the groceries you have within five minutes of you getting them home. It is not a Costco; it is not a bulk purchase place. It is, indeed, curated. But it is curated for, I think, 20-year-olds and childfree 30- to 40-year-olds.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. I watched all of The Wire in 2005/‘06/‘07/and ‘08 or whatever while eating you know frozen wontons from Trader Joe’s.

John Hodgman: Yeah. Oh boy. What a life. What a life!

Jesse Thorn: I mean, trader Joe’s has— Like, as someone who—I generally shop at Trader Joe’s. Not exclusively, but generally. And I have three children. I do have to supplement that shopping. I don’t have to do it every time. But sort of like shopping at the farmers market for your produce, like you have to make a stop every once in a while for Ritz crackers or whatever it is that is your preferred— I mean, I was at Trader Joe’s. I rarely suffer for a staple being missing from Trader Joe’s. But my mother-in-law bought two pie crusts in order to make a quiche, ’cause the pie crust came in a set of two.

John Hodgman: Sure.

Jesse Thorn: And then she accidentally thawed both of them. And so, she panicked and cooked the second one by itself, because she was worried about food safety or something like that.

John Hodgman: Sure.

Jesse Thorn: So, we had this unfilled pie crust sitting in my house. And I had the idea: I’m gonna make like a banana cream pie.

John Hodgman: Ohh! What a great idea!

Jesse Thorn: Yeah? And I’m gonna make the lowest-end banana cream pie in existence, ’cause I already got this pre-made pie crust. I’m just gonna buy some banana pudding and put some banana slices in it. Basically, make a—(chuckling) you know, maybe get some Nilla Wafers or something to make the top. You know?

John Hodgman: Jesse, you know I don’t like sweets, but I wanna put that in my piehole right now. That sounds great.

Jesse Thorn: But then I realized I was headed to Trader Joe’s to do my grocery shopping, not the supermarket-supermarket. And there’s no banana pudding. I buy my Grapenuts that I eat for breakfast—I buy them like three boxes at a time when I happen to be in the Food for Less by my house. Its-It’s is another thing. I buy that at the Food for Less. They haven’t got that at the Trader Joe’s.

So, you know, it’s a— I am inclined, honestly, to agree with Ariel generally speaking. I think it is a, quote/unquote, real supermarket in that you can absolutely feed your family. And I think that Ariel’s girlfriend might reconsider whether she needs to fill in the gaps every time they go grocery shopping.

(John agrees.)

They could get a grocery delivery once a month and cover whatever they can’t get at Trader Joe’s—or stop by the corner market or whatever.

[00:50:00]

But I do understand the point that the girlfriend is making. It is typical that you gotta fill in a hole, here and there.

John Hodgman: There are Trader Joe’s, to be sure, that are bigger and have wider aisles and have a much more supermarket-y form factor. It’s true.

Jesse Thorn: Ough, shout out to that Trader Joe’s on Fair Oaks in South Pasadena. They got a new Trader Joe’s that took over a real supermarket… and, uh—hoooo boy. That is a joy to shop. I went on a Sunday afternoon to Trader Joe’s and had no problems. No lines. There was someone to help bag. One of the big problems with Trader Joe’s, by the way—as with Aldi Supermarkets— Aldi owns Trader Joe’s, the German grocery conglomerate. Union bust—

John Hodgman: Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: Union busters.

John Hodgman: (Sadly.) Oh.

Jesse Thorn: You know, most of the grocery industry is unionized, and Trader Joe’s and Aldi’s are not, and they’ve been very resistant. However—

John Hodgman: Good to know.

Jesse Thorn: That having been said, I love those aisles. And I like that beef and broccoli.

John Hodgman: Yeah, I would say the Trader Joe’s in Brooklyn, where I go, is absolutely not a supermarket. Just doesn’t have that feel to it. There are Trader Joe’s that have a more supermarket-y feel. But I’m just gonna say for point of clarity: no. Trader Joe’s is not a supermarket—not in the way that common sense would understand a supermarket to be. Size is the form factor, but also availability of many different brands. If you’re in Trader Joe’s, you’re locked into their ecosystem. And as delicious as that might be, it is—as you say, Ariel—to its credit, curated. It is specific. You are not gonna be able to get Premium Brand saltines, which are the only ones that work when I’m going to make those Alabama firecrackers. Eh, it’s just not the same.

