TRANSCRIPT Ep. 553: Hampering With the Evidence

Transcript

sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse thorn
									
Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorn. This week: "Hampering with the Evidence." Katherine brings the case against her husband Andy. When they go on short trips to visit her dad, Katherine would like to pack her clothes in a laundry basket. Andy is opposed! He says it's just not practical. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide.
sound effect
									
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape on the floor, footsteps.]
jesse
									
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.
sound effect
									
[Door shuts.]
john hodgman
									
"They kept us hidden. We were the big family secret. Everybody hated us, except our aunt. You see, he likes the dark. He doesn't like to be seen. Not even by me sometimes. And you know what else? He talks to me. Without words. I just hear him whispering in my brain. Sometimes he talks for hours and hours, and won't shut up. He calls it... the Judge John Hodgman podcast." Bailiff Jesse Thorn, please swear in the litigants. [Someone laughs quietly.]
jesse
									
Katherine and Andy, please rise and raise your right hands.
sound effect
									
[Chairs scrape.]
jesse
									
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?
katherine
									
Yes.
andy
									
I do.
jesse
									
Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that when he visits the laundromat, he carries his laundry in one of the legendary wire sculptures of mid-20th century Japanese American artist Ruth Asawa? [Beat.]
crosstalk
									
Katherine: Yes. Andy: I do.
jesse
									
I don't know what the premise of that was. I just... have been thinking a lot about the work of Ruth Asawa lately, John. Judge Hodgman—
john
									
They're great for MyUndies!
jesse
									
Yeah. [Laughs.]
john
									
Oh, wait a minute. They're not a—they're not a podcast sponsor, are they? [John, Andy, and Jesse laugh.] They're great for my non-brand underwears! [Jesse and Andy chuckle.]
jesse
									
Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.
john
									
Katherine and Andy, you may be seated.
sound effect
									
[Chairs scrape.]
john
									
For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Everything that I said was a direct quote from a piece of culture, except for the part where I said "He calls it the Judge John Hodgman podcast." That was obviously... my imitation of a joke. Uh, Katherine. Do you have a guess?
katherine
									
God. Uh, it sounded like—[sighs]—some kind of children's literature. Um...
john
									
Mm!
katherine
									
Around the World in Eighty Days.
john
									
Oka—oh, interesting! Around the World in Eighty Days! Huh. Okay! That—definitely big—
jesse
									
A classic of children's literature, and a classic of Cantinflas literature.
john
									
What's that??
jesse
									
Cantinflas was in the—[stifles laughter]—the Clown Prince of Mexico! He was in Around the World in Eighty Days.
john
									
Thank you very much, Bailiff Jesse Thorn!
jesse
									
Cantinflas.
john
									
Alright. You know why I like your guess, Katherine?
katherine
									
You do?
john
									
Yeah. I do like your guess. You wanna know why I like it?
katherine
									
Why?
john
									
Well, how do they travel around the world in 80 days?
katherine
									
Um, I think they take, like, trains, and...
john
									
Planes, and automobiles. But also a—don't they float around in a—in a balloon?
katherine
									
That's—I've never read it. I used to think that that was the only way they got around the world, and it's not.
john
									
There's definitely a—there's some—
katherine
									
There's some balloons.
john
									
There's some lighter-than-air travel in that, right?
katherine
									
I would think so.
john
									
And when you're in a balloon, in a hot-air balloon... what are you floating around in?
katherine
									
A basket.
john
									
A baskeeet. [Katherine chuckles.] Like a lau—like a laundry hamper basket!
crosstalk
									
Katherine: That's right! Andy: Ahhh.
john
									
Andy, I—I think you've got this one. I think you've got— [The litigants laugh quietly.] I think you've got a guess, and I think you're right.
andy
									
Was that a hint, what you just said? Or no?
john
									
Well, I'm just looking at you, and I just got a feeling. We're the same age, right? May I ask your age?
andy
									
I am 50.
john
									
Yeah. When's your birthday, June 3rd?
andy
									
October 25.
john
									
Oh, okay! I'm a little bit older than you, then.
andy
									
Okay.
john
									
Belated happy birthday.
andy
									
Thank you.
john
									
But you got a beard. You're— [Andy and John laugh.] You got a beard and glasses.
andy
									
Uh-huh.
john
									
You're 50 years old. This puts you in the—in the range.
andy
									
I basically am you.
john
									
...Okay! I'll decide.
andy
									
Yeah. Uh, is it, uh—I don't know. The only—couple things occurred to me. Uh... The Sixth Sense? Something like that? [Katherine laughs.]
john
									
The Sixth Sense. Okay, I understand why you made that guess!
andy
									
What's that nineties movie with Don—Dan Aykroyd? Nothing but Trouble? Do you know this movie?
john
									
[John chuckles knowingly.] You can hear me and the Flop House boys in The Flop House talk about that... wildly disturbing movie.
andy
									
It was—yes. It was quite a surprise when I got it from the video store.
jesse
									
Probably best known as Tupac's onscreen debut.
crosstalk
									
John: [Laughs quietly.] That's right. Andy: Yes. Mm-hm.
john
									
Along with the rest of the Digital Underground.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
jesse
									
Yeah.
john
									
Yeah. Nooo. Don't see that movie, everybody. And nor can I endorse the movie that is the actual answer, because indeed all guesses are wrong. I can't endorse this movie, 'cause I have ever seen it. Though around the lobby at the Coolidge Corner movie house where I worked as a teen—a late teen—this movie came up a lot. It is a cult horror film from 1982. You like cult horror movies, Andy?
andy
									
Eh.
john
									
Alright. Alright! See, I didn't read you correctly. You're more—
andy
									
Is it Basket Case?
john
									
It was Basket Case, yes.
andy
									
Wooow. See, that's why I was asking if it was a—a hint.
john
									
Well, you should've took it!
andy
									
Yeah!
john
									
'Cause you guessed those other ones wrong first.
andy
									
Very, very wrong, yeah.
john
									
What do you know about Basket Case, Andy? Explain to the audience.
andy
									
Uh, it is—yeah, it's—I—I've never seen it.
john
									
Me neither.
andy
									
Uh, I've seen, like, a review video on YouTube sort of summarizing it. There's a—is it—are they twins separated at birth?
john
									
Yeah. It's a story about a—a guy named Duane, who was a conjoined twin. And against his wishes, the conjoined twin was separated from him. And the conjoined twin's name is Belial. And the conjoined twin, the twin that is separated from Duane, is... a sort of monstrous creature. That Duane keeps in a basket. A laundry basket. Under his bed.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
And every now and then, someone says, "What's in the basket?" And the audience goes, "Don't ask!" But they do anyway, and it opens it up, and Belial's, like, claw gets them in the face. Super cheap movie, it was made for 35 grand. The claw is actually a rubber glove worn by the director Frank Henenlotter. Cult movie. Two sequels. That's all I know about it. It could be wildly—I mean, it was made in 1982; it could be wildly problematic in ways that I do not want to touch. It could be radioactive as far as I know. So don't see it, kids. [Someone laughs quietly.] But yeah, Basket Case was what I was going for there. But I—yeah! I read you wrong; you're more of a... Nothing but Trouble guy.
andy
									
