TRANSCRIPT Judge John Hodgman Ep. 733: Klutz Action Lawsuit Live in Burlington

[00:00:00]

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: It’s the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I’m Bailiff Jesse Thorn, and with me is Judge John Hodgman. This week’s episode was recorded live in Burlington, Vermont.

John Hodgman: We talked about what happens when loving couples share their shirts. We talked about mustaches—cannot be shared—and what to do when you minorly injure yourself at home and your partner is squeamish. We had a blast up there in Burlington, Vermont.

Jesse Thorn: Let’s go to the stage of the Higher Ground ballroom.

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: People of Burlington, Vermont, you asked us for live justice, and we are here to deliver it. The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

(Cheers and applause.)

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

(Cheers and applause.)

John Hodgman: Thank you, Bailiff Jesse Thorn.

Jesse Thorn: Judge Hodgman, we received a lot of submissions for our show here in Burlington. Too many to hear live on the stage. So, let’s start things off by clearing the docket. First up is a letter from Cyprus. (Interrupting himself with a laugh.) Holy cow. “Please order my friend, Ribbit, to stop consuming paint.”

(Laughter.)

“Whether it’s solid watercolors, leftover paint water, or just straight up paint, Ribbit has been eating and drinking paint with enthusiasm for years. As someone who has paid the price for consuming too much paint myself—”

(Jesse and the audience laugh.)

“—I worry about Ribbit’s health. Who is right?”

John Hodgman: Okay.

Jesse Thorn: We don’t make these up. I can’t emphasize that enough. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: Now, Cyprus—this took a real turn there when Cyprus revealed that they also have enjoyed… drinking paint.

(Laughter.)

Or consuming paint, I should say.

Jesse Thorn: They’re off the stuff now.

John Hodgman: Well, I hope that Cyprus and Ribbit are okay. I am going to say, I don’t know—I could only speculate as to what pleasure someone would take of consuming watercolors. Probably, there are paints that are non-toxic. The kinds that you give to children, for example. Because they’re definitely gonna consume paint, mostly through the nose. And yet, I would say, before consuming any further paint, please do consult your physician.

(Laughter.)

It’s the principle of—I’m gonna say it’s the ruling, the official ruling of the Judge John Hodgman court: please talk to a doctor or a nurse practitioner or a medical professional before eating any more paint. Do we have any more?

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. Here’s one from Melissa. “We are from Montreal, and my husband bought me tickets for your Burlington show for my birthday.”

John Hodgman: Oh! Happy birthday, Melissa.

Jesse Thorn: “He’s a wonderful whole human being in his own right, but he refuses to let me borrow any of his flannel shirts.”

(A gasp ripples through the audience.)

“I think it’s wasteful for me—”

John Hodgman: Listen to the crowd.

(Laughter.) This is a real northern Vermont, Southern Quebec crowd. It’s like, “Whoa.”

Jesse Thorn: Really struck at their core principles.

John Hodgman: I know. The flannels.

Jesse Thorn: “I think it’s wasteful to buy my own shirt when he has ten of them. I want that flannel! But he’s an only child who will not share.”

(An “ohhh” from the crowd.)

John Hodgman: Ohhh, libel.

Jesse Thorn: “Merci beaucoup!”

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Melissa did sign her letter merci beaucoup. Melissa, are you here? Happy birthday. And your husband, who’s a whole wonderful human being in his own right, you failed to name him.

Melissa: (Distantly.) Gabriel.

John Hodgman: Gabriel? Are you francophones or anglophones or biphones?

(Inaudible response.)

Why don’t you want to share your flannel?

Gabriel: She’s messy.

John Hodgman: She’s messy.

(Laughter.)

Do you think that Melissa’s estimate of ten flannels is accurate? Is that high or low?

Gabriel: A bit high.

John Hodgman: A bit high? Un petit peu high? Combien? COMBIEN!?

(Laughter.)

(Inaudible reply.)

Oui! Set, sies? Eight. Eight

Jesse Thorn: Jacques Cousteau, monsieur!

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Let me ask the question. With a show of applause—or how about this? A shouted tres bien. Do people of northern Vermont and southern Quebec share or not share their flannels with their partners?

[00:05:00]

If you believe yes, now yell tres bien.

(An enthusiastic chorus of “tres bien” from the audience.)

If you believe non, yell non!

(A much quieter collection of “non”s.)

Actually, how about me non?

(The crowd adjusts.)

I think the tres biens have it.

Jesse Thorn: The tres biens, by a comfortable margin.

(Cheers and applause.)

John Hodgman: Yeah. I’m sorry, Gabriel. You’re sharing your life with someone. I mean, uhhh, your spouse is going to steal your shirts, especially if they can fit into them. Right? I mean, that’s part of the pleasure of having a partner in life is to be able to share shirts, shirt-sharers! You know? And I’m sorry that Melissa is so messy. Maybe take it easy on the poutine when you’re wearing Gabriel’s flannels.

(Laughter.)

Wear that flannel! (Bangs his gavel.)

Jesse Thorn: Now, Judge Hodgman our first live case of the evening. Please welcome to the stage Kate and Joel.

John Hodgman: Kate and Joel, please approach.

(Cheers and applause.)

Jesse Thorn: Kate says her partner, Joel, has a mustache, but Joel disagrees. He says while he does have a beard, he would never sport a mustache. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Only one can decide. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

John Hodgman: Kate and Joel, welcome to my fake court. Nice to see you both. Kate, you think that your partner, Joel, has a mustache. Joel, you say you do not have one.

(Scattered laughter.)

I am…

(Kate laughs.)

I am looking at you right now—for those who might be listening—and I’m about done with the gaslighting. I know what I see, which is a full face of facial hair, including under-nostril hair. If that is not a mustache, Joel, what is it?

Joel: I prefer to view it as a beard. The full function is a beard.

John Hodgman: It’s part of the beard. Is that what you’re trying to say?

Joel: No, it is actually just a beard. There’s no separate mustache.

Jesse Thorn: Beards have no constituent parts, is that what you’re arguing?

(Laughter.)

Joel: Right. Like, you wouldn’t say that Kate has a mullet.

Jesse Thorn: There’s no unit. You’re saying—?

John Hodgman: No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t.

