TRANSCRIPT Judge John Hodgman Ep. 735: The Rule of Make It Two

[00:00:00]

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I am Bailiff Jesse Thorn. We’re clearing the docket this week. I am joined, of course, by the illustrious Judge John Hodgman. Hi, Judge.

John Hodgman: Do I look shiny to you? Is that what you mean? Illustrious?

Jesse Thorn: (Chuckles.) Yes. You need some powder, John.

John Hodgman: I need a little powder?

Jesse Thorn: I went to the Sephora. When we started recording our episodes on video, I went to the Sephora, went up to the counter hat in hand and said, (whimpering) “Is there someone here that can help me with make-ups?”

John Hodgman: Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: And then a very illustrious young man helped me out. (Chuckles.)

John Hodgman: An illustrious young man!

One time I was working on—here’s a bit of showbiz trivia. Hey, Joel Mann up here at WERU in Maine, do you know that I used to be on television sometimes?

(Joel confirms.)

Alright. Anyway, I was on television sometimes. And one time I went on a show, and I was so excited to work on this little TV show, because it starred a very good friend of mine—two very good friends of mine, indeed! A couple of famous podcasters, you might say. Anyone would! Not Time Magazine, but whatever. Neither are we. Cut that. No, leave it in! Double it.

(Jesse laughs.)

Point is way back when I had to go down to Georgia. No, I’m not the devil, nor can I play the fiddle. I was playing second fiddle to a couple of podcasters. And I got in that makeup chair to get my makeup put on, and the co-lead of the show said, “I’m not gonna have any makeup. It’s not for me.”

Do you know who that was?

Jesse Thorn: (Sighs thoughtfully.) I… I genuinely don’t.

John Hodgman: He just went on camera without any makeup on and looked amazing no matter what. His name is Chuck Bryant.

Jesse Thorn: Oh wow.

John Hodgman: And maybe someday he’ll join us here on our podcast.

Jesse Thorn: Why not today, John?

John Hodgman: How could that be though?! Chuck lives in Georgia. I’m up here in Maine with Joel. You’re in Los Angeles. You telling me some kind of technology’s gonna allow us to talk to each other?!

Jesse Thorn: Indeed. Using the power of the internet, joining us on this program is one of the greatest podcasters of all time. Co-host of the podcast Stuff You Should Know, our friend Charles Bryant. Hi, Chuck.

Chuck Bryant: Hey, guys. But also not on Time Magazine’s list of all-time great podcasts. (Laughs.)

Jesse Thorn: I know. I haven’t read the list. Here’s the thing. They made a list of 100 greatest podcasts of all time. I’m pretty sure I’m on the list, but I have not checked the list. So, I’m pretty sure I’m on there. Seems like it would make sense. I’m in the podcasting hall of fame. So, I haven’t looked to see—I haven’t looked to see if I’m on the list, but I presume I’m on the list.

John Hodgman: I gotta say, Chuck—I did look on the list. And I was not surprised, for whatever reason, to see that we were not on the list. Me, John Hodgman. Jesse’s probably on the list somewhere.

Jesse Thorn: Probably.

John Hodgman: ‘Cause he’s got lot of different podcasts.

(Chuck agrees.)

John Hodgman: And Jesse is the guy behind the guy behind the guy who, you know, practically invented podcasts. He practically was an MTV former veejay living in Scandinavia, inventing podcasts.

Jesse Thorn: And eventually becoming a member of the alt-right, I think?

Chuck Bryant: Oh!

John Hodgman: Yeah, that’s why I didn’t wanna say his name. (Laughs.)

Chuck Bryant: I didn’t know that. Alright.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah.

John Hodgman: He practically invented podcasts, until Conan O’Brien came around and reinvented them. But I was very surprised not to see Stuff You Should Know on the list! Because one of the most important podcasts there is—not just in culture, but in the history of podcastin’.

Chuck Bryant: That wasn’t the criteria, John. We might have been on “important”, but this was “best”.

(John snorts into a laugh.)

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, the best is Amy Poehler’s podcast. That’s—in the nine episodes she’s produced, she’s really proved that—

(They laugh.)

She’s great. No one has a problem with Amy Poehler. She’s great.

Chuck Bryant: I know it. I wish it wasn’t Amy Poehler, so I could be more angry. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: I think we might need to hide this one. I think people might need to request this one with an essay question from the library before they get it. ‘Cause now we’re getting into—we’re getting into some dish, some podcastin’ dish.

Jesse Thorn: Right now, Chuck is preparing for an episode about heavy metal. Have you learned anything interesting so far about heavy metal, Chuck?

Chuck Bryant: I mean, that’s a subject I’m well acquainted with. That’s not always the case, of course, with the weird breadth of our topics. But I grew up in an era where there was plenty of that on my radio, so I haven’t learned anything brand new yet.

John Hodgman: And of course, we’re recording this in the wake of the death of one of the pioneers of heavy metal, Ozzy Osbourne.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

John Hodgman: Where were you when you heard the news, Chuck? I was on the inter—I was watching the internet.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, I was at home, and I think somebody texted me. Yeah.

John Hodgman: How’d you take the death of Ozzy Osborne? How’d you feel about it?

Joel Mann: I listened to Black Sabbath in the early days when I was in the Navy School of Music and really liked it. But then I kind of lost track of it.

Jesse Thorn: Refocused on the Field Hippies.

(Joel agrees with a laugh.)

You know, John, speaking of musicians who passed. A legend of Judge John Hodgman passed just recently.

[00:05:00]

John Hodgman: (Sadly.) I know. He passed as well.

Jesse Thorn: Tom Lehrer at the age of 90. The legendary comic singer-songwriter. And I had not shared this previously, because it felt like speaking out of school. But since he is now gone, I thought I would share this little thing on the show. Which is— So, you may remember, John, that when you found out that Tom Lehrer was my professor in college—

John Hodgman: I fell off my chair.

Jesse Thorn: And that his phone number was in the phone book. (Chuckles.)

John Hodgman: Then I climbed back up on my chair and said, “Let’s call it.”

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, my friend, Tyler McNiven, when we were in college called him—looked up his phone number in the phone book, called him, and arranged to come to his house to bring him a gift, which was a pineapple for some reason. I don’t remember why that was. It had something to do with him being a math professor.

But it is gonna be the 25th anniversary of my show Bullseye, formerly The Sound of Young America in the autumn. And people probably know it, I presume, from the 100 greatest podcasts of all-time list. And so, I was gonna do a show in Santa Cruz—still am gonna do a show in Santa Cruz—to celebrate the 25th anniversary. Santa Cruz being where the show started.