[Laughing] Uh-huh. Yes.
john
									
More of a Sixth Sense fella.
andy
									
I mean, those are both pretty grotesque movies, from what I—what I understand.
john
									
You've never seen either of them?
andy
									
Oh, I've seen, uh, Nothing but Trouble.
john
									
But you haven't seen The Sixth Sense?
andy
									
Oh, I've seen—I saw that in the theater.
john
									
Oh, okay. I was gonna say, out of all three movies, the one you saw was Nothing but Trouble.
andy
									
[Laughs quietly.] Uh-huh. [Katherine chuckles.]
john
									
When did you rent it?
andy
									
Nothing but Trouble?
john
									
Yeah.
andy
									
It would've been, like, 1992 or something like that, '93.
john
									
Oh, it must have just come out! You mu—you—it must have been hot on the shelves of the video store of new releases!
andy
									
I was on the... burning edge of culture at that point.
john
									
I'm gonna tell you. No matter what you think—no matter how much bad movie you think you can tolerate, Nothing but Trouble is... too much bad movie.
andy
									
I enjoyed it! I recall watching it two or three times, uh, but...
john
									
Alright, I think I'm ready to make my decision. [The litigants laugh.] But I guess we oughta hear from Katherine first. Katherine, you seek justice in this case.
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
What is the justice you seek? What is the problem? What is the dispute?
katherine
									
So every time we go see my dad, it's a four-hour car drive.
john
									
Mm-hm.
katherine
									
We stay in a hotel. We only go for two nights. I don't want to spend a lot of time, like... trying to get out the door. So one time, I had the great idea, I think, to—instead of wasting my time folding all the laundry, and putting it in a suitcase, deciding what to bring—
john
									
Right.
katherine
									
Just—I had a pile of clean laundry sitting on the bed. Just put it in the basket. Unfolded. Put it in the car, and take it with us.
john
									
So you're saying you take the—the clean laundry, still fresh from the dryer—
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
[Sniff, sniff.] It smells good, it's warm to the touch. Toss it in the hamper, and go.
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
[Exhales sharply.] Wow, I love it.
katherine
									
And then, like, once we get to the hotel and we have nothing to do there, and we're just sitting around, then I fold the laundry there.
john
									
And you put it, like, into the drawers?
katherine
									
Yeah!
john
									
Of, like, the modular wardrobe–slash–flatscreen TV—
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
—cabinet that they have?
katherine
									
Yes. [John exhales sharply again.] And we live out of the drawers for two days, and then pack all of the nice clean clothes back in the laundry basket.
john
									
Well, wait a minute! Wait a minute. By then they're dirty, aren't they?
katherine
									
Not all of 'em, because I take a lot of laundry.
john
									
Ohhh, okay. You take more than you need.
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
'Cause you don't know!
jesse
									
She takes a whole basket, John!
john
									
It's like a lottery. You don't know what's in that dryer!
katherine
									
We're only going for two days, so it can't be— [John exhales sharply again.] We won't miss anything.
john
									
Andy, it's gonna be very hard for you to mount a defense. [Andy laughs quietly.] 'Cause you already told me that you like Nothing but Trouble, you've seen it more than once.
andy
									
Uh-huh.
john
									
A. And B, I love this. I love this. Normally when we're dealing with, uh... husband and wife, heterosexual couples—you are married, correct?
andy
									
Yes.
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
Yeah. It's the guy who comes up with a "I know a better way to do it!" kind of scheme.
andy
									
[Laughs.] Uh-huh.
john
									
But Katherine's come up with one... and I gotta say, I kinda love it! [Laughs quietly.]
andy
									
Yeah. I'm not above coming up with a "I got a better idea" scheme, but just in this case, this—this solution did not sit right with me.
john
									
Well, how come?
andy
									
Uh—
john
									
[Stifling laughter] 'Cause it made you feel like a fugitive from justice?
andy
									
[Chuckles.] No, it feels very impractical. Like, a suitcase is a very practical, useful invention. It zips up. You can carry it any which way you want. You can roll it, you can carry it with the handle. Things don't fall out of it everywhere. And the thought of just putting a whole bunch of random laundry into a laundry basket that's open at the top—I just picture it spilling everywhere, your clothes are on the ground outside of the hotel—
john
									
Wait, you're talking about the thought of it. Has it ever happened? Katherine, have you ever done it?
katherine
									
I have. He doesn't remember, but I have. [Jesse cracks up, John stifles laughter.]
john
									
Why doesn't he remember? He saw—he took one look at that laundry hamper as a suitcase, and fainted? [The litigants laugh.]
katherine
									
Yeah!
john
									
Blacked out, doesn't remember any of it?
katherine
									
He had a really strong reaction to—to this idea. Which is out of character for him.
john
									
Yeah, he seems like a pretty even-keeled sort of person.
katherine
									
And he doesn't care about, um, a formal way to do things, either.
john
									
What do you mean?
katherine
									
He's not one to stand on ceremony. He—he's not a very neat and tidy person.
andy
									
Hey! [Laughs.]
katherine
									
[Laughing] In ge—in general. Like, I just—
jesse
									
Just looking at him, I can tell he wears toe shoes to church.
katherine
									
[Laughs.] He's not uptight. He's... easygoing. I—it was just surprising. I was very surprised by his reaction!
john
									
So when—when you did it—how many times have you done it? Just this one time?
katherine
									
Well, definitely one time when we went to see my dad. And I might have done it once when we went to the beach.
john
									
Okay.
katherine
									
For, like, a vacation.
john
									
Right. And the first time you did it, you were going to see your dad.
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
Now, you live in North Carolina. Is that correct?
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
Whereabouts?
katherine
									
We live in Durham.
john
									
Pretty cool town.
katherine
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
Andy, you own a bar and grill there or something?
andy
									
Mm-hm! I believe you've eaten at it once.
john
									
Oh, really? What's it called?
andy
									
It's called Geer Street Garden.
john
									
Yeah, I've been there.
andy
									
Yeah.
john
									
I went there with the Cook brothers after a show.
andy
									
Yep, that's right!
john
									
Phil Cook and his brother... Other Cook.
andy
									
It's so weird that his mom named him Other. [Andy laughs quietly, John stifles laughter.]
john
									
I just know him—Belial, I think it was.
andy
									
[Chuckling] Yes.
john
									
Phil Cook brought his brother in a basket to the back yard of your place!
andy
									
Uh-huh. Yep!
john
									
After a show that we did. David Rees was there. We had a great time, we had a great meal, we had a great evening. Say the name of it again?
andy
									
Geer Street Garden.
john
									
Geer Street Garden! Katherine, did you also wanna talk about this place?
katherine
									
No, I was gonna say we are big fans of Dicktown.
john
									
Thank you very much! I appreciate that.
katherine
									
Yeah. And I'm hoping a second season will be out soon.
john
									
Well, you know, David Rees and I are working very hard on a secret project. And that's all I can say about that.
andy
									