Jesse Thorn: There’s no unit between beard and hair.

John Hodgman: I agree with you, Joel, that I would not say that Kate has a mullet. Because for those of you who are listening, I’m looking at Kate right now, and she does not have a mullet. It’s a specific kind of hairstyle, which is not Kate’s!

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. Her hairstyle is medium on the top, business in the back.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: I think it’s like business in the back, Zoom meetings on the top—from home, you know. Kate, how did this first come up?

Kate: Well, he had something in his mustache, like—

John Hodgman: What did he have in his mustache?

Kate: Food.

John Hodgman: Right. What kind of food? Un petite—

Jesse Thorn: Flannel shirt food.

Joel: Lasagna.

John Hodgman: Lasagna?

Kate: Maybe. I don’t recall, your honor.

John Hodgman: Okay. Well, then I rule in Joel’s favor. I’m sorry.

(Laughter.)

Specificity is the soul of narrative. And if food is in the mustache, I need to know what kind. Was it a chowder, Joel?

Joel: I’m sorry?

John Hodgman: (Louder.) Was it a chowder in your mustache?!

Joel: Probably, yes.

John Hodgman: What’s your favorite food?

Joel: Lasagna.

John Hodgman: Lasagna! Alright. Let’s say it was lasagna.

Kate: It was lasagna.

John Hodgman: So, Joel had a big, old square of lasagna underneath his nostrils, and you told him, “Clear it outta your mustache, buddy.”

Kate: Yep.

John Hodgman: And what happened?

Kate: He said, “I don’t have a mustache.”

John Hodgman: And how did you feel when he told you something was obviously untrue?

(Laughter.)

Kate: It’s a familiar feeling at this point, but.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Wow.

Joel: Thanks! (Laughs.)

Kate: I mean, not from him personally. (Laughs.) But I didn’t feel great. I know that I probably bickered with him a little bit about it.

John Hodgman: What would you have preferred that Kate say?

Joel: Beard.

John Hodgman: You have lasagna in your beard. Why do you hate mustaches so much? I mean, look at me and Jesse. We both have mustaches. Oh, I know! You judge me, because my beard doesn’t connect with my mustache. Isn’t that it? Look at my feeble facial hair.

(Laughter.)

I can barely get the two sides of my mustache to connect to each other in the philtrum between my nose. You judge me, don’t you, Joel?

Joel: A little bit, maybe.

John Hodgman: Oh. Wow. What is it? Why, do you not—why do you take this stand, that you don’t have a mustache? And don’t say, “Because I have a beard,” Joel.

Joel: Are you trying to tell me that maybe I have a little bias against mustaches? Possibly?

John Hodgman: Well, I’m just wondering, because—

Joel: Yeah. I guess I do have a little bias against mustaches. Yeah.

John Hodgman: Tell me about it. Tell me about it. Tell me about it.

(Laughter.)

Jesse Thorn: Well.

[00:10:00]

Well, his stepdad was Magnum PI.

(Laughter.)

Joel: You know, honestly, back in the ‘80s, I did think mustaches were pretty great.

John Hodgman: Yeah, of course they were! Jesse Thorn, did you or did you not cohost a recap podcast of all of the films of Burt Reynolds?

Jesse Thorn: It wasn’t quite all of the films of Burt Reynolds, but let’s say the major works.

John Hodgman: The major works of Burt Reynolds. And Jesse, what was the name of that podcast?

Jesse Thorn: That was called STREAM. Stash Rules Everything Around Me.

(Scattered applause.)

Kate: Cool.

John Hodgman: One of the best podcast titles of all time. Kate, have you talked to anyone else about this dispute? Has this come up among your friend group at all?

Kate: It has.

John Hodgman: Tell me.

Kate: Well, I asked my friend Seth, who I would identify as also having a beard and mustache. But he agreed with Joel. He thought the whole thing was a beard.

John Hodgman: So, Seth agreed with Joel? Joel, are you familiar with the works of the Massachusettsian philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson?

Joel: No, not at all.

John Hodgman: Oh, so then you may not be aware of his occasional house guest and deadbeat friend, Henry David Thoreau? Who lived in a cabin on the shores of Walden Pond, living the natural life of solitude with nature? Unless he got hungry and then walked over to Ralph Waldo Emerson’s house and took a pie home with him! Are you familiar, Joel, with the neck beard of Henry David Thoreau and others? Are you familiar with the beard that is just the neck without anything under the nose, much like Henry David Thoreau had?

(Joel confirms.)

Right. So, what would you have in the place, the absent place, that Henry David Thoreau had bare skin? What would that be?

Joel: Shaved?

John Hodgman: No, I mean—but you have something that Henry David Thoreau doesn’t have. A companion for one, at least for now.

(Laughter.)

Joel: Ah, okay.

John Hodgman: Let me ask you. You thought the beard— Let me ask you. You thought that mustaches were fairly cool in the ‘80s, but now you clearly don’t feel that they’re cool. Tell me why.

Joel: Personally for me, I would never wear one.

(Laughter.)

I honestly don’t have any problem with anybody else wearing them.

John Hodgman: (Specifying.) Without a beard. Yeah, but what is it—? Why do you not even like the term?

Joel: The term? I’m not saying I dislike the term.

John Hodgman: Joel! You have a mustache!

(Laughter.)

It’s part of your beard!

Joel: I understand that you feel that way, yes.

(John “oh!”s, and the crowd laughs.)

Jesse Thorn: I feel like— Correct me if I’m wrong, John. I feel like all discourse in the United States about negative social interactions over the past decade has come to be referred to as gaslighting.

(Laughter.)

And here we have an actual example.

(Laughter. John agrees.)

“I don’t have a mustache,” he said, using the mouth under his mustache.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Kate, do you have any other complaints about Joel before I—?

(Laughter.)

Anything to do with mushrooms or butter by any chance?

Kate: Oh yeah, actually, I do.

John Hodgman: Yeah. Did you perhaps submit four or five cases?

Kate: Yes. Yes, your honor. I did.

(Laughter.)

I am a lawyer.

John Hodgman: Did they all revolve around Joel, by any chance?

Kate: Yes, they did. Yes. We’ve also been in the New York Times Magazine.

