Claude Steele on Churn, the Awkward Social Distress That Divides Us All

Episode 259

11th May 2026

The eminent social psychologist explains the effects of a situation you have definitely found yourself in.

Episode notes

I’m pretty sure you’ve been in this situation: you’re in a group setting of consequence and importance. Maybe it’s at work, maybe in school, but something is on the line. In that place are people different from you. They’re of a different race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, and you begin to worry about how you are being perceived. Are you an individual in everyone’s eyes or are they seeing you for the group you represent? Does your behavior match the stereotype that exists for people like you in the eyes of these other folks? Claude Steele, distinguished social psychologist, calls this churn in his new book, Churn: The Tension That Divides Us and How to Overcome It. He says it can have an effect on your mental health, particular in the areas of depression and anxiety. Steele explains the fascinating research and experiments that led him to explore the idea of churn and offers ideas on how to stop feeling it and establish yourself as an individual.

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In this episode...

Guests

  • Claude Steele

About the show

Join host John Moe (The Hilarious World of Depression) for honest, relatable, and, yes, sometimes funny conversations about mental health. Hear from comedians, musicians, authors, actors, and other top names in entertainment and the arts about living with depression, anxiety, and many other common disorders. Find out what they’ve done to address it, what worked, and what didn’t. Depresh Mode with John Moe also features useful insights on mental health issues with experts in the field. It’s honest talk from people who have been there and know their stuff. No shame, no stigma, and maybe a few laughs.

Like this podcast? Then you’ll love John’s book, The Hilarious World of Depression.

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