John Hodgman: That’s gonna be incredible, by the way.

Jesse Thorn: And so, I messaged Weird Al Yankovic. I sent an email to Weird Al Yankovic, and I said, “Hey, Al.”

John Hodgman: “Dear Weird.”

(Jesse agrees with a chuckle.)

That’s a paraphrase of a Paul F Tompkins joke. I must give credit where credit is due.

Jesse Thorn: “I know that you’re friendly with Tom Lehrer. Do you happen to have his email address? I wanted to invite him on my show, because he was my professor when I was at Santa Cruz.”

He said, “I do have his email address. I’m glad to give it to you. Just so you know, the last couple times I emailed him, he did not email me back.”

So, I was like, whatever. I’m gonna send him an email. What’s the worst that could happen? You know, he just doesn’t email me back. The man’s 97 years old. (Chuckles.) He can do whatever he wants. As he once famously said: “What’s the use of having laurels if you don’t rest on them?”

But anyway, I sent him an email and said, “I’m doing a show in Santa Cruz. I would love for you to come on the show. I used to be in your class. You used to let me plug my show.”—like, I would plug my guests that were coming up on the show in class.

It was very nice. It was a very fun class. And I sent it to his AOL email. And he emailed me back a day later, maybe?

John Hodgman: Aw!

Jesse Thorn: And this is the message that he sent me.

“Hi, Jesse. I can’t find your name on any class lists, but I assume that’s merely due to my faulty record keeping. Anyway, as you have surmised, I have not done any interviews or talk shows in many years.” Many was underlined. “I am now 97, and though vertical and reasonably coherent, will not be doing anything like that in the future.

Thanks for your interest, Tom Lehrer.”

(Laughs.)

John Hodgman: (Sadly.) Aw.

Chuck Bryant: Soft pass.

Jesse Thorn: Anyway, I was grateful to get an email back from Tom Lehrer. He will be well remembered. Let me say that.

John Hodgman: Yeah, absolutely. He and Ozzy Osborne are poisoning pigeons in the park and then biting their heads off in heaven now. No, I was just joking, of course. There’s no heaven. There’s no afterlife.

Jesse Thorn: Should we get into the cases here?

John Hodgman: Let’s get into it. What we’re gonna do today, everybody, is we’re gonna clear the docket of— We’re so happy to have Chuck back, such a good friend. You know, he appeared on the podcast when there was a dispute about whether or not he could widen his dining room door. I don’t even remember how I ruled. But I’ve walked through that wide dining room door. You did widen it, didn’t you?

Chuck Bryant: Yes, sir!

John Hodgman: And it’s beautiful.

Chuck Bryant: Thank you.

John Hodgman: It’s perfect. I hope I ruled the right way. I don’t remember.

Chuck Bryant: I don’t remember either. I’m sure it was great.

John Hodgman: Yeah. I’m usually more of a make-it-wide guy, you know? You know that about me.

Chuck Bryant: Sure.

John Hodgman: And another thing. So, we’re gonna settle some cases that are close to our hearts and interests. And then another thing that some of you may remember is that during the MaxFunCon retreats that we would do at Lake Arrowhead, Chuck and I would frequently co-host an afternoon trivia quiz. And we got very used to— Well, I should say we got very used to asking the questions and one of us got very drunk on power.

(Chuck laughs.)

Jesse Thorn: I remember some, uh, issues and concerns with regard to people getting drunk on other things. (Laughs.) We had to have a talk with the bartenders about slowing down the pace of service.

John Hodgman: And I was like, “No, keep it going. Keep it going.” I may or may not have ordered some people who are out of order to run a lap around the building—which is monstrous, because I can’t run a lap around anything. So, that’s coming up in the third act. But we do have some dockets to clear right now, Jesse!

[00:10:00]

So, what’s the first issue of the day?

Jesse Thorn: Here’s a case from Ian in Baltimore, Maryland.

“When we’re hiking, my partner Kate likes to pick up small keepsakes, ranging from pieces of trash to moss and dead leaves.”

That’s an interesting range.

“Sometimes these are made into thoughtful gifts or put on display in our house, but other times they’re warehoused in drawers. I’d prefer she leave no trace and leave all of these things where she has found them. This search for detritus has become a part of every walk. Help.”

John Hodgman: Mm! Chuck, you’re an outdoors person.

(Chuck confirms.)

I’ve been to your campsite, and you keep a good campsite, Chuck.

Chuck Bryant: That was a good time.

John Hodgman: And even when you’re not at your campsite, you’re always walking around outdoors. What’s your policy on picking up things in the woods?

Chuck Bryant: Well. I mean, it kind of depends on what it is. You know, there’s— What you’re supposed to do as a good steward the earth is to really try not to disturb anything, natural or unnatural. I know you have the problems with the—what are they? The cairns in Maine?

John Hodgman: Yeah. Well, that was in Western Massachusetts. People would build cairns. But it’s controversial here in Maine as well. Cairns are a fancy word for pile of rocks. Artful pile of rocks.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, but you’re not supposed to do that even.

John Hodgman: No. Well, certainly not in the national park known as Acadia National Park. Because they use— The park service builds Cairns to indicate trails. So, if you’re out there building your own Cairns, you could be sending someone off Mr. Magoo-like into the woods to die. So, you don’t wanna do that.

Jesse Thorn: This is not ‘Nam. This is hiking. There are rules.

John Hodgman: Yes. That’s exactly right, Jesse. That’s exactly right. But Chuck, we’re not talking about putting rocks on top of other rocks here. Like, pulling trash outta the woods, probably that’s a good idea. Right?

Chuck Bryant: Oh, yeah. I mean, pulling trash—if you got room. Like, when I’m boating around—as I’m sure you do, John—if you see a beer can in the water, like try and—

John Hodgman: Throw one in so it’s not lonely.

Chuck Bryant: (Laughing.) Right, exactly. It’s the rule of make it two.

Jesse Thorn: (Laughs.) See a one? Make it two! The rule of making it two.

Chuck Bryant: I like that. So yeah, pull all that trash out.

John Hodgman: How often are you seeing beer cans in your lake?

Chuck Bryant: Every time I go out in a boat.

(John grumbles.)

I know. It’s very disappointing.

John Hodgman: You don’t see this in the ocean. The ocean takes it away. The lake holds onto its trash. You know what I mean, lakes.

(Chuck laughs.)

So, what do you think between Kate and her partner, Ian?