We look forward to hearing it.
john
									
Hang on, I gotta look up this other Cook brother. I feel terrible about it. [Clicky-clacky typing.] Brad! Duh.
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] That was some very bold gaslighting, Andrew. [Katherine laughs.]
andy
									
Worth a try.
john
									
Brad! Brad, I'm sorry I forgot you. I always remember you in my heart. Brad Cook. I think maybe I blacked it out because that's my father-in-law's first name. But I love my father-in-law! I don't know what it was. Who knows why we remember or forget anything? Never mind a hamper of clothes.
andy
									
Yeah. [Katherine laughs quietly.]
john
									
So where does your dad live, Katherine? You're going from Durham to where?
katherine
									
Culpeper, Virginia.
john
									
Mkay. Four-hour drive. What kind of car do you drive?
katherine
									
A Honda CRV. Is it—is it okay to say that?
john
									
Yeah, of course it is.
katherine
									
Okay.
john
									
We can buzzmarket Honda if we're gonna buzzmarket Geer Street Garden. Describe your husband's reaction, Katherine, when you loaded up this hamper for the first time into the CRV, to take to Culpeper.
katherine
									
Well, it—his reaction was before I loaded it up. It was in the house, and he—he was just, like, "No! You—you can't do that! That's not right!"
john
									
And you did it anyway?
katherine
									
I did it anyway, yeah.
john
									
Was it chaos?
katherine
									
No, it worked out beautifully.
john
									
Were underwears flying all over the place?
katherine
									
No. Also, his clothes were not even in the basket. I'm pretty sure he packed a suitcase for himself.
andy
									
I did pack a suitcase.
john
									
Yeah! So you were packing, Katherine, for yourself, and—
katherine
									
And the two boys.
john
									
And two—and the two children that live with you?
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
Right.
katherine
									
And their clo—they have so many—you—if you ever folded a basket of kids' laundry, it takes forever.
john
									
I don't do it anymore, but I have done it. It does take forever, 'cause it's little tiny pieces.
andy
									
Yeah. By volume, it's—there's more pieces.
john
									
Yeah. And Andy, this happened, and—and did anything go wrong? Did any of your... Did any of your horrible predictions come true?
andy
									
No, I think my, uh—I don't really have much memory of it, so I don't think anything particular went wrong. But that didn't change my opposition to the—the action.
john
									
Katherine says that you're a slob. You don't care. [The litigants laugh.] You're low-key.
andy
									
I—I think it could be argued that I'm a slob in some ways.
jesse
									
A lot of people are saying that you wear toe shoes to church. [Katherine laughs.]
john
									
Yeah, I'm hearing a—I'm hearing from a lot of people, toe shoes at church.
andy
									
Yeah.
john
									
Uh—you seem like a low-key guy. What is it, do you think—I mean, now that we established that your fears did not come true—and probably wouldn't except on a very windy day, depending on the top layer of the hamper.
andy
									
[Laughs quietly.] Uh—no, there's other circumstances that could lead to it spilling. Clumsiness. You know, you open the back of the car, maybe something's shifted around. It's got a hatchback, so you open it, it could tip out. Uh, I have other objections, too.
john
									
Okay, keep going! I like all these possibilities.
andy
									
I think my main objection is that it—it is very impractical in that you are just wadding up a bunch of random laundry. Whatever happened to be in that load of laundry. You have no assurance in that load that you have the things that you'll actually want or need.
john
									
Yeah. I know.
andy
									
And inevitably you will have a whole bunch of stuff that you do not need.
john
									
[Stifling laughter] I know.
andy
									
And so to me, it just feels like the sensible thing to do—the practical thing to do— [Someone laughs.] —would be to go through it, find the stuff you need, put that into a suitcase, and leave everything else there.
john
									
I know, but you're going to Culpeper! Live a little! [Andy laughs.] Come on!
andy
									
Is this—if this is what's defined as "living a little," I don't wanna live, brother.
john
									
Well, how old are your boys?
andy
									
Uh, ten and eight.
john
									
Yeah. This is living a lot, frankly. [The litigants laugh.] This is the adventure of a lifetime!
andy
									
An open basket of laundry is the—is the—?
john
									
Yeah! It's just like, "Who know—who knows?" It's like, uh, getting a prize ball, or a—
andy
									
Right. Roll the dice, huh.
john
									
You know, like a—a mystery bag at a toy store! You don't know what's gonna be in there!
andy
									
Okay! I mean, if that's your view on it. I—I understand that. But that's—that's not how I viewed it.
john
									
Well, it's none of your clothes, anyway.
andy
									
It's true.
john
									
You already packed a suitcase.
andy
									
I also describe it as, um, smacking of spiritual laziness.
john
									
Oh ho ho, ho ho ho, ho ho ho—ho ho ho—
andy
									
In that there—there's a—
john
									
Hold on, hold on, I'm not done "ho-ho"ing!
andy
									
[Laughs.] Okay. [The "ho-ho"ing continues. Katherine laughs.]
jesse
									
You know what the classic example, John, of spiritual laziness is, right?
john
									
No?
jesse
									
It's wearing shoes to church that only have one compartment for your entire foot. [The litigants and John laugh.]
john
									
That's right. If you—if you wanna show respect to God or whatever, you better—you better show them that you have all ten digits that they gave you.
andy
									
God is a "them"?
john
									
Or whatever! [The litigants chuckle.] Well, listen! I'm sorry. I didn't realize—I forgot that you are a—[stifles laughter]—that you are an ordained minister of the church of spiritual discipline. Please tell me why a hamper is spiritual laziness.
andy
									
Because there's a—a clear and obvious thing that you should be doing, that will make your life easier. But instead of doing that, you're doing this other thing, which makes everything more complicated and creates work for you once you're on your trip. [Beat.]
john
									
Permission to approach the bench? Oh, yes, I give it to you. You are the judge. Thank you, Judge! [Katherine chuckles.] What could be easier than throwing all the laundry into the hamper?! That's really easy!
andy
									
Are you—[stifles laughter]—are you asking me?
john
									
No, I'm making a rhetorical—
andy
									
Oh.
john
									
I'm posing a rhetorical question.
andy
									
I have an answer for your rhetorical question.
john
									
God Or Whatever, I ask thee! Because God is a "thee" in this case.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
Andy. I ask thee, God—Or Whatever—what could be easier? Than to throw all the laundry into the hamper? "Why, I daresay nothing would be easier," respondeth my God Or Whatever to me. God Or Whatever, I ask thee! Am I adding work to my journey? By traveling with a—all my clothes in a hamper? God Or Whatever asks me: "Doeseth it all fall out?" I say—in this case, "No." Then God Or Whatever sayeth unto me—and including thee—now you're a thee, Andy—"No, because you are going to fold those clothes one way or the other, anyway. You are not adding work, my child with ten digits. And what's more, my child, I trust you. You may wear whatever shoe covering you have, and care to wear, because I trust you are not hiding that you have mutilated your toes in order to, uh, spite me." This is the Gospel that was given to us onto this day by God Or Whatever, through me, your Judge John Hodgman. Welcome to church! Anyway—
jesse
									