John Hodgman: Oh, I settled a dispute of yours, between you and Joel?

(Kate confirms.)

Which one was that? I don’t recall. Excuse me.

Kate: Oh, it was tiger birthday.

John Hodgman: Tiger birthday?

Kate: Yeah.

John Hodgman: Alright! That does not explain anything to me!

(Laughter.)

And apparently it was my brain.

Kate: It’s a legend in our house now, so. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: Alright, we’ll look that up online.

Kate: Okay. So, two of the other ones involving food were mushrooms: he has to always use the mushroom stems.  And I don’t like the mushroom stems. They’re woodier than the rest of the mushroom. So, I feel that I’m in my rights to just not use them when I make mushrooms. I’m not trying to make him do that.

John Hodgman: Alright. I put that in. I understand. I understand.

Kate: The other one is that he will put—he really wants to have the butter dish set up so that the paper from the butter is still on the butter within the butter dish.

(Dissent from the crowd.)

Jesse Thorn: Apparently, this is the other thing besides flannel. It makes sense. It’s flannel and dairy.

John Hodgman: Flannel and dairy. Exactly so. I think the audience appreciates the problem with that, Joel, which is that when the butter gets soft, you can’t pull off the paper very well. Is that the issue? That’s the issue with me.

Kate: That’s an issue. His argument, if I remember correctly, is that it keeps the butter dish cleaner. (Chuckles.)

[00:15:00]

And you know, but also, at what cost?

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Alright, I’m gonna make a triptych of rulings right now, Swift Justice style. First of all, use the stems unless they’re woody. There’s nothing wrong with those stems. There’s a lot of mushroom there. Don’t waste food. Second of all, take the paper off the butter before you put it in the dish. Third of all, Joel, you got a split decision so far. Pro-stem, anti-butter paper. Where am I gonna land on this beard/mustache issue? Somewhere under your nose.

(Laughter.)

I will allow you your delusion.

Joel: THANK YOU! YES!

John Hodgman: If! If! IF sir, if you—right now—come up with a better name for the fur under your nose.

(Laughter.)

Joel: We covered that already. It was beard?

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: No! No, sir. No. Because when you’re walking around with lasagna in your beard, that’s a whole region of your under-face. If you have lasagna in a specific place, Kate needs a region to describe. So, there’s cheek beard, there’s chin beard, there’s soul patch beard. There’s alternate cheek beard. What is the spot above your lips?

Joel: Point to it. What’s the—?

John Hodgman: No, I want a word! You give me a new word, or it’s mustache all the way home.

Joel: I’m just gonna let you have it. It’s mustache.

(Cheers.)

John Hodgman: Mustache it is! (Bangs his gavel.) Thank you, Kate And Joel.

Jesse Thorn: Kate, Joel, thank you.

John Hodgman: I was gonna allow top beard, nostril fur. Any of those will work.

Joel: Thank you.

John Hodgman: Thank you for being here, Joel.

Kate: Thank you! (Laughs.)

(Cheers and applause.)

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

John Hodgman: Hello, I’m your judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members. Of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org—and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network—boy, oh boy—that would be fantastic.

Just go to MaximumFun.org/join.

(ADVERTISEMENT)

 

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Burlington, Vermont, are you ready for mega justice?!

(Cheers and applause.)

Let’s bring out our litigants. Please welcome to the stage Lisa and Adrian!

(Applause.)

Tonight’s case, “Klutz Action Lawsuit”. Lisa says her husband, Adrian, bonks his head too much.

(Laughter.)

[00:20:00]

Lisa wants him to be more careful and stop bonking—or at least, stop sending her photos of his bloodied head! Adrian wants Lisa to accept his clumsiness and also to dress his wounds.

(Laughter and scattered “aw”s.)

Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

(Cheers and applause.)

John Hodgman: “They want you to feel powerless and to surrender and to let them trample everything. And you are not going to let them. You are not giving up, and neither am I. The fact that we cannot save everything does not mean that we cannot save anything. And everything we can save is worth saving. You may need to grieve or scream or take time off, but you have a role no matter what. And right now, good friends and good principles are worth gathering in. Remember what you love. Remember what loves you. Remember in this tide of hate what love is. The pain you feel is because…” you keep bonking your head all the time.

(Laughter.)

Bailiff Jesse Thorn, please swear the litigants in.

Jesse Thorn: Lisa and Adrian, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God-or-Whatever?

(They swear.)

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman’s ruling, despite the fact that I’m the one who’s 6’4”, which is the mathematically perfect height for hitting your head on (censor beep).

(They swear.)

Because if you’re taller, you see it coming.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Shouldn’t you be able to avoid it?

Jesse Thorn: No! Because it’s right here! It hits you right here!

(John affirms.)

You think you’re safe. You think, “I’m just a medium-tall person,” you think.

John Hodgman: You think you’re the height of your own eyes. But then it turns out, you got a hell of a dome.

Jesse Thorn: It turns out you just got clipped.

John Hodgman: On your top-head.

Jesse Thorn: Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

John Hodgman: Lisa and Adrian, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name a piece of culture that I referenced and quoted directly until the last sentence? Lisa, do you wanna guess first?

Lisa: Well, it was a very beautiful and meaningful quote, and I did have a pre-prepared guess which—

John Hodgman: Let’s hear it!

Lisa: It’s kind of fitting, but it’s— I said— Star Wars was my—(laughs).

(John affirms.)

It could work! It could work.

John Hodgman: Alright, alright, let’s do this Family Feud style. Do I see Star Wars!? (Imitates buzzer sound.) It could be Star Wars. Let’s just—you know, we’ll keep it up on the board. Adrian, are you thinking clearly today?

Adrian: I do believe I have an answer. Yes, I think it sounds very much like the second episode of Harold and the Purple Crayon.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: The sssecond… That’s a book, first of all.

Adrian: So, there’s a children’s TV show.

John Hodgman: Oh, there’s a children’s TV show. Okay. Alright. Well, let’s put it up in the bar and find out. Do I see Harold and the Purple Crayon, second episode?! (Buzzer sound.)

All guesses are wrong! I’m so sorry. That was actually a quote from the writer Rebecca Solnit from a post that she posted this morning and that my adult daughter forwarded to me, and it made me feel better. So, I wanted to share it with all of you.