Chuck Bryant: Well, I mean, how much is being toted out? Remind me.

Jesse Thorn: Well, everything from pieces of trash to moss and dead leaves.

Chuck Bryant: Well, I mean, she should definitely not take out moss and dead leaves. I mean, that’s part of the natural environment, like I said to begin with. So. Yeah, I mean, pull the trash out!

John Hodgman: Taking strange moss out of the woods also sounds like the beginning of an alien invasion movie. You’re gonna become a moss person. Probably.

(Chuck agrees with a laugh.)

Jennifer Marmor just texted me, Jesse Thorn. She has an important question for us to ask Chuck. Okay. “Leave moss and dead leaves, fine. But what about cool rocks good sticks?”

Jesse Thorn: (Seriously.) Yeah. It’s a great question, Jen.

John Hodgman: Cool rocks and good sticks, Chuck?

Chuck Bryant: That is tough, because I’ve taken a cool stick before. (Laughs.) And probably a cool rock! Well. I don’t even know if I should say this. I took a rock from—a very small rock from Big Pink, the house where the band lived when they lived in Woodstock and were recording with Bob Dylan.

John Hodgman: Oh, wow!

Chuck Bryant: The legendary music house? I’ve been there a couple of times in Woodstock. And I took a very small rock with intention of painting that rock somehow to later go back and put it on Levon Helm’s grave.

John Hodgman: Oh! You’re completing a psychic circle, a cultural circle.

Chuck Bryant: That’s how I justified it. (Chuckles.)

John Hodgman: As opposed to an ecological circle?

(Chuck agrees.)

Yeah. I once stole a rock from Levon Helm’s grave.

Chuck Bryant: Well, you gotta reverse that. And then you can give me that rock, so I can make it two.

John Hodgman: Yeah, you gotta make it two! So, anyway. Katie, you know, leave the moss and the dead leaves alone. Take out the trash. Leave the organic material.

Jesse Thorn: Should she keep the trash in her special drawer?!

John Hodgman: Yes. Keep the trash in your special trash drawer. Or! Turn it into a nice gift. But I would leave the other organic material behind. You’re not— You’re supposed to leave no trace.

Jesse Thorn: We’re gonna take a quick break to hear from this week’s partners. We’ll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

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Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

[00:15:00]

We’re clearing the docket with our friend Chuck Bryant from the smash hit podcast Stuff You Should Know. Chuck, you also were the host of the podcast Movie Crush. I was a guest on that podcast. I had a great time.

John Hodgman: What’d you talk about?

Jesse Thorn: I think we talked about A Thousand Clowns, didn’t we, John? I mean Chuck.

John Hodgman: Oh yeeeah.

Chuck Bryant: Absolutely. Yeah, that was— I really enjoyed that episode, because people don’t often get to hear about your story.

Jesse Thorn: Thank you. We have a movie related case for you, John, from Johanna in Atlantaaa!

“When I see a movie in theaters, I want to leave when the movie ends, but my partner likes staying for after credit scenes. The after credits trend is offensive to me. I think these scenes are bad and unnecessary, but my partner wants to get 100% of the content he paid for. Please let me leave during the credits.”

John Hodgman: Chuck, you remember when I was first on Movie Crush?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, I believe we covered a Marvel film.

(John confirms.)

And continue to.

(They laugh.)

John Hodgman: Yeah. You were like, “What movie do you want to talk about?”

I’m like, “I don’t know.”

He is like, “What’s your favorite movie?”

And I’m like, “Marvel’s The Avengers,” which is the official title of the movie. And I feel like you lost some respect for me that day.

Chuck Bryant: Well, I knew it was The Third Man. I just—

John Hodgman: No, not anymore. The Third Man—

Chuck Bryant: (Laughing.) Okay, now it’s The Avengers?

John Hodgman: Yeah. Marvel’s The Avengers. Anyway. Marvel is credited—or blamed, I think—for the explosion of post credit scenes. What do you think about them in popular culture? Chuck, are you pro or con?

Chuck Bryant: Well, I mean, you know. I stick around and watch him. I will agree a little bit with the person who wrote in that they’re often not very good anymore. I kind of appreciate them more when they tease maybe something coming up, and it’s not just some kind of dumb joke. But there’s been a couple of the dumb joke ones that— I think one of the Avengers, where they’re sitting around eating tacos or something?

John Hodgman: That’s in Marvel’s The Avengers!

Chuck Bryant: The first one? Yeah, yeah. That was kind of funny, I think.

John Hodgman: They come back to them, and they pay off a sort of a joke at the end of the climax, when Tony Stark says, “Let’s get some shawarma after this.”

Chuck Bryant: Oh, shawarma, that’s right.

John Hodgman: And then you see them all eating shawarma together silently, which was sort of fun.

Jesse Thorn: I’ll tell you what! I saw Marvel’s The Avengers, John.

John Hodgman: Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: Didn’t know about that after credit sequence. Why? (Chuckles.) I stopped watching when the credits rolled!

Chuck Bryant: Ah, okay. You’re outta there?

Jesse Thorn: (Blows a raspberry.) Later for you, Marvel’s The Avengers.

(Chuck laughs.)

Congratulations on being a B minus.

Chuck Bryant: Two for you—middle fingers!

John Hodgman: Wow. Yeah. Make it two. (Laughs.)

Jesse Thorn: It was all right. It wasn’t the worst.

John Hodgman: Ah, I still love it. But yeah, I would say that there have been quite a few bummer, non-starter and barely-ender end credits or post credit scenes where you’re just like, “Why did I stick around for this one?”

Chuck Bryant: Yeah. And it’s a while. Those credits—you know, those movies, there’s so many people now. It’s a lot of minutes, (chuckling) I feel like, spent sitting there.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, you just have to sit through just a scroll of 700 Czech people who worked on one location shoot.

Chuck Bryant: (Laughs.) Yeah, totally.

Jesse Thorn: Just Vladislav this and that for 20 minutes, because they shot one scene in Czechoslovakia.

John Hodgman: I was just gonna say, like if there’s one thing that the end credit sequences do do is that they force you to sit around and stock of how many talented craftspeople are working on these movies. I think that that’s kind of valuable.

Chuck Bryant: You mean sit on your phone until the scene starts? (Giggles.)

John Hodgman: I mean, I know that Jesse notoriously hates the Czech Nation and all the people who live and work in entertainment there, but—

Jesse Thorn: (Chuckling.) Czech yourself before you wreck yourself. That’s what I say. I watched—speaking of bad jokes, I watched the new Naked Gun movie the other day. Which—it was a joy. I really enjoyed it.