John, I think we just found a major new revenue stream. Touring church youth groups as the improvised Bible guys. [John cracks up, Katherine chuckles.]
john
									
I love it!
jesse
									
Watch out, VeggieTales! Jesse and John are coming.
john
									
That's right. I guess, Andy, what I'm trying to say is that... I can certainly appreciate why you would say putting the clothes into a hamper would be worldly laziness. Because—a mundane laziness, because you're not packing a bag. You're just—you're not making a selection. You're grabbing your clothes, dare I say willy-nilly.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
It's a big gamble that you get all the clothes that you want.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
And that is laziness of this mortal plane. But spiritual laziness—I don't think you've defined it for me properly. I don't think I understand it. Because that, to me, suggests that it is morally incorrect, as opposed to practically incorrect.
andy
									
Mm, I don't think I mean morally incorrect. I just mean it, uh—it—it speaks to a—a deep, like, bone-level refusal to do what you ought to in this situation.
katherine
									
Mm-hm. I would agree with that. [Andy cracks up.]
john
									
You would agree with it!
katherine
									
[Stifling laughter] Yeah!
john
									
Th—that rather undermines your case, Katherine.
katherine
									
Well, no—I'm not saying I'm wrong, though! Who likes to pack a bag? It's—it's... a rat race. Like—
andy
									
I think this is, like, a— [Someone laughs quietly.] —a spiritual defiance of, uh, all that is right in the same way that, like, Lucifer being kicked out of Heaven was a defiance.
katherine
									
You're calling your wife Katherine a lazy devil? [Katherine laughs.]
andy
									
I might be. [Laughs quietly.]
john
									
Who deserves to burn? And you say that it—there is no moral component?
andy
									
No, not burn! Maybe—maybe given her own realm of, uh, hellish existence to preside over, like Lucifer was.
jesse
									
Let's take a quick recess, and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor! We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
									
I have some practical questions, Judge Hodgman.
john
									
Yeah, please. I'm staying on the spiritual realm for this one.
jesse
									
Katherine, is this something that you only want to do when you are traveling to visit your father?
katherine
									
Yes. Uh, well... And maybe somewhere like a vacation to the—like I said, the beach, where you're gonna be there for a while, you're gonna have to do laundry when you're there. I might consider it in that case. But no, not if you're on an airplane, obviously. Or like—
andy
									
A-hah.
katherine
									
Um, it—no! I wouldn't—I wouldn't do it if we were visiting your family, Andy.
andy
									
[Laughs.] A-hah! That was my question. Next question.
john
									
Oh! [Andy laughs.]
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] Andy says—Andy keeps saying, "A-hah!" like he's proved something. [The litigants laugh.] He's like, "A-hah! Another mode of transportation listed!" [More laughter.] "A-hah! You've forgotten scooters!" [Andy laughs.] Uh, Katherine, when you visit your dad, do you engage in any activities that require particular kinds of clothing? Such as going swimming, going out to dinner, going to church. Uh— [John snorts.] Attending events, and so forth.
katherine
									
No. I mean, there's a hotel pool. We always bring the kids' swimsuits. So I throw those in the basket. But no, my dad—we go out to the same Chinese restaurant every time we see him. We hang out at his apartment. There's nothing going on. And no offense, Culpeper, but—it's a very cute town!—um, but we aren't going out to fancy dinners. We don't go to church. We hardly see anybody but my dad.
jesse
									
You said you're bringing children on these trips?
katherine
									
Yes.
jesse
									
What are you teaching them? [Katherine laughs.]
andy
									
Thank you.
katherine
									
Maybe Andy could teach them to pack a suitcase.
andy
									
[Chuckles quietly.] I—I have supervised them packing!
john
									
When you say you supervise them packing, what do they—they each open their suitcase, and you walk back and forth behind them, with a long ruler? [The litigants laugh.] Watching them as they fold their clothes, making sure that the—that each shirt is folded to the appropriate inch length, or what?
andy
									
It's—it's not that involved. I don't even care if stuff is folded. In fact, my clothes are not always folded, but they go in a bag that you can zip up.
john
									
There's the closure to it.
andy
									
Yes.
john
									
You seek closure.
andy
									
Yes! And—and—yeah.
john
									
Right. Which is more disturbing to you? The fact that something might fall out of the basket? Or the fact that some of the—the things in the basket may be a mystery? [Someone laughs.]
andy
									
Which is more...
john
									
Yeah.
andy
									
I think the mystery-ness. The—the, uh—
john
									
Mystery-ness.
andy
									
The—no assurance that you have what you're gonna need.
john
									
Yeah, I gotta say, Katherine, when you said that you selected swimsuits to make sure that you brought them, and you threw them in the hamper as well, you started to lose me there. Because now I realize it's not just—it's not just random. [Katherine laughs.] I was so loving the total wild card basket. [Andy laughs.] You lost me a little bit there, I have to say.
katherine
									
It's also about saving time. And getting on the road before noon. I don't wanna spend another hour at home folding laundry, and packing laundry, before we get on the road.
john
									
Yeah!
katherine
									
So it's about saving time.
andy
									
That's what I meant by spiritual laziness, though. It's like, yes, you save a little bit of time. But you—what you get in return for that is chaos, unpredictability, and stuff—potential for stuff spilling everywhere. [Someone laughs.]
john
									
Yeah. Because God Or Whatever told you to telleth your wife to spend more time doing the laundry. [Andy laughs.]
katherine
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
And packing properly.
andy
									
Uh— [Katherine laughs.] God Or Whatever doesn't speak so clearly to me.
john
									
Andy, you threw in two big "a-hah"s. That I was witness to. And the first "a-hah" is very merited, because of course, "A-hah! You would not bring a laundry basket or hamper onto an airplane."
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
That makes sense to me. Nor would I advise that you bring one onto a hot-air balloon. Because then you are not only dealing with moving the basket from one conveyance to another, but that is a terrifying basket-in-basket proposition. [The litigants laugh quietly.] The second "a-hah" was more interesting to me, though. And I would like to probe it. Katherine promised she would never bring a laundry hamper to your family's house.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
And you "a-hah"ed in a very gratified way. [Andy chuckles.] What is that all about?
andy
									
Uh, I think it—it—to me, it showed that her desire to do this is not strictly a desire to have things be easy and simple. That there's more to it than that. Because the distances are the same. To visit my family in Charlotte, North Carolina takes about two hours. It's, uh, you know, a day or two-day trip at most. It's kind of a similar trip.
john
									
Wait a minute! I heard it was four hours to Culpeper. Two hours to Charlotte.
andy
									
Yeah—two hours to Charlotte, okay.
john
									
You think I don't know these roads? You don't think I don't—I haven't had the distance between Charlotte and the Research Triangle of Chapel Hill, Durham— [The litigants laugh quietly, John stifles laughter.] —and, uh, what's the third part? Raleigh? Drummed into my head by David Rees all this time? [The litigants laugh.]
andy
									