(Applause.)

Not just my—our. Our adult daughter. Anyway. So, let’s move on. It’s not about bonking your head, obviously, but this is. Now, are you from Burlington?

Lisa: I live in—we live in Massachusetts. I did go to college in Middlebury, and I hung out—

(A single cheer.)

In the ‘80s, I was here a lot. So, a long time ago.

John Hodgman: Don’t worry. They don’t hate you.

(Laughter.)

This isn’t Maine; this is Vermont. I’m sure there’s some rivalry, but—

Lisa: I love Burlington.

John Hodgman: Thank you for being here. So, Adrian, Lisa says that you bonk your head too much on things. How often are you bonking? What are we talking about? More than once a week?

Adrian: Not more than once a week, no. Maybe once a month.

John Hodgman: And what part of Vermont is your accent from?

(Laughter.)

Adrian: I grew up in a little town a little ways from here. But I’ve been over here for 30 years, so I’m practically a native. I promise you.

John Hodgman: All they care about is “does he have a passport, and are you going back?”

Adrian: Let’s see how tonight turns out, your honor.

John Hodgman: Where— Oh, tonight’s the deciding factor?!

(Laughter.)

Where are you from originally?

Adrian: I’m from a town called Darby. Or Derby, as it would be said, in England.

John Hodgman: Derby in England? Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. And you’re like, “Well, things didn’t go so well that one night. I’ll just see—let’s see how the Judge John Hodgman show goes before I make a final decision.”

Adrian: Yeah, you could say that. A lot riding on it.

John Hodgman: Alright. So, you bonk your head from time to time.

[00:25:00]

Describe some of the bonking situations.

Adrian: Oh, I usually walk into things. I’m sure my wife will have a few more descriptions as we go through. Typically, I’ll walk into things.

John Hodgman: Well, because she does all the mental load and keeps track of everything for you? Or you don’t remember the bonks, because you’re bonking so hard?

Adrian: You’ll learn. Yes. Clearly, you’ll learn that as we go through this evening.

(John affirms.)

Jesse Thorn: He takes off his shirt. It’s covered in tattoos, designed to remind him of things.

(Laughter.)

Adrian: That’s right. Yeah. Mostly walking into things, but the odd fall.

John Hodgman: What kind of—like, are you walking into like—?

Adrian: Trees, beams, doors.

John Hodgman: Classic bonking material.

Adrian: We have a—our basement stairs at home have a very low corner piece. We’ve been in the house 15 years, and I think still—once every couple of months, I bang my head on it.

John Hodgman: In another 15, you’ll probably—yeah.

Lisa: I put padding on it, on that. So.

(Laughter.)

Jesse Thorn: John, every time he goes into the basement, it’s a real bonk adventure.

(Laughter.)

Adrian: Yeah, there you go. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: And it’s drawing blood from time to time?!

Adrian: From time to time, yes. Copious amounts, from time to time.

John Hodgman: Copious amounts?! Oh no. Have you always been—I don’t know another word for it, but like clumsy? Or just head-clumsy?

Adrian: Tall. Always been tall.

John Hodgman: Tall. What is your height, if I may ask?

Adrian: 6’1”.

John Hodgman: 6’1”. And yeah, that’s pretty tall. Definitely taller than me. And do you have—have you always hit your head on stuff? Is this—?

Adrian: No, feel like it’s a fairly— I think it’s started maybe around 15 years ago? My wife and I have been together about 15 years.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Those are just two separate facts.

Adrian: Two separate facts. Yeah. Yeah.

John Hodgman: Really— I mean, anyone draw any conclusions there? Might be—okay.

Jesse Thorn: I mean, the reality is that before 15 years ago, there’s no one who can testify to whether—

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Lisa, Adrian just accused you and your marriage of being Cause of Bonking.

Lisa: And now you hit the crux of the problem.

John Hodgman: Oh! I’m glad to get it so— You have a folio of papers.

Lisa: I won’t use it right now. Um, I really suspect there is subliminal intent behind his head hitting. Because it seems to occur when I’ve asked him to do something.

(Laughter.)

Like, “Oh, put your shoes back,” or “Can you help me with this?” or “Fix that,” and then—

John Hodgman: All of a sudden, there’s bonk?

Lisa: Suddenly there’s blood and head hitting, and I can’t do it anymore. And I have to hire a professional sometimes.

John Hodgman: To put his shoes back!?

(Laughter.)

Lisa: No, no, no! It depends on the job! Depends on the job. And it’s not always the head. I mean, it can be like gashes or, you know. If he’s cooking, he’ll cut his finger almost off. Or I don’t know. It’s just—and it’s just— And the other issue is that I am, by nature, very squeamish. I don’t like blood. I skipped biology when I was young. It’s that bad. But then he seems to have fun kinda like—whatever’s bleeding. Like, he sent me a photo. But it’s okay—

John Hodgman: Let the record show—no, you may hand that over to me. Yeah. You can share it with me after.

Lisa: Oh, you can have the photo. The froe in the photo is not related to that head injury. That’s a separate thing.

John Hodgman: What is a separate thing?

Lisa: That froe. In Vermont, I guess you guys must know what a froe is? Yes? For I didn’t know until we got a froe. (Beat.) In any case, I spend a lot of time watching—

Jesse Thorn: (Frantic.) WHAT’S A FROE!?

John Hodgman: Well, it’s—in Vermont, it’s certainly not an African American haircut.

Lisa: Oh, no. I apologize. It’s F-R-O-E.

John Hodgman: F-R-O-E. It’s a kind of a tool.

Adrian: It’s a tool that splits wood.

John Hodgman: A wood-splitting tool called a froe. And what did you do with the froe? How did you get that into your head?

Adrian: That was not my head; that was my hand.

(Lisa stammers in an attempt to explain.)

John Hodgman: Why am I looking into this picture of this froe!? What is this, the Hammacher Schlemmer catalogue?!

Lisa: This is my only—!

(Laughter.)

This is my only little evidence picture page. So, they’re all—

John Hodgman: I know, but you made it! Why is there a picture of a froe here?!