John Hodgman: Oh, Okay! I’m so happy to hear that.

Jesse Thorn: And the new Naked Gun movie, I would encourage people to stay through the credits. But it’s because they have just put a bunch of dumb jokes into the credits. And it’s great, because it’s not like there’s a joke every fourth credit. It’s like there’s a joke every 20th credit. (Laughs.) And so, they just put in just enough jokes to make you watch the credits. But they’re great. They’re all great jokes. It’s really funny. And they go all the way through. It’s a delight.

Chuck Bryant: Or bloopers, you know. John—

Jesse Thorn: (Loudly.) Oh, bloopers is a whole other story!

Chuck Bryant: Yeah. We recently watched the— I had never seen them before. Somehow they got by me, but the Shanghai Noon and Shanghai Nights films with our daughter. And I thought they were really fun and funny, and they had bloopers.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah! Those movies own. Those rule. Sorry, people that like The Avengers and don’t like (laughing) Shanghai Noon.

[00:20:00]

But I love Shanghai Noon!

Chuck Bryant: It was very funny, I thought.

Jesse Thorn: And the bloopers of any movie involving Jackie— I mean, first of all, I love bloopers in general.

(They agree.)

If you have good bloopers, put ’em in there! I’m gonna love it.

John Hodgman: Yeah, bloop them!

Chuck Bryant: Burt Reynolds. Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: But the bloopers of a Jackie Chan movie are often the best part of a movie, and that’s in the context of the fact that almost all Jackie Chan movies rule.

John Hodgman: Yeah.

Chuck Bryant: I’m with you.

John Hodgman: Yeah. More bloopers please. Fewer teasing of universe expansion, I’m gonna say.

Chuck Bryant: Agreed.

John Hodgman: Because I feel like, you know, no one likes being teased. And I don’t know that all of these movies have delivered on their post credit sequence. So, I approach them with a lot more skepticism. And if I get to the end of the credits and it’s a kind of a dud, it leaves me with a real ill will, I would say.

Jesse Thorn: I would say there’s a universal truth that no one likes being teased, and everyone likes seeing someone catch it in the jewels.

(They laugh.)

Which is why we should be pro bloops and anti-teases.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: Okay, here’s a case from Sarah in Baltimore, Maryland.

“I love to cook. I make dinner 99% of the time in our home. My partner, Ben, never says anything about how delicious dinner is.”

(John “whoa”s disapprovingly.)

“He does say thank you when served, but that’s it. He just eats his delicious meal with no acknowledgement of its tastiness. I think if someone cooks for you, you should throw them a little, ‘This is good.’ The silence makes me feel like a maid. And can you imagine a dinner party where no one compliments the food?! Even if everyone is fibbing! I would like an order that Ben has to say the food is good when I cook. It is always good, so he wouldn’t be lying.”

John Hodgman: Sarah and Ben in Baltimore, Maryland. Charm City. Chuck, you do most of the cooking in your household, I imagine?

Chuck Bryant: For many, many years I did. But I have to correct the record and can’t let that stand, because Emily has really learned and enjoys cooking now.

John Hodgman: Oh, great!

Chuck Bryant: And yeah, but we both enjoy cooking.

John Hodgman: It’s a delight. Is there ever a situation in which Emily or your daughter would scarf down food that you made for them and not acknowledge that you did a good job, and it tastes good?

Chuck Bryant: It seems very, very, very strange to me that somebody—at all, but much less that you’re in a relationship with—would not ever say anything about the quality of the cooking. That’s a very weird thing to do.

John Hodgman: I mean, do you think that maybe Sarah’s food is secretly terrible?

Chuck Bryant: Well, that was my first thought, for sure.

John Hodgman: And Ben is one of those people who goes, “I’m not a liar. I will not tell a lie for social convenience.”

Chuck Bryant: Yeah. (Mockingly smug.) “Would you rather me be honest?”

John Hodgman: Yeah. I trust—Sarah, I trust your food is good. But Jesse, have you ever been to a situation where you have to lie, where you’re over at someone’s house and the food doesn’t taste good? I mean, the macaroni’s soggy. The peas are mushed, and the chicken tastes like wood. Have you ever been in one of those situations?

Jesse Thorn: (Laughs.) Well, first of all, I’m not invited to anyone’s house ever.

John Hodgman: Oh, come on.

Jesse Thorn: So, it doesn’t come up really. I would say… my general feeling about this is— I make almost all of the grownup food in my house. My children don’t eat anything. And so, my wife is generally in charge of trying to intuit what fruit they’re willing to put into their mouths on any given day. But when I cook—and I often cook for my in-laws as well, ’cause they’re often at my house. They’re probably at my house half the time. I really appreciate a thank you. I wouldn’t expect a “this food is delicious” every time. But I do appreciate a sincere “this food is delicious,” in no small part because it helps me understand what food the people I’m cooking for actually enjoy.

John Hodgman: Right! Yeah. And you know, obviously the standard for candid feedback is different in a marriage or a cohabitating partnership or a love situation than it is in, say, if you’re invited over to the boss’s house for dinner or whatever. That’s not what you wanna offer your negative feedback.

Chuck Bryant: (Laughs.) That’d be kind of fun though. You’re at the boss’s house.

Jesse Thorn: Ugh, Theresa’s boss came over, and I burnt the casserole.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah.

John Hodgman: But you know, I think— You know, like Chuck, I presume that if Emily had some feedback that was like, “That didn’t wasn’t my favorite,” you would be able to accept that? No?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, yeah. We’ll both ask each other specifically, especially when we’re trying new things—which we do a lot.

[00:25:00]

She likes to get out the cookbook and that kind of thing.

John Hodgman: Ben, you’re doing it wrong. You gotta give Sarah some feedback here. Even if you’re choking down food that you think is disgusting, you need to find a polite way to say, “This is not for me,” so that Sarah can adjust. But my bet is that it is delicious, and you are just taking the food and Sarah for granted. So, don’t do it. Make it two. Thank her twice.

Jesse Thorn: Let’s take a break. When we come back, we will have some obscure cultural references for John and Chuck.

John Hodgman: Now that’s the kind of tease I like!

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

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Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: We’re taking a quick break from the case, but Chuck’s still here with us. Chuck, you’re the host of Stuff You Should Know. You guys got anything exciting coming up on the program?

Chuck Bryant: Well, we’re not doing live shows this year, but we are recording an episode on heavy metal tomorrow, which should be pretty fun. I believe that’s gonna be a two-parter. And what else? We did one recently on the circular economy.