I was banking on Hollywood elites not, uh—not understanding.
john
									
How would you feel if Katherine walked into your father's house with her—with her luggage in a laundry hamper?
andy
									
Embarrassed, frankly.
john
									
And what do you think it would say?
katherine
									
Seriously?
andy
									
Yes.
john
									
Oop. Maybe I'll stay out of this.
andy
									
What would I say? I think I would just give my dad a look and roll my eyes like, "Oh my god. Can you believe this?"
john
									
Mm-hm. And how would that make you feel, Katherine?
katherine
									
I mean, I don't care what they think. [Andy laughs quietly.]
john
									
Mm-hm. [Katherine laughs.] How do you feel when you're walking into the hotel you're staying in in Culpeper? The Culpeper Arms, or whatever. [The litigants laugh.] And Katherine pulls out—[stifles laughter]—Katherine, we might as well— [She laughs.] We might as well buzzmarket them, too. Where do you stay in Culpeper?
katherine
									
I really like this particular hotel. It's a Holiday Inn Express.
john
									
Sure.
katherine
									
We stay in the same one every single time.
john
									
Can't go wrong with an HIX.
katherine
									
It's nice! They have a pool.
john
									
Right. I—believe me, I've been there. [Katherine laughs.]
andy
									
They have the pancake machine.
john
									
You can definitely go wrong with the HIX. I have no— [Katherine laughs, John stifles laughter.] —I have no particular loyalty to Holiday Inn. I just liked thinking of it as HIX. [The litigants chuckle.] How do you feel when—when Katherine walks into the—what passes for a lobby at the Holiday Inn Express to check in to your room, carrying a laundry basket full of clothes?
andy
									
Yeah, still, uh—not as embarrassed, but slightly embarrassed.
katherine
									
I have a hard time believing you're actually embarrassed.
crosstalk
									
Andy: Why? John: Why?!
john
									
He's under fake oath, Katherine! Did you not appreciate that your husband might be embarrassed by you walking around with a laundry basket full of clothes in public places?
katherine
									
[Laughs.] I—I absolutely do not care if he is embarrassed—
john
									
Mm-hm.
katherine
									
—but I don't believe that he is embarrassed, because you should see his car!
john
									
Wait. Here. God or— [The litigants laugh.] Okay. Tell me—tell me about his—
andy
									
Objection!
john
									
Tell me about his car.
katherine
									
He rolls around town in a car—it's an old, beat-up Volvo—
john
									
Wait a minute.
katherine
									
And I almost—I almost—
john
									
Wait a minute. I love him already. Let's go. [Katherine laughs.]
jesse
									
Yeah. This is getting good!
john
									
I like this! What is it, a Two—
katherine
									
There's nothi—
john
									
A 240? Tell me it's a 240.
andy
									
No, I—I had a 240 until about 1997. [John exhales sharply.] I know.
katherine
									
He trashed the interior. It's just full of trash. Literally. Also—
andy
									
At one—[laughs]—
katherine
									
—he lets it break!
andy
									
At one point a, uh, 20-quart container of chicken broth spilled in there— [John cracks up.] —in July.
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] That's a lot of quarts!
andy
									
It's in—it was nuts, yes. And it was—I was too busy with work stuff to deal with it, and so the—it just soaked into the carpet. And, uh, I took it to the detail place. They were like, "No problem." [Katherine laughs, Andy stifles laughter.] "We use—we'll use, uh, enzymes."
john
									
Yeah.
andy
									
The enzymes did nothing.
john
									
What they call the classic anti-broth.
andy
									
Yes. [The litigants laugh.]
john
									
Didn't do anything, huh?
andy
									
No. And so for a couple years after that—
jesse
									
[Strained] "Have you the anti-broth?!" [Someone laughs quietly.]
andy
									
For a couple of years after that, it smelled like a corpse. [Jesse laughs quietly.]
john
									
...Yeah!
andy
									
[Stifling laughter] I'm digging my own grave here, but...
jesse
									
I like that you were too busy with work things—
andy
									
[Chuckling] Uh-huh.
jesse
									
Which basically—I think just means other 20-quart containers. [Katherine laughs.]
andy
									
Indeed it does, yes!
jesse
									
[Laughing] Of chicken broth.
john
									
Yeah, but this is your—this is your work vehicle! Isn't it, Andy? Allow me to defend you. I mean—
andy
									
Uh, no, not always. It just was that particular weekend.
john
									
Oh, okay. So you—you were driving your kids around in a... chicken corpse car?
andy
									
Yeah, except they—everybody refused to get in it for a couple years.
john
									
I don't even think I could— [Jesse laughs.] As much as I love a Volvo 240, either sedan or wagon—I prefer the wagon diesel if possible—I don't even think I would get into a—a chicken corpse version of that car.
andy
									
You get used to it.
john
									
I don't wanna get used to that. [The litigants laugh.]
andy
									
Perhaps this experience is why I'm worried about, uh, open-topped containers spilling. [Beat.]
john
									
You understand the difference between— [Someone laughs quietly.] —say, a basket of clean laundry and a gallon of scallops, don't you? [Jesse and the litigants laugh.]
andy
									
Theoretically, sure.
john
									
An open gallon of scallops (rhymes with "gallops")—excuse me, Joel, scallops (rhymes with "dollops"). [Katherine chuckles.]
jesse
									
I have to say, Katherine. As a person who's always been very uncomfortable with the prospect of having a—a bellhop carry his bags—not 'cause I think they're gonna steal them or break them, just I just feel weird walking next to them while they carry my stuff.
katherine
									
Mm-hm.
jesse
									
I honestly can't imagine a more thrilling power move— [Katherine laughs.] —[laughing] than tipping a bellhop to carry your basket of laundry to your room. Like, "Thank you so much. Here's $5. Thanks for carrying my spilling basket." [Katherine laughs.]
andy
									
There are no bellhops at the HIX. [Jesse laughs.]
katherine
									
I have one more, um, reason why I like to do this method.
john
									
Please!
katherine
									
So, it's way better, in my opinion, to come home with extra, folded clean laundry after a trip, and put it away in the drawers, than to come home to a giant pile of unfolded laundry sitting on the bed.
john
									
Mm-hm.
jesse
									
Katherine, what are you doing with the dirty laundry?
katherine
									
Uh, put it in, like, a trash bag. Until— [Jesse and Katherine laugh.] —until we get home.
jesse
									
Yeah?
john
									
Let me quickly understand. Let me make sure that I understand the system, so that I can rule fairly.
katherine
									
Okay.
john
									
The system is: You're gonna see your dad. You get your laundry hamper. Take everything out of the dryer, put it in there. Then think, "What—do we need bathing suits for the pool at the HIX?" Throw them in there as well. Maybe a couple other must-have items, like toe shoes for church or whatever. [Someone laughs quietly.] Walk that from your house—are you going up or down stairs?
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
Alright. There's some—
katherine
									