But that said, shout out to Trader Joe’s. Love them. Come on Judge John— (Reconsidering abruptly.) Well, no. Maybe we don’t want you. You know what, Trader Joe’s? Allow your employees to unionize. How about that?! You’re not a supermarket. Don’t make ’em wear those dopey shirts. Let’s kind of get the last of the weird tiki hut colonialism out of Trader Joe’s. We got it out of our Banana Republic. Let’s move on to Trader Joe’s now.

Jesse Thorn: Are you suggesting that Trader Joe’s switch to sort of a mid-range Eurotrash aesthetic?

John Hodgman: I don’t know.

(They restrain laughter.)

I’m just saying— I’m just saying it’s not a supermarket, even though it’s God-or-Whatever damn delicious, a lot of it. And I just wanna shout out, I don’t love the I don’t love the Hannaford’s in Blue Hill, Maine. They took over what used to be the privately owned Tradewind supermarket, one of the greatest supermarkets of all time—maybe even rivaling my beloved Jensen’s in Blue Jay California. But I will give them credit for playing “No Myth” by Michael Penn on the PA system when I was shopping there over the holidays. That was a delight. Love that song. Love you, Michael Penn. And I enjoyed being on Hannaford’s rotation.

Jesse Thorn: Alright, docket’s clear! That’s it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman!

John Hodgman: Our YouTube commenter of the week is @NatashaGeertz. A rare, actual, human name for their username on YouTube! Natasha watched the episode called “The Fight to Remain Silent” on our YouTube channel. You might recall, this was two friends in the Boston area, one of whom had difficulty not talking all the time—not dominating the conversation. And he brought in a mime to prove his point. Even now, I don’t remember what his argument was for that, but it was deeelightful to have a mime on a podcast.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. What were we gonna say? No?!

John Hodgman: Yeah. And Natasha—

Jesse Thorn: We had a pre-production meeting like, “This is dumb. This is ridiculous. But what are we gonna say? No?!”

John Hodgman: Yeah. And I say, it was a total delight. That mime was incredible. And Natasha agreed. “After years of listening,” Natasha wrote, “I randomly picked this as the first YouTube episode to watch. Definitely more mimes, please! Panels of mimes, a jury of mimes. Mimes.” End of comment.

I agree with that comment. And thank you for joining us on the YouTube. As I mentioned before, more and more people are discovering podcasts through YouTube. So, going to the YouTube channel and checking it out for the often surprise mimes that we’re dropping into the feed and just hitting that subscribe button really helps us spread the word of this podcast. Which is called Judge John Hodgman, by the way.

Jesse Thorn: (Casually.) John, you know the that story about my dad having the vision of the 12 huge men representing every race deciding whether he should live or die?

John Hodgman: It’s truly one of the most remarkable stories of all time. Yes, I remember it.

Jesse Thorn: He didn’t tell me whether they were mimes. So, it’s possible that they were mimes.

John Hodgman: It’s possible they were mimes. A panel of mimes.

Jesse Thorn: It’s possible they were mimes. I actually— I just told a story about my dad on video for social media.

[00:55:00]

And I would say to people out there: check me out on your favorite— I’m on TikTok now. I’m on YouTube. You can search for Jesse Thorn on YouTube. Just posting in shorts on Instagram. And on BlueSky—Instagram and BlueSky and TikTok—it’s all @JesseThornVeryFamous.

John Hodgman: And Jesse, I gotta say, You’re giving Jamelle Bouie a run for his money in the Dapper Video Essayist category.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. (Playfully taunting.) Sorry, JB!

John Hodgman: Boy, oh boy. No one—forget it. No, we’re never gonna be as stylish as Jamelle Bouie. Forget it.

Jesse Thorn: Jamelle Bouie’s the best.

John Hodgman: I’m not even in the running. Even you! You have style, and Jamelle Bouie is still miles ahead of you when it comes to the style game. No offense, Jesse.

Jesse Thorn: I mean, obviously, I know more about Reconstruction than Jamelle Bouie.

John Hodgman: (Snorts.) Anyway!