(John “ooh!”s.)

Jesse Thorn: What does that mean?!

Chuck Bryant: The circular economy is what we should strive for. The linear economy is what we have now, which is: source a material, make a thing, sell that thing, throw that thing away. And the circular economy would, source sustainably, create things that can be repaired and fixed. And if it can’t be repaired or fixed, then those constituent parts can usually be recycled or reused in some way. So.

Jesse Thorn: I thought the circular economy was hula hoops. You know, for the kids?

John Hodgman: You know, for the kids.

Chuck Bryant: (Laughing.) Yeah, for kids. Yeah, those are just a couple of recent ones.

John Hodgman: Hey folks, if you have not listened to Stuff You Should Know, you’ve made a horrible error for several years now. It’s Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant talking about interesting topics—one topic each week—pulling it apart and telling you all kinds of things you didn’t know about it. As Jesse Thorn has pointed out, it’s the perfect title for a podcast, because it is at the same time an invitation and a rebuke! Why don’t you know this already?!

(Chuck laughs.)

Well, you better go listen and find out. It’s one of my favorite podcasts, and I listen to it all the time.

Chuck Bryant: Thanks, man. Like we like to say, we cover everything from heavy metal to the circular economy.

John Hodgman: That’s right.

(They laugh.)

That’s been the motto for almost a decade, and it’s never truer than this coming week.

Jesse Thorn: I actually had a couple of heavy rock guests recently on Bullseye with Jesse Thorn, my NPR program. The week that this episode is out, we will have just released an interview with two of the members of the band Fishbone.

Chuck Bryant: Ah! I saw that picture.

Jesse Thorn: The punk rock/ska/funk/occasionally a little metal. A broad variety. Every kind of music is basically inside of Fishbone.

Chuck Bryant:

Jesse Thorn: Man! It was Chris and Angelo, for Fishbone fans out there. Just the most fascinating, amazing guys, and an incredible story of an incredible band. Also, a few weeks ago, a favorite of many MaxFun fans—the band PUP. The punk rock band PUP were on the program. A lot of people—a lot of big PUP fans out there. And not to brag, but one of the pup guys told me he’s a big MaxFun guy. So.

Chuck Bryant: Oh, cool!

Jesse Thorn: There you go. A couple of real rock and roll stars. Plus, one that I really, really liked—I just listened to it, the final product, that I really, really liked—was a guy called Eugenio Derbez, who is— He was essentially the biggest comedy star in— I was about to say Mexico, but probably all of Latin America. Huge, huge TV star and occasionally movie star. Not a lot of, you know, local comedy movie production in Latin America, but both. And in his 40s, he moved to the United States and decided to make a career in American showbusiness, and has done pretty incredibly well. Like, he made a movie that was the highest grossing Spanish language movie of all time immediately upon moving to the United States and has been making a really charming show on Apple TV+ called Acapulco.

But I talked to him about why he would decide to give up being the biggest movie star in, you know, 25% of the world in order to move to the United States. And I talked to him about being a Mexican American immigrant in the United States right now and lots of fascinating things. He’s a very, very fascinating man, and also far too handsome to be a comedian. His mom apparently was like the biggest telenovela star of her era. And I was like, “Oh, yeah. Well, that’s why you’re so freaking handsome.”

[00:30:00]

He told me that the rumor was that she could cry out of one eye—Daniel Speer knows exactly, (chuckling) he’s pointing to it! She could cry out of either eye, depending on which side the camera was on.

Chuck Bryant: Oh wow, that’s incredible.

John Hodgman: Bullseye, of course, is available wherever you get your podcasts, at MaximumFun.org. It’s also carried by a number of NPR stations. And you know, you may have heard in the news that Congress has ceded its power of the purse in order to allow the current administration to claw back many, many millions of dollars from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. And that’s been presented to you mostly in the context of the hit that will be taken by NPR and PBS and its local affiliates. And all of that is really sort of shameful and troubling, in my humble opinion. But one place where these cuts are also going to be profoundly disruptive are at radio stations like WERU. Isn’t that right, Joel?

Joel Mann: Yes. It’s most community radio stations, especially in rural areas. Because we don’t—we’ve been supported for 35 years the audience plus these grants. And it’s had a devastating effect already.

John Hodgman: So, you had told me the other day that you anticipate that you’re gonna lose a third of your budget due to these cuts.

Joel Mann: Yes. Yep, that’s right.

John Hodgman: And so, you’re gonna be facing some very hard decisions here at WERU, in terms of staffing and, uh—yeah.

Joel Mann: (Sadly.) Yeah. Yep, yep. Gotta look at the revenue, gotta look at the expenses and try and figure it out.

John Hodgman: And even though you are solar powered, this is not a lavish operation.

Joel Mann: No. No, not at all.

John Hodgman: No. I mean, when I come in, you have that big bucket of caviar, but I’m paying for that.

(They chuckle.)

That’s coming out of my rider. That’s different. Yeah.

Joel Mann: No, it’s not a good thing. And it’s really gonna diminish a lot of good programming. Our audience does our programming. We have shows about infant care, doing business, really good community stuff. Fisheries, talk of the town. Very great shows, but uh…

John Hodgman: It’s not all Joe Byrd & The Field Hippies. This is a true community-supported station, not just with donations but with talent on the air.

(Joel agrees.)

Freeform DJing, which you almost never get to hear anywhere else these days. And I don’t mean to say that it’s not special, but WERU is not alone among community radio stations that are gonna be feeling this bite very, very strongly over the coming year and going forward. You know. So, I don’t know what to say. We’re in this situation now. It’s never been a better time than to go to WERU.org and listen to this station that’s been such a great host to this podcast for, you know, years and years now—almost a decade.

(Joel confirms.)

And in the summertime, I’m very, very fond of my summer chambers and Joel Mann and everyone here at WERU. So, if you haven’t had a chance to listen to the station, it’s great! I mean, it is a great station. I have it on all the time at home. WERU.org. You can listen to it wherever you like, and obviously if you have the means to add some support to the station, they never—you know, now is a— They couldn’t use it more than now.

Jesse Thorn: I would really encourage people to take this opportunity to join their local public radio stations, whether or not they’re NPR stations. I’ll give a shout out to one of my favorite radio stations in the country, which is not an NPR station, KPOO in San Francisco. KPOO is the only Black owned and operated public radio station west of The Rockies and is the radio station that I grew up listening to for music. Shout out to JJ on the radio.