Down.
john
									
There's some chance of spillage there. Like, are you topped up in that laundry basket? Like, is it a mound situation?
katherine
									
It's never overflowing. No. No.
john
									
No. Alright. Flat-top laundry basket. Walk it down carefully. Kick open the door. Put it into the back of the CRV. Start driving to Culpeper. An hour later, realize you forgot your husband and sons. [The litigants chuckle quietly.] Go back, get them. Check in to the hotel. Once you're in the hotel, you put it down. You unpack. Everything in the laundry basket goes into the drawers?
katherine
									
No, you dump it on the—[laughing] you dump it on the bed!
john
									
Yes.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
This is what I need to hear! All the details.
katherine
									
You dump the laundry on the bed.
john
									
Yeah. Fold it.
katherine
									
And then fold it.
john
									
Mm-hm.
katherine
									
When I have nothing else to do.
john
									
Right. Well, except see—
katherine
									
'Cause I'm stuck in a hotel room.
john
									
—see your father. You're not allowed to go over for a while?
katherine
									
[Laughs.] I mean, you're always spending some time in the hotel.
andy
									
Yeah, it is a couple hours in the morning.
jesse
									
John, you know what you do in a hotel when there's—when you're on a trip! It's Shark Week, and you don't have cable at home—
katherine
									
Exactly.
jesse
									
—so you just watch shark things the whole time.
andy
									
Teen Titans Go!, in our case.
john
									
That's true, just watch—I mean, here's what—here's what I picture. Tell me where I'm wrong, Katherine. 'Cause I've been to hotels with little kids before. You get to the hotel. The kids scream and scream about going to the pool as quickly as possible.
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
Andy takes them down—
andy
									
Yes!
john
									
For the first time in 17 weeks, you have 15 minutes to yourself. To watch Shark Week, and— [Katherine laughs.] —and quietly fold clothes. And it's—it's one of the most meditative and wonderful moments you can have.
katherine
									
That's... pretty close, yes.
john
									
Yeah.
katherine
									
Yeah! It's—
john
									
I don't mean to tell you your feelings the way you tell Andy his feelings, but that's what I'm picturing. Oh, yeah! Yeah, I tagged you for telling him that he shouldn't be embarrassed for— [Katherine laughs.] —for the laundry hamper. You're gonna be hearing about that in the verdict for sure. I heard that.
katherine
									
Oh boy. I don't understand why he would be embarrassed.
john
									
I know. That's a different—but you'll understand when we get to the verdict.
andy or jesse
									
Yeah! That's clear!
john
									
[Stifling laughter] Yeah. [Katherine cracks up.]
andy or jesse
									
That's part of it! [The litigants laugh.]
jesse
									
Katherine, what do you watch in the hotel room?
katherine
									
Usually the kids are in charge of that. Um, so it—but it—but they—you know, it's always Spongebob or Teen Titans Go! Yeah.
john
									
Yeah.
jesse
									
Yeah, you could do a lot worse.
katherine
									
Yeah!
jesse
									
You could do a lot worse in a hotel room than Spongebob and Teen Titans Go!
john
									
And then—just so that I understand—you fold the clothes, you put them away.
katherine
									
In the drawers. Mm-hm.
john
									
In the drawers. Right. And then you use them over the visit. You're putting your—the things that are dirty now into, like, a garbage bag.
katherine
									
Yes. Or you know, like the laundry bag that they give you at the hotel.
john
									
Right. The hamper, meanwhile, is just not being used at all at this point?
katherine
									
Well, you put your dirty clothes in the hamper.
john
									
In the hamper. Right.
katherine
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
Then at the end of the trip, you put those into the garbage bag—
katherine
									
Yes.
john
									
—and then you put the remaining clean clothes into the hamper, garbage bag goes on top of that. Put it into the CRV, go home. Phew! Good visit with dad. And then you put the dirty stuff into the laundry, and the folded stuff gets put away.
katherine
									
Yeah!
john
									
[Exhales thoughtfully.] Gotta say, Andy, I love it. Gotta say I love it.
jesse
									
Now, Andy, your system is... You take the 20-quart jug— [The litigants crack up, Jesse stifles laughter.] —of chicken broth.
andy
									
Mm-hm! Extra thick and rich.
john
									
Make sure the top is loose.
katherine
									
Yes.
jesse
									
You go—[laughs]—you go to the detail place, ask: [Rasping] "Have you the antidote?" [Katherine cracks up.]
andy
									
Well, you're skipping a step. Which is that you put it in the back of your car, and you wedge it in with some things you think will probably hold it.
john
									
Right.
andy
									
And then... when you have to brake very rapidly, you suddenly realize that it—it cannot, because you hear a very loud "glug, glug" sound.
john
									
And then you have trauma that you experience for the rest of your life. [Katherine laughs.] Around any open container, which I understand!
andy
									
Yeah. I have flashbacks sometimes.
john
									
Andy, Katherine has already said that she's not going to embarrass you in front of your father by using her routine at your house. You dad's house, I mean.
andy
									
[Laughs.] Uh-huh.
john
									
What would you have me order besides that, if I were to find in your favor?
andy
									
Uh, that she is never again to suggest bringing an open container of unfolded laundry on a trip, rather than packing a bag like any sensible person would do.
john
									
Katherine, what would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?
katherine
									
That next time I suggest doing my method, I don't get any pushback! That he just keeps his mouth shut, [laughing] and lets me do things my way!
john
									
What are you afraid, finally, Andy, is going to happen if I were to rule in Katherine's favor? That your sons will take this as a habit?
andy
									
[Laughs quietly.] No! No, I'm not afraid of that.
john
									
That—that you will lose your standing? That everyone will know... that the guy who runs Geer Road Garden— [The litigants laugh.] —is married to the laundry hamper packing lady?
andy
									
Hmm.
john
									
That your—that you—
andy
									
Yeah, I—
john
									
That God Or Whatever— [Andy laughs.] —will smite your house?
andy
									
I think the—
john
									
For the sin of spiritual indolence?
andy
									
The—the fear of embarrassment and the idea of spiritual indolence is less annoying to me than just the inconvenience of happing this open-top container rather than a handy suitcase that's easy to manage.
john
									
I see. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to, uh, make my decision. I am going to go down the street to the laundromat and smell it for a while. And, uh, ruminate. And then I will be back in a moment, uh, with my verdict.
sound effect
									
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape, footsteps.]
jesse
									
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
sound effect
									
[Door shuts.]
jesse
									
Katherine, this is an extraordinary system you've developed. [One or both litigants laugh.] How are you feeling about your chances in the case
katherine
									
I'm—I'm hopeful! I really am. I think it's a good system. It's a lifehack. [Jesse laughs quietly.] Anybody is welcome to use it.
jesse
									
[Stifling laughter] Oh, you're open-sourcing it, huh?
katherine
									
Yeah!
jesse
									
Creative Commons License. [Laughs.] Andrew, how come you're not folding the laundry?
andy
									
I do fold my own laundry. I'm not allowed to fold her laundry, because I don't do it the correct way.
jesse
									