Lisa: Because! It’s a different incident! I mean, so the froe is involved. And when he got the froe—he gets really sharp things. He leaves X-Acto blades all over the place. But the froe he bought, and I’m like, “You really need to be careful with that froe. You’re going to cut yourself on that froe.”

And he is like, “Oh no, I’m not going to do that.” And then he went out to chop that— Actually, you weren’t! You were just picking it up!

(Laughter.)

You were just picking it up to use the froe! And then—

John Hodgman: Were you it by the bottom?

Jesse Thorn: (As a couplet.) Oh no, not the froe! You say, “Yes,” I say no!

Lisa: Yes! Yes, he did! He didn’t realize it would be so sharp. Anyway, then he ran to me.

John Hodgman: Did you pick it up by the blade?

Adrian: Apparently I did, yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, he did!

John Hodgman: What do you mean “apparently”?! Let me see your hands.

Adrian: Not my best move. It’s still scarred. You can see it down there.

John Hodgman: Wow. Yeah. That’s pretty deep. So, the froe has nothing to do with this gash in his forehead that is bleeding in this photo that you’ve shared. I’m not going—we don’t have projection here, so I’m not gonna share it with you. But.

Lisa: That was a head hitting incident.

(John repeats it back.)

On a beam, when he was fixing something in the garage.

[00:30:00]

Jesse Thorn: Wait, can I clarify something? Was the issue that whenever you print something out, a froe with a bloody hand appears on it?

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: That’s scary!

Jesse Thorn: Is this an elevated horror film, ma’am?

John Hodgman: It’s pretty A24 horror over there.

Lisa: I was just sort of grouping my evidence together on the same page to be efficient. So. Yeah.

John Hodgman: Alright, look. You did a wonderful job.

(Lisa thanks him.)

But the evidence of serious gravity here is this photo that you have taken of yourself in a mirror of a fairly nasty looking gash in your head.

Adrian: Yes.

John Hodgman: And then there’s a photo—a screenshot of your phone. Adrian has texted this photo to you with the caption—and I’ll hand this to Jesse—“Just another day for your adorable husband.”

(Laughter.)

Jesse Thorn: Wow! It’s a lot of blood!

Adrian: I maybe did not think that one through.

Jesse Thorn: And hold on. Because, John—

John Hodgman: Are you thinking through the other ones?

Adrian: I have a feeling I might be as the evening goes on.

Jesse Thorn: John, you left out part of the dialogue that is absolutely essential to capturing the spirit of this screen cap that we’ve been handed. There’s the picture of the horrible blood pouring down his head. Then it says, “Just another day for your adorable husband,” emoji.

Then she replies: “Why did you do that!?”

(Laughter and applause.)

John Hodgman: That’s a good question, and I’ll allow it. Why did you do that, Adrian? It’s a two-part question. Three, actually. What did you do to your head? Explain what happened, if you remember.

(Adrian tries to answer.)

The second part—excuse me, sir!

(Adrian apologizes.)

Then why did you do it? And then more, why did you send this photo to Lisa, since you know that she’s squeamish about blood?

Adrian: The first two I think I can answer.

John Hodgman: Very good.

Adrian: I was, as always— So, I do a lot of stuff around the house.

John Hodgman: Alright, that’s all I needed to hear! Thank you.

(Laughter.)

Adrian: Whether it’s fixing things, running around chopping things, whatever it might be. On that particular occasion—

Jesse Thorn: Picking up blades with your bare hands.

Adrian: (Laughs.) So, I’m in the process of turning our garage into a woodworking shop. And I was—

John Hodgman: This does not sound wise.

(Laughter.)

Adrian: I was up a ladder. And trying to hang some drywall on a beam that runs through the garage. And I maybe was a little too far up the ladder and maybe leaning across a little too far and kind of lost touch with the ladder. And on my way down, happened to hit my head on the beam that I was hanging the sheet rock on.

(Laughter.)

Quite simple, really.

John Hodgman: Did you need stitches? I can’t tell.

Adrian: No, I never need— I think only once I’ve needed stitches.

John Hodgman: You never need stitches?!

Lisa: He does need them. But avoids it at all costs.

Adrian: Tissue paper works very well.

Lisa: And will bleed a lot instead. And I’ll be wrapping things around him.

John Hodgman: You’re building a workshop, a woodworking shop.

(Adrian confirms.)

And you said guh-raj, but I say gare-aj.

Adrian: Thank you. Thank you, your honor. I am warming to you.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Lisa, how do you feel about woodworking? What kind of tools are you gonna have in your woodworking shop?

Adrian: Well, I have the tools. I just didn’t have the shop. Hand tools, mainly.

John Hodgman: Hand tools only, not electric band saws?

Adrian: I do have a bandsaw, and a table saw, and that—yeah.

John Hodgman: Yeah, okay. Let’s just—wow.

(Laughter.)

Lisa: I trust him more with the power tools than I do with the hand tools. For some reason, he seems a lot more lax with the hand tools.

John Hodgman: Is that true? Do you take more care with the power tools than the hand tools?

Adrian: I think so, yes. Yeah

John Hodgman: Mm, okay.

Jesse Thorn: John, this is a safety area. He’s building this—any time he spends in the wood shop is time he doesn’t spend in his private abattoir.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: So, you haven’t answered yet why you send these photos when you know—or do you know? You’re not learning just now—that it upsets your wife?

Adrian: Yeah, this one’s—this is where I feel like I’m on the back foot just a little.

(Lisa laughs.)

John Hodgman: Don’t fall over!

Adrian: Her reaction as the night goes on, you might hear one of her squeals, and it’s quite a squeal. And if—I guess it’s kind of cool.

(Laughter.)

Lisa: Can I interject?

John Hodgman: You may— Gimme a moment just to process what I just heard.

Alright. Now you may interject.

Lisa: I could just say: ask him about his childhood, if you would. (Giggles.)

John Hodgman: I’ll… allow it. Adrian, tell me about YOUR CHILDHOOD!

[00:35:00]

Adrian: It was a long time ago.

Lisa: He was the youngest. Much younger.

John Hodgman: Of how many?

Adrian: Just of three.

Lisa: He had two. Older brother and sister. His parents were exhausted, didn’t pay much attention. I mean, loved him very much. Exhausted, though.

(John snorts.)