But wherever you are, there’s probably great community radio. And if you live in a place that is relatively starved for media—such as a rural place, for example—probably community radio is some of the only local media you have access to. Certainly some of the only local Broadcast media that you have access to. So, make sure that you’re supporting that. Because this is— You know, for many years, public radio and television have emphasized their other sources of revenue, because—you know, we don’t want to be a political football, basically. But the reality is that while many outlets will probably survive this, they will survive it in a very compromised state, ’cause these are really serious hits to revenue—whether they’re direct to, you know, NPR and PBS or whether they’re traveling to stations through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. These are really big punches in the gut, so please become a member of your local public radio stations.

John Hodgman: Let’s get back to the docket.

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast with our guest, Chuck Bryant.

[00:35:00]

Are you guys ready for some trivia? Since you are already the self-proclaimed kings of trivia. (Beat.) You’ve never proclaimed that.

(They laugh.)

Sorry, Ken! Here’s our first obscure cultural reference from Ron Rule.

“I have arms. I am a bush with arms. And legs! I am the first bush in history with legs! I can walk! Oh, gaze ye unbelievers upon this miracle, this walking bush! Half man, half plant. He dwells in two worlds, but he is the master of both. Oh man-bush, you are nature’s greatest wonder.”

That was a cold read. I did not prep that.

Chuck Bryant: Really? Wow.

John Hodgman: Wow!

Jesse Thorn: That’s a cold read, Chuck.

John Hodgman: What, did you go to an art high school?

Jesse Thorn: SAG eligible.

Chuck Bryant: I have no idea what this is.

Jesse Thorn: I’ll give you guys a hint. If you don’t know this one, you’re definitely not Justin McElroy.

(They laugh.)

John Hodgman: Is this a quote from a McElroy podcast?

Jesse Thorn: No, it is not.

John Hodgman: Is this a quote from a movie?

Jesse Thorn: This is a quote from a movie of which Justin is a legendary fan.

Chuck Bryant: Oh! Wait a minute. Well, no, that was Griffin. Because I had Griffin on Movie Crush. Oh, I think I had Justin on!

John Hodgman: Is this from Paul Blart: Mall Cop?

Jesse Thorn: It’s not from Paul Blart: Mall Cop, but it’s (chuckling) not that far from being from Paul Blart: Mall Cop.

John Hodgman: Everyone must make a guess.

Jesse Thorn: Chuck, what’s your guess?

John Hodgman: You gotta guess something.

Chuck Bryant: Nooo. I don’t know. Griffin was Groundhog Day. I can’t remember if I had Justin on, ’cause it would’ve been his pick. So, I’m gonna say Happy Gilmore.

Jesse Thorn: That’s from The Stupids from 1996.

John Hodgman: Ohhh, The Stupids.

Jesse Thorn: Starring Tom Arnold. Can I just say? If you wanna listen to an unbelievable human being talk, go back into the archives of Bullseye with Jesse Thorn and listen to my interview with Tom Arnold. Because that man is unreal. A good, bad, and everything in between. Like, just everything. He’s just everything.

He told this story about—he just busted into this story about working at an abattoir that involved this enormous hog and a man dying before his eyes. And you’re just like, “WHAA?!” And that was, I think, before he even told me about how Andy Kaufman personally inspired him to go into comedy. (Chuckles.)

(They react with surprise.)

On the streets of Iowa, where Tom Arnold is from.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, you can really see the influence.

John Hodgman: Yeah, that time Tom Arnold read the entirety of The Great Gatsby live to a college audience.

Jesse Thorn: Tom Arnold is a sincerely fascinating human being. Very seriously, you should go listen to that. ‘Cause he is— I’m obsessed with Tom Arnold now.

Okay, here’s one from NewExplanation6764.

“Podcasts don’t change. We simply become more comfortable with our core misery. Which in itself is a form of happiness.”

John Hodgman: Are you performing it in the style of the filmed entertainment?

Jesse Thorn: I’m performing it in the style of celebrated SAG eligible voice actor Jesse Thorn.

John Hodgman: Jesse Thorn. Alright.

Jesse Thorn: Available for casting. Contact Josh LinGrin at the Creative Artist Agency.

Chuck Bryant: Heeey. That one does sound very familiar.

John Hodgman: The real quote is “not podcasts don’t change.” It’s “lives don’t change.”

Jesse Thorn: That’s correct.

John Hodgman: “We simply become more comfortable with our core misery, which in itself is a form of happiness.” Joel, is that the charter for WERU 89.9 FM in Orland, Maine?

Joel Mann: The voice of many happy voices.

John Hodgman: That’s right. The voice of many happy voices. Do you recognize that from a movie or a TV show?

Joel Mann: Nope, not a clue.

John Hodgman: Alright, alright. Well, I guess the charter of WERU.

Jesse Thorn: I’ll give you a hint. This one comes from the television program that was created and showrun by a guest of MaxFunCon… who kicked everyone’s butt at softball.

Chuck Bryant: Oh! Uh—OH!

John Hodgman: Oh! Oh!

Chuck Bryant: It’s gotta be Bored to Death.

Jesse Thorn: It’s from Bored to Death.

John Hodgman: Yeah. I was just gonna get it! Oh, wow. Jonathan Ames!

Jesse Thorn: Shout out to secret jock Jonathan Ames. (Chuckles.)

Chuck Bryant: Once you dropped the softball reference, I was like, “I remember that!” (Laughs.)

Jesse Thorn: When he showed off his guns, it was like, “WHOA!”

John Hodgman: Yeah, he was a collegiate fencer.

Jesse Thorn: That’s correct.

John Hodgman: An accomplished— I don’t remember whether he fenced epee or saber or what, but he was good at fencing, and he was a Ralph Lauren model!

Jesse Thorn: Yep.

John Hodgman: Many lives has lived Jonathan Ames.

Chuck Bryant: Also a Movie Crush guest. I don’t know why I’m plugging a long-dead show, but he was one of the great guests.

John Hodgman: Do you remember what movie he was into?

Chuck Bryant: Bat City.

John Hodgman: Bat City?! I don’t even know what that movie is!

Jesse Thorn: A noir from the ‘50s?

Chuck Bryant: I think it was about gambling. It was a like a ‘70s movie about gambling.

[00:40:00]

John Hodgman: 1972, John Houston. It says here.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah. Yeah. Very Jonathan Ames-y kind of pick, though, isn’t it?

John Hodgman: Starring Stacy Keach, Jeff Bridges, Susan Tyrrell and Candy Clark in her film debut.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, that’s right.