Who folds the kids' laundry?
andy
									
We both do.
jesse
									
That's good. My wife folds the kids' laundry, so... God bless her forever. How are you feeling about your chances, Andrew?
andy
									
I feel like I presented my case well. I—I think that, you know... I have logic and common sense on my side.
jesse
									
Plus that corpse smell. [The litigants and Jesse laugh.] We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second.
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
promo
									
This dynamic ad has not been transcribed, as it changes weekly.
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
sound effect
									
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape, footsteps.]
jesse
									
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.
sound effect
									
[Door shuts.]
john
									
So first of all, Andy, I'm gonna say this. I think—I think you need to get your theology correct. I do not live in a world where there is a God Or Whatever that casts favor or displeasure, whom I must please in some way in order to be spiritually un-lazy. I don't wear toe shoes to church; I don't go to church. I am a—an agnostic. In the sense of "I truly don't know." And not knowing means not... really... caring. You say that there isn't a moral component to this, but I think that you're misstating your position. Or... I don't understand it. Let me put it that way. Because your practical arguments are all sound, and we all agree you would not take a hamper on an airplane, or a hot-air balloon. Or through a train station. Right? Or any place where you're getting in and out of taxis and moving around a lot. Right? Think we all agree that. And there are some practical pitfalls to Katherine's procedure here. There is the possibility of spillage. There is that one staircase. You don't know what's gonna happen on a staircase. And you're absolutely right that there's nothing particularly un-practical about a suitcase! Particularly if it's on wheels! It's—it's eminently practical.
john
									
But what truly seems to bother you, I think, is the embarrassment you feel when you contemplate seeing your father see your wife standing there with a basket of unfolded clean laundry, saying, "This is my wardrobe." What really seems to bother you is the reality of going into the Holiday Inn Express with your wife carrying a hamper of laundry. Because you feel being seen, and you feel embarrassment, and you feel shame. Right? You say that this is not a moral issue, but I would ask you to interrogate that a little bit in yourself. Because shame and embarrassment have a—a kind of code. They're kind of encoded with, "Someone is watching. Even if I can't see them. Someone is judging, even if they're not here." You know what I mean?
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
I mean, my morality is "Don't hurt other people." Right? But there is a—there is a different kind of... traditionally patriarchal morality that comes through various religions, which is, "Here is the right way to live. And if you don't do it... I shall smiteth you." That's a painful way to live, in my opinion. Because the truth of the matter is that at the Holiday Inn Express, no one cares about you. If they see you, they don't care what you look like. [Stifles laughter.] They don't care how you pack! You don't need to impress them! There is no judgment in the Holiday Inn Express. And it should remind you that truthfully, in this world, if you're not hurting another person, there really should be no judgment at all. And the fact is you're in this Holiday Inn Express, right? And you have two relatively young kids, who—you know, toddlers are hard. But what are they, nine and ten? Eight and ten, did you say?
andy
									
Eight and ten, yeah.
john
									
Hoo! You know, you heard what Katherine said. They're—they rule the roost! She doesn't get to watch any TV in the hotel room. It's all Teen Titans Go! And the other one. And you know what? That's wonderful. Because, you know, when our kids were that age and we would go to a hotel, they also ruled the TV. And that's how I learned about Phineas and Ferb, and Wonder Pets! And got to see some of the best—the best culture that I've ever seen! Teen Titans Go! is great. But you can appreciate why—[stifles laughter]—as both of you being parents to young kids, the chance for adventure is low. It's minimized when you're un—you're in the thrall of two young kids on the one side, and parental obligation of a visit on the other. Like, on a visit to Culpeper to see your dad? The most amount of adventure you're gonna have is, [stifling laughter] "Did I bring underwear?" [Katherine laughs.] "Or not? What happens if I didn't?" [The litigants laugh, John stifles laughter.] "I might have to go to the mall!" [Katherine chuckles.]
john
									
So there is that element, right? There is that element. That I love from the very beginning. That I actually think is undermined by the fact that you're even picking bathing suits. Because imagine if you showed up and there were no bathing suits. What—what lesson would your children learn then? They would have an incredible story to tell, once they become short story writers later. [Katherine laughs.]
andy
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
I love—I love the wildcard aspect of this plan. And I do think that it has actual practical applications. Because when you come home, and you got a—a garbage—or you know, a laundry bag full of dirty laundry and a hamper full of clean laundry, that seems very tidy to me. And I'm someone who appreciates tidiness. But Katherine, now I must turn to you! It is true that Andy feels embarrassment. The fact that he spilled 20 quarts of chicken broth in his car— [Katherine laughs.] —does not invalidate the fact that he can be embarrassed in other situations of... less-than-tidiness, shall we say. You can be surprised that he feels embarrassed. But you can't say to Andy, "You don't have the right to feel that way." Because here's the thing. In the Holiday Inn Express, no one is thinking about you. No one cares. And why should you care what other people think? But in your marriage, you are thinking of each other, and you should care about what the other person thinks, and feels. If he is embarrassed, then you have to acknowledge that that is causing him discomfort in some way. Not just say, "You don't have the right to, because your car is a piece of junk. Full of broth." [Katherine chuckles.] "You drive around in a broth car, dude. You don't have the right to be embarrassed." That's no good.
john
									
All of this said, the request from Andy is this: You never again suggest packing in the hamper. And I'm gonna rule in his favor. The reason being, I don't think you should suggest it. Just do it. [Katherine and Jesse laugh.] I—I think—I think that there is an element of "Live and let live" within this arrangement. Where when you go to visit your father in Culpeper, you can go ahead and pack the hamper your way. Obviously you've already said you won't visit his dad in Charlotte and do this, and I mean, who knows? Maybe Andy would be disowned if he saw—if his dad saw you with this laundry basket. [Katherine laughs.] Be aware that it embarrasses Andy. But within this circumstance of visiting your dad, that's your family visit. Do it your way. With regard to the beach, I would advise you not to try to expand this system yet. [Katherine laughs, John stifles laughter.] Until—until and unless, and it may never happen—Andy's embarrassment level changes! It might not! You know? Andy—Andy has his own thing to reckon with. With the idea of an uncovered bucket of stuff in a car. He's gotta work on that. [Katherine chuckles.]
john
									
I would also say that you should make sure that your kids understand—and Andy, you should pack a bag nicely, and Katherine, you should explain to your kids what your system is. So that, much like people who are of two different faiths, the kids can decide as they grow older how they want to be.
andy
									
They've already taken sides.
john
									
Oh! I didn't know that.
andy
									
Yes!
john
									
Have they both chosen the same side?
andy
									
No! Interestingly, the messier of our two children—the one that we can never get to help with family cleanups—uh, he sided with me, that a suitcase is more sensible. And the more, uh, tidy and, uh, rule-following child has sided with Katherine.
john
									
Yeah. Honestly, I—here I am talking about, like, "You should get over your shame about being judged by strangers," and I—and you know, look. We all have that! I—I wouldn't walk into, uh—I wouldn't walk into the Chateau Marmont in Los Angeles with a—well, maybe I would, actually. That would be a cool—
jesse
									