And his older siblings teased him a lot. And I think to him, I’m both like the younger sibling he never had to tease. And also, in return— So, I’m also ridiculously like nurturing. And when he gets wounded, as much as I hate it—and I hate the blood— Well, part of it is I just wanna cover up the blood. But I will go to all ends of the earth to like, you know, run, get band-aids, disinfect it, and quickly, quickly— And he seems to just sit there in a very relaxed fashion, enjoying me running around, trying to find things to stop the bleeding. And so, it’s a mixed thing. So, he tortures me, and then I nurse him, and then I kiss his boo-boo. And I should— I’m doing all the wrong things. I realize that. I’m enabling him. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: No. Or it’s just sexy roleplay.

Lisa: (Laughing.) No, no, it’s not! No, because I’m also really annoyed. Then I also get angry, ’cause I don’t like blood, and it makes me angry. So, he gets a wide range of reactions.

(Adrian confirms.)

And they’re real. They’re real reactions.

John Hodgman: I’m gonna ask you— I’ll remind you: you’re under fake oath. So, answer yes or no only, please.

Do you send photos of your wounds because you know and enjoy the fact that it freaks Lisa out? Remember where you were talking about the little screams?

Adrian: (Beat.) Yes, your honor.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: I appreciate that. And do you enjoy her ministering to your wounds?

Adrian: Yes, your honor.

John Hodgman: Yeah! And Lisa, you say that you’re squeamish, but you’ve managed to keep him patched up and together without stitches. I mean, you’re good at it.

Lisa: Yeah, I have another example. It’s not blood. So, he was going down the stairs to put his shoes back.

Adrian: That I’d just been told to put away.

Lisa: And instead of hitting his head, he slipped and fell. And next thing I know, he is running upstairs with his pinky finger bent 90 degrees the wrong way. And he’s like, “Look at this!”

(Laughter.)

And I’m like (sounds of disgusted panic). So, it’s truly—for me, it’s an attempt to just stop, you know, the distortion and whatever. So, I’m very crafty, and I like working with metal. So, I run to my craft shop. And I’m like, forging him this splint, ’cause we had no splints.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: What the hell is going on in Massachusetts?!

Lisa: So, I’m like—I run it back. I put this splint— Anyway, by the time he got to the emergency room—’cause it was—it actually was bad. His doctor thought I was a medical professional. He was very impressed with my splint.

Jesse Thorn: Honestly, the more you describe—

John Hodgman: Well, it was made out of wrought iron!

Lisa: So, yeah. I mean, maybe for me it is a—I’m quietly satisfied by my ability to nurse said wounds and so forth. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: You described three categories of Adrian’s injuries.

(Lisa confirms.)

Would you like to list the categories, or shall I?

Lisa: You can, if you like.

John Hodgman: Okay. ‘Cause I have them right here.

Lisa: Yes. Go for it.

John Hodgman: Injuries that happen when I’ve asked him to do something.

Adrian: Which is most of them.

John Hodgman: Such as, “Put your shoes away,” for example.

Injuries that add an element of romance while I dress his wound.

And third category: injuries that happen after I’ve warned him.

(Laughter and raucous applause.)

Lisa: Thus, the froe. That’s where the froe comes in. Yeah.

John Hodgman: Oh, did you warn him not to grab his froe by the blade?

Lisa: I just said stay away from the froe. And he didn’t stay away.

John Hodgman: And he didn’t stay away from it.

(Lisa confirms.)

Adrian, are these categories fair?

Adrian: (Beat.) Yes. I believe so. I believe so.

John Hodgman: Lisa, you want me to rule that Adrian exercise more caution. Do you think that’s even… possible?

Lisa: I realize that’s asking a lot. So, I understand that is an unrealistic request. That particular one. But at least maybe don’t bleed in my direction. That would be great. (Laughs.)

John Hodgman: Like, so that if he hurts himself, he should not come to you for primary care or send photos.

(Lisa confirms.)

Because it makes you uncomfortable.

Lisa: Yeah, because— Well, and it’s a little—it’s disproportionate. Because when I get injured, I’m very self-sufficient. I take care of myself. But there was one time that I sprayed myself in the eye with poison ivy killer.

(Horror from the audience.)

I was holding, you know, those automatic ones. Anyway, got in my eye, and it hurt. And I said, “Please, go get the eye wash.” And then so, when I get hurt, he runs around like a chicken with its head cut off and is like, “Where do I go?! Where do I go?! What do I do?!”

[00:40:00]

And I’m like, (strained) “It’s in the closet on the first shelf!”

John Hodgman: Does he have the froe by the blade, and he’s gesturing around the house with it, knocking things over onto his own head? Bonk, bonk, bonk. Cans of cream corn coming down.

Lisa: Okay, maybe not that bad. But I mean, no, he— Honestly, in these occasions, will even like fall or hit his head looking for what I need him to like help me with. If I need, like—if I’m bleeding. ‘Cause I— Anyway. And so, by the time he runs down to say he couldn’t find the eye wash, which was exactly where I said it was, I had already stuck my head in a bucket that was in the basement. Of water. So, I just managed it myself. So, if it was equal—right?—if I got injured, and he did the same for me, I might not be here.

Jesse Thorn: Honestly, I am just listening to this and thinking about the fact that you have industrial safety equipment in your home.

(Laughter.)

In every closet, there’s like—“No, that’s one of those fire extinguishers for chemical fires only.”

John Hodgman: Well, he’s got a wood shop, and she’s got a full blacksmith operation. You gotta have an eye wash!

(Laughter.)

Adrian, do you think that this is something that you could, with a little extra care, stop from happening as often?

Adrian: I’m not sure I could, your honor. I think…

Jesse Thorn: It’s his passion.

Adrian: I don’t wake up everyday thinking, “I think I’m going to bonk my head today,” but I—

John Hodgman: Why not? There seems to be a precedent.

(Laughter.)

Adrian: I run around a lot. I do a lot of things. And sometimes things get in the way, whether that’s my head or my hand or something else.

John Hodgman: What do you—what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

Adrian: Um… just maybe a little more understanding on that front, that I’m bringing a lot to the relationship with the things that I do.

(Laughter.)