John Hodgman: That was a good one! Hey, Bored to Death, that was a great experience. Thank you for making me remember it, NewExplanation6764. I think you’re terrific. I’ll make it two. I think you’re terrific.

Jesse Thorn: Alright, here’s one from BaltaNerdist. BaltaNerdist is a real regular on the Reddit.

“There are places that contain you. There are corners in your soul, plastic laminations in your life. But when you’re on the inside of the outside of your thoughts, do they restrain? Or do you stay yourself? Now, the inside of the near place is the outside of the far. But you can only face your space one way.”

John Hodgman: I think this is William Shatner performing the song “Nightmare Train” from the album The American Metaphysical Circus by Joe Byrd & The Field Hippies. Am I right? (Beat.) Joel, am I right?!

Jesse Thorn: You’re not—you’re not that far off.

Joel Mann: (Chuckling.) No. No.

John Hodgman: This is some pretty metaphysical stuff though.

Jesse Thorn: Chuck, I’ll give you the further quote. “You’re really in the middle of the inside of yourself, and there is only one thing we can say. You’ll never get out. You’ll never get out. You’ll never get out of the cube.”

John Hodgman: Is it the movie The Cube?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, that was gonna be my guess.

Jesse Thorn: It is “The Cube” by Jim Henson from 1969.

Chuck Bryant: Oh! Different cube.

John Hodgman: I know. I was thinking of the kind of B-rated horror movie, The Cube.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, I saw that.

Jesse Thorn: It’s sort of a Beatles parody apparently.

Chuck Bryant: Huh. Okay. Geez!

John Hodgman: That’s some pretty obscure culture. I must give BaltaNerdist some credit there.

Jesse Thorn: Here’s one from Proctoplegia.

“One of my New Year’s resolutions is to say yes. Yes to love! Yes to life! Yes to staying in more!”

Chuck Bryant: Mm, that’s a pretty good joke.

Jesse Thorn: It’s a pretty good joke. And I’ll give you guys a hint. It’s from the source of all the best jokes.

Chuck Bryant: Well, I mean. I know this is probably not right, but maybe it was just your read once again, Jesse—fantastic job.

Jesse Thorn: Thank you.

Chuck Bryant: But it gave off vibes of Tina Fey in 30 Rock.

John Hodgman: Yeah. It feels like 30 Rock.

Jesse Thorn: Bingo. Nailed it.

Chuck Bryant: Is it really?!

Jesse Thorn: Yep. (Claps.)

Chuck Bryant: Wooow! Hey, that’s all you, buddy.

John Hodgman: No, I—wow. I drafted off of you there, Chuck, but you got that one. So— I would not have gotten there.

Jesse Thorn: Can I just say? I’ve been watching 30 Rock with my daughter. The amount of funny that it is is unmatched in literally any other television program ever made.

Chuck Bryant: It’s off the charts.

Jesse Thorn: Including early seasons of The Simpsons, which are maybe a little bit better at having feelings in a funny way. But I will just be sitting there, and I have to pause the show to text my wife things from 30 Rock. So, I’m literally— I just opened my text messages. Last night I texted her that Colleen—Elaine Stritch’s character, Jack’s mom on 30 Rock—she plays bingo at Our Lady of Reluctant Integration in Waltham, Mass.”

Chuck Bryant: (Dissolving into laughter.) Oh god!

Jesse Thorn: And then— This is just like three text messages earlier. Kenneth had had to go to take care of Tracy’s wife, and he’s standing on the kitchen island while Tracy’s dog— Tracy Sr.—(laughs) barks and terrifies him. And Tracy comes in and says, “Sorry, Ken, that’s my dog, Tracy Sr.; I trained him to bite White people. Because—not to profile—but most ghosts are white!”

(They laugh.)

And then there’s— Here goes another one. This is literally like the last 10 text messages to my wife. This is all I do is text her a thing I just saw in 30 Rock. The other one is Griz and Dotcom are trying to decide who is gonna— I can’t remember who’s getting married, Griz or Dotcom. These are Tracy Jordan’s bodyguards. And they’re trying to decide whether Tracy or the other one is gonna be the best man at the wedding. And one of them says to the other, “Man, we’ve been friends since we were kids, when we met at Above the Beanstalk, the summer camp for giants.”

(They laugh.)

Chuck Bryant: I remember that line! Can I read you my favorite—or one of my favorite 30 Rock lines?

(They agree.)

This was— I’m not gonna do my Tracy Morgan, even though it’s pretty great, but— “You don’t have to thank me, Lemon. We’re a team now. Like Batman and Robin, like chicken and a chicken container.”

(They laugh.)

John Hodgman: Well, we can’t just read 30 Rock quotes!

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know…

Chuck Bryant: I would like to! That’s like a podcast to me.

[00:45:00]

John Hodgman: Although if we wanted to have a successful podcast, that would probably be the way to do it.

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, exactly. Get on that best list.

John Hodgman: Yeah, there you go.

Jesse Thorn: I mean, Tina Fey’s podcast where she just reads 30 Rock quotes is probably in that top 100. Alright. Here’s one from Galloptius.

“I’ll tell you what I told Tony Bennett. Sing songs people already know! That way they’ll still have something to applaud.”

John Hodgman: “Tell you what I—” Is it a movie?

Jesse Thorn: It’s a film. It’s a film directed by one of the greatest comic minds of the 20th century.

Chuck Bryant: Alright, can you read it again?

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, I’ll read it again. (Chuckling.) Do you want a different flavor on that?

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, different read.

Jesse Thorn: (In a cartoonish New York accent.) “Hey, I’ll tell you what I told Tony Bennett. Sing songs people already know! That way they’ll still have some to applaud!”

John Hodgman: One of the greatest comedic minds…

Chuck Bryant: Yeah, that’s a good hint (unclear).

Jesse Thorn: Of the 20th century.

John Hodgman: 20th century.

Jesse Thorn: But this is a film. This person is still alive, but has only had the opportunity to make a short list of films. And the failure of this film is one of the reasons that they didn’t have an opportunity to make more.

John Hodgman: I got it! I got it!

Chuck Bryant: Is it Bobcat Goldthwaitt? No?

Jesse Thorn: It is not Bobcat Goldthwaitt, who’s made a lot of movies as director, and many of them are very good.

Chuck Bryant: Alright. Yeah. Alright. I don’t know.

John Hodgman: Jesse, is the director Elaine May?

Jesse Thorn: Yes.

John Hodgman: It’s the movie Ishtar.

Jesse Thorn: It is! It is.