That would be amazing!
john
									
[Stifling laughter] That would be so cool.
jesse
									
Just think what Mary-Kate and Ashley would think.
john
									
That would be so cool if I walked into the Chateau with a big—a big hamper of laundry and said, "Take care of this, won't you?" and they would say, "Of course!"
jesse
									
David Spade's head on a swivel, "What?!" [John cracks up, Andy chuckles.] "Why didn't I think of that?!" [Katherine chuckles.]
john
									
But yeah. I would be wary of walking into a nice hotel with a hamper full of dirty—uh, or unfolded laundry, let's say. There are social—there are circumstances in which that would be... unusual. And maybe a little uncomfortable. I would say the Holiday Inn Express is not one of those circumstances. Let it all hang out at the HIX. But yeah, that's interesting! I think that that's an—that's—if anything, this dispute has helped you gain some insight, or points of interrogation, into how your sons think! And see the world. And obviously, [chuckles] which parent they like better! [The litigants laugh.] So have fun with that! I think you should feel good that I'm ruling in your favor, because I really am—Katherine—asking you to hold the line, for now, to this one trip to your dad. I love the system. I love the randomness. I love the adventure. Maybe it'll make more sense to Andy over time, or maybe it won't. And if it doesn't, you just have to respect that. This is the sound of a gavel.
music
									
Brief clip of Pitbull's "Hotel Room Service" from the album Pitbull Starring in Rebelution. We at the hotel, motel, Holiday Inn! [Music stops.]
john
									
Judge John Hodgman rules; that is all.
sound effect
									
[As Jesse speaks below: Door opens, chairs scrape, footsteps.]
jesse
									
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
sound effect
									
[Door shuts.]
jesse
									
Katherine, how do you feel about your "defeat" that... steals victory from the jaws of defeat—? I don't know exactly how to characterize it. [Katherine laughs.] How are you feeling?
katherine
									
I feel—I feel great! I think it's fair. And as long as I can just keep doing that when we go see my dad, I'll be happy.
jesse
									
How do you feel, Andy?
andy
									
Uh, I feel like it's a travesty. It's a miscarriage of justice. The judge seized on one, uh—the way I phrased my request—that she never again suggest it—and expanded that to rule in my wife's favor. [Katherine laughs quietly.]
jesse
									
Someone has... spilled injustice—
andy
									
Twenty quarts of it.
jesse
									
Twenty quarts of injustice in the interior of your life.
andy
									
It stinks to high Heaven.
jesse
									
And no one—no one has the anti-stock. [The litigants laugh.] Andy, Katherine, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
katherine
									
Thank you.
andy
									
Thank you!
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
jesse
									
Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books! In just a second, we'll offer some Swift Justice. First our thanks to Twitter user @bikesarefun for naming this week's episode, "Hampering with the Evidence."
john
									
And I just—I would like to thank all of the Twitter users who suggested, uh, case names this week. They're all a lot of fun. I loved "Hampering with the Evidence." I wanna special shout-out to the many people who suggested "Basket Case," but obviously I was gonna use Basket Case for the cult ref, so I couldn't do it. But thank you, everyone! It was really great.
jesse
									
If you wanna name a future episode, follow us on Twitter for the naming opportunities, at @JesseThorn and @hodgman. While you're there you can also hashtag your Judge John Hodgman Tweets #JJHo. I like to click on that hashtag; I'll—I'll search that hashtag every couple days, check to see what people have to say about this week's episode. Lot of fun. Join the conversation on Reddit at MaximumFun.Reddit.com, and if you wanna see the evidence for this week's episode and other episodes, go to Instagram.com/judgejohnhodgman. You know—you know what I'm gonna have Jen do, John?
john
									
No, what?
jesse
									
Go on our Instagram and post the part of Waiting for Guffman where—where the narrator goes, "Oh, I love beans."
crosstalk
									
John: "Don't get me started on beans!" Jesse: "Big, fat, hot, juicy beans!"
jesse
									
"Don't get me started on beans!" Did you know that's David Arquette and Rosanna Arquette and, uh, the other Arquettes' dad that plays that character?
john
									
That's Daddy Arquette?
jesse
									
That's Daddy Arquette.
john
									
Oh! He's really funny in it.
jesse
									
Our producer is Jennifer Marmor. Our editor is Valerie Moffat.
john
									
And hey, everyone! We're very excited. We have an episode coming up featuring one of our favorite guests, J. Kenji López-Alt. The food writer. The food scientist. The very popular YouTube... fooder. [Stifles laughter.]
jesse
									
Yeah. [Laughs.]
john
									
Who films himself making the food with his GoPro on his—on his forehead.
jesse
									
That's the technical term, John. [Laughs.]
john
									
Yeah.
jesse
									
"YouTube fooder."
john
									
He's a YouTube fooder! He's been on the show before, we—we really enjoy him. And so if you have any disputes that are specifically kitchen disputes, disputes about food, disputes about how to make certain foods, disputes about which foods are good or bad, disputes about—no disputes about how to wash the dishes. We're done with those.
jesse
									
Yeah.
john
									
Covered 'em up.
jesse
									
No dishes disputes. But that's the only thing we're taking off the table within the confines—you can have refrigerator disputes!
john
									
Yeah. Refrigerator disputes. You could have blender disputes. You could have... immersion blender disputes! Anyway, write to me at hodgman@maximumfun.org, or obviously you can submit via the form at MaximumFun.org/jjho!
jesse
									
We'll take any cases, of course. But if you have a kitchen dispute, we're looking for them particularly. MaximumFun.org/jjho, or email hodgman@maximumfun.org. Now, here's some Swift Justice! Mika says: "Tupperware. My wife calls it... Tubberware. Because it's a bunch of small tubs. Her sister calls it Tufferware, because the material is tough. They both need to call it by its proper name: Tupperware."
john
									
Uhhh... Tupperware is a brand name.
jesse
									
That's true.
john
									
It is a brand name that has become a generic name in usage. Much like Aspirin. Or Trampoline! [Stifles laughter.]
jesse
									
Mm-hm!
john
									
You know Trampoline was a registered trademark?
jesse
									
Mm-hm.
john
									
For a—a rebounding bouncer? But unless you are—Mika, you are—I mean, I dare you, Mika, to look into that cupboard, or wherever you keep your Tubberware. I dare you to send me a picture of an actual registered trademark for Tupperware on the bottom of any of those tubs. Chances are you don't have any of that stuff. You probably have some kind of common knockoff made by any number of different, um, supply brands! Sooo unless it says "Tupperware," your wife can call it Tubberware, your sister can call it Tufferware. I love both of those words. They sound fun!
jesse
									
That's it for this week. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
sound effect
									
[Three gavel bangs.]
music
									
A cheerful ukulele chord.
speaker 1
									
MaximumFun.org.
speaker 2
									
Comedy and culture.
speaker 3
									
Artist owned—
speaker 4
									
—audience supported.
About the show

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