Jesse Thorn: This is starting—

Adrian: And in the process of bringing those things, doing the work, taking my shoes downstairs—

(Laughter.)

—making nice furniture for the living room, sure, I might have a little accident along the way. But I’m not sitting on the couch watching football every Sunday.

John Hodgman: Is it true that he’s a handy woodworker when he is not injuring himself? Do you have some beautiful, bloodstained furniture that he’s made for you? Or?

Lisa: I haven’t seen any furniture yet. Have you made furniture?

(Laughter.)

I hear talk of the furniture.

John Hodgman: What are you working on?

Adrian: Our entire entertainment—sorry. Our entertainment center.

Lisa: I apologize. He did make a nice entertainment center. Yes, he did. That was a while ago. I forgot.

(Laughter.)

Jesse Thorn: You mean like maybe 1997, when people had entertainment centers in their house?

(Laughter.)

Adrian: That’s true. Good point. Thank you.

John Hodgman: What kind of wood did you make the entertainment center out of?

Adrian: That’s out of cherry.

John Hodgman: Cherry wood. It demands a blood sacrifice, cherry.

Adrian: It does.

(Laughter.)

And it’s good to hand split it first, with a froe.

Jesse Thorn: Yeah. John, everything that Adrian just said sounded basically like this to me: (with a stereotypical New York gangster affect) “Eh, so I do a lot of things around the house. I’m gonna be running around. And if something should get run into?”

So, I’m thinking maybe, Lisa, you should buy some insurance.

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Yeah. By the way, Jesse, your English accent is getting really good.

Jesse Thorn: Thank you.

(Laughter.)

(In the gangster voice.) Eh!

Adiran: Yeah, it felt like home.

Jesse Thorn: (In the gangster voice.) If a wound might get opened? Uhhh…

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Alright. I think I’ve heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I am going to descend into my chambers. I’ll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Jesse Thorn: Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

(Cheers and applause.)

Lisa, how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now?

Lisa: I think pretty good, as far as the bleeding portion goes. I would think he’d have sympathy for me on that one based on what I’ve heard him rule in the past. Because if I don’t like things, then he shouldn’t, you know, make me try. (Laughs.)

Jesse Thorn: It seems like a big piece of this could end up being whether Judge Hodgman knows that you just mount TVs on the wall now.

(Laughter.)

Adrian, how are you feeling about your chances?

Adrian: I’m not feeling great. I think I was on the back foot from the start here.

Jesse Thorn: (Laughing.) Or the front foot.

Adrian: Or the front foot. Or both. Yeah.

Jesse Thorn: Head over heels. And then, yeah. Well, we’ll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this.

(Applause.)

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

 

Promo:

Jackie Kashian: Jackie Kashian. Hi, and welcome to the MaximumFun.org podcast, The Jackie and Laurie Show, where we talk about standup comedy and how much we love it and how much it enrages us.

Laurie Kilmartin: We have a lot of experience, and a lot of stories, and a lot of time on our hands. So, check us out. It’s one hour a week, and we drop it every Wednesday on MaximumFun.org.

[00:45:00]

 

Promo:

Music: Sophisticated electronic harpsichord.

Travis McElroy: Hello, Internet. I’m your husband host, Travis McElroy.

Teresa McElroy: And I’m your wife host, Teresa McElroy. And this is a promo for Shmanners. It’s extraordinary etiquette—

Travis: —for ordinary occasions. Every week, we’re going to tell you about a bit of culture, a bit of history, how etiquette still applies in the modern day. All that stuff!

Teresa: We also love to do biographies and histories of, and—you know, general procedurals: how to do etiquette in today’s society.

Travis: So, come check it out every Friday on MaximumFun.org or wherever you find your podcasts.

Teresa: Manners, shmanners, get it?

(Music ends.)

 

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Judge Hodgman, we’re taking a break from the stage at the Higher Ground Ballroom. What’s going on with you?

John Hodgman: Well, as you may know, Jesse, I’m recording right now from my summer chambers up here in the state of Maine—specifically, WERU FM, 89.9 on your FM dial—in Orland, Maine. And if you’re not in Orland, Maine, you can get it throughout the world at WERU.org.

You may know—and if you don’t, please do know!—that we are in the midst of WERU’s Pledge Drive. WERU is a wonderful community-supported and community programmed station. It’s one of the last true freeform stations that I’m aware of in the Northeast or in the United States. 1/3rd of its budget is being lost due to Congress defunding the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. It’s hard times for community radio stations all around the country. WERU is no exception. It also happens to be a really fun place. The programs, some really indispensable—not only music, but news and community information.

So, I hope you’ll check out the station WERU.org. It’s a lot of fun to listen to. If you know Joel, the Maine man, Mann. Say hi, Joel.

Joel Mann: Hello.

John Hodgman: Yep. You’ll know that he’s been a staple of our program for almost a decade now, and we could not do the show without his support and WERU support. I hope you’ll offer them your support if you can. Also, I would like to remind you that a friend of the court, Margaret Grace Myers, has written a wonderful history and fascinating and upsetting and truly interesting history of sex education in America. It’s called The Fight for Sex Ed: The Century Long Battle Between Truth and Doctrine. And it’s available very shortly wherever books are sold. August 12th, 2025, Beacon Press brings it to your bookstore and libraries. The Fight for Sex Ed by Margaret Grace Myers. Check it out.

Jesse Thorn, what’s going on in your world?

Jesse Thorn: There are two great interviews on Bullseye with Jesse Thorn this week. One with the great punk rock band PUP, and one with Akiva Schaffer—who is, of course, a member of the Lonely Island, but also more importantly and more timely-ly, he is the director of the new Naked Gun movie, which is hilarious.

John Hodgman: I hear that’s a very funny movie. Comedy’s back in theaters, everyone!

Jesse Thorn: Also the director of Pop Star: Never Stop Never Stoppin’, which if you haven’t seen, is one of the five or ten funniest movies of the last 20 years. Just a hilarious, hilarious movie. So, go listen to that interview with Akiva Schaffer.

I also have been pouring new items into the Put This On Shop at PutThisOnShop.com. So, I hope that you will all go and check out Put This On; you will get ready for your autumn with items from the put this on shop. We’ve got all kinds of clothes and gifts and vintage and antique items and all kinds of just amazing, awesome stuff.