Chuck Bryant: Wow! Okay. Good pull!

John Hodgman: I can’t believe I got one!

Chuck Bryant: Nice!

Jesse Thorn: That’s from Jack Weston’s character, Marty Freed. There really are a lot of these.

John Hodgman: Jack Weston. I thought that sounded like a Jack Weston line.

Jesse Thorn: Here’s one from ReallyCoolGuy.

John Hodgman: I’ll decide.

Jesse Thorn: “Hootie-tootie, disco cutie! HOOTIE-TOOTIE! DISCO CUTIE!”

(They laugh.)

John Hodgman: Hootie-tootie, disco cutie. Hootie-tootie, disco cutie.

Jesse Thorn: Jennifer liked that real.

John Hodgman: Was it the quote under Joel Mann’s high school yearbook photo?

(They laugh.)

Chuck Bryant: God, I can picture that now. It’s making me laugh even more. I can see it on the page.

John Hodgman: Joel, you ever go disco dancing?

Joel Mann: Nnno.

John Hodgman: When you were in—(laughs). No? Okay.

(Joel laughs.)

Fair enough.

Chuck Bryant: Not even when it was the thing to do!?

John Hodgman: Nnno.

Chuck Bryant: Okay. I definitely don’t know this.

John Hodgman: Hootie-tootie, disco cutie. Rootie-tootie, fresh and fruity is a staple at IHOP. But hootie-tootie, disco cutie…

Chuck Bryant: I mean, if it’s a— Saturday Night Fever? Of course not.

John Hodgman: No The unauthorized biography of Debbie Harry?

Chuck Bryant: 54, the movie about Studio 54 with Mike Myers?

John Hodgman: Is it from a movie?

Jesse Thorn: It’s from a movie. I’ve never heard of this movie.

John Hodgman: Alright. Wellll, I’m stumped. Joel, do you know it?

Jesse Thorn: You still have to guess, John! You know the rules!

Joel Mann: The lyrics from “Disco Duck”.

John Hodgman: Ohhh, Rick Dees’s “Disco Duck”!

Jesse Thorn: It’s a great guess, and I just want to give a shout out to— I used to go get pupusas at a place called La Pupusa Loca. It may even be—that might be one of those weird Spanish words where it’s an L even though it ends in an A.

John Hodgman: Right, El Pupusa Loca?

Jesse Thorn: Daniel Speer, you know the answer to that one? Daniel doesn’t know. He’s baffled. We gotta ask Christian Dueñas. He’s Salvadoran.

Right across the street was this strip mall, and you could see it out the window of La Pupusa Loca. And it had that kind of like stacked sign that a strip mall will have for all the different businesses. And one of them—although sadly, this business was long defunct—was a bar called Disco Duck Boogie & Cocktails.

(They laugh.)

Oh man.

John Hodgman: I’d go there.

Chuck Bryant: I would totally go there.

Jesse Thorn: I know! That would be my regular, and I don’t even drink.

John Hodgman: You would’ve heard Joel Mann laugh at that too if I hadn’t ordered him to turn his microphone off. Sorry, Joel.

Jesse Thorn: Our docket is clear! That’s it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Judge John Hodgman, created by Jesse Thorn and John Hodgman. Our social media manager is Dan Telfer. Our podcast is edited by AJ McKeon. Daniel Speer is our video producer. Our show is produced by Jennifer Marmor. Photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account at Instagram.com/judgejohnhodgman. We’re also on TikTok and YouTube at @JudgeJohnHodgmanPod. Follow and subscribe to see our episodes and video only content. Thank you this week to our friend Charles “Chuck” Bryant, host of the Stuff You Should Know podcast, which you probably already know about, because it’s much more popular than our podcast.

(John chuckles.)

Chuck Bryant: Thanks, guys. We’ve been friends and colleagues for a long time now. It’s kind of cool to think about, and I always love coming on.

Jesse Thorn: Very grateful to be friends with you, Chuck. I look forward to sleeping in your pool house once again in the future.

Chuck Bryant: Yes!

[00:50:00]

John Hodgman: And here’s what I have to say, vis-a-vis what Jesse just said: make it two.

Chuck Bryant: Make it two. (Chuckles.)

John Hodgman: Double that. Love you, Chuck.

Hey, you know what I saw? I’m up here in Maine, Chuck. I had to go to the drug store to get some anti acid reflux medicine.

Chuck Bryant: Okay.

Jesse Thorn: Braggy, but okay.

John Hodgman: The opening story of Vacationland II!

(Chuck laughs.)

No, I was just— I was looking—I was at the drug store—

Jesse Thorn: Vacationland II: The March to Death.

(Jesse and Chuck titter.)

John Hodgman: Yeah. It’s not—you know, look. I don’t know when people are listening to this, but we’re in the middle of the summer, right? We’re not even in August yet, are we Joel?

Joel Mann: Nope.

John Hodgman: Right. And Joel, you know what I saw above— So, I don’t know if you know this Chuck, but maybe it’s true in Atlanta as well. You go to the drugstore, and they sell wine and liquor there. And I only mention that because above the liquor shelves in the drugstore at the top of the hill in Blue Hill, do you know what I saw lurking up there?

Joel Mann: What?

John Hodgman: This is in July. Skeletons and pumpkins.

(Joel affirms without surprise.)

They’re getting ready for Halloween already!

Chuck Bryant: Crazy.

John Hodgman: They’re trying to hide them up there, but I saw them! Summer won’t be here for long! Some of our listeners are probably back in school already—or their kids are. It may be hot where you are, but it’s time to start thinking about the chill, autumnal air. Cozy goths, this is your time. Give us your cozy fall cases if you like to light candles for ambiance, but you’re married to someone who refuses to allow a lit candle in the home or simply hates ambiance. Do you want to start putting out your gourd décor, but your roommate says it’s too early? Is your favorite fall tradition apple picking, and no one will go with you, because you just end up with too many apples? You always do.

Send us your cases at MaximumFun.org/jjho. Send us your fall disputes there. That’s MaximumFun.org/jjho. Or email me. Hodgman@MaximumFun.org.

Jesse Thorn: And of course, we wanna hear about all of your disputes on any subject. No case is too big or too small. So, submit them. MaximumFun.org/jjho. We will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

John Hodgman: Hooray!

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Transition: Cheerful ukulele chord.

Speaker 1: Maximum Fun.

Speaker 2: A worker-owned network.

Speaker 3: Of artist owned shows.

Speaker 4: Supported—

Speaker 5: —directly—

Speaker 6: —by you!

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