Jesse Thorn: Jamelle Bouie knows everything about everything.

John Hodgman: (Dreamily.) Jamelle Bouie!

Jesse Thorn: Judge John Hodgman, created by Jesse Thorn and John Hodgman. Megan Rosatti is our social media specialist. I let her in the building today. The podcast, edited— Not to brag. AJ McKeon, our editor. Daniel Speer, our video producer. The show’s produced by Jennifer Marmor. Photos from the show on our Instagram account at Instagram.com/judgejohnhodgman. We’re on TikTok and YouTube at @JudgeJohnHodgmanPod. I enjoy seeing those on TikTok and YouTube. You know, a lot of these apps? They got a little, uh, share button now. They got one on Instagram. You can share videos also on TikTok.

John Hodgman: (Quietly confused.) Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: Hit that share button! Makes a big difference.

John Hodgman: Oh, share. Share. I thought you were saying a chair button, like if you wanna sit down.

Jesse Thorn: No, there’s a share! There’s a Cher button! There’s no Sonny button! (Cartoonish, self-congratulatory laughter.)

John Hodgman: Wooow…

Jesse Thorn: Oh, god, that’s fun! HA!

John Hodgman: We are done! Yeah. Please, go to YouTube and all of our other social media and share some stuff. Leave a comment. Share it with someone who you think might enjoy the podcast. Thanks for your support, as always.

Jesse Thorn: You know, I feel like all the disputes that we get about holidays are about when Christmas starts. I want some Valentine’s Day disputes, St. Patrick’s Day disputes, disputes about whether it’s okay to pinch people who are wearing turquoise!

John Hodgman: What is that a holiday tradition—!?

Jesse Thorn: That would be St. Patrick’s Day, ’cause you can pinch people that aren’t wearing green. But what about turquoise? It’s a blue-green!

John Hodgman: Yeah…

Jesse Thorn: Depends on the mime, I guess.

John Hodgman: Jennifer Marmor wants to know: “Is the McDonald’s Shamrock Shake even good?”

Jennifer Marmor: I don’t wanna know. It is good. But— Does somebody wanna fight me?!

John Hodgman: Yeah! Alright!

(Jesse “ohh!”s with interest.)

Who wants to take it up with Jennifer Marmor?

Let’s hear your springtime holiday disputes, please. That includes Easter and any other ones that you can think of. Send ’em all into MaximumFun.org/jjho—where, indeed, you can send aaall of your disputes! On any theme!

Jesse Thorn: That Shamrock Shake has that classic fast food milkshake problem, which is: if it’s still that viscous when it’s not frozen, (chuckling) that’s a concern for me.

(John agrees.)

Like, it retains its full viscosity at any temperature.

Jennifer Marmor: How long does it take you to drink a milkshake?!

Jesse Thorn: (Shamefully.) Okay. Fair enough.

Look, it’s about the it’s about the carrageenin or the excessive carrageenan or whatever it is. It’s almost chewy.

John Hodgman: It’s all about the carrageenan.

Jennifer Marmor: I don’t care. It’s still good.

Jesse Thorn: Okay. That’s fair.

John Hodgman: Send in all your disputes, no matter what they are—no matter what milkshakes they pertain to or anything at all. MaximumFun.org/jjho. It’s a simple form you can fill out. If you think your dispute is too small, too petty, too weird. Let us decide. Let me be the judge, won’t you? I’m gonna see your disputes as they come through my mailbox, and then we might just hear them on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org/jjho.

Jesse Thorn: John, if you’re out there, and you’re listening—

John Hodgman: Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: —and you don’t you think you don’t have any disputes with anybody? Pick a fight.

John Hodgman: (Laughing.) Okay.

Jesse Thorn: Pick a fight with somebody. MaximumFun.org/jjho. We can’t make the program without you picking fights! We’re pro fight-picking on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org/jjho. Okay, we’ll talk to you next time.

Transition: Three gavel bangs.

Transition: Cheerful ukulele chord.

Speaker 1: Maximum Fun.

Speaker 2: A worker-owned network.

Speaker 3: Of artist owned shows.

Speaker 4: Supported—

Speaker 5: —directly—

Speaker 6: —by you!

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