So, go to PutThisOnShop.com. We actually still have a feeeew—a few of our New York State of Mind and California Soul baseball caps, which are handmade in Pennsylvania—one at a time by one human being—and are absolutely gorgeous. Leather bands, leather size adjusters, made of wool flannel, and you can find them right there at PutThisOnShop.com. There’s only a couple left of each one.

John Hodgman: I’ll just repeat, PutThisOnShop.com. Go check it out.

Jesse Thorn: Let’s get back to Burlington, Vermont!

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reentries the courtroom and presents his verdict.

(Cheers and applause.)

John Hodgman: Just standing up, I got a terrible head rush.

(Laughter.)

Lisa and Adrian, I have really enjoyed hearing about the strange, sexy, silent comedy life you have in your extremely dangerous house in Massachusetts.

(Laughter.)

And I do sympathize as someone who has bonked my head plenty of times without even being particularly tall.

[00:50:00]

And I don’t—you know, I don’t mind being taken care of when I am feeling ill or poorly by the person I love the most in life and share my life with: my wife, who’s a whole human being in her own right. She hates it and refuses to do it. I don’t mind putting it out there. I think she would agree. (Laughs.) If I get sick, she gets mad at me.

(Laughter.)

Jesse Thorn: I can see it. (Laughs.) She’s really cool.

John Hodgman: She really is. She really is. It is a pleasure to be doted upon when you are bleeding, as it is also—I trust—a pleasure to dote upon the person that you love and not hurt yourself while trying to flush their eyes out of poison ivy poison, or whatever it is, put in Lisa’s eye. When our children were growing up, they had accidents. And our rule in the house was, “Hey, accidents happen! (Beat.) Have less of them! Make it happen less! Pay more attention!”

(Laughter.)

And that didn’t change anything. But I still think that when one knows that one is a little bit clumsy or moves too fast or what have you, that they should exercise care. Because there could very well be a time when you injure yourself that it is not simply something that can be treated with—I think you said tissue paper?

(Adrian confirms.)

Okay. I don’t know what’s going on in the first aid kits in England, but we use tissue paper to line gift bags, not to stop bleeding.

(Laughter.)

There might come a time when you have an injury that Lisa can’t help you with. And obviously, it’s already happened. You had to go to the emergency room. Which is time consuming and expensive and traumatic, and you shouldn’t visit this stuff upon the person that you love. That said, I think for you, it’s going to happen—both out of a natural clumsiness and stubbornness. I’m a little concerned about the way you’re sitting on this stool right now. Quite honestly, a little too jaunty for me! I’m a little afraid this thing’s gonna—they’re gonna collapse beneath both of you simultaneously. And then a chicken with his head cut off is gonna run around the stage, and someone’s gonna start playing “Yakety Sax”, the Benny Hill theme.

(Laughs.)

That might be a little bit beyond your control. Though, I do—in a friendly manner—order you to try to take some extra care, especially since—like me—your time moves in one direction, and you’re getting older. And your coordination is going to diminish. As compromised as it already is, it’s gonna get worse.

(Adrian chuckles.)

One thing that I do think that I can order without reservation is don’t tease your wife with pictures of your wounds. I’m sorry. It’s mean to her! My wife, who’s a whole human being in her own right, also is squeamish around blood. And it really, really upsets her, so I would not send her a picture of, say, the wound I have when I ran into a wall and busted my head open. I didn’t show it to her. I didn’t demand help from her. (Chuckling.) I simply got my daughter’s friend to drive me to the hospital.

(Laughter.)

Because she had her driver’s license.

(Laughter.)

Scars, like the one that I have on my forehead, are very— I mean, when they last—you’re lucky that you don’t have a scar. But— (Beat.) Do you have one?

Lisa: Oh, yeah, there’s one there.

John Hodgman: Oh, okay. Well, you should be embarrassed about that.

(Laughter.)

It is, to me, a reminder of poor decision making that embarrasses me every time I look in the mirror. You know? But that said, since you know that Lisa doesn’t enjoy the pictures of the wounds, you have to find your—your kink elsewhere.

(Laughter.)

And not send her that stuff, and not tease her, and not provoke a response—especially if you want her to take care of you.

Adrian: Can I just get one clarification, Judge?

(John agrees.)

Only when there’s blood involved, or any kind of injury?

(Laughs.)

John Hodgman: All body horror!

(Laughter.)

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, Cronenberg! “What if I’m turning into a fly?!”

(Laughter.)

John Hodgman: Yeah. Don’t stick any video cassettes into your abdomen or anything either. Some deeper cuts out there. Okay, I like it. In any case, keep your blood to yourself, and do take care of yourself, and continue to take care of each other as you do so well. This is the sound of a gavel. (Bangs his gavel.) Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all.

Jesse Thorn: Thank you, Lisa and Adrian!

(Cheers and applause.)

[00:55:00]

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Jesse Thorn: That’s it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you to Reddit user u/sjhamilton43 for naming the case in this episode. You can follow us on Instagram at @JudgeJohnHodgman, where we post evidence and pictures of pets and dank memes and other good things—clips from the show.

John Hodgman: Polls and quizzes, even!

Jesse Thorn: Yeah, sometimes polls and quizzes. We’re on YouTube and TikTok at @JudgeJohnHodgmanPod, where you can watch video from the show. Great place to go and smash those like and subscribe buttons. If you’re looking for somewhere to go and smash like and subscribe buttons, can I recommend YouTube and TikTok?

John Hodgman: Yeah, @JudgeJohnHodgmanPod.

Jesse Thorn: The Judge John Hodgman podcast, created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorn. This episode was recorded by Matthew Barnhart. Hey, Matty. Dan Telfer is our social media manager. AJ McKeon, our podcast editor. Daniel Speer is our video editor. Our producer is Jennifer Marmor. And we will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Sound Effect: Three gavel bangs.

Transition: Cheerful ukulele chord.

Speaker 1: Maximum Fun.

Speaker 2: A worker-owned network.

Speaker 3: Of artist owned shows.

Speaker 4: Supported—

Speaker 5: —directly—

Speaker 6: —by you!

Download transcript (pdf, 237.94 KB